Bill to force homeschoolers to warrantless home inspections

[bodecea]

It's freaking out of control. Every single day another new case comes out....but let's dwell on home schools!!! Good grief, don't throw stones when you're in a glass house. There is no way I'd send our children to a public school

So homeschooling should get a free pass?

I've stated my opinion. They home school to avoid interference. I've witnessed home schooled children at our daughter's gym, at debates, in sporting events, etc. I don't see any abuse and they run circles around public educated kids in the debates

I have never personally witnessed abuse in public schools either. Should we just do nothing then?

These revelations of teachers screwing kids isn't abuse? Really?

I was responding to what you said. You are discounting all the revelations of abuse in homeschooling by talking about how you didn’t witness any abuse.

They pretend they don't see any abuse from Catholic priests either.

 

[Coyote]

The problem with homeschooling is that because it is unregulated it can be very good to very bad. My friend's daughter homeschools (homeschooling is pretty popular in my area) and she works hard at it. She does a great job, her kids excel, the things she can't do herself she networks with other parents and in a few cases, her kids take individual classes at a local Christian school. She goes to annual conferences and education workshops to stay on top of things. Another friend of mine turned to home schooling because her son was autistic and the local school was not adequate. Her daughter switched to homeschooling as well then went on to a public highschool. In her case - public schools failed her special needs child (and that is not infrequent - they are mandated to take them but poorly equipt to teach them). So - like with public schools - home schooling has a place and is a good option when it's done well but that isn't always the case and we shouldn't just rush to the knee-jerk defense of homeschooling and ignore the cases where it DOESN'T work or serves to hide abusive situations.

Here are examples of situations where homeschooling is little more than a means to abuse a child or worse - deny him or her an adequate education. When this occurs in public schools - it's out in the open, there are demands for accountability and there are constant arguments over what to do. In the open. With homeschooling? Not so much.

Tara Westover: Tara Westover: ‘In families like mine there is no crime worse than telling the truth.’
What sort of education did she get? What was she put through before she got out? Homeschooling is also a tool used by a lot of what amounts to "cults" to isolate their children.

Here, in this article - is a group that deliberately works to prevent any sort of regulation or oversight.

Despite Concerns Over Child Safety, Homeschool Lobby Aims to Avoid Regulation
HSLDA’s prime mission is providing legal assistance to home-schooling parents, sometimes including criminal defense and public relations for members charged with abusing or mistreating children. Several of the people it has defended in the courts or in the media have spurred controversy:

• In 1995, HSLDA represented two home-schooling parents who had been ordered by a judge to send their two children to public schools after four of the couple’s other children had died in their care. The couple were ultimately allowed to continue to home-school the children.
• In 2005, HSLDA lawyer Scott Somerville called Michael Gravelle, a home-school father who had been accused of keeping 11 of his adopted children in cages, “a hero.” (Somerville did not represent Gravelle in court). Gravelle and his wife were later convicted of child endangerment and abuse.
  
• In 2013, a lawyer affiliated with HSLDA represented Carolyn and John Jackson, a couple who were indicted on 17 counts of child endangerment and assault, including allegedly keeping their children dehydrated and having their siblings police them to make sure they did not drink from the toilet in desperation. The couple were convicted on multiple counts.

So you don't want to regulate it...and I can understand that, but doesn't it make sense for some sort of minimum to ensure that abuse doesn't occur? We have that level of accountability with public schools and private schools - but homeschooling is thus far largely exempt.

Children aren't the property of the state but neither are they the property of their parents. They aren't anyone's property.

 

[bodecea]

It starts with access, then next thing you know, parents will be reported for not filling little Johnny’s head with the multiple gender nonsense and the rest of the LGBTQ agenda.

Or does Daddy have guns, does mommy or daddy drink or anything like drugs? Has daddy ever yelled at mommy....or does daddy and mommy fight?

Just look the other way.

 

[Coyote]

W

I have no hatred of either home schooling or private schools so speak for yourself not the left.

How can you prevent child abuse?

100%? Sadly, you probably can't.

