Zone1 Black MAGAs are a clear and present danger

[IM2]

“Black people must think a certain way on the basis of their ethnicity or skin color” is pure, unabashed fundamental racism, by definition.

That's not the definition of racism so don't try creating a new one.. Blacks who support racist ideologies meant to reduce our freedoms are fools. Saying that is not racist.

 

[IM2]

You look forward to more genetic research so you can misappropriate it and use it to justify your long term goal of racial eugenics. Does that sound familiar? It should.

Let’s look at your claim of genes and criminal behavior. There is some truth in and an awful lot of stated limitations.

Human behavior and human intelligence is a complex interplay of genetics, epigenetics, and environment. A person born with the potential for normal or high intelligence may never achieve it if he Is born in the middle of a famine or if his critical childhood years are in an an abusive or emotionally stunted environment (example, children raised in Chinese orphanages).

I imagine the study on genes and criminality you are thinking of is this one from 2012:

Genes influence criminal behavior, research suggests

Your genes could be a strong predictor of whether you stray into a life of crime, according to a new research paper. The study focused on whether genes are likely to cause a person to become a life-course persistent offender, which is characterized by antisocial behavior during childhood that...

www.sciencedaily.com

The author notes:

The analysis doesn't identify the specific genes that underlie the different pathways, which Barnes said would be an interesting area for further research.

"If we're showing that genes have an overwhelming influence on who gets put onto the life-course persistent pathway, then that would suggest we need to know which genes are involved and at the same time, how they're interacting with the environment so we can tailor interventions," he said.

Barnes said there is no gene for criminal behavior. He said crime is a learned behavior.

"But there are likely to be hundreds, if not thousands, of genes that will incrementally increase your likelihood of being involved in a crime even if it only ratchets that probability by 1 percent," he said. "It still is a genetic effect. And it's still important."

Your Scientific Racism takes that, strips away any other factors, and claims, with out further study, that this explains racial disparities in crime statistics in the US. That isn’t science…that is Soviet Science, where instead of looking at the best available evidence and forming a hypothesis, and then testing it, you do the opposite. You make a conclusion and then search for evidence to support it, discounting or ignoring anything that doesn’t.



Jews are not a race, and even amongst Jewish people, your article on a genetic mutation that might lead to an increase in a certain type of intelligence is limited to one subgroup of Jews, the Ashkanazi.

Scientific Racism starts out with the premise that one race is inferior (and don’t pretend there is no value judgement on your part here) and then seeks to prove it in a very unscientific way.

For example, claims about “civilization” - a rather vague term that is both unscientific, has no consistent definition, and is largely based on cultural assumptions and personal opinion. There is no way to test it scientifically.

Claims about “illegitimacy” and ”monogamy”which appear to be a rather cleaned up version of the old racist canard that black men are oversexed and under-brained brutes and black woman are promiscuous sluts. Again, you start with the “conclusion” and cherry pick the “evidence” to support it. Again, that is not scientific. You use American stats on single mothers to make that claim for an entire race. That is pretty sweeping since that ignores the vast majority of Black people in the world. You also ignores the influences of culture, affects of war, political turmoil, environmental disaster etc on normal institutions like monogamy and marriage (which is a cultural institution).

In one response you use HIV statistics as a way to “prove” this, but HIV stats mostly reflect unprotected sex and the reasons behind that are many include cultural distrust of the means and motives behind it and complications (war, poverty, etc) that prevent an effective distribution of information and preventatives such as condom use.

Hector is full of it. For example, he ignores 247 years of white criminsl behavior to make his claim abot race, crime and IQ. This criminality includes the creation of unjudt laws that made things blaks do illegal while white behaviors are not penalized. Another example, Alocohol and nicotine are both highly addictive drugs, but they are legal. Marijuana has been shown to be less dangerous than both, but is illegal. Blacks then are criminalized for having weed which has killed far fewer people than the legalized drug, alcohol. And people like Hector use things like this to justify a purely racist belief.

 

[IM2]

And Lisa is just ignorant.

So once again, the people here who support and defend black MAGAS make the case for the premise of the article. That is black MAGA extremists aid in the increase in white supremacy.

 

[IM2]

These great black MAGAs and many others like them on Youtube, etc. are probably going to be the driving factor in Trump being reelected.



