Bill making it a felony to protest against pipelines or other fossil fuel projects

[martybegan]

It bans disobedience not protest

Civil disobedience is a form of protest. It is one of the few meothos the people have of getting their voices heard over the sound of companies buying politicians.

No it doesn’t ! We are going to build a pipeline and there’s nothing you can do about it if you get in my way we will run you over peacefully

"We"? lol I think a waiter in Boston has no power in this fight. Good to see you don't give a shit about the people. Not news, but still good to see.

I care about the land that has been trashed by these so called environmentalist! The threats to workers, the destruction of property... You can peacefully protest all you want

or you can break these laws, get arrested, get convicted, serve your time/pay your fine, and then go out and DO IT AGAIN, just like the Jim Crow law protesters did.

If you truly believe in the threat caused by a give situation, you should have the balls to fight for it. The Civil Rights protesters sure as hell did.

 

[Pogo]

West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony

Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.


Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).

No one is going to jail for speaking their mind. What you cant do is **** with pipelines by chaining yourself to their equipment, blocking their vehicles from coming and going, and otherwise shutting down their business. You deserve jail time if you do that shit.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience? Sounds like fascism to me.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience against a corporatocracy, specifically.

Isn't civil disobedience technically against government, or at least government policies?

This is about vandalizing private property, or preventing workers from performing their duties.

Smells like the plaintiff here is a collusion between government and corporatia.

 

[martybegan]

West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony

Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.


Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).

No one is going to jail for speaking their mind. What you cant do is **** with pipelines by chaining yourself to their equipment, blocking their vehicles from coming and going, and otherwise shutting down their business. You deserve jail time if you do that shit.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience? Sounds like fascism to me.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience against a corporatocracy, specifically.

Isn't civil disobedience technically against government, or at least government policies?

This is about vandalizing private property, or preventing workers from performing their duties.

Smells like the plaintiff here is a collusion between government and corporatia.

So once people form a corporation they lose their ability to petition government for legislation they want?

 

[RodISHI]

The actual text of the original version of the law:

HB 4615 Text

(c)(1) Any person who willfully and knowingly trespasses or enters property containing a critical infrastructure facility without permission by the owner of the property or lawful occupant thereof is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500, or confined in jail not less than 30 days nor more than one year, or both fined and confined. If the intent of the trespasser is to willfully damage, destroy, vandalize, deface, tamper with equipment, or impede or inhibit operations of the critical infrastructure facility, the person is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $1,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than three years, or both fined and imprisoned.

(2) Any person who willfully damages, destroys, vandalizes, defaces or tampers with equipment in a critical infrastructure facility is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $2,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for a term of not less than one year nor more than five years, or both fined and imprisoned.

(3) Any person or organization who conspires with any person or organization to commit the offense of trespass against a critical infrastructure facility in violation of subdivision (1) of subsection (c) of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof shall be fined in an amount of not less than $5,000. Any person or organization who conspires with any person or organization to willfully damage, destroy, vandalize, deface or tamper with equipment in a critical infrastructure facility is guilty of a felony and, shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not less than $10,000.

(d)(1) Any person who is arrested for or convicted of an offense under this section may be held civilly liable for any damages to personal or real property while trespassing, in addition to the penalties imposed by this section.

(2) Any person or entity that compensates, provides consideration to or remunerates a person for trespassing as described in subdivision (1) of subsection (c) of this section may also be held liable for damages to personal or real property committed by the person compensated or remunerated for trespassing.

So basically trespassing on one of these facilities is still a misdemeanor, but if you start breaking things you are going to be charged with a felony, and the owner can go after you for restitution.

If the pipeline was granted an easement which did not come from the original owner who has the right to determine trespass the deeded property owner or the utility company? The utility company claims ownership without actually ever owning the land?

They own the pipeline, and since this law mostly covers damage or vandalism to the equipment in question, the easement issue becomes moot if they damage the mechanical property.

But courts can too easily obfuscate under the color of law. Sorry I do not trust the current justice system or these pipeline companies and many legislators either at this point.

So basically protesters should be able to walk onto property and try to damage equipment that may harm them or the environment if broken in a certain way?

This law does NOTHING to stop people protesting.

I don't find the clarity in that as you do. No I don't believe that one should be able to damage another person's property but to protest peacefully there should be no doubt that this is legal to do. Also if someone puts something on my property I didn't approve of, sell the rights to do such or give permission so such could be done I should be able to rip it out at any time too. Infrastructure could be anything they say it is from a phone line to a pipeline or even a receiver for radio reception.