This is not to say that I'm simply shrugging and blowing it off. If I had psychic abilities, I'd hunt every one of those sick fuckers down and do things that would be taught about in police forensics classes forevermore. However, it is necessary to consider that sending authorities into a home for any reason, even when it's justified, causes damage and trauma to the children. This is a fact, and therefore it is not something you want to do unless you have good reason to believe that NOT sending them would be worse. We don't have those Amendments to protect those freedoms just for the fun and convenience of it; we have them because they are genuinely necessary, and because we live in such a free, safe, comfortable nation in general, we tend to forget how important our freedoms are, and why.

So yes, we definitely need to always look for better ways to protect children, BUT . . . we have to find ways to do it that won't destroy people's lives, INCLUDING the lives of the very children we want to protect.

How does a benign inspection of a home school cause trauma? Daycares are inspected on a regular basis...are those children traumatized?

I have no idea what sort of inspections you think daycares undergo, or how you think they're conducted, but I guarantee you that having some random adult drop into a public place - where such things happen as a matter of course - and chat with the paid employees is not even remotely the same thing to a child as having a random adult drop into their home and start inspecting things. Maybe that sort of shit happens on a daily basis at your house; I have no idea. I can assure you that it feels exactly like the invasion of privacy that it is to a child, just as it does to an adult.

You really need to forget the word "school" for a moment and look at the FIRST word in the phrase: "home". That is their HOME. Their private family space, which is now being invaded by total strangers. No matter how polite and "benign" those strangers try to be, it's still an invasion and still leaves children feeling scared and insecure. Do you think they're stupid and don't know what's going on when some strange authority figure starts asking questions about their family and home life?

I've known children who were the subjects of "benign" inspections because some jackass or other decided to file a report with DCS. Even though it amounted to nothing more than a quick interview and showing the agent around the house, those kids had nightmares about being taken away to live, sometimes for a year or more afterward. And do you know who they have to blame for the loss of safety and security about their homes and families? Do-gooders like you who dismiss the possibility that you could cause damage when your intentions are so damned pure and noble.

You know how you can recognize a noble do-gooder? By the hunted expression on the faces of the people he/she wants to help.

Don’t you think those kids might be having nightmares because their parents fill their heads with crap about the evil gubmint?

Since I know the kids in question personally, I will tell you definitively NO. That isn't the problem. In fact, the parents - who love their children far more than some rando leftist do-gooder who is only even aware of them in some abstract "our children" way - have always taught their children respect for authority and that police and other such authority figures are there to help and protect children who need it, because traditional, conservative people tend to do that. Believe it or not, we're not all - or even most - wild-eyed, unshaven militia members stockpiling guns in the wilderness for the coming collapse of civilization. The parents in question even put aside their own discomfort and insecurity about the whole thing to try to downplay it as exactly your "benign, simple visit" to minimize the damage. Didn't help much. Children aren't stupid.

Try to contemplate JUST ONCE that the problem isn't just that everyone else doesn't appreciate the wonderfulness of your nanny government, it's your nanny government.

The Turpin's "loved" their children. So much so they kept having more. Think about that. (and no, I am not implying that the people you know are like them).

 

[bodecea]

What question? You can't "prevent" child abuse. You're using one incident to justify what is basically an invasion of privacy, warrant less search and my husband says likely violates the Fourth...and will surely be challenged.

Children that are home schooled are not hidden away from society, they lead active lives, participate in sports for one, at least four of the girls that attend the same gym our daughter does are home schooled, they are happy, normal, fun loving kids (and excellent gymnasts).

Actually earlier in the thread I linked to an article citing multiple examples. The Turpins are just the most high profile.

I am not saying homeschooled children are hidden away, homeschooling like other schools can be good or bad. But unlike other schools, it’s structure allows the bad ones to remain hidden and protected by their so-called rights. And that IS a problem.

Before anyone starts going after home schools they'd be wise to start addressing the mess in public education. Start with these teachers sexually molesting students. There are THREE new cases on my feed just today.

Exactly. They should get their own house in order. They not only seem to find it difficult to spot the pervs, but when they do, they give them references so they can go elsewhere and abuse again.