Youtube will be loathe to censor them, and the typical basement dwelling "fact checker" for Facebook will be more interested in undressing them with his eyes than listening to what they say.

The left is not even talking about them so they are flying under the woke white media radar.

Trump will not be re elected and the few black youtube paid for by the click idiots aren't going to help anything.

 

[JoeB131]

Trump will not be re elected and the few black youtube paid for by the click idiots aren't going to help anything.

Are you sure.

Nobody thought he was going to be elected in 2016.
Nobody thought he was going to get as close as he was in 2020.

If the economy goes south next year, Biden will have a very hard time getting re-elected, but he's letting Powell drive us into one.

 

[Coyote]

Claiming that race realism will lead to genocide is an example of the slippery slope fallacy.

“Race Realism” is nothing more than a cleaned up version of racism, much like an earlier version using facial characteristics and head measurements to justify clams of lower intelligence and “theories” of racial inferiority.

We have multiple historical examples of where that belief has lead to genocide or wholesale loss of human rights.

Frankly, you can call it a slippery slope fallacy, but I would rather not replay history by setting up the conditions to do so.

I take exception to your claim that I am "no different than the Nazis. On many occasions I have stated that I admire Jews, respect Judaism, and love Israel. I admire Jews because they have overcome prejudice and discrimination, to the extent that most are successful and prosperous.

Ok. So the only difference is you select a different target group for your genocidal eugenics campaign.

It would be unwise to try to repeal the civil rights legislation entirely, but there is often wisdom in tradition.

What wisdom in what “tradition”.

 

[Coyote]

Don’t be ridiculous. You don’t get to an average IQ of 125 by going for your Ph.D., or getting to an average IQ of 130 by majoring in engineering. People that attain these levels are significantly more intelligent than average.

The higher your level of education is, the more likely you are to do well on an IQ test.

 

[Lisa558]

The higher your level of education is, the more likely you are to do well on an IQ test.

The higher your IQ, the more likely you are to graduate from college and major in engineering. The plain fact is that someone who scores a 102 on an IQ test as a teen will NOT successfully complete a rigorous degree program and will in fact struggle getting through even a mediocre college.

 

[Hector12]

“Race Realism” is nothing more than a cleaned up version of racism, much like an earlier version using facial characteristics and head measurements to justify clams of lower intelligence and “theories” of racial inferiority.

We have multiple historical examples of where that belief has lead to genocide or wholesale loss of human rights.

Frankly, you can call it a slippery slope fallacy, but I would rather not replay history by setting up the conditions to do so.

If race realism is scientifically invalid it should be possible to demonstrate that calmly and rationally. If it is true, which of course I believe it is, we need to live with the truth. Charles Murray put it best when he wrote in his essay "The Inequality Taboo." "specific policies based on premises that conflict with scientific truths about human beings tend not to work. Often they do harm."

In a purely visceral level I find the idea that there are dangerous truths that must be suppressed to be repulsive.

 

[IM2]

Are you sure.

Nobody thought he was going to be elected in 2016.
Nobody thought he was going to get as close as he was in 2020.

If the economy goes south next year, Biden will have a very hard time getting re-elected, but he's letting Powell drive us into one.

A record number of people voted against trump. Biden has actually done a good job. The problem with Democrats is that they don't brag on the work they've done every day. If they did, people would recognize that Biden deserves 4 more years. Hopefully people are smart enough not to vote for a return to crazy.

 

[IM2]

The higher your IQ, the more likely you are to graduate from college and major in engineering. The plain fact is that someone who scores a 102 on an IQ test as a teen will NOT successfully complete a rigorous degree program and will in fact struggle getting through even a mediocre college.

That's not necessarily true. And current IQ tests do not accurately measure all types of intelligence.

 

[Batcat]

Black MAGAs are a clear and present danger

As the American conservative movement has morphed from racist dog whistles and white-grievance politics to full-blown fascism and white nationalism, Black MAGAs have enlisted as soldiers in the war against civil rights, voting rights, liberal democracy and racial justice. Unable to achieve their unpopular and toxic policies through the ballot box, MAGA intends to bring about their goals through white nationalist minority rule. And Black MAGAs are eager to oblige.

Lacking principles, these Black white nationalists say and do anything to please Trump, Trumpism and the white supremacist base. Never speaking ill of white folks, Black MAGAs will blame the Black community for anything and everything, never stand up for Black people, never help us and always throw us under the bus. They lack self-respect and scruples. However, they do collect a paycheck, which they will enjoy until such time as they are rendered useless and their services are no longer needed.

