BIG!!!! Latest Gruber video will finish off Obamacare

[JoeB131]

only a short while ago healthcare was privately run in virtually every country in the world, and it worked just fine, so why would any intelligent person think going back to a tested successful system is insane?

Uh, no, actually it didnt' work just fine. That's why most countries switched to a single payer system. Of course, Germany has had one since 1888. The UK has had NIH since the 1950's.

Before that, people died young because they found that they ran out of money before they could get cured, that's why the rest of the world went to single payer.

 

[The Rabbi]

[
Okay, guy, in the REST OF THE INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD- healthcare is a public service, not a consumer commodity only deserved by the rich. Most people in the world would look at you as if you were insane if you said, 'Only the rich deserve good health care".

So we spend more than any other country in the world on Health Care (18% of our GDP compared to most other countries that spend 8-11%) and we get the worst results in terms of things like life expectancy and infant mortality.

The rest of the world piggybacks off of american medical innovation. When the govt regulates an industry, all innovation stops.

what a bunch of BS .. the rest of the world. LMAO

1. Adrenaline (epinephrine): Isolated and used to treat asthma by Jokichi Takamine (Japan)
2. Artificial heart: Paul Winchell (USA) holds the original patent for an implantable artificial heart. Oddly enough, he was also an accomplished ventriloquist who was the voice of Tigger in Disney’s Winnie the Pooh
3. Aspirin: Felix Hoffmann (Germany) – he also synthesized heroin
4. Beta blockers: Sir James Black (UK) made a number of contributions to understanding of cardiology for which he was awarded the Nobel Prize in 1988. Among his inventions was the first of a class of beta blocker drugs which among other things offers cardioprotection after a heart attack and reduce high blood pressure.
5. Bone marrow compatibility test: Barbara Bain (Canada)
6. Cardiac pacemaker: The idea for the pacemaker came from J A McWilliam in 1889 (UK). The first external pacemaker was designed and built by John Hopps (Canada). Earl Bakken (USA) developed the first externally wearable pacemaker. The first implantable pacemaker was designed by Rune Elmqvist and Ake Senning (Sweden).
7. CAT scan: Godfrey Hounsfield (UK), Alban Cormac (USA, born in South Africa)
8. Clinical trials: Austin Bradford Hill (UK)
9. Contact lenses: Leonardo Da Vinci (Italy)
10. Electrocardiogram (ECG or EKG) – Justin Ho (UK). The first portable EKG was developed by Taro Takemi (Japan)
11. Fetal monitor: K. Hammacher (Germany), Hewlett-Packard Co (USA, Germany)
12. Heart lung machine: John Heysham Gibbon (USA)
13. Heart transplant: Christiaan Barnard (South Africa) successfully transplanted the first human heart from one person to another
14. Helicobacter pylori:Barry Marshall and Robin Warren (Australia) discovered this bacterium which causes stomach ulcers
15. Hepatitis B vaccine: Baruch Blumberg, Irving Millman (USA)
16. HIV: Luc Montagnier (France) is credited for discovering HIV as the cause for AIDS
17. In vitro fertilization: John Rock (USA) extracted the first intact fertilized human egg. Carl Wood (Australia) pioneered the use of frozen embryos. Patrick Steptoe and Robert Edwards (UK) carried out the first successful procedure resulting in the birth of a healthy infant, Louise Brown.
18. Insulin: Isolated by Frederick Banting, Charles Best, J.J.R. Macleod, James Collip (Canada). They also pioneered the process for using insulin to treat diabetes
19. Medical ultrasound: Karl Theodore Dussik (Austria), Ian Donald (Scotland)
20. Nuclear medicine: Taro Tekemi (Japan)
21. Pasteurization: Developed by Louis Pasteur (France) as a method to kill germs. Pasteur also developed the germ theory of infection
22. Penicillin: Alexander Fleming (Scotland)
23. Polio vaccine: Jonas Salk, Albert Sabin (USA)
24. Smallpox vaccine: Although Edward Jenner (UK) is credited with developing the vaccine, his work was based on an existing innoculation technique brought back from Turkey by Lady Mary Montague. It was Jenner, however, that invented the term “vaccination”
25. Spray-on-skin: Fiona Wood (Australia) developed this for burn victims
26. Structure of DNA: Rosalind Franklin (UK), Francis Crick (UK), James Watson (USA)
27. Surgery: Abu Al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (Andalusia) is considered the father of modern surgery
28. Tuberculosis vaccine: Albert Calmette, Charles Guerin (France)
29. Viagra: Ian Osterloh (UK) – OK, not that significant, but interesting
30. Xray: Wilhelm Konrad Roentgen (Germany)

Some of those innovations are over a hundred years old.
Nothng posted disproves his point. The US is the leader in medical research and this administration is determined to change that.