 

[Pogo]

No one is going to jail for speaking their mind. What you cant do is **** with pipelines by chaining yourself to their equipment, blocking their vehicles from coming and going, and otherwise shutting down their business. You deserve jail time if you do that shit.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience? Sounds like fascism to me.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience against a corporatocracy, specifically.

Isn't civil disobedience technically against government, or at least government policies?

This is about vandalizing private property, or preventing workers from performing their duties.

Smells like the plaintiff here is a collusion between government and corporatia.

So once people form a corporation they lose their ability to petition government for legislation they want?

Works for me.

Corporations exist at the pleasure of the charter we give them. To quote an old comedy line of a father talking to his son, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out".

 

[RodISHI]

Felony convictions for civil disobedience? Sounds like fascism to me.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience against a corporatocracy, specifically.

Isn't civil disobedience technically against government, or at least government policies?

This is about vandalizing private property, or preventing workers from performing their duties.

Smells like the plaintiff here is a collusion between government and corporatia.

So once people form a corporation they lose their ability to petition government for legislation they want?

Works for me.

Corporations exist at the pleasure of the charter we give them. To quote an old comedy line of a father talking to his son, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out".

Now that is where some legislation could do some good for the people. Corporations being bought up and then the CEO's and boards giving themselves more power over the corporations through stocks should be banned.

 

[Cosmos]

A clear and an obvious violation of the First Amendment and the right to associate.

The article didn't link to the actual wording of the law, which makes me think that this doesn't impact protesting, it just changes trespass onto property owned by said companies with regards to impeding the work of said companies from a misdemeanor to a felony.

Yes. This isn't about protesting. It's about the vandalism, threats to individuals, damages, and trash left behind by protestors. West Virginia has looked at what happened in North Dakota and they want no part of it.

 

[martybegan]

The actual text of the original version of the law:

HB 4615 Text

So basically trespassing on one of these facilities is still a misdemeanor, but if you start breaking things you are going to be charged with a felony, and the owner can go after you for restitution.

If the pipeline was granted an easement which did not come from the original owner who has the right to determine trespass the deeded property owner or the utility company? The utility company claims ownership without actually ever owning the land?

They own the pipeline, and since this law mostly covers damage or vandalism to the equipment in question, the easement issue becomes moot if they damage the mechanical property.

But courts can too easily obfuscate under the color of law. Sorry I do not trust the current justice system or these pipeline companies and many legislators either at this point.

So basically protesters should be able to walk onto property and try to damage equipment that may harm them or the environment if broken in a certain way?

This law does NOTHING to stop people protesting.

I don't find the clarity in that as you do. No I don't believe that one should be able to damage another person's property but to protest peacefully there should be no doubt that this is legal to do. Also if someone puts something on my property I didn't approve of, sell the rights to do such or give permission so such could be done I should be able to rip it out at any time too. Infrastructure could be anything they say it is from a phone line to a
pipeline or even a receiver for radio reception.

Actually under this law the term infrastructure is pretty well defined.

And I guess from your post you don't believe in eminent domain or easements.

 

[martybegan]

Felony convictions for civil disobedience? Sounds like fascism to me.

Felony convictions for civil disobedience against a corporatocracy, specifically.

Isn't civil disobedience technically against government, or at least government policies?

This is about vandalizing private property, or preventing workers from performing their duties.

Smells like the plaintiff here is a collusion between government and corporatia.

So once people form a corporation they lose their ability to petition government for legislation they want?

Works for me.

Corporations exist at the pleasure of the charter we give them. To quote an old comedy line of a father talking to his son, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out".

I was trying to be sarcastic.

Where in the constitution does it say a person gives up their rights when they attempt to engage in commerce?

 

[WinterBorn]

West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony

Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.


Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).

Hey it’s the anti trumper! Let me read this see how dishonest you are

Hey, it's the Liar. Let me wait and see what lies you tell about what I said.

Your post is full of fallacies this protects the workers of the pipeline this protects the equipment this protects the property it says nothing about protesting

You don't think civil disobedience is a form of protest? I guess you would have had the people sitting at lunch counters in the '60s prosecuted too?

You can’t make up your own facts.. says nothing about Peacefully protesting

Why not? You make up your own facts all the time.

I said it effected protest. You added "peacefully". At some point the people should be able to stop corporations bent on screwing them.

