Birthright Citizenship…Arguments to begin this week at the Supreme Court.

Unkotare

So if the SCOTUS rules that the 14th amendment doesnt grant birth right citizenship or they do and the 14th is changed so that it doesnt, it will still grant birth right citizenship somehow? :confused:

For the supreme court to conclude the founding fathers did not "intend" to give birthright citizenship to babies born of illegal aliens, they would have to use the same "intent" arguments from the infamous Dredd Scott decision. Where they ruled that the founding fathers didn't "intend" to have the rights granted to the people, to include black people.

The court would have to abandon it's "clear text" legal principle.
 
I mean seriously, my first ancestors came her before it was the US, then the territory was bought. Would they be citizens? What about those who came before Ellis Island and all that? If all your ancestors came here before 1870 and never swore any oath in a court, where all their descendants still from Ireland, Scotland and German states, and not seventh generation American?
They became American citizens after the revolutionary war and the Declaration of Independence.

I go back to Plymouth Rock.

Ellis and any other POE processed imigrants upon entry.
 
Question. If your great grandparents hitched a ride on a boat before here before they even had citizenship and thus never sworn in just like everyone else then, are you a citizen of the US? How?
These filthy POS illegals broke our LAWS, period! A fact the lawless Democrat scum can't escape.
 
I mean seriously, my first ancestors came her before it was the US, then the territory was bought. Would they be citizens? What about those who came before Ellis Island and all that? If all your ancestors came here before 1870 and never swore any oath in a court, where all their descendants still from Ireland, Scotland and German states, and not seventh generation American?
It’s really not that complicated…Like Unkotare you hate it but we are a sovereign nation.
 
True, enough. But I have studied SCOTUS decisions for many years.
Cool story. Did you predict them over turning Roe V Wade? No offense but your area of study seems to be being how to be a pedantic grammer nazi.
For the supreme court to conclude the founding fathers did not "intend" to give birthright citizenship to babies born of illegal aliens, they would have to use the same "intent" arguments from the infamous Dredd Scott decision. Where they ruled that the founding fathers didn't "intend" to have the rights granted to the people, to include black people.

The court would have to abandon it's "clear text" legal principle.

How many times does it have to be pointed out that the founding fathers had zero to do with the writing of the 14th amendment? It was written post-civil war to deal with the citizen status of freed slaves. It's a reconstruction amendment and has zero to do with people in the country illegally. It was written to ensure southern states were required to give formerly enslaved people Constitutional rights.
 
I mean seriously, my first ancestors came her before it was the US, then the territory was bought. Would they be citizens? What about those who came before Ellis Island and all that? If all your ancestors came here before 1870 and never swore any oath in a court, where all their descendants still from Ireland, Scotland and German states, and not seventh generation American?
Before the 14th amendment it was mainly a states rights decision that conferred citizenship. And granted nationally under the privileges and immunities clause.
Only after the various great migrations did the federal government play a major role.
 
They became American citizens after the revolutionary war and the Declaration of Independence.

I go back to Plymouth Rock.

Ellis and any other POE processed imigrants upon entry.
There was nearly 100 years between then and the first citizenship requirements and oaths. Millions came then. Others were here when their territories were acquired by the US. By this logic they and their descendants are not actually citizens. Someone tell the ghost of Eisenhower he wasn't a citizen!
 
It’s really not that complicated…Like Unkotare you hate it but we are a sovereign nation.
And that sovereign nation amended it's constitution (founding and most important document) to include birthright citizenship to anyone born here, that they have sovereignty over.
 
How many times does it have to be pointed out that the founding fathers had zero to do with the writing of the 14th amendment? It was written post-civil war to deal with the citizen status of freed slaves. It's a reconstruction amendment and has zero to do with people in the country illegally. It was written to ensure southern states were required to give formerly enslaved people Constitutional rights.
As I said, they would have to abandon their "clear text" method of interpretation, at their own peril.