 

[bripat9643]

only a short while ago healthcare was privately run in virtually every country in the world, and it worked just fine, so why would any intelligent person think going back to a tested successful system is insane?

Uh, no, actually it didnt' work just fine. That's why most countries switched to a single payer system. Of course, Germany has had one since 1888. The UK has had NIH since the 1950's.

Yes, it did work just fine. Those countries approve socialize medicine for the same reason Americans vote for Obama and the Dims: because a gang of sleazy demagogues lied to them relentlessly and conned them into the biggest boondoggle in history.

Before that, people died young because they found that they ran out of money before they could get cured, that's why the rest of the world went to single payer.

They died when they were young because of the primitive state of medical science. Take diabetes, for example. Until insulin was invented in 1921, there was nothing doctors could do to treat it. People just died from it. The vaccine for polio wasn't licensed until 1962.

 

[bripat9643]

[
Okay, guy, in the REST OF THE INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD- healthcare is a public service, not a consumer commodity only deserved by the rich. Most people in the world would look at you as if you were insane if you said, 'Only the rich deserve good health care".

So we spend more than any other country in the world on Health Care (18% of our GDP compared to most other countries that spend 8-11%) and we get the worst results in terms of things like life expectancy and infant mortality.

The rest of the world piggybacks off of american medical innovation. When the govt regulates an industry, all innovation stops.

what a bunch of BS .. the rest of the world. LMAO

1. Adrenaline (epinephrine): Isolated and used to treat asthma by Jokichi Takamine (Japan)
2. Artificial heart: Paul Winchell (USA) holds the original patent for an implantable artificial heart. Oddly enough, he was also an accomplished ventriloquist who was the voice of Tigger in Disney’s Winnie the Pooh
3. Aspirin: Felix Hoffmann (Germany) – he also synthesized heroin
4. Beta blockers: Sir James Black (UK) made a number of contributions to understanding of cardiology for which he was awarded the Nobel Prize in 1988. Among his inventions was the first of a class of beta blocker drugs which among other things offers cardioprotection after a heart attack and reduce high blood pressure.
5. Bone marrow compatibility test: Barbara Bain (Canada)
6. Cardiac pacemaker: The idea for the pacemaker came from J A McWilliam in 1889 (UK). The first external pacemaker was designed and built by John Hopps (Canada). Earl Bakken (USA) developed the first externally wearable pacemaker. The first implantable pacemaker was designed by Rune Elmqvist and Ake Senning (Sweden).
7. CAT scan: Godfrey Hounsfield (UK), Alban Cormac (USA, born in South Africa)
8. Clinical trials: Austin Bradford Hill (UK)
9. Contact lenses: Leonardo Da Vinci (Italy)
10. Electrocardiogram (ECG or EKG) – Justin Ho (UK). The first portable EKG was developed by Taro Takemi (Japan)
11. Fetal monitor: K. Hammacher (Germany), Hewlett-Packard Co (USA, Germany)
12. Heart lung machine: John Heysham Gibbon (USA)
13. Heart transplant: Christiaan Barnard (South Africa) successfully transplanted the first human heart from one person to another
14. Helicobacter pylori:Barry Marshall and Robin Warren (Australia) discovered this bacterium which causes stomach ulcers
15. Hepatitis B vaccine: Baruch Blumberg, Irving Millman (USA)
16. HIV: Luc Montagnier (France) is credited for discovering HIV as the cause for AIDS
17. In vitro fertilization: John Rock (USA) extracted the first intact fertilized human egg. Carl Wood (Australia) pioneered the use of frozen embryos. Patrick Steptoe and Robert Edwards (UK) carried out the first successful procedure resulting in the birth of a healthy infant, Louise Brown.
18. Insulin: Isolated by Frederick Banting, Charles Best, J.J.R. Macleod, James Collip (Canada). They also pioneered the process for using insulin to treat diabetes
19. Medical ultrasound: Karl Theodore Dussik (Austria), Ian Donald (Scotland)
20. Nuclear medicine: Taro Tekemi (Japan)
21. Pasteurization: Developed by Louis Pasteur (France) as a method to kill germs. Pasteur also developed the germ theory of infection
22. Penicillin: Alexander Fleming (Scotland)
23. Polio vaccine: Jonas Salk, Albert Sabin (USA)
24. Smallpox vaccine: Although Edward Jenner (UK) is credited with developing the vaccine, his work was based on an existing innoculation technique brought back from Turkey by Lady Mary Montague. It was Jenner, however, that invented the term “vaccination”
25. Spray-on-skin: Fiona Wood (Australia) developed this for burn victims
26. Structure of DNA: Rosalind Franklin (UK), Francis Crick (UK), James Watson (USA)
27. Surgery: Abu Al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (Andalusia) is considered the father of modern surgery
28. Tuberculosis vaccine: Albert Calmette, Charles Guerin (France)
29. Viagra: Ian Osterloh (UK) – OK, not that significant, but interesting
30. Xray: Wilhelm Konrad Roentgen (Germany)

Some of those innovations are over a hundred years old.
Nothng posted disproves his point. The US is the leader in medical research and this administration is determined to change that.