 

[depotoo]

Free speech is certainly under attack from all angles, isn't it?

As well as energy independence.

 

[WinterBorn]

It bans disobedience not protest

Civil disobedience is a form of protest. It is one of the few meothos the people have of getting their voices heard over the sound of companies buying politicians.

No it doesn’t ! We are going to build a pipeline and there’s nothing you can do about it if you get in my way we will run you over peacefully

"We"? lol I think a waiter in Boston has no power in this fight. Good to see you don't give a shit about the people. Not news, but still good to see.

I care about the land that has been trashed by these so called environmentalist! The threats to workers, the destruction of property... You can peacefully protest all you want

Oh, so now protecting workers is a priority. But safety regulations that do more to protect them should be removed?

Its obvious you are an authoritarian who wants the gov't to have total control.

 

[WinterBorn]

It bans disobedience not protest

Civil disobedience is a form of protest. It is one of the few meothos the people have of getting their voices heard over the sound of companies buying politicians.

No it doesn’t ! We are going to build a pipeline and there’s nothing you can do about it if you get in my way we will run you over peacefully

"We"? lol I think a waiter in Boston has no power in this fight. Good to see you don't give a shit about the people. Not news, but still good to see.

I care about the land that has been trashed by these so called environmentalist! The threats to workers, the destruction of property... You can peacefully protest all you want

The trash left behind at protests does not do one tenth the damage that spills from pipelines do. But you will happily support that, as long as it is not on your land.

 

[Jitss617]

It bans disobedience not protest

Civil disobedience is a form of protest. It is one of the few meothos the people have of getting their voices heard over the sound of companies buying politicians.

No it doesn’t ! We are going to build a pipeline and there’s nothing you can do about it if you get in my way we will run you over peacefully

"We"? lol I think a waiter in Boston has no power in this fight. Good to see you don't give a shit about the people. Not news, but still good to see.

I care about the land that has been trashed by these so called environmentalist! The threats to workers, the destruction of property... You can peacefully protest all you want

Oh, so now protecting workers is a priority. But safety regulations that do more to protect them should be removed?

Its obvious you are an authoritarian who wants the gov't to have total control.

You’re comparing workers being attacked by protesters to your fat ass sitting in a truck all day watching men work while you eat donuts, lol so it pushes out small business that cant afford the ordinance the gov has created? Lol

 

[Jitss617]

It bans disobedience not protest

Civil disobedience is a form of protest. It is one of the few meothos the people have of getting their voices heard over the sound of companies buying politicians.

No it doesn’t ! We are going to build a pipeline and there’s nothing you can do about it if you get in my way we will run you over peacefully

"We"? lol I think a waiter in Boston has no power in this fight. Good to see you don't give a shit about the people. Not news, but still good to see.

I care about the land that has been trashed by these so called environmentalist! The threats to workers, the destruction of property... You can peacefully protest all you want

The trash left behind at protests does not do one tenth the damage that spills from pipelines do. But you will happily support that, as long as it is not on your land.

If I catch you anywhere near my pipeline boy.. wait that was gay lol

 

[Pogo]

Felony convictions for civil disobedience against a corporatocracy, specifically.

Isn't civil disobedience technically against government, or at least government policies?

This is about vandalizing private property, or preventing workers from performing their duties.

Smells like the plaintiff here is a collusion between government and corporatia.

So once people form a corporation they lose their ability to petition government for legislation they want?

Works for me.

Corporations exist at the pleasure of the charter we give them. To quote an old comedy line of a father talking to his son, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out".

I was trying to be sarcastic.

Where in the constitution does it say a person gives up their rights when they attempt to engage in commerce?

I'm not aware that it does but that's not what you asked is it.

Corporations are not people my friend. Nor are they our friends, people. They're more like spoiled children. Would you let an irresponsible child run around unencumbered by discipline?

 

[RodISHI]

If the pipeline was granted an easement which did not come from the original owner who has the right to determine trespass the deeded property owner or the utility company? The utility company claims ownership without actually ever owning the land?

They own the pipeline, and since this law mostly covers damage or vandalism to the equipment in question, the easement issue becomes moot if they damage the mechanical property.

But courts can too easily obfuscate under the color of law. Sorry I do not trust the current justice system or these pipeline companies and many legislators either at this point.

So basically protesters should be able to walk onto property and try to damage equipment that may harm them or the environment if broken in a certain way?