Ex: The District of Columbia v. Heller decision (554 U.S. 570 (2008)) by the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to own firearms for lawful purposes, independent of service in a militia. This right, according to the Court, includes the ability to keep and bear arms within the home for self-defense. The Court's interpretation was based on a close reading of the Second Amendment's text and its historical context

This decision did not consider "intent"
 
There was nearly 100 years between then and the first citizenship requirements and oaths. Millions came then. Others were here when their territories were acquired by the US. By this logic they and their descendants are not actually citizens. Someone tell the ghost of Eisenhower he wasn't a citizen!
Duh.....they were better at immigration back then. They were processing at entry and even on the ships in some cases. They checked people for communicable diseases and quarantined them. Many weren't admitted to the US. They were vetted at the POE.

And the ones who were here, I assume you mean Indians, were granted citizenship under the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924.

The there's the Naturalization Act of 1790.
 
Duh.....they were better at immigration back then. They were processing at entry and even on the ships in some cases. They checked people for communicable diseases and quarantined them. Many weren't admitted to the US. They were vetted at the POE.
They were not doing that in 1850. You just got off the boat and joined a Five Points gang.
 
We really need an amendment that requires birthright citizenship only if one of your parents is a citizen at least.
 
But, it appears it is.

In the famous Slaughter-House cases of 1872, the Supreme Court stated that this qualifying phrase was intended to exclude “children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States.” This was confirmed in 1884 in another case, Elk vs. Wilkins, when citizenship was denied to an American Indian because he “owed immediate allegiance to” his tribe and not the United States.

The "citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the U.S." are Diplomats, Ambassadors, Foreign State leaders, Kings and Queens, Royal Family and are given diplomatic immunity and not subject to our governing jurisdiction while on our soil that would be otherwise under our jurisdiction.

Justice Joseph Story, famously known for his shaping of the Judiciary and realms of constitutional law with Chief Justice John Marshall...a founding father, is still cited today for his rulings and writings.

In one of his decisions for a case at the time, (all before the civil war) he defined and explained the exceptions to the "All Persons" and the "Subject to our jurisdiction" part that the Civil Rights bill and 14th Amendment later adopted in their wording.



Pre-Amendment citizenship law

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Before the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, the antebellum United States generally embraced the common-law doctrine of citizenship by birth within the country. Justice Joseph Story described the rule in Inglis v. Trustees of Sailor's Snug Harbor:


The rule commonly laid down in the books is, that every person who is born within the ligeance of a sovereign is a subject; and, e converso, that every person born without such allegiance is an alien. . . . Two things usually concur to create citizenship; first, birth locally within the dominions of the sovereign; and secondly, birth within the protection and obedience, or in other words, within the ligeance of the sovereign. That is, the party must be born within a place where the sovereign is at the time in full possession and exercise of his power, and the party must also at his birth derive protection from, and consequently owe obedience or allegiance to the sovereign, as such, de facto.
Story excluded children of ambassadors and the children of occupying enemy soldiers from those eligible for citizenship under the common law. But the rule also applied only to the people born of "free persons," thus excluding the children of slaves. The rule also excluded the children of Native Americans living in tribes, on the reasoning that they were born under the dominion of their tribes, and not within the purview of the law of the United States.
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Outside the above categories, the rule was generous in scope. One antebellum treatise, by William Rawle, stated: "Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity."

In the 1844 New York case of Lynch v. Clarke, the court held that the common law doctrine applied in the United States, and ruled that a child born in the country of a temporary visitor was a natural-born citizen under this rule
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Again, citizenship at birth was common practice prior to the civil war with just the few exceptions.

Now granted, the founders would have had no conception of what we call illegal aliens today, or that we could be concerned about birthright citizenship....to them it went hand in hand with being a NATURAL born citizen vs a Naturalized through laws citizen... since they are the ones who introduced birthright citizenship with a person's qualification to be a US President....imo....

They had lived under common law which covered birthright citizenship under the jurisdiction laws, for a couple of hundred years in America already, before the Revolution.
The founders understood why it was so important to continue with birthright citizenship after we became a Constitutional Republic....

They understood the language and terms that we now are debating today.

They simply, imo, could not for see today's times...again, I'll give you that...

But this also for me, is the reason why I believe the Supreme court will end up ruling, that a constitutional amendment is needed to change it... to ...mean, what y'all falsely claim it means already.
 
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