*Biden Sent The Goons To Mar-Largo*

[BackAgain]

Clearly you’re just descending into trolling.

Not clear and not true. I just don’t suffer you fools gladly. If you want to have a coherent reasonable and honest discussion, try doing so in a concise and intelligent and forthright manner.
Since you won’t do that, you’re basically just the troll here.

Approving the DoJ to review classified documents that Trump had taken to Mar a Lago isn’t controversial.

You’re wrong in premise and conclusion. Brandon used the DOJ to commence a political persecution of a former President.

It definitely didn’t mean that Biden was in on any decision to proceed with a search warrant, which is the fundamentally dishonest claim being made.

Wrong. It is something he chose to do precisely to seek the political prosecution of his immediate predecessor.

Getting the old Presidential records back into the physical possession of the Archives wasn’t an urgency. It was already a matter of an ongoing negotiation. Plus, the brouhaha over the allegedly “classified” nature of some of the documents didn’t require a search warrant either. And we now know that Brandon himself wasn’t complaint with the handling of classified document, either.

I can’t make you see or acknowledge the evidence right underneath your own nose.
But don’t pretend that you’re objective. You’re anything but objective.

 

[Marener]

You’re wrong in premise and conclusion. Brandon used the DOJ to commence a political persecution of a former President.

Nonsense. Anytime it’s clear that highly classified documents have been mishandled, it’s reason for the DoJ to be involved. Any rational person would tell you this, given this is a matter of national security. Those highly classified records should have never left the strict control of government custody. The government does take their security seriously.

Wrong. It is something he chose to do precisely to seek the political prosecution of his immediate predecessor.

Getting the old Presidential records back into the physical possession of the Archives wasn’t an urgency. It was already a matter of an ongoing negotiation. Plus, the brouhaha over the allegedly “classified” nature of some of the documents didn’t require a search warrant either. And we now know that Brandon himself wasn’t complaint with the handling of classified document, either.

Again, baseless paranoia. Getting highly classified documents back to the archives is an urgency. That’s why the DoJ got a grand jury subpoena to have them recovered. By definition, classified information is a threat to national security if it is disclosed. The longer those documents are out there, the more threat to national security.

If Trump had actually turned over all the documents when he was subpoenaed, then there would have never been a