Black MAGAs are a clear and present danger

All skinfolk ain't kinfolk: Black MAGAs have joined the fight against civil rights, voting rights and racial justice.

thegrio.com

All skinfolk ain't kinfolk.

We as blacks are taught this as children. Basically it means just don't take sides with someone only because they are black. This is what makes the right wing claims of my racism laughable. And it is why we can oppose black MAGA sellouts. And it's funny that only a certain type of white individual hails these deplorables as independent thinkers.

It appears some blacks are waking up to the fact that Democrats promise roses and diamonds but deleiver sunflowers and zirconium.

 

[Hector12]

Ok. So the only difference is you select a different target group for your genocidal eugenics campaign.

When a group is targeted out for extermination that group is usually of above average intelligence. That is most obvious with the Nazi persecution of the Jews. It is also apparent in the Turkish effort to exterminate the Armenians, and the effort by the Bolshevik government to persecute the kulaks. These were the more successful peasant farmers.

After the Civil War there were efforts to deport the Negroes to Africa. Abraham Lincoln supported those efforts. There was never an effort to exterminate the Negroes.

 

[Hector12]

What wisdom in what “tradition”.

In his song, although not in his life, Frank Sinatra captured the moral ethos of the 1950's with the words:

Love and marriage, love and marriage,
It's an institute you can't disparage.
Ask the local gentry and they will say it's elementary.

Try, try, try to separate them, it's an illusion.
Try, try, try and you only come to this conclusion:

Love and marriage, love and marriage,
Go together like a horse and carriage.
Dad was told by mother you can't have one
You can't have none.
You can't have one without the other.

-----------

"Love and Marriage" was introduced by Frank Sinatra in the 1955 television production of Thornton Wilder's Our Town, which aired on Producers' Showcase. Sinatra went on to record two versions of the song. The first was recorded for Capitol Records on August 15, 1955,[2] and became a major chart hit...

In 1956, "Love and Marriage" won the Emmy for Best Musical Contribution from the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences.
Love and Marriage - Wikipedia.

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The deep seated belief, which permeated the 1950's, that sex should be restricted to marriage led to stable marriages and well raised children.

The sexual revolution, which was promoted during the 1960's, but which really did not take hold until the 1970's, has led to explosive increases in divorce and illegitimacy. This increase in turn has led to impressive evidence that children raised to adulthood by both parents living together in matrimony tend to have many fewer problems in life than children "raised," if we can even call it that, in other situations.

I have already expressed my disappoints with the civil rights movement. Diversity is not our strength; it is the ultimate reason for the political polarization that makes it difficult for the government to solve problems that were manageable before 1964.

 

[Hector12]

The higher your level of education is, the more likely you are to do well on an IQ test.

I will turn that around: the higher your IQ is the more education you can assimilate.

 

[Hector12]

That's not necessarily true. And current IQ tests do not accurately measure all types of intelligence.

The only reason that delusion persists is because of taboos and sanctions against telling the truth about the validity of IQ tests. For over a century IQ tests have demonstrated their ability to predict academic and economic success. A child who tests well on an IQ test may fail for other reasons. A child who tests poorly will not succeed at anything requiring superior intelligence.

Current IQ tests are more valid than the first tests. The early tests included tests of general knowledge. It was assumed, for example, that an intelligent person would know who Copernicus was.

There are tests now that require no knowledge of reading, no knowledge of mathematics, and which can be explained without the use of language. A space alien could take one of those tests. I suspect the space alien would get a perfect score in record time.

 

[Coyote]

.,,.l

The higher your IQ, the more likely you are to graduate from college and major in engineering. The plain fact is that someone who scores a 102 on an IQ test as a teen will NOT successfully complete a rigorous degree program and will in fact struggle getting through even a mediocre college.

Here is one study that shows IQ increases with education, indicating it is not static.

How Much Does Education Improve Intelligence? A Meta-Analysis - PubMed

Intelligence test scores and educational duration are positively correlated. This correlation could be interpreted in two ways: Students with greater propensity for intelligence go on to complete more education, or a longer education increases intelligence. We meta-analyzed three categories of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Across 142 effect sizes from 42 data sets involving over 600,000 participants, we found consistent evidence for beneficial effects of education on cognitive abilities of approximately 1 to 5 IQ points for an additional year of education. Moderator analyses indicated that the effects persisted across the life span and were present on all broad categories of cognitive ability studied. Education appears to be the most consistent, robust, and durable method yet to be identified for raising intelligence.

