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Zone1 Black Victimhood

flacaltenn

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No, I am not redefining anything.

Systemic racism is real in America. But here you go off the rails with your wack interpretation of things.

I dont think it's LITERALLY systemic. Systemic means the WHOLE ENTIRE SYSTEM is racist. Which cannot be true without making Congress, Walmart, Dominoes Pizza, and the Salvation Army racist. But I KNOW that there are racist orgs and racist people of ALL colors.

According to those like you, a victim is one who has given up and lays around expecting to be handed something without working for it. Blacks have never done that. But whites have. And today it is right wing whites who have created victimhood based on them being white when everything shows that whites are not being denied anything.

THere you are putting words in my mouth AGAIN that I've NEVER said. Find them. Show them to me. They dont exist. You're avoiding the VERY SIMPLE QUESTION I asked. How can blacks NOT be victims if America has been a racist country for 200+ years and reparations and Affirmative Action are REQUIRED to mend the hostility and harm?

HOW CAN YOU BE HARMED THAT BADLY -- CLAIM ENOUGH VICTIMHOOD to ask for compensatory damages and post this thread that DENIES that blacks claim victimhood?

The rest of your reply is similarly very evasive to the question... Especially the brush-back that I CANT comment on black victimhood when YOU posted a public thread about it?
 

MizMolly

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No, I am not redefining anything.

Systemic racism is real in America. But here you go off the rails with your wack interpretation of things.

According to those like you, a victim is one who has given up and lays around expecting to be handed something without working for it. Blacks have never done that. But whites have. And today it is right wing whites who have created victimhood based on them being white when everything shows that whites are not being denied anything.

Whites don't get to define our experience to us. And any black person who repeats right wing rhetoric that ignores the true experience of blacks in this country up to this very minute are the ones with the victim mentality. They have accepted white authority over them to the point of adopting anti black beliefs and speak anti black rhetoric.

Blacks, hispanics, native americans, most asians and pacific islanders are not in the position they are in because they all consistently made bad choices. The bad choice is called white racism and that choice is not made by people of color.
What are you being denied?
 
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IM2

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I dont think it's LITERALLY systemic. Systemic means the WHOLE ENTIRE SYSTEM is racist. Which cannot be true without making Congress, Walmart, Dominoes Pizza, and the Salvation Army racist. But I KNOW that there are racist orgs and racist people of ALL colors.



THere you are putting words in my mouth AGAIN that I've NEVER said. Find them. Show them to me. They dont exist. You're avoiding the VERY SIMPLE QUESTION I asked. How can blacks NOT be victims if America has been a racist country for 200+ years and reparations and Affirmative Action are REQUIRED to mend the hostility and harm?

HOW CAN YOU BE HARMED THAT BADLY -- CLAIM ENOUGH VICTIMHOOD to ask for compensatory damages and post this thread that DENIES that blacks claim victimhood?

The rest of your reply is similarly very evasive to the question... Especially the brush-back that I CANT comment on black victimhood when YOU posted a public thread about it?
It is literally systemic. Yes, the entire system is racist.
 
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IM2

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Reparations for something he never experienced, paid for by people who never did anything to him.
Wrong. I have shown the losses blacks have taken since 2000 because of racism. You and others dishonestly argue about slavery even as you practice racism now.
 
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IM2

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What's you basis of disagreement flacaltenn?ave you lived as a black person in this system? Or is it just "I'm white and I say so?"
 

flacaltenn

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It is literally systemic. Yes, the entire system is racist.

So -- NEVER in our 4 year history of talking to each other here in the Race forum have you directly ANSWERED a question from me. NEVER. And this is another example.

Your TOPIC REMAINS logically and honestly INCONSISTENT that if there IS systemic racism causing CONSTANT measurable oppression and suppression of black achievement then the ONLY CONCLUSION IS -- the VICTIMS of this dastardly disease which supposedly affects every portion of American life ARE SOULY black people. Ergo -- black people ARE THE VICTIMS and your thread topic is wrong.

OTHERWISE -- and I'll say again should you consider introducing these topics in the future -- IF there NO victims of that systemic racism -- then there is NO NEED for reparations or programs like Affirmative Action, govt support of HBColleges, or preferences on Pell grants, etc
 
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flacaltenn

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What are you being denied?

Conveniently a victim when ASKING for reparations, then declares there's no such thing as "black victimhood". Rather than enlightening folks as to that can be logical or sane, he just continues to argue the faulty premise of this thread.
 

flacaltenn

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Wrong. I have shown the losses blacks have taken since 2000 because of racism. You and others dishonestly argue about slavery even as you practice racism now.