This law does NOTHING to stop people protesting.

I don't find the clarity in that as you do. No I don't believe that one should be able to damage another person's property but to protest peacefully there should be no doubt that this is legal to do. Also if someone puts something on my property I didn't approve of, sell the rights to do such or give permission so such could be done I should be able to rip it out at any time too. Infrastructure could be anything they say it is from a phone line to a
pipeline or even a receiver for radio reception.

Actually under this law the term infrastructure is pretty well defined.

And I guess from your post you don't believe in eminent domain or easements.

Actually no I do not agree with eminent domain laws in most cases as its to easy to screw over the landowner without proper compensation. These pipeline companies majors should use their own money and outright buy the land that they desire to use instead of stealing it through legislative measures or by rook and crook. Its to damn recent these local assholes here made up a quit claim deed giving our crooked neighbors free reign to steal truckloads of our walnut trees and they also took a good little chunk of land without properly compensating us for it. They didn't follow the law, they again used the sheriff to threaten me with arrest if I didn't shut my mouth about their illegal acts.

Simple, the legislators can write in their proposed legislation that peaceful protest are not prosecutable and define beyond a doubt that easements are not ownership.

 

[martybegan]

Isn't civil disobedience technically against government, or at least government policies?

This is about vandalizing private property, or preventing workers from performing their duties.

Smells like the plaintiff here is a collusion between government and corporatia.

So once people form a corporation they lose their ability to petition government for legislation they want?

Works for me.

Corporations exist at the pleasure of the charter we give them. To quote an old comedy line of a father talking to his son, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out".

I was trying to be sarcastic.

Where in the constitution does it say a person gives up their rights when they attempt to engage in commerce?

I'm not aware that it does but that's not what you asked is it.

Corporations are not people my friend. Nor are they our friends, people.

They are groupings of people, given certain characteristics to allow them to do business as separate entities.

By what part of the Constitution do those people give up the right to petition their legislators solely because they are part of a corporation?

 

[martybegan]

They own the pipeline, and since this law mostly covers damage or vandalism to the equipment in question, the easement issue becomes moot if they damage the mechanical property.

But courts can too easily obfuscate under the color of law. Sorry I do not trust the current justice system or these pipeline companies and many legislators either at this point.

So basically protesters should be able to walk onto property and try to damage equipment that may harm them or the environment if broken in a certain way?

This law does NOTHING to stop people protesting.

I don't find the clarity in that as you do. No I don't believe that one should be able to damage another person's property but to protest peacefully there should be no doubt that this is legal to do. Also if someone puts something on my property I didn't approve of, sell the rights to do such or give permission so such could be done I should be able to rip it out at any time too. Infrastructure could be anything they say it is from a phone line to a
pipeline or even a receiver for radio reception.

Actually under this law the term infrastructure is pretty well defined.

And I guess from your post you don't believe in eminent domain or easements.

Actually no I do not agree with eminent domain laws in most cases as its to easy to screw over the landowner without proper compensation. These pipeline companies majors should use their own money and outright buy the land that they desire to use instead of stealing it through legislative measures or by rook and crook. Its to damn recent these local assholes here made up a quit claim deed giving our crooked neighbors free reign to steal truckloads of our walnut trees and they also took a good little chunk of land without properly compensating us for it. They didn't follow the law, they again used the sheriff to threaten me with arrest if I didn't shut my mouth about their illegal acts.

Simple, the legislators can write in their proposed legislation that peaceful protest are not prosecutable and define beyond a doubt that easements are not ownership.

Eminent domain is not stealing, and in some cases is needed because one person being able to stop an infrastructure project would make them impossible to implement.

The people are compensated, and can sue for more compensation if they feel it is insufficient.

 

[RodISHI]

Smells like the plaintiff here is a collusion between government and corporatia.

So once people form a corporation they lose their ability to petition government for legislation they want?

Works for me.

Corporations exist at the pleasure of the charter we give them. To quote an old comedy line of a father talking to his son, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out".

I was trying to be sarcastic.

Where in the constitution does it say a person gives up their rights when they attempt to engage in commerce?

I'm not aware that it does but that's not what you asked is it.

Corporations are not people my friend. Nor are they our friends, people.

They are groupings of people, given certain characteristics to allow them to do business as separate entities.

By what part of the Constitution do those people give up the right to petition their legislators solely because they are part of a corporation?

How does a collective have or get the power to override the individuals rights?

Each member of that collective should present their own case.