Most of them are over 50 years old, which puts them before the age of socialized medicine.

 

[RKMBrown]

If you own something worth protecting like a house you pay taxes on it. When the fire or police come out you already paid for it. When you need a doctor to help you and YOU HAVE NOT PAID FOR HIM TO WORK ON YOU, HE'S NOT YOUR EFFING SLAVE YOU COMMUNIST POS.

Okay, but here's the point. The Fire Department has to treat a fire at my Condo the same way they have to treat a fire at the million dollar mansions that are a few miles away from me. And that's the way it should be. That's their job.

As for Doctor's being "slaves", the fact is he's going to get paid for his services. The only question is, what's the most effective way to do that. A single payer system that covers everyone, or a multi-payer system where that doctor h as to employ three clerks to sort out all the insurance plans, and the CEO's of those plans get paid 8 figure salaries for finding ways to NOT pay that doctor.

Just because you rent a condo does not mean that he condo owner does not pay taxes on the condominium.

As for your 'single' payer bullshit.. yeah ok so instead of making the doctor a slave you want to force me to pay for your health care... you want to make me your slave so you can have free health care. Eff you.

 

[JoeB131]

Some of those innovations are over a hundred years old.
Nothng posted disproves his point. The US is the leader in medical research and this administration is determined to change that.

so what you are sa ying is that scientists will only do medical innovation if some investor is going to make a shitload of money off of it?

 

[JoeB131]

Just because you rent a condo does not mean that he condo owner does not pay taxes on the condominium.

Actually, I own the condo, and I'm paying taxes for it. But here's the thing. the Fire Department has to treat my condo fire just as seriously as they treat the fire for the rich douchebag's mansion a mile down the way. And that's the way health care should work as well.

As for your 'single' payer bullshit.. yeah ok so instead of making the doctor a slave you want to force me to pay for your health care... you want to make me your slave so you can have free health care. Eff you.

Here's the thing, If I get sick this year and you don't, then you are ALREADY paying my health care. If you are paying for an insurance policy and you don't get sick, then you are paying for all the folks who did. Except that some of that money will end up going into the huge salaries of guys like Ed Hanaway of Cigna, who was paid 9 figures when he retired, but put into place a policy where people like Nataline Sarkisyan were denied operations Cigna deemed "experimental".

So essentially, I'm not making you a slave. Ed Hanaway is.

I just think that if you get rid of investors and CEO's and stock market speculation and you just make it a simple transaction of taxpayers pay in and patients get paid out, it would probably be a lot more effective.

As the Germans, Japanese, Brits, Canadians, French, etc. have already figured out.

But Americans... we're a little dopey.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, it did work just fine. Those countries approve socialize medicine for the same reason Americans vote for Obama and the Dims: because a gang of sleazy demagogues lied to them relentlessly and conned them into the biggest boondoggle in history.

and today, they live longer than Americans, spend less, have less medical bankruptcy and debt, have lower infant mortality rates, etc.

Yeah, they went for a scam where they got a better result. What a bunch of suckers.

 

[The Rabbi]

Some of those innovations are over a hundred years old.
Nothng posted disproves his point. The US is the leader in medical research and this administration is determined to change that.

so what you are sa ying is that scientists will only do medical innovation if some investor is going to make a shitload of money off of it?

Those things generally follow one another, yes. If there's no money to be made then it wont.

 

[JoeB131]

Those things generally follow one another, yes. If there's no money to be made then it wont.

Yet, oddly, Jonas Salk gave away the vaccine for polio for free.

******* communist.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

so what you are sa ying is that scientists will only do medical innovation if some investor is going to make a shitload of money off of it?

Of course. That's capitalism and it works beautifully. Once govt takes over health care completely we will be stuck forever with the health care of that day.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course. That's capitalism and it works beautifully. Once govt takes over health care completely we will be stuck forever with the health care of that day.

exccept that the "socialist" medical systems have made as many advances as the capitalist one...

So... um.. no.

Scientists will still work hard to make discoveries. IT's what they do for the love of science.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[The Rabbi]

Those things generally follow one another, yes. If there's no money to be made then it wont.

