Biden to cancel the Keystone pipeline via executive action on 1st day, Trudeau already complaining, conservatives like Ann Coulter already pouncing!

WinterBorn

Diamond Member
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
38,958
Reaction score
8,785
Points
1,340
Location
Atlanta
Killed jobs? The pipeline would create around 2,000 jobs for 2 years. After that it will be manned by around 35 workers. All to move oil to the Gulf to be shipped to China. American refineries don't want the sludge oil as long as they have regular crude to refine.

Before the pipeline the oil was being shipped via truck and rail. How many truckers, truck stop workers, mechanics, restaurant workers ect were put out of work by the pipeline? Far more than the 35 permanent workers the pipeline will employ.

The pipeline was not about creating jobs at all. It was about lowering the costs for the oil companies.
The last time I was involved in a Pipeline Construction (the supply end) it was the same crew that would build and then move further down the line and build connecting pipes until the job was completed. Those 2000 jobs are fantasy. The Pipeline Builders won't be from the local community and when that section of pipe is completed, they move on. Most of their wages don't stay in the community. It's sent to their home bases for their families. And MOST of the workers will be married.

Each time, there will be a small boost in a local economy for just a short period of time. When the workers move on down the line, those local service jobs disappear and reappear at the next location. Any community basing their economy on the building of the pipeline will end up in serious trouble. They will go from boom to bust very quickly.

The Pipeline benefits Canada Government and the Koch Brothers (Industries) and other investors. Any US Politician that is touting this fantasy about how many jobs and the economic boon is getting money from the Koch Industries (Brothers).
We must never build anything that will only result in a temporary boost, eh?
No. We must never scream about costing people their jobs, when the project they were working on was going to cost thousands of people their jobs. Plus it is a matter of temporary jobs or permanent jobs.
Two guys driving a train of oil tankers, is not "costing thousands of people their jobs".

There was a huge demand for this pipeline for a reason. By canceling this project, I promise you all the companies in Canada that are producing the oil that these pipelines were needed for, are now looking at alternatives.

If they didn't need the Keystone XL, they would not have funded it to begin with.

So what happens when they start shipping it to the coast, putting it on tankers, and sending it to China?

How many temporary or permanent jobs will be 'saved' then?


China is actively looking to try and take over the oil refining market, and this action by Biden may have been the exact opening they needed. China would likely fund a pipeline to the coast entirely, just to get their stab into the north American market.

Canceling this pipeline was a terrible terrible move. I would say, that unless this is fixed, and quickly... I think we will see some bad long term effects from this bad executive order.
The construction of the new pipeline is employing around 2,000 workers. For 2 years. After that, there will be 35 people hired to monitor the pipeline.

The oil is currently moved by train and by trucks. I would bet it would not be long before you equal the 2,000 jobs. Because the trains and trucks will still be rolling in 2 years, 5 years or even 10 years.

Oh, and the 2 guys? There are also the people who maintain the trains.
 

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
64,688
Reaction score
12,821
Points
2,180
Location
Chicago
Killed jobs? The pipeline would create around 2,000 jobs for 2 years. After that it will be manned by around 35 workers. All to move oil to the Gulf to be shipped to China. American refineries don't want the sludge oil as long as they have regular crude to refine.

Before the pipeline the oil was being shipped via truck and rail. How many truckers, truck stop workers, mechanics, restaurant workers ect were put out of work by the pipeline? Far more than the 35 permanent workers the pipeline will employ.

The pipeline was not about creating jobs at all. It was about lowering the costs for the oil companies.
The last time I was involved in a Pipeline Construction (the supply end) it was the same crew that would build and then move further down the line and build connecting pipes until the job was completed. Those 2000 jobs are fantasy. The Pipeline Builders won't be from the local community and when that section of pipe is completed, they move on. Most of their wages don't stay in the community. It's sent to their home bases for their families. And MOST of the workers will be married.