Here is another article that does equate doing well in school with higher IQ, but notes that does not necessarily translate into better life outcomes (or success). It also notes the limitations of IQ and even the fact there is no standard way of defining intelligence.

Do People With High IQ Enjoy Greater Success?

High IQ people are often assumed to be more successful, but research shows that the connection between IQ and success is complicated. Learn what research has shown.

www.verywellmind.com

Limitations of IQ Tests​

It is important to remember that IQ testing has both limitations and biases. IQ tests only measure a specific range of mental abilities, but not all experts agree on a standard definition of intelligence.

Some tests may be more reliable than others, but it is also possible that IQ scores can change over time. Many factors can affect IQ test scores, including access to education, cultural factors, overall health, and nutrition.

The way that tests are constructed and scored can also affect scores. Some research also indicates that many IQ tests are biased against certain groups of people.

This article refers to a study from 1959 that was significant in size and long term followup of high IQ people, so it is old, but I am not sure if there are new studies that followed a group long term that supersede it.

It does note the following:
Still, Terman noted that most pursued more humble occupations, including police officers, sailors, typists and filing clerks. He ultimately concluded that "intelligence and achievement were far from perfectly correlated."

There are also individual and societal downsides. Some studies have found high IQ is also associated more frequent and earlier drug abuse, higher incidents of major mental illness such as depression, anxiety and bipolar disorder as well as ADHD and autism.

Link: High intelligence: A risk factor for psychological and physiological overexcitabilities

There clearly is a lot more to intelligence than what can be measured in an IQ test. It is also clear while IQ is correlated with academic success, it is also malleable through other factors such as education, nutrition and environment and isn’t always correlated with life success. Intelligence is still poorly understood and more than likely a composite of multiple, separate attributes of which only is understood and measured in a standard IQ test. High IQ also seems to be associated with higher rates of negative outcomes such as mental illness.

So given all that…why this emphasis on Race and IQ and, with people like Hector, eugenics? Have you never questioned the motivations behind this pseudo-science labeled “Race Realism”?

 

[Hector12]

And Lisa is just ignorant.

So once again, the people here who support and defend black MAGAS make the case for the premise of the article. That is black MAGA extremists aid in the increase in white supremacy.

Just because Lisa disagrees with you does not mean that she is ignorant. What doesn't she know that if she learned would cause her to agree with you?

 

[Lisa558]

The only reason that delusion persists is because of taboos and sanctions against telling the truth about the validity of IQ tests. For over a century IQ tests have demonstrated their ability to predict academic and economic success. A child who tests well on an IQ test may fail for other reasons. A child who tests poorly will not succeed at anything requiring superior intelligence.

Current IQ tests are more valid than the first tests. The early tests included tests of general knowledge. It was assumed, for example, that an intelligent person would know who Copernicus was.

There are tests now that require no knowledge of reading, no knowledge of mathematics, and which can be explained without the use of language. A space alien could take one of those tests. I suspect the space alien would get a perfect score in record time.

My point exactly. A child with an average IQ will not succeed in a rigorous program such as engineering or physics. There’s a reason people in these fields have significantly superior IQs. It takes brains to complete those degrees.

Now, graduates of degrees in sociology have only about a 105 IQ - very slightly above average. (I believe that was IM2’s major)

Coyote is trying to argue that brilliant engineering students are so BECAUSE they are studying engineering, the process of which makes them smarter. That’s because she wants to attribute varying levels of IQ to experience, rather than admit that much of intelligence is innate.

 

[Hector12]

Here is one study that shows IQ increases with education, indicating it is not static.

How Much Does Education Improve Intelligence? A Meta-Analysis - PubMed

Intelligence test scores and educational duration are positively correlated. This correlation could be interpreted in two ways: Students with greater propensity for intelligence go on to complete more education, or a longer education increases intelligence. We meta-analyzed three categories of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A lot of people want desperately to believe that. The failure of Head Start and No Child Left Behind to close the race gap should inspire pessimism about the ability of education to improve intelligence. So should the following chart: