Bill making it a felony to protest against pipelines or other fossil fuel projects

[RodISHI]

But courts can too easily obfuscate under the color of law. Sorry I do not trust the current justice system or these pipeline companies and many legislators either at this point.

So basically protesters should be able to walk onto property and try to damage equipment that may harm them or the environment if broken in a certain way?

This law does NOTHING to stop people protesting.

I don't find the clarity in that as you do. No I don't believe that one should be able to damage another person's property but to protest peacefully there should be no doubt that this is legal to do. Also if someone puts something on my property I didn't approve of, sell the rights to do such or give permission so such could be done I should be able to rip it out at any time too. Infrastructure could be anything they say it is from a phone line to a
pipeline or even a receiver for radio reception.

Actually under this law the term infrastructure is pretty well defined.

And I guess from your post you don't believe in eminent domain or easements.

Actually no I do not agree with eminent domain laws in most cases as its to easy to screw over the landowner without proper compensation. These pipeline companies majors should use their own money and outright buy the land that they desire to use instead of stealing it through legislative measures or by rook and crook. Its to damn recent these local assholes here made up a quit claim deed giving our crooked neighbors free reign to steal truckloads of our walnut trees and they also took a good little chunk of land without properly compensating us for it. They didn't follow the law, they again used the sheriff to threaten me with arrest if I didn't shut my mouth about their illegal acts.

Simple, the legislators can write in their proposed legislation that peaceful protest are not prosecutable and define beyond a doubt that easements are not ownership.

Eminent domain is not stealing, and in some cases is needed because one person being able to stop an infrastructure project would make them impossible to implement.

The people are compensated, and can sue for more compensation if they feel it is insufficient.

Yeah I know you think that but it doesn't work like that. I just told you what they did here to us in just one instance.

 

[martybegan]

So once people form a corporation they lose their ability to petition government for legislation they want?

Works for me.

Corporations exist at the pleasure of the charter we give them. To quote an old comedy line of a father talking to his son, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out".

I was trying to be sarcastic.

Where in the constitution does it say a person gives up their rights when they attempt to engage in commerce?

I'm not aware that it does but that's not what you asked is it.

Corporations are not people my friend. Nor are they our friends, people.

They are groupings of people, given certain characteristics to allow them to do business as separate entities.

By what part of the Constitution do those people give up the right to petition their legislators solely because they are part of a corporation?

How does a collective have or get the power to override the individuals rights?

Each member of that collective should present their own case.

What individual right are you talking about?

So every employee of a company should have to address a governing body to make the case for something a corporation wants?

Now you are just being obtuse.

 

[martybegan]

So basically protesters should be able to walk onto property and try to damage equipment that may harm them or the environment if broken in a certain way?

This law does NOTHING to stop people protesting.

I don't find the clarity in that as you do. No I don't believe that one should be able to damage another person's property but to protest peacefully there should be no doubt that this is legal to do. Also if someone puts something on my property I didn't approve of, sell the rights to do such or give permission so such could be done I should be able to rip it out at any time too. Infrastructure could be anything they say it is from a phone line to a
pipeline or even a receiver for radio reception.

Actually under this law the term infrastructure is pretty well defined.

And I guess from your post you don't believe in eminent domain or easements.

Actually no I do not agree with eminent domain laws in most cases as its to easy to screw over the landowner without proper compensation. These pipeline companies majors should use their own money and outright buy the land that they desire to use instead of stealing it through legislative measures or by rook and crook. Its to damn recent these local assholes here made up a quit claim deed giving our crooked neighbors free reign to steal truckloads of our walnut trees and they also took a good little chunk of land without properly compensating us for it. They didn't follow the law, they again used the sheriff to threaten me with arrest if I didn't shut my mouth about their illegal acts.

Simple, the legislators can write in their proposed legislation that peaceful protest are not prosecutable and define beyond a doubt that easements are not ownership.

Eminent domain is not stealing, and in some cases is needed because one person being able to stop an infrastructure project would make them impossible to implement.

The people are compensated, and can sue for more compensation if they feel it is insufficient.

Yeah I know you think that but it doesn't work like that. I just told you what they did here to us in just one instance.

Can you reference the case, and present all the pertinent facts, not just your side of it?

 

[Godboy]

West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony

Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.


Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).

No one is going to jail for speaking their mind. What you cant do is **** with pipelines by chaining yourself to their equipment, blocking their vehicles from coming and going, and otherwise shutting down their business. You deserve jail time if you do that shit.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience? Sounds like fascism to me.

If you **** with someones business and it costs them a bunch of money, you should be locked away in prison. You dont get to ruin someones business without consequences.

 

[RodISHI]

Works for me.

Corporations exist at the pleasure of the charter we give them. To quote an old comedy line of a father talking to his son, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out".

I was trying to be sarcastic.

Where in the constitution does it say a person gives up their rights when they attempt to engage in commerce?

I'm not aware that it does but that's not what you asked is it.

Corporations are not people my friend. Nor are they our friends, people.

They are groupings of people, given certain characteristics to allow them to do business as separate entities.

By what part of the Constitution do those people give up the right to petition their legislators solely because they are part of a corporation?

How does a collective have or get the power to override the individuals rights?

Each member of that collective should present their own case.

What individual right are you talking about?

So every employee of a company should have to address a governing body to make the case for something a corporation wants?

Now you are just being obtuse.

No now you are saying employee and employees do not have the same rights as an owner.

 

[martybegan]

I was trying to be sarcastic.

Where in the constitution does it say a person gives up their rights when they attempt to engage in commerce?

I'm not aware that it does but that's not what you asked is it.

Corporations are not people my friend. Nor are they our friends, people.

They are groupings of people, given certain characteristics to allow them to do business as separate entities.

By what part of the Constitution do those people give up the right to petition their legislators solely because they are part of a corporation?

How does a collective have or get the power to override the individuals rights?

Each member of that collective should present their own case.

What individual right are you talking about?

So every employee of a company should have to address a governing body to make the case for something a corporation wants?

Now you are just being obtuse.

No now you are saying employee and employees do not have the same rights as an owner.

To the owner's business? they sure as hell don't have the same "rights" when it comes to the business.

I get it, you think corporations are out to get you. It's nice to have a boogeyman with no teeth in your nightmares.

 

[RodISHI]

West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony

Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.


Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).

No one is going to jail for speaking their mind. What you cant do is **** with pipelines by chaining yourself to their equipment, blocking their vehicles from coming and going, and otherwise shutting down their business. You deserve jail time if you do that shit.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience? Sounds like fascism to me.

If you **** with someones business and it costs them a bunch of money, you should be locked away in prison. You dont get to ruin someones business without consequences.

Really? If that were the case there are a lot of people that owe us a hell of a lot of reparations. The judiciary is too corrupt for that to work like its supposed too.

 

[RodISHI]

I'm not aware that it does but that's not what you asked is it.

Corporations are not people my friend. Nor are they our friends, people.

They are groupings of people, given certain characteristics to allow them to do business as separate entities.

By what part of the Constitution do those people give up the right to petition their legislators solely because they are part of a corporation?

How does a collective have or get the power to override the individuals rights?

Each member of that collective should present their own case.

What individual right are you talking about?

So every employee of a company should have to address a governing body to make the case for something a corporation wants?

Now you are just being obtuse.

No now you are saying employee and employees do not have the same rights as an owner.

To the owner's business? they sure as hell don't have the same "rights" when it comes to the business.

I get it, you think corporations are out to get you. It's nice to have a boogeyman with no teeth in your nightmares.

We have a pipeline on our property. It was put there through illegal means. We own a patent deed one of these big companies desired to have control over; enough so they broke a couple of little nobody's with everything they could possibly throw at us and then some. A boogeyman? Call it what you wish but the truth cannot be hidden when it comes to how corrupt they are. Also, I don't have nightmares but I'd almost bet those who participated in what was done to us do.

 

[2aguy]

West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony

Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.


Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).

Define, "Civil Disobedience." Does this mean if they trespass on private property, sabotage work sites or equipment they will be arrested? Is so, what is the problem......

 

[martybegan]

They are groupings of people, given certain characteristics to allow them to do business as separate entities.

By what part of the Constitution do those people give up the right to petition their legislators solely because they are part of a corporation?

How does a collective have or get the power to override the individuals rights?

Each member of that collective should present their own case.

What individual right are you talking about?

So every employee of a company should have to address a governing body to make the case for something a corporation wants?

Now you are just being obtuse.

No now you are saying employee and employees do not have the same rights as an owner.

To the owner's business? they sure as hell don't have the same "rights" when it comes to the business.

I get it, you think corporations are out to get you. It's nice to have a boogeyman with no teeth in your nightmares.

We have a pipeline on our property. It was put there through illegal means. We own a patent deed one of these big companies desired to have control over; enough so they broke a couple of little nobody's with everything they could possibly throw at us and then some. A boogeyman? Call it what you wish but the truth cannot be hidden when it comes to how corrupt they are. Also, I don't have nightmares but I'd almost bet those who participated in what was done to us do.

Was the pipeline there before you bought the property?

 

[okfine]

West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony

Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.


Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).