Certainly all the PROGRESS made in anti-discrimination, but MORE IMPORTANTLY -- changing hearts and minds over the past 60 years has enabled probably a small MAJORITY of blacks to ESCAPE victimhood. As they are now advancing economically and gaining access to power and knowledge.

But when you take "the losses blacks have taken SINCE 2000" because of MODERN "systemic racism" TO COURT and ASK for compensation -- you need to show that the injured party IS A VICTIM of this shadowy "systemic racism". Thus this thread premise is logically inconsistent. And CLAIMING (in general) that there is "no black victimhood" would get the case LAUGHED out of court.

And the WEIRD THING is -- you choose "since 2000" -- which bolstered another argument of mine that most of your "systemic racism" is POLITICAL paranoia rather than a "white right winger" racism problem.
 
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IM2

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Certainly all the PROGRESS made in anti-discrimination, but MORE IMPORTANTLY -- changing hearts and minds over the past 60 years has enabled probably a small MAJORITY of blacks to ESCAPE victimhood. As they are now advancing economically and gaining access to power and knowledge.

But when you take "the losses blacks have taken SINCE 2000" because of MODERN "systemic racism" TO COURT and ASK for compensation -- you need to show that the injured party IS A VICTIM of this shadowy "systemic racism". Thus this thread premise is logically inconsistent. And CLAIMING (in general) that there is "no black victimhood" would get the case LAUGHED out of court.

And the WEIRD THING is -- you choose "since 2000" -- which bolstered another argument of mine that most of your "systemic racism" is POLITICAL paranoia rather than a "white right winger" racism problem.
Flacaltenn, that.there is no such thing as black victimhood. I'm black and I think I would know.

Flacaltenn, I know how things work, I don't need your explanation. You need to just recognize that your opinion is based on your experience as a white man. You have not faced systemic racism and what you think it is, isn't it. This system is based on laws and policies. Those laws and policies control the structure and function of our institutions.

I think Citigroup could take the case to court as they did the study. So could DeEMOS, The Kellogg Foundation, National Urban League, Pew Research, The Economic Policy Institute, McKinley and Company and a boatload of other organizations and experts. Your opinion is not based on evidence. It is based on feelings. There is no black victimhood in the manner the right has portrayed and nobody but racists would laugh if I said.

You suffer from white fragility flacaltenn. You exhibit every behavior described. You have not studied the issues pertaining to racism and its effects. I have and I am not going to argue with you about this based only on your unlearned or should I say, misinformed /uninformed opinion.
 

flacaltenn

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You have not faced systemic racism and what you think it is, isn't it. This system is based on laws and policies. Those laws and policies control the structure and function of our institutions.

Are you a VICTIM of this? YES or NO? Are there MORE black people who have valid claims of being victimized by "systemic racism"? YES or NO?

I'm assuming by HOW SYSTEMIC it is - you've FACED it every time you leave the house.
 

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Wrong. I have shown the losses blacks have taken since 2000 because of racism. You and others dishonestly argue about slavery even as you practice racism now.
You never have explained how I practice racism. You ever gonna get around to it, or am I just supposed to take your word for it?
 
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IM2

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Are you a VICTIM of this? YES or NO? Are there MORE black people who have valid claims of being victimized by "systemic racism"? YES or NO?

I'm assuming by HOW SYSTEMIC it is - you've FACED it every time you leave the house.
Turn black and find out. But before you do that study what it is instead of posting your uninformed opinion of it.
 
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IM2

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You never have explained how I practice racism. You ever gonna get around to it, or am I just supposed to take your word for it?
Go back and read your posts. You practice modern racism.
 
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Definition of Systemic Racism in Sociology​


"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power. Systemic here means that the core racist realities are manifested in each of society’s major parts [...] each major part of U.S. society—the economy, politics, education, religion, the family—reflects the fundamental reality of systemic racism."

Get it flacaltenn? We aren't talking about your simplistic thinking about race and racism that still looks at racism as what was practiced during JimCrow. Such racism cannot be practiced so a more subtle form has been created, you know it exists because you have seen it practiced and probably have practiced it yourself.

The Impoverishment of People of Color and Enrichment of White People​

Feagin explains that the undeserved impoverishment of people of color (POC), which is the basis of the undeserved enrichment of White people, is one of the core aspects of systemic racism. In the U.S. this includes the role that the enslavement of Black people played in creating an unjust wealth for White people, their businesses, and their families. It also includes the way White people exploited labor throughout the European colonies prior to the founding of the United States. These historical practices created a social system that had racist economic inequality built into its foundation and was followed through the years in numerous ways, like the practice of "redlining" that prevented POC from buying homes that would allow their family wealth to grow while protecting and stewarding the family wealth of White people. Undeserved impoverishment also results from POC being forced into unfavorable mortgage rates, being channeled by unequal opportunities for education into low-wage jobs, and being paid less than White people for doing the same jobs.