Each time, there will be a small boost in a local economy for just a short period of time. When the workers move on down the line, those local service jobs disappear and reappear at the next location. Any community basing their economy on the building of the pipeline will end up in serious trouble. They will go from boom to bust very quickly.

The Pipeline benefits Canada Government and the Koch Brothers (Industries) and other investors. Any US Politician that is touting this fantasy about how many jobs and the economic boon is getting money from the Koch Industries (Brothers).
We must never build anything that will only result in a temporary boost, eh?
No. We must never scream about costing people their jobs, when the project they were working on was going to cost thousands of people their jobs. Plus it is a matter of temporary jobs or permanent jobs.
Two guys driving a train of oil tankers, is not "costing thousands of people their jobs".

There was a huge demand for this pipeline for a reason. By canceling this project, I promise you all the companies in Canada that are producing the oil that these pipelines were needed for, are now looking at alternatives.

If they didn't need the Keystone XL, they would not have funded it to begin with.

So what happens when they start shipping it to the coast, putting it on tankers, and sending it to China?

How many temporary or permanent jobs will be 'saved' then?


China is actively looking to try and take over the oil refining market, and this action by Biden may have been the exact opening they needed. China would likely fund a pipeline to the coast entirely, just to get their stab into the north American market.

Canceling this pipeline was a terrible terrible move. I would say, that unless this is fixed, and quickly... I think we will see some bad long term effects from this bad executive order.
The construction of the new pipeline is employing around 2,000 workers. For 2 years. After that, there will be 35 people hired to monitor the pipeline.

The oil is currently moved by train and by trucks. I would bet it would not be long before you equal the 2,000 jobs. Because the trains and trucks will still be rolling in 2 years, 5 years or even 10 years.

Oh, and the 2 guys? There are also the people who maintain the trains.

The construction of the new pipeline is employing around 2,000 workers. For 2 years. After that, there will be 35 people hired to monitor the pipeline.


Yup.
And US oil producers in the Bakken will also be able to move oil in a safer and cheaper manner.
So 2,000 construction jobs shouldn't be created if they don't last forever?

The oil is currently moved by train and by trucks.

Mostly trains.

I would bet it would not be long before you equal the 2,000 jobs.


So what?

Oh, and the 2 guys? There are also the people who maintain the trains.

And people who maintain the pipelines
 

Daryl Hunt

Your Worst Nightmare
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
22,607
Reaction score
4,595
Points
290
Location
O.D. (Stands for Out Dere
Killed jobs? The pipeline would create around 2,000 jobs for 2 years. After that it will be manned by around 35 workers. All to move oil to the Gulf to be shipped to China. American refineries don't want the sludge oil as long as they have regular crude to refine.

Before the pipeline the oil was being shipped via truck and rail. How many truckers, truck stop workers, mechanics, restaurant workers ect were put out of work by the pipeline? Far more than the 35 permanent workers the pipeline will employ.

The pipeline was not about creating jobs at all. It was about lowering the costs for the oil companies.
The last time I was involved in a Pipeline Construction (the supply end) it was the same crew that would build and then move further down the line and build connecting pipes until the job was completed. Those 2000 jobs are fantasy. The Pipeline Builders won't be from the local community and when that section of pipe is completed, they move on. Most of their wages don't stay in the community. It's sent to their home bases for their families. And MOST of the workers will be married.

Each time, there will be a small boost in a local economy for just a short period of time. When the workers move on down the line, those local service jobs disappear and reappear at the next location. Any community basing their economy on the building of the pipeline will end up in serious trouble. They will go from boom to bust very quickly.

The Pipeline benefits Canada Government and the Koch Brothers (Industries) and other investors. Any US Politician that is touting this fantasy about how many jobs and the economic boon is getting money from the Koch Industries (Brothers).
We must never build anything that will only result in a temporary boost, eh?
No. We must never scream about costing people their jobs, when the project they were working on was going to cost thousands of people their jobs. Plus it is a matter of temporary jobs or permanent jobs.
We must never do anything that's safer or more efficient, because those 2 guys on the 100-car oil trains........
If you want to talk safety, that is fine. But so far the screaming has been about jobs.

Oh, as as far as safety goes, in the 10 years the current Keystone Pipeline has been operating, there have been 14 spills, including one that dumped 407,000 gals of sludgy tar sands crude on farmland.
What do you expect. The companies that the Kochs control find it's cheaper to pay the fines than follow safety. They are the highest fined oil pipeline in existance.
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
20,966
Reaction score
6,205
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
Killed jobs? The pipeline would create around 2,000 jobs for 2 years. After that it will be manned by around 35 workers. All to move oil to the Gulf to be shipped to China. American refineries don't want the sludge oil as long as they have regular crude to refine.

Before the pipeline the oil was being shipped via truck and rail. How many truckers, truck stop workers, mechanics, restaurant workers ect were put out of work by the pipeline? Far more than the 35 permanent workers the pipeline will employ.

The pipeline was not about creating jobs at all. It was about lowering the costs for the oil companies.
The last time I was involved in a Pipeline Construction (the supply end) it was the same crew that would build and then move further down the line and build connecting pipes until the job was completed. Those 2000 jobs are fantasy. The Pipeline Builders won't be from the local community and when that section of pipe is completed, they move on. Most of their wages don't stay in the community. It's sent to their home bases for their families. And MOST of the workers will be married.

Each time, there will be a small boost in a local economy for just a short period of time. When the workers move on down the line, those local service jobs disappear and reappear at the next location. Any community basing their economy on the building of the pipeline will end up in serious trouble. They will go from boom to bust very quickly.

The Pipeline benefits Canada Government and the Koch Brothers (Industries) and other investors. Any US Politician that is touting this fantasy about how many jobs and the economic boon is getting money from the Koch Industries (Brothers).
We must never build anything that will only result in a temporary boost, eh?
No. We must never scream about costing people their jobs, when the project they were working on was going to cost thousands of people their jobs. Plus it is a matter of temporary jobs or permanent jobs.
Two guys driving a train of oil tankers, is not "costing thousands of people their jobs".

There was a huge demand for this pipeline for a reason. By canceling this project, I promise you all the companies in Canada that are producing the oil that these pipelines were needed for, are now looking at alternatives.

If they didn't need the Keystone XL, they would not have funded it to begin with.

So what happens when they start shipping it to the coast, putting it on tankers, and sending it to China?

How many temporary or permanent jobs will be 'saved' then?


China is actively looking to try and take over the oil refining market, and this action by Biden may have been the exact opening they needed. China would likely fund a pipeline to the coast entirely, just to get their stab into the north American market.

Canceling this pipeline was a terrible terrible move. I would say, that unless this is fixed, and quickly... I think we will see some bad long term effects from this bad executive order.
The construction of the new pipeline is employing around 2,000 workers. For 2 years. After that, there will be 35 people hired to monitor the pipeline.

The oil is currently moved by train and by trucks. I would bet it would not be long before you equal the 2,000 jobs. Because the trains and trucks will still be rolling in 2 years, 5 years or even 10 years.

Oh, and the 2 guys? There are also the people who maintain the trains.
Again... the whole reason they were creating the Keystone XL, is because they obviously needed it.

You canceling that, will not result in companies just going "ok, well I guess we will keep doing it this way".

I guarantee you that they are now investigating alternatives. One alternative is to move the oil to the coast, and float it to China.

You can't stop progress. Progress is going to happen whether it benefits you or not. You can either have a Keystone XL pipeline, or you can have them find someone else to take the oil.

But this idea that you are going to freeze progress in time, and things will stay the way they are right now, forever.... is not going to happen.

Oh, and the 2 guys? There are also the people who maintain the trains.