The following sounds similar to the impact of the "wall"

"“This bill seeks to shield wealthy fossil fuel corporations from criticism and protest,” the group said. “The corporate raiders this legislation would shield are the same ones who seize West Virginians’ land through eminent domain grabs, construct shoddy infrastructure destined to fail, and leave the taxpayers of our state with the hazardous mess and the economic ruin. Now they want to punish people who protest pipelines on their own land, and those who speak out about the harm done to their health, their families, or their future.”

 

[Pogo]

West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony

Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.


Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).

No one is going to jail for speaking their mind. What you cant do is **** with pipelines by chaining yourself to their equipment, blocking their vehicles from coming and going, and otherwise shutting down their business. You deserve jail time if you do that shit.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience? Sounds like fascism to me.

If you **** with someones business and it costs them a bunch of money, you should be locked away in prison. You dont get to ruin someones business without consequences.

Whereas if someone's business ***** with, say, your health, you need to shut the **** up, amirite?

I keep thinking of this infamous fascist incident --

​

 

[whitehall]

There's a difference between "protesting" and "civil disobedience".

 

[Muhammed]

West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony

Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.


Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).

^^^
Fake news.

 

[Muhammed]

Free speech is certainly under attack from all angles, isn't it?

Only by Democrats.

 

[Muhammed]

Like I'm going to sympathize with an idiot editor who also founded a
single payer health care for america website?

No thanks. Lock those smelly unwashed anti-pipeline protesters up and throw away the key.

Besides, WV is coal country. Why would Big Coal even care about gas pipelines?

The article specifically mentions "other fossil fual projects".

And people should have a voice. I hate that protestors cause problems for fossil fuel companies. But those people deserve the right to voice their grievances.

Agreed.

However, the bill does not prevent them from doing so. You got duped by the fake news media again.

Sucker!

 

[RodISHI]

How does a collective have or get the power to override the individuals rights?

Each member of that collective should present their own case.

What individual right are you talking about?

So every employee of a company should have to address a governing body to make the case for something a corporation wants?

Now you are just being obtuse.

No now you are saying employee and employees do not have the same rights as an owner.

To the owner's business? they sure as hell don't have the same "rights" when it comes to the business.

I get it, you think corporations are out to get you. It's nice to have a boogeyman with no teeth in your nightmares.

We have a pipeline on our property. It was put there through illegal means. We own a patent deed one of these big companies desired to have control over; enough so they broke a couple of little nobody's with everything they could possibly throw at us and then some. A boogeyman? Call it what you wish but the truth cannot be hidden when it comes to how corrupt they are. Also, I don't have nightmares but I'd almost bet those who participated in what was done to us do.

Was the pipeline there before you bought the property?

Yes it was and it was put in through illegal measures. I do not take issue with a pipeline being there. I take issue with the crookery they used to coverup and what they did in their efforts to bury us and steal what rightfully belongs to me. I take issue with their fraud, their bully actions, their theft of personal property, their extortion efforts, their counterfeiting of documents, their fraud upon the courts and their attempt to forego proper payments, etc... for using the land that Rod and I legally own. Who wouldn't? You call it a "boogeyman with no teeth" when in fact they believe that illegal acts are rightfully theirs to commit as they see fit. I said, we need pipelines. What we do not need is the massive abuse that they so willingly perpetrate to get their way. I have no issues with anyone who is rich but I do have and take issue with anyone who used theft, fraud, illegal measures, unethical acts, power over other peoples finances for the sake of power to do as they please and deception to get it. I also take issue with irresponsible companies who fail to meet their environmental obligations like trying to keep pipelines raking in money for them beyond the safe life of the said pipes installed.

If they are unwilling to replace worn out pipelines at the end stage of the life of the pipes they do not need them and should not have them. Koch brothers, Excel or whoever else needs to be held fully accountable for not taking full responsible and reasonable efforts to insure leaks and spills are not happening. Just selling your liability to some poor unknowable fool willing to invest in those old lines when it reaches the end of its lifespan should be illegal.

America's Dangerous Pipelines

 

[martybegan]

What individual right are you talking about?

So every employee of a company should have to address a governing body to make the case for something a corporation wants?

Now you are just being obtuse.

No now you are saying employee and employees do not have the same rights as an owner.

To the owner's business? they sure as hell don't have the same "rights" when it comes to the business.

I get it, you think corporations are out to get you. It's nice to have a boogeyman with no teeth in your nightmares.

We have a pipeline on our property. It was put there through illegal means. We own a patent deed one of these big companies desired to have control over; enough so they broke a couple of little nobody's with everything they could possibly throw at us and then some. A boogeyman? Call it what you wish but the truth cannot be hidden when it comes to how corrupt they are. Also, I don't have nightmares but I'd almost bet those who participated in what was done to us do.

Was the pipeline there before you bought the property?