Sex Abuse Scandal Rocks Public Schools


Sex Abuse Scandal Rocks Public Schools

It's freaking out of control. Every single day another new case comes out....but let's dwell on home schools!!! Good grief, don't throw stones when you're in a glass house. There is no way I'd send our children to a public school

So homeschooling should get a free pass?

Can you imagine if there were no school inspections for the same reasons the posters here don't want homeschool inspections?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

The problem with homeschooling is that because it is unregulated it can be very good to very bad. My friend's daughter homeschools (homeschooling is pretty popular in my area) and she works hard at it. She does a great job, her kids excel, the things she can't do herself she networks with other parents and in a few cases, her kids take individual classes at a local Christian school. She goes to annual conferences and education workshops to stay on top of things. Another friend of mine turned to home schooling because her son was autistic and the local school was not adequate. Her daughter switched to homeschooling as well then went on to a public highschool. In her case - public schools failed her special needs child (and that is not infrequent - they are mandated to take them but poorly equipt to teach them). So - like with public schools - home schooling has a place and is a good option when it's done well but that isn't always the case and we shouldn't just rush to the knee-jerk defense of homeschooling and ignore the cases where it DOESN'T work or serves to hide abusive situations.

Here are examples of situations where homeschooling is little more than a means to abuse a child or worse - deny him or her an adequate education. When this occurs in public schools - it's out in the open, there are demands for accountability and there are constant arguments over what to do. In the open. With homeschooling? Not so much.

Tara Westover: Tara Westover: ‘In families like mine there is no crime worse than telling the truth.’
What sort of education did she get? What was she put through before she got out? Homeschooling is also a tool used by a lot of what amounts to "cults" to isolate their children.

Here, in this article - is a group that deliberately works to prevent any sort of regulation or oversight.

Despite Concerns Over Child Safety, Homeschool Lobby Aims to Avoid Regulation
HSLDA’s prime mission is providing legal assistance to home-schooling parents, sometimes including criminal defense and public relations for members charged with abusing or mistreating children. Several of the people it has defended in the courts or in the media have spurred controversy:

• In 1995, HSLDA represented two home-schooling parents who had been ordered by a judge to send their two children to public schools after four of the couple’s other children had died in their care. The couple were ultimately allowed to continue to home-school the children.
• In 2005, HSLDA lawyer Scott Somerville called Michael Gravelle, a home-school father who had been accused of keeping 11 of his adopted children in cages, “a hero.” (Somerville did not represent Gravelle in court). Gravelle and his wife were later convicted of child endangerment and abuse.
  
• In 2013, a lawyer affiliated with HSLDA represented Carolyn and John Jackson, a couple who were indicted on 17 counts of child endangerment and assault, including allegedly keeping their children dehydrated and having their siblings police them to make sure they did not drink from the toilet in desperation. The couple were convicted on multiple counts.

So you don't want to regulate it...and I can understand that, but doesn't it make sense for some sort of minimum to ensure that abuse doesn't occur? We have that level of accountability with public schools and private schools - but homeschooling is thus far largely exempt.

Children aren't the property of the state but neither are they the property of their parents. They aren't anyone's property.

Why didn't child services catch those cases? That stuff goes on all the time, blaming it on home schooling is weak sauce

 

[Coyote]

When it comes to concern about child abuse - it's nice to say sort it out in public schools first. But you can't so easily. Not in the US. There are thousands of school districts across the US, largely under state and county control and regulations, each with their own sets of standards, funding, or lack there of, rules, oversight, etc. etc. It's not a federal system - in fact federal influence is fairly limited and there is a constant struggle between state and federal authorties for how much control and influence each should have. The result of that is you can't really "sort out" public school issues on a national level. And it's ridiculous to imply that all public schools are bad. They aren't. Many are excellant, as good as any private or homeschool. It all depends on WHERE you are. Child abuse cases make the news big time - but that doesn't necessarily mean they are the norm - not in public schools, private schools or homeschooling - and it occurs in all 3. But unlike public and private schools - there is no means of addressing it in homeschooling. None. And there is ZERO transparency and ZERO accountability.

 

[Coyote]

The problem with homeschooling is that because it is unregulated it can be very good to very bad. My friend's daughter homeschools (homeschooling is pretty popular in my area) and she works hard at it. She does a great job, her kids excel, the things she can't do herself she networks with other parents and in a few cases, her kids take individual classes at a local Christian school. She goes to annual conferences and education workshops to stay on top of things. Another friend of mine turned to home schooling because her son was autistic and the local school was not adequate. Her daughter switched to homeschooling as well then went on to a public highschool. In her case - public schools failed her special needs child (and that is not infrequent - they are mandated to take them but poorly equipt to teach them). So - like with public schools - home schooling has a place and is a good option when it's done well but that isn't always the case and we shouldn't just rush to the knee-jerk defense of homeschooling and ignore the cases where it DOESN'T work or serves to hide abusive situations.

Here are examples of situations where homeschooling is little more than a means to abuse a child or worse - deny him or her an adequate education. When this occurs in public schools - it's out in the open, there are demands for accountability and there are constant arguments over what to do. In the open. With homeschooling? Not so much.

Tara Westover: Tara Westover: ‘In families like mine there is no crime worse than telling the truth.’
What sort of education did she get? What was she put through before she got out? Homeschooling is also a tool used by a lot of what amounts to "cults" to isolate their children.

Here, in this article - is a group that deliberately works to prevent any sort of regulation or oversight.

Despite Concerns Over Child Safety, Homeschool Lobby Aims to Avoid Regulation
HSLDA’s prime mission is providing legal assistance to home-schooling parents, sometimes including criminal defense and public relations for members charged with abusing or mistreating children. Several of the people it has defended in the courts or in the media have spurred controversy:

• In 1995, HSLDA represented two home-schooling parents who had been ordered by a judge to send their two children to public schools after four of the couple’s other children had died in their care. The couple were ultimately allowed to continue to home-school the children.
• In 2005, HSLDA lawyer Scott Somerville called Michael Gravelle, a home-school father who had been accused of keeping 11 of his adopted children in cages, “a hero.” (Somerville did not represent Gravelle in court). Gravelle and his wife were later convicted of child endangerment and abuse.
  
• In 2013, a lawyer affiliated with HSLDA represented Carolyn and John Jackson, a couple who were indicted on 17 counts of child endangerment and assault, including allegedly keeping their children dehydrated and having their siblings police them to make sure they did not drink from the toilet in desperation. The couple were convicted on multiple counts.

So you don't want to regulate it...and I can understand that, but doesn't it make sense for some sort of minimum to ensure that abuse doesn't occur? We have that level of accountability with public schools and private schools - but homeschooling is thus far largely exempt.

Children aren't the property of the state but neither are they the property of their parents. They aren't anyone's property.

Why didn't child services catch those cases? That stuff goes on all the time, blaming it on home schooling is weak sauce

Because you're missing the point I was trying to make Sassy. It's not blaming it ON homeschooling, but homeschooling CAN create an environment that allows abuse to go undetected. In public or private schools a child encounters a large array of adults, other children, etc on a regular basis, all of whom might notice something is wrong with that child and report it. In a homeschooling situation - particularly those where the parents really isolate their children, there is no one to notice or report anything.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

So homeschooling should get a free pass?

I've stated my opinion. They home school to avoid interference. I've witnessed home schooled children at our daughter's gym, at debates, in sporting events, etc. I don't see any abuse and they run circles around public educated kids in the debates

I have never personally witnessed abuse in public schools either. Should we just do nothing then?

These revelations of teachers screwing kids isn't abuse? Really?

I was responding to what you said. You are discounting all the revelations of abuse in homeschooling by talking about how you didn’t witness any abuse.

They pretend they don't see any abuse from Catholic priests either.

Good gawd will you get off your Catholic priest BS already? The fact is your precious public schools have more of a kid screwing issue than the Church ever did. Stop being a redundant clown, it's past tiresome

 

[SassyIrishLass]

The problem with homeschooling is that because it is unregulated it can be very good to very bad. My friend's daughter homeschools (homeschooling is pretty popular in my area) and she works hard at it. She does a great job, her kids excel, the things she can't do herself she networks with other parents and in a few cases, her kids take individual classes at a local Christian school. She goes to annual conferences and education workshops to stay on top of things. Another friend of mine turned to home schooling because her son was autistic and the local school was not adequate. Her daughter switched to homeschooling as well then went on to a public highschool. In her case - public schools failed her special needs child (and that is not infrequent - they are mandated to take them but poorly equipt to teach them). So - like with public schools - home schooling has a place and is a good option when it's done well but that isn't always the case and we shouldn't just rush to the knee-jerk defense of homeschooling and ignore the cases where it DOESN'T work or serves to hide abusive situations.

Here are examples of situations where homeschooling is little more than a means to abuse a child or worse - deny him or her an adequate education. When this occurs in public schools - it's out in the open, there are demands for accountability and there are constant arguments over what to do. In the open. With homeschooling? Not so much.

Tara Westover: Tara Westover: ‘In families like mine there is no crime worse than telling the truth.’
What sort of education did she get? What was she put through before she got out? Homeschooling is also a tool used by a lot of what amounts to "cults" to isolate their children.

Here, in this article - is a group that deliberately works to prevent any sort of regulation or oversight.

Despite Concerns Over Child Safety, Homeschool Lobby Aims to Avoid Regulation
HSLDA’s prime mission is providing legal assistance to home-schooling parents, sometimes including criminal defense and public relations for members charged with abusing or mistreating children. Several of the people it has defended in the courts or in the media have spurred controversy:

• In 1995, HSLDA represented two home-schooling parents who had been ordered by a judge to send their two children to public schools after four of the couple’s other children had died in their care. The couple were ultimately allowed to continue to home-school the children.
• In 2005, HSLDA lawyer Scott Somerville called Michael Gravelle, a home-school father who had been accused of keeping 11 of his adopted children in cages, “a hero.” (Somerville did not represent Gravelle in court). Gravelle and his wife were later convicted of child endangerment and abuse.
  
• In 2013, a lawyer affiliated with HSLDA represented Carolyn and John Jackson, a couple who were indicted on 17 counts of child endangerment and assault, including allegedly keeping their children dehydrated and having their siblings police them to make sure they did not drink from the toilet in desperation. The couple were convicted on multiple counts.

So you don't want to regulate it...and I can understand that, but doesn't it make sense for some sort of minimum to ensure that abuse doesn't occur? We have that level of accountability with public schools and private schools - but homeschooling is thus far largely exempt.

Children aren't the property of the state but neither are they the property of their parents. They aren't anyone's property.

Why didn't child services catch those cases? That stuff goes on all the time, blaming it on home schooling is weak sauce

Because you're missing the point I was trying to make Sassy. It's not blaming it ON homeschooling, but homeschooling CAN create an environment that allows abuse to go undetected. In public or private schools a child encounters a large array of adults, other children, etc on a regular basis, all of whom might notice something is wrong with that child and report it. In a homeschooling situation - particularly those where the parents really isolate their children, there is no one to notice or report anything.

I think you are taking a few isolated cases to try and advocate thousands of home schooling parents being scrutinized by the government

 

[Coyote]

The problem with homeschooling is that because it is unregulated it can be very good to very bad. My friend's daughter homeschools (homeschooling is pretty popular in my area) and she works hard at it. She does a great job, her kids excel, the things she can't do herself she networks with other parents and in a few cases, her kids take individual classes at a local Christian school. She goes to annual conferences and education workshops to stay on top of things. Another friend of mine turned to home schooling because her son was autistic and the local school was not adequate. Her daughter switched to homeschooling as well then went on to a public highschool. In her case - public schools failed her special needs child (and that is not infrequent - they are mandated to take them but poorly equipt to teach them). So - like with public schools - home schooling has a place and is a good option when it's done well but that isn't always the case and we shouldn't just rush to the knee-jerk defense of homeschooling and ignore the cases where it DOESN'T work or serves to hide abusive situations.

Here are examples of situations where homeschooling is little more than a means to abuse a child or worse - deny him or her an adequate education. When this occurs in public schools - it's out in the open, there are demands for accountability and there are constant arguments over what to do. In the open. With homeschooling? Not so much.

Tara Westover: Tara Westover: ‘In families like mine there is no crime worse than telling the truth.’
What sort of education did she get? What was she put through before she got out? Homeschooling is also a tool used by a lot of what amounts to "cults" to isolate their children.

Here, in this article - is a group that deliberately works to prevent any sort of regulation or oversight.

Despite Concerns Over Child Safety, Homeschool Lobby Aims to Avoid Regulation
HSLDA’s prime mission is providing legal assistance to home-schooling parents, sometimes including criminal defense and public relations for members charged with abusing or mistreating children. Several of the people it has defended in the courts or in the media have spurred controversy:

• In 1995, HSLDA represented two home-schooling parents who had been ordered by a judge to send their two children to public schools after four of the couple’s other children had died in their care. The couple were ultimately allowed to continue to home-school the children.
• In 2005, HSLDA lawyer Scott Somerville called Michael Gravelle, a home-school father who had been accused of keeping 11 of his adopted children in cages, “a hero.” (Somerville did not represent Gravelle in court). Gravelle and his wife were later convicted of child endangerment and abuse.
  
• In 2013, a lawyer affiliated with HSLDA represented Carolyn and John Jackson, a couple who were indicted on 17 counts of child endangerment and assault, including allegedly keeping their children dehydrated and having their siblings police them to make sure they did not drink from the toilet in desperation. The couple were convicted on multiple counts.

So you don't want to regulate it...and I can understand that, but doesn't it make sense for some sort of minimum to ensure that abuse doesn't occur? We have that level of accountability with public schools and private schools - but homeschooling is thus far largely exempt.

Children aren't the property of the state but neither are they the property of their parents. They aren't anyone's property.

Why didn't child services catch those cases? That stuff goes on all the time, blaming it on home schooling is weak sauce

Because you're missing the point I was trying to make Sassy. It's not blaming it ON homeschooling, but homeschooling CAN create an environment that allows abuse to go undetected. In public or private schools a child encounters a large array of adults, other children, etc on a regular basis, all of whom might notice something is wrong with that child and report it. In a homeschooling situation - particularly those where the parents really isolate their children, there is no one to notice or report anything.

I think you are taking a few isolated cases to try and advocate thousands of home schooling parents being scrutinized by the government

I'm not sure how "isolated" they are because nobody knows - there is no data - and, should it be ignored? Abuse in public schools can be said to be "isolated' ... so should that not be scrutinized by the government? No.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

The problem with homeschooling is that because it is unregulated it can be very good to very bad. My friend's daughter homeschools (homeschooling is pretty popular in my area) and she works hard at it. She does a great job, her kids excel, the things she can't do herself she networks with other parents and in a few cases, her kids take individual classes at a local Christian school. She goes to annual conferences and education workshops to stay on top of things. Another friend of mine turned to home schooling because her son was autistic and the local school was not adequate. Her daughter switched to homeschooling as well then went on to a public highschool. In her case - public schools failed her special needs child (and that is not infrequent - they are mandated to take them but poorly equipt to teach them). So - like with public schools - home schooling has a place and is a good option when it's done well but that isn't always the case and we shouldn't just rush to the knee-jerk defense of homeschooling and ignore the cases where it DOESN'T work or serves to hide abusive situations.

Here are examples of situations where homeschooling is little more than a means to abuse a child or worse - deny him or her an adequate education. When this occurs in public schools - it's out in the open, there are demands for accountability and there are constant arguments over what to do. In the open. With homeschooling? Not so much.

Tara Westover: Tara Westover: ‘In families like mine there is no crime worse than telling the truth.’
What sort of education did she get? What was she put through before she got out? Homeschooling is also a tool used by a lot of what amounts to "cults" to isolate their children.

Here, in this article - is a group that deliberately works to prevent any sort of regulation or oversight.

Despite Concerns Over Child Safety, Homeschool Lobby Aims to Avoid Regulation
HSLDA’s prime mission is providing legal assistance to home-schooling parents, sometimes including criminal defense and public relations for members charged with abusing or mistreating children. Several of the people it has defended in the courts or in the media have spurred controversy:

• In 1995, HSLDA represented two home-schooling parents who had been ordered by a judge to send their two children to public schools after four of the couple’s other children had died in their care. The couple were ultimately allowed to continue to home-school the children.
• In 2005, HSLDA lawyer Scott Somerville called Michael Gravelle, a home-school father who had been accused of keeping 11 of his adopted children in cages, “a hero.” (Somerville did not represent Gravelle in court). Gravelle and his wife were later convicted of child endangerment and abuse.
  
• In 2013, a lawyer affiliated with HSLDA represented Carolyn and John Jackson, a couple who were indicted on 17 counts of child endangerment and assault, including allegedly keeping their children dehydrated and having their siblings police them to make sure they did not drink from the toilet in desperation. The couple were convicted on multiple counts.

So you don't want to regulate it...and I can understand that, but doesn't it make sense for some sort of minimum to ensure that abuse doesn't occur? We have that level of accountability with public schools and private schools - but homeschooling is thus far largely exempt.

Children aren't the property of the state but neither are they the property of their parents. They aren't anyone's property.

Why didn't child services catch those cases? That stuff goes on all the time, blaming it on home schooling is weak sauce

Because you're missing the point I was trying to make Sassy. It's not blaming it ON homeschooling, but homeschooling CAN create an environment that allows abuse to go undetected. In public or private schools a child encounters a large array of adults, other children, etc on a regular basis, all of whom might notice something is wrong with that child and report it. In a homeschooling situation - particularly those where the parents really isolate their children, there is no one to notice or report anything.

I think you are taking a few isolated cases to try and advocate thousands of home schooling parents being scrutinized by the government

I'm not sure how "isolated" they are because nobody knows - there is no data - and, should it be ignored? Abuse in public schools can be said to be "isolated' ... so should that not be scrutinized by the government? No.

I suspect very isolated....tell ya what, clean up your public school mess and then go after home schools.

 

[Coyote]

The problem with homeschooling is that because it is unregulated it can be very good to very bad. My friend's daughter homeschools (homeschooling is pretty popular in my area) and she works hard at it. She does a great job, her kids excel, the things she can't do herself she networks with other parents and in a few cases, her kids take individual classes at a local Christian school. She goes to annual conferences and education workshops to stay on top of things. Another friend of mine turned to home schooling because her son was autistic and the local school was not adequate. Her daughter switched to homeschooling as well then went on to a public highschool. In her case - public schools failed her special needs child (and that is not infrequent - they are mandated to take them but poorly equipt to teach them). So - like with public schools - home schooling has a place and is a good option when it's done well but that isn't always the case and we shouldn't just rush to the knee-jerk defense of homeschooling and ignore the cases where it DOESN'T work or serves to hide abusive situations.

Here are examples of situations where homeschooling is little more than a means to abuse a child or worse - deny him or her an adequate education. When this occurs in public schools - it's out in the open, there are demands for accountability and there are constant arguments over what to do. In the open. With homeschooling? Not so much.

Tara Westover: Tara Westover: ‘In families like mine there is no crime worse than telling the truth.’
What sort of education did she get? What was she put through before she got out? Homeschooling is also a tool used by a lot of what amounts to "cults" to isolate their children.

Here, in this article - is a group that deliberately works to prevent any sort of regulation or oversight.

Despite Concerns Over Child Safety, Homeschool Lobby Aims to Avoid Regulation
HSLDA’s prime mission is providing legal assistance to home-schooling parents, sometimes including criminal defense and public relations for members charged with abusing or mistreating children. Several of the people it has defended in the courts or in the media have spurred controversy:

• In 1995, HSLDA represented two home-schooling parents who had been ordered by a judge to send their two children to public schools after four of the couple’s other children had died in their care. The couple were ultimately allowed to continue to home-school the children.
• In 2005, HSLDA lawyer Scott Somerville called Michael Gravelle, a home-school father who had been accused of keeping 11 of his adopted children in cages, “a hero.” (Somerville did not represent Gravelle in court). Gravelle and his wife were later convicted of child endangerment and abuse.
  
