Biden's ATF raids Amish dairy farmer, seizes firearm stash in potential 'rogue gun retailer' bust

[Blues Man]

How do they determine a private seller from a dealer?

That's why they're arresting him. They believe he was dealing guns.

They had no grounds since there is no hard rule that defines how many gun sales are needed to reach the threshold of being a dealer.

If there is no line to cross then there is no crime.

 

[Blues Man]

How do they determine a private seller from a dealer?

That's why they're arresting him. They believe he was dealing guns.

There are hard fast rules on the limits for private alcohol production.

Policy Research

NCSL’s experts are here to answer your questions and give you unbiased, comprehensive information as soon as you need it on issues facing state legislatures. We answer more than 20,000 requests for information a year.

www.ncsl.org

n 1978, Congress enacted Public Law 95-458 (H.R. 1337), amending the Internal Revenue Code to allow any adult to produce beer, without the payment of tax, for personal or family use. The beer produced per household may not exceed: (1) 200 gallons per calendar year if there are two or more adults residing in the household, or (2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is only one adult residing in the household. Under the 27 C.F.R. §25.206, homemade beer for personal or family use may be removed from the premises where made for organized affairs, exhibitions or competitions such as homemaker's contests, tastings or judging. Under 27 C.F.R. 24.75, adults may produce wine for personal or family use in the same amount as allowed for beer.

This is an easily enforced rule because it is clearly stated.

It would be a simple matter to have the same clearly written rule for private gun sales. But where there is ambiguity in the law the accused is the one who is given the benefit of the doubt because an ambiguous law cannot be enforced in a fear and just manner.

 

[miketx]

so everyone can have illegal guns? that is one of the problems with 2nd adm defenders....illegal is illegal be it involving guns or not...

Lol, just make up some shit, good little jack boot.

 

[Otis Mayfield]

They had no grounds since there is no hard rule that defines how many gun sales are needed to reach the threshold of being a dealer.

If there is no line to cross then there is no crime.

If you sell a hundred guns a month, you're obviously a dealer.

If you sell 20, maybe.

 

[Blues Man]

If you sell a hundred guns a month, you're obviously a dealer.

If you sell 20, maybe.

And where in the law does it say that? Nowhere.

So this guy didn;t break any laws

 

[Otis Mayfield]

And where in the law does it say that? Nowhere.

So this guy didn;t break any laws

How many guns can i sell before a FFL is needed?

www.defensivecarry.com

These guys say it's "intent."

So, if you sell 100 guns a month, you intend to make a profit and it's a business which makes you a dealer.

I guess it comes down to what the judge says.

 

[Blues Man]

How many guns can i sell before a FFL is needed?

www.defensivecarry.com

These guys say it's "intent."

So, if you sell 100 guns a month, you intend to make a profit and it's a business which makes you a dealer.

I guess it comes down to what the judge says.

And yet the law does not have a definition or a hard limit of guns that needs to be sold.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

so everyone can have illegal guns? that is one of the problems with 2nd adm defenders....illegal is illegal be it involving guns or not...

Constitutionally there's no such thing as an illegal gun. Gun control laws are illegal. Illegal laws are illegal, no matter how you justify them.

 

[Colin norris]

The ATF is but one of four federal bureaucracies that need to be terminated in my opinion.

Why? Because they exposed a bunch of nut cases hiding guns? I hope it's you next.

 

[woodwork201]

I've thought about selling my collection in another 10 years or so. None of my kids are in a position in life to give them the proper respect, appreciation, and protection. They're all good kids but aren't politically astute - my failure.

I don't have 600 guns but I have more than the 6 that one of the leftists here attributed to Rambo-types (I'm not one as clearly demonstrated by my more-than-6 guns).

I wonder if I risk spending years in prison for selling my own collection. Maybe, when the time comes, I'll just give them away to a local gun club for use in fundraisers.

 

[woodwork201]

There are no illegal guns - just illegal possession.
What was illegal about the guns confiscated by the ATF?

How is that possible - one of the two statements true and the other false?

 

[westwall]

There was nothing mentioned that any of the guns confiscated were "illegal".

Currently there is no requirement for anyone to be licensed to sell guns. In fact there is no legal definition of what constitutes being a gun retailer.

If the ATF cannot point to any statute that specifies how many guns a person can buy or sell without a FFL then this guy is going to be in the clear.

That is not true. If you are actively buying and selling guns you need to have a Federal Firearms License. If you sell the occasional gun, 2 or 3 a year, you don't.

Any more than that though and you must obtain a license.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The ATF is but one of four federal bureaucracies that need to be terminated in my opinion.

ATF = Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms.

The very name contains three reasons why this agencies very existence is illegal and unconstitutional.

Per the Tenth Amendment, the federal government only has those powers which the Constitution specifically delegates thereto.

Briefly, alcohol fell under federal powers, with the passage of the Eighteenth Amendment. The Twenty-First Amendment ended this, so now, the federals government has no legitimate jurisdiction regarding alcohol.

The federal government has never had any legitimate jurisdiction regrading tobacco.

And the Second Amendment explicitly denies any such power regarding firearms.

The BATF exists for no other purpose than to violate the Constitution.

 

[Blues Man]

That is not true. If you are actively buying and selling guns you need to have a Federal Firearms License. If you sell the occasional gun, 2 or 3 a year, you don't.

Any more than that though and you must obtain a license.

There is no legal definition of how many guns one must buy and sell to be considered a dealer.

There is no definition of how much profit is needed to say if you are selling guns for profit.

Legal ambiguity always favors the accused.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

States need to take back the 2A and declare machine guns legal.

 

[westwall]

There is no legal definition of how many guns one must buy and sell to be considered a dealer.

There is no definition of how much profit is needed to say if you are selling guns for profit.

Legal ambiguity always favors the accused.

That is true, but go to a bunch of gun shows and buy and sell and you will see how quick they stop by to tell you to get a license.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Damn Amish!

Two weeks ago, agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives stormed Reuben King's Leacock Township property, seizing an untold number of firearms as part of an ongoing investigation into the farmer's alleged gun retail business.

“ATF agents, as part of an ongoing investigation, executed an enforcement operation at the Cattail Foundry and seized evidence,” on Jan. 12, ATF spokesperson Robert Cucinotta announced Monday, according to Lancaster Online.

So far, no arrests have been made, and no charges have been filed in the case, as the ATF stays mum about the details.

Biden's ATF raids Amish dairy farmer, seizes firearm stash in potential 'rogue gun retailer' bust

Unreliable rightwing source.

 

[hadit]

If you sell a hundred guns a month, you're obviously a dealer.

If you sell 20, maybe.

And "maybe" is the problem. If the law isn't written clearly, it gets tossed, as we saw in the Rittenhouse case where they couldn't agree if him having the gun was illegal or not.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Unreliable rightwing source.

^^^^
Well-known left-wing liar.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

States need to take back the 2A and declare machine guns legal.

Machine guns are legal in all but 17 states.