There is no more telling proof of the undeserved impoverishment of POC and the undeserved enrichment of White people than the massive difference in the average wealth of White versus Black and Latino families.

Vested Group Interests Among White People​

Within a racist society, White people enjoy many privileges denied to POC. Among these is the way that vested group interests among powerful White people and “ordinary Whites” allow White people to benefit from their racial identity without even identifying it as such. This manifests in support among White people for White political candidates, and for laws and political and economic policies that work to reproduce a social system that is racist and has racist outcomes. For example, White people as a majority have historically opposed or eliminated diversity-increasing programs within education and jobs, and ethnic studies courses that better represent the racial history and reality of the U.S. In cases like these, White people in power and ordinary White people have suggested that programs like these are "hostile" or examples of "reverse racism." In fact, the way White people wield political power in the protection of their interests and at the expense of others, without ever claiming to do so, maintains and reproduces a racist society.

Alienating Racist Relations Between White People and POC
In the U.S., White people hold most positions of power. A look at the membership of Congress, the leadership of colleges and universities, and the top management of corporations makes this clear. In this context, in which White people hold political, economic, cultural, and social power, the racist views and assumptions that course through U.S. society shape the way those in power interact with POC. This leads to a serious and well-documented problem of routine discrimination in all areas of life, and the frequent dehumanization and marginalization of POC, including hate crimes, which serves to alienate them from society and hurt their overall life chances.

The Costs and Burdens of Racism Are Borne by POC​

The costs and burdens of racism are disproportionately borne by people of color and by Black people especially. Having to bear these unjust costs and burdens is a core aspect of systemic racism. These include shorter life spans, limited income and wealth potential, impacted family structure as a result of mass incarceration of Black and Latino people, limited access to educational resources and political participation, state-sanctioned killing by police, and the psychological, emotional, and community tolls of living with less, and being seen as “less than." POC are also expected by White people to bear the burden of explaining, proving, and fixing racism, though it is, in fact, White people who are primarily responsible for perpetrating and perpetuating it.


 

PeanutGallery

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No, I don't. And since you can't provide any examples, it looks like your claim is unfounded.

It's amazing. IM2 said in previous posts that he was around 60 years old and a retired executive. If systemic racism is so rampant and he experienced that so often in life, how in the world did he ever become an executive? I mean, shouldn't the "white man" kept him out of that kind of a high-level position?

Old black man

Executive Director
 
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BlackSand

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You guys spent far too much time listening to Rush Limbaugh.

There is no such thing as black victimhood. At least in the way rightists see it.

If blacks had a victim mentality, we would still be slaves, or still be accepting Apartheid. Now don't try rebuttals by posting links to sellouts and [ Mod Edited: Do not use pet slur names, referring to people you do not agree with on this Race forum, even if you are black] who repeat what you believe. Because THOSE are the blacks with a victim mentality.

Let us understand what this so-called victim mentality is. The victim is not the person who says whites continue to practice racism, that it’s wrong, and we need to stop it. The victim is not the black person who fights for equality whites have denied us, which has created tremendous damage that black communities face. The victim is the one who has given up, the one who tells us not to rock the boat, ignore racism, work harder, and all will be well. The victim is the person who makes up things that don’t happen, such as anti-white discrimination, or who proclaims that anti-racism means you are anti-white. The victim is the person who has all the preferences and advantages of a society but complains that somehow they are being forgotten and left out.

The victim is the type who believes that somehow another group's fight for equality means their group loses rights. The victim is the person who thinks they are being discriminated against because the university is 70 percent white instead of 75 percent because it accepts people of color. The victim is the person who cries about “merit” without considering that whites, who are the majority of the population, end up with the applicants with most of the high SAT scores mainly because more of them are taking the test, not because they are inherently more intelligent. A victim whines about how whites are getting passed over based only on those test scores when the university’s stated admissions policy says that race is but one factor a university considers.

The victim is the white employee complaining that they have gotten passed over for a “quota” that does not exist unless the company is in violation of federal law and still practices racism in hiring and promotion. How many years did Limbaugh whine every day about how terrible things are for whites, how everyone is against whites, and how the world hates whites? That’s whining. That’s playing the victim.

There is no black victimhood. Not on the so called left. The blacks with the victim mentality are the ones who accept white racism and denigrates blacks who fight it. They are the ones who have said, "Woe is me, the white man is too powerful. We can never get equality so we'll just accomodate and maybe one day we will earn their respect."
.

The victim is someone who has been wronged, and deserves consideration as being wronged.
If you are not a victim, have not been wronged, and do not deserve consideration for being wronged ... Then there is nothing to discuss.

.
 

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