Since the tracks already exist, and are already maintained, and I highly doubt that those train lines are only used exclusively by oil tankers.... there is no reason to assume those jobs will be eliminated.

In fact, I doubt the two people running the train would lose their jobs either. There is a massive amount of goods that are transported by train. They likely would just be reassigned to new routes.
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
20,966
Reaction score
6,205
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
Killed jobs? The pipeline would create around 2,000 jobs for 2 years. After that it will be manned by around 35 workers. All to move oil to the Gulf to be shipped to China. American refineries don't want the sludge oil as long as they have regular crude to refine.

Before the pipeline the oil was being shipped via truck and rail. How many truckers, truck stop workers, mechanics, restaurant workers ect were put out of work by the pipeline? Far more than the 35 permanent workers the pipeline will employ.

The pipeline was not about creating jobs at all. It was about lowering the costs for the oil companies.
The last time I was involved in a Pipeline Construction (the supply end) it was the same crew that would build and then move further down the line and build connecting pipes until the job was completed. Those 2000 jobs are fantasy. The Pipeline Builders won't be from the local community and when that section of pipe is completed, they move on. Most of their wages don't stay in the community. It's sent to their home bases for their families. And MOST of the workers will be married.

Each time, there will be a small boost in a local economy for just a short period of time. When the workers move on down the line, those local service jobs disappear and reappear at the next location. Any community basing their economy on the building of the pipeline will end up in serious trouble. They will go from boom to bust very quickly.

The Pipeline benefits Canada Government and the Koch Brothers (Industries) and other investors. Any US Politician that is touting this fantasy about how many jobs and the economic boon is getting money from the Koch Industries (Brothers).
We must never build anything that will only result in a temporary boost, eh?
No. We must never scream about costing people their jobs, when the project they were working on was going to cost thousands of people their jobs. Plus it is a matter of temporary jobs or permanent jobs.
Two guys driving a train of oil tankers, is not "costing thousands of people their jobs".

There was a huge demand for this pipeline for a reason. By canceling this project, I promise you all the companies in Canada that are producing the oil that these pipelines were needed for, are now looking at alternatives.

If they didn't need the Keystone XL, they would not have funded it to begin with.

So what happens when they start shipping it to the coast, putting it on tankers, and sending it to China?

How many temporary or permanent jobs will be 'saved' then?


China is actively looking to try and take over the oil refining market, and this action by Biden may have been the exact opening they needed. China would likely fund a pipeline to the coast entirely, just to get their stab into the north American market.

Canceling this pipeline was a terrible terrible move. I would say, that unless this is fixed, and quickly... I think we will see some bad long term effects from this bad executive order.
The construction of the new pipeline is employing around 2,000 workers. For 2 years. After that, there will be 35 people hired to monitor the pipeline.

The oil is currently moved by train and by trucks. I would bet it would not be long before you equal the 2,000 jobs. Because the trains and trucks will still be rolling in 2 years, 5 years or even 10 years.

Oh, and the 2 guys? There are also the people who maintain the trains.
The construction of the new pipeline is employing around 2,000 workers. For 2 years. After that, there will be 35 people hired to monitor the pipeline.

Yup.
And US oil producers in the Bakken will also be able to move oil in a safer and cheaper manner.
So 2,000 construction jobs shouldn't be created if they don't last forever?

The oil is currently moved by train and by trucks.

Mostly trains.

I would bet it would not be long before you equal the 2,000 jobs.

So what?

Oh, and the 2 guys? There are also the people who maintain the trains.

And people who maintain the pipelines
Oh, and the 2 guys? There are also the people who maintain the trains.

"And people who maintain the pipelines"

That's a good point. While they might only have several dozen people employed monitoring the pipeline, that doesn't include people who actually maintain the pipeline.

Just like there are only a few people driving the train, doesn't include people who maintain the track.