• In 2013, a lawyer affiliated with HSLDA represented Carolyn and John Jackson, a couple who were indicted on 17 counts of child endangerment and assault, including allegedly keeping their children dehydrated and having their siblings police them to make sure they did not drink from the toilet in desperation. The couple were convicted on multiple counts.

So you don't want to regulate it...and I can understand that, but doesn't it make sense for some sort of minimum to ensure that abuse doesn't occur? We have that level of accountability with public schools and private schools - but homeschooling is thus far largely exempt.

Children aren't the property of the state but neither are they the property of their parents. They aren't anyone's property.

Why didn't child services catch those cases? That stuff goes on all the time, blaming it on home schooling is weak sauce

Because you're missing the point I was trying to make Sassy. It's not blaming it ON homeschooling, but homeschooling CAN create an environment that allows abuse to go undetected. In public or private schools a child encounters a large array of adults, other children, etc on a regular basis, all of whom might notice something is wrong with that child and report it. In a homeschooling situation - particularly those where the parents really isolate their children, there is no one to notice or report anything.

I think you are taking a few isolated cases to try and advocate thousands of home schooling parents being scrutinized by the government

I'm not sure how "isolated" they are because nobody knows - there is no data - and, should it be ignored? Abuse in public schools can be said to be "isolated' ... so should that not be scrutinized by the government? No.

I suspect very isolated....tell ya what, clean up your public school mess and then go after home schools.

I think we should clean up both.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Why didn't child services catch those cases? That stuff goes on all the time, blaming it on home schooling is weak sauce

Because you're missing the point I was trying to make Sassy. It's not blaming it ON homeschooling, but homeschooling CAN create an environment that allows abuse to go undetected. In public or private schools a child encounters a large array of adults, other children, etc on a regular basis, all of whom might notice something is wrong with that child and report it. In a homeschooling situation - particularly those where the parents really isolate their children, there is no one to notice or report anything.

I think you are taking a few isolated cases to try and advocate thousands of home schooling parents being scrutinized by the government

I'm not sure how "isolated" they are because nobody knows - there is no data - and, should it be ignored? Abuse in public schools can be said to be "isolated' ... so should that not be scrutinized by the government? No.

I suspect very isolated....tell ya what, clean up your public school mess and then go after home schools.

I think we should clean up both.

Well start with yours and we'll see how well you do...if it's like everything else the government does it will be fucked up beyond belief

 

[Muhammed]

I'm not saying you, personally, but a lot of abusers use the ruse of "homeschooling" to keep their kids from being under a school's watchful eye.

Predator pedophiles tend to seek employment in places like schools because they grant them authority over other people's children. That's why schools are overflowing with them.

Most pedos go after kids close to them, usually family members. You don’t think homeschooling might provide a perfect haven?

No. They would be going home after school anyways, therefore home schooled kids are not at an increased risk.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I have no hatred of either home schooling or private schools so speak for yourself not the left.

How can you prevent child abuse?

Oh get over that, they're using "child abuse" as a ruse and you fell for it. What's next warrant less searches for "child abuse"?

How about answering the question? For example, an inspection process might have uncovered the Turpin abuse much sooner and they are hardley unique.

And before you go off on another tangent I am not saying homeschooling has any more abuse than other schools but tbat it lacks any mechanism for exposing it.

What question? You can't "prevent" child abuse. You're using one incident to justify what is basically an invasion of privacy, warrant less search and my husband says likely violates the Fourth...and will surely be challenged.

Children that are home schooled are not hidden away from society, they lead active lives, participate in sports for one, at least four of the girls that attend the same gym our daughter does are home schooled, they are happy, normal, fun loving kids (and excellent gymnasts).

Actually earlier in the thread I linked to an article citing multiple examples. The Turpins are just the most high profile.

I am not saying homeschooled children are hidden away, homeschooling like other schools can be good or bad. But unlike other schools, it’s structure allows the bad ones to remain hidden and protected by their so-called rights. And that IS a problem.

Before anyone starts going after home schools they'd be wise to start addressing the mess in public education. Start with these teachers sexually molesting students. There are THREE new cases on my feed just today.

You need a new hobby!