Yet, oddly, Jonas Salk gave away the vaccine for polio for free.

******* communist.

Because most people like to work for free. Like you, right? You didnt take a penny for cleaining those spittoons, did you?

 

[RKMBrown]

Just because you rent a condo does not mean that he condo owner does not pay taxes on the condominium.

Actually, I own the condo, and I'm paying taxes for it. But here's the thing. the Fire Department has to treat my condo fire just as seriously as they treat the fire for the rich douchebag's mansion a mile down the way. And that's the way health care should work as well.

As for your 'single' payer bullshit.. yeah ok so instead of making the doctor a slave you want to force me to pay for your health care... you want to make me your slave so you can have free health care. Eff you.

Here's the thing, If I get sick this year and you don't, then you are ALREADY paying my health care. If you are paying for an insurance policy and you don't get sick, then you are paying for all the folks who did. Except that some of that money will end up going into the huge salaries of guys like Ed Hanaway of Cigna, who was paid 9 figures when he retired, but put into place a policy where people like Nataline Sarkisyan were denied operations Cigna deemed "experimental".

So essentially, I'm not making you a slave. Ed Hanaway is.

I just think that if you get rid of investors and CEO's and stock market speculation and you just make it a simple transaction of taxpayers pay in and patients get paid out, it would probably be a lot more effective.

As the Germans, Japanese, Brits, Canadians, French, etc. have already figured out.

But Americans... we're a little dopey.

You are confused.

ACA health care is taxpayer funded. My health care is not. But I get to fund ACA health care plans with my income. You see the difference? Further when someone is allowed to force their way on onto my health care plan with pre-existing conditions, I get screwed up the ass, because I have to pay for their lack of foresight.

As for your fire deflection.. I'm glad you admit you were wrong to compare that.

 

[RKMBrown]

Of course. That's capitalism and it works beautifully. Once govt takes over health care completely we will be stuck forever with the health care of that day.

exccept that the "socialist" medical systems have made as many advances as the capitalist one...

So... um.. no.

Scientists will still work hard to make discoveries. IT's what they do for the love of science.

ROFL MARXIST SAYS CAPITALISM SUCKS PEOPLE WILL WORK JUST AS HARD FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER OTHER THAN THE FUN OF IT... ROFL

 

[JoeB131]

Because most people like to work for free. Like you, right? You didnt take a penny for cleaining those spittoons, did you?

I think there's a major difference between working for a fair salary, and getting obscene profits, usually off the work someone else did.

Those big pharma profits don't go to the scientists who actually did the work, and that's the problem.

 

[JoeB131]

You are confused.

ACA health care is taxpayer funded. My health care is not. But I get to fund ACA health care plans with my income. You see the difference? Further when someone is allowed to force their way on onto my health care plan with pre-existing conditions, I get screwed up the ass, because I have to pay for their lack of foresight.

As for your fire deflection.. I'm glad you admit you were wrong to compare that.

No confusion at all, dumbass. Your health insurance plan is subsidized by the government, you aren't taxed on it, and neither is your company, and there are a shitloads of allowances that keep these plans afloat. So again, if you didn't get sick this year, you are subsidizing someone else. If you did get sick, someone else is subsidizing you.

And obviously, you didn't get my point on the fire department, I'm starting to think you are a little stupid. Or maybe just a Libertarian.

 

[RKMBrown]

You are confused.

ACA health care is taxpayer funded. My health care is not. But I get to fund ACA health care plans with my income. You see the difference? Further when someone is allowed to force their way on onto my health care plan with pre-existing conditions, I get screwed up the ass, because I have to pay for their lack of foresight.

As for your fire deflection.. I'm glad you admit you were wrong to compare that.

No confusion at all, dumbass. Your health insurance plan is subsidized by the government, you aren't taxed on it, and neither is your company, and there are a shitloads of allowances that keep these plans afloat. So again, if you didn't get sick this year, you are subsidizing someone else. If you did get sick, someone else is subsidizing you.

And obviously, you didn't get my point on the fire department, I'm starting to think you are a little stupid. Or maybe just a Libertarian.

My health insurance is not subsidized by government. I take my income after taxes and pay for my health insurance premiums, which are not tax deductible. You are a stupid, lying POS.

I got your point on the fire department you think we need federal guild-lines to force the states, counties, and cities to pay their employees federally mandated wages. It's moronic.

 

[The Rabbi]

Because most people like to work for free. Like you, right? You didnt take a penny for cleaining those spittoons, did you?

I think there's a major difference between working for a fair salary, and getting obscene profits, usually off the work someone else did.

Those big pharma profits don't go to the scientists who actually did the work, and that's the problem.

Scientists working for drug companies don't get salaries and benefits? Wow, who knew?