Yes it was and it was put in through illegal measures. I do not take issue with a pipeline being there. I take issue with the crookery they used to coverup and what they did in their efforts to bury us and steal what rightfully belongs to me. I take issue with their fraud, their bully actions, their theft of personal property, their extortion efforts, their counterfeiting of documents, their fraud upon the courts and their attempt to forego proper payments, etc... for using the land that Rod and I legally own. Who wouldn't? You call it a "boogeyman with no teeth" when in fact they believe that illegal acts are rightfully theirs to commit as they see fit. I said, we need pipelines. What we do not need is the massive abuse that they so willingly perpetrate to get their way. I have no issues with anyone who is rich but I do have and take issue with anyone who used theft, fraud, illegal measures, unethical acts, power over other peoples finances for the sake of power to do as they please and deception to get it. I also take issue with irresponsible companies who fail to meet their environmental obligations like trying to keep pipelines raking in money for them beyond the safe life of the said pipes installed.

If they are unwilling to replace worn out pipelines at the end stage of the life of the pipes they do not need them and should not have them. Koch brothers, Excel or whoever else needs to be held fully accountable for not taking full responsible and reasonable efforts to insure leaks and spills are not happening. Just selling your liability to some poor unknowable fool willing to invest in those old lines when it reaches the end of its lifespan should be illegal.

America's Dangerous Pipelines

So did you know it was there when you bought the property?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony

Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.


Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).

No one is going to jail for speaking their mind. What you cant do is **** with pipelines by chaining yourself to their equipment, blocking their vehicles from coming and going, and otherwise shutting down their business. You deserve jail time if you do that shit.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience? Sounds like fascism to me.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience against a corporatocracy, specifically.

Isn't civil disobedience technically against government, or at least government policies?

This is about vandalizing private property, or preventing workers from performing their duties.

...and making sure the trains run on time.

 

[RodISHI]

No now you are saying employee and employees do not have the same rights as an owner.

To the owner's business? they sure as hell don't have the same "rights" when it comes to the business.

I get it, you think corporations are out to get you. It's nice to have a boogeyman with no teeth in your nightmares.

We have a pipeline on our property. It was put there through illegal means. We own a patent deed one of these big companies desired to have control over; enough so they broke a couple of little nobody's with everything they could possibly throw at us and then some. A boogeyman? Call it what you wish but the truth cannot be hidden when it comes to how corrupt they are. Also, I don't have nightmares but I'd almost bet those who participated in what was done to us do.

Was the pipeline there before you bought the property?

Yes it was and it was put in through illegal measures. I do not take issue with a pipeline being there. I take issue with the crookery they used to coverup and what they did in their efforts to bury us and steal what rightfully belongs to me. I take issue with their fraud, their bully actions, their theft of personal property, their extortion efforts, their counterfeiting of documents, their fraud upon the courts and their attempt to forego proper payments, etc... for using the land that Rod and I legally own. Who wouldn't? You call it a "boogeyman with no teeth" when in fact they believe that illegal acts are rightfully theirs to commit as they see fit. I said, we need pipelines. What we do not need is the massive abuse that they so willingly perpetrate to get their way. I have no issues with anyone who is rich but I do have and take issue with anyone who used theft, fraud, illegal measures, unethical acts, power over other peoples finances for the sake of power to do as they please and deception to get it. I also take issue with irresponsible companies who fail to meet their environmental obligations like trying to keep pipelines raking in money for them beyond the safe life of the said pipes installed.

If they are unwilling to replace worn out pipelines at the end stage of the life of the pipes they do not need them and should not have them. Koch brothers, Excel or whoever else needs to be held fully accountable for not taking full responsible and reasonable efforts to insure leaks and spills are not happening. Just selling your liability to some poor unknowable fool willing to invest in those old lines when it reaches the end of its lifespan should be illegal.

America's Dangerous Pipelines

So did you know it was there when you bought the property?

Never gave it a thought until we tried to find out why they pulled so many illegal acts against us. Hadn't even had the land fully surveyed at the point we bought it all. Didn't have a clue and truthfully would have never even looked at it all if they had not done what they did. Thing is though I own that pipeline if you get down to the legalities of it all because it is a patent deed. I didn't know it was a patent deed when we bought it either. Again, wouldn't have given it all a second thought if they had not did what they did. Didn't have time to as we were busy working on building a small mom and pop mine operation (not an easy task if you have any knowledge of that field). Yet since we do own it by law and patent deed I am pretty sure they owe us a heck of a good chunk from the use of our property for the last twenty plus years which they haven't paid for and reparations for their unlawful acts against us, all the personal property damage and stolen, loss of business through their business interference, etc. etc...

Think about it the average person really does not have time for all the bullshit tossed out there as they are busy working and living. By the time you learn about these things you are so buried in bullshit and lies its pretty tough to deal with it all. Crooks and thugs depend on that from what I've seen.