So I doubt the numbers of jobs are all that different. What is different is that oil is transported more safely, with less hazards or risk.

And ironically for left-wingers who want to reduce oil usage as much as possible, the pipeline would use electricity to pump the oil, whereas both train or truck would use hundreds of thousands of gallons of diesel fuel to move.
 
OP
basquebromance

basquebromance

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
64,216
Reaction score
10,430
Points
2,070
Manchin has asked President Biden to reconsider cancelling Keystone
 
OP
basquebromance

basquebromance

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
64,216
Reaction score
10,430
Points
2,070
can we build the Keystone Pipeline if we add Hunter Biden to the board?
 
OP
basquebromance

basquebromance

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
64,216
Reaction score
10,430
Points
2,070
why isn't the media covering laid off Keystone workers? or any other Biden scandal? you have the biggest megaphone in the history of the world. USE IT!
 

asaratis

Uppity Senior Citizen
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
15,830
Reaction score
4,449
Points
280
Location
Stockbridge
KEYSTONE PIPELINE VS TRAIN VS SHIPS , TO MOVE OIL
Someone with a smart brain spent time putting some numbers together:
1 Train has 100 cars, 2 engines and weighs 27,240,000 LBS.
1 Train carries 3,000,000 gallons of oil.
1 train uses 55.5 gallons of diesel per mile.
It takes 119,000 gallons of diesel to go 2150 miles from Hardidsy, AB to Freeport, TX.
Keystone pipeline was to deliver 34,860,000 gallons of oil per day.
It would take 12 trains and 1,428,000 gallons of diesel to deliver that amount. PER DAY!
521,220,000 gallons of diesel per year.
The oil will still go to market with or without the pipeline. By stopping the pipeline billions of gallons of diesel will be wasted and pollute needlessly. Does that make you feel good?
Stop the Tar Sands all together? Then we must ship the oil from the overseas sandbox.
1 large oil tanker can haul 120,000,000 gallons of oil
1 boat takes 15 days to float across the Atlantic.
1 boat uses 63,000 gallons of fuel PER DAY, that is about 1 million gallons of the most polluting type fuel in the world PER TRIP.*(See below)
Or take 3.5 days of Keystone Pipeline to move the same amount of oil with a fraction of the pollution.
*In international waters ship emissions remains one of the least regulated parts of our global transportation system. The fuel used in ships is waste oil, basically what is left over after the crude oil refining process. It is the same as asphalt and is so thick that when cold it can be walked upon . It's the cheapest and most polluting fuel available and the world's 90,000 ships chew through an astonishing 7.29 million barrels of it each day, or more than 84% of all exported oil production from Saudi Arabia.
Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world. There are 760 million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599 tons of Sulphur Oxides (SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn approx 370 million tons of fuel per year emitting 20 million tons of Sulphur Oxides. That equates to 260 times more Sulphur Oxides being emitted by ships than the worlds entire car fleet. One large ship alone can generate approx 5,200 tonnes of sulphur oxide pollution in a year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as the worlds 760 million cars.
Eliminate all gas consuming cars and diesel vehicles?
Worldwide car gas consumption is 403,583,712,000 gallons a year. That's billion.
Worldwide oil consumption is 1,500,000,000,000 gallons a year. That's trillion.
It takes 2.15 gallons of oil to make 1 gallon of car gas and .6 gal of diesel.
So it takes 867,704,980,800 gallons of oil to run the worlds cars, most diesel vehilces for a year and some ships.
That leaves 632,295,019,200 gallons of oil for other uses.
Passenger vehicles are only a very small percentage of the problem. If emissions are the problem why not just capture them at the exhaust? Create an industry to clean exhaust instead of crushing and entire industry and building a complete untested, replacement industry?
So are we willing to dramatically increase mining to get all the minerals necessary to make all these batteries and electric motors. Mining is way worse for the environment than oil extraction. Killing Keystone was glibly decided by emotional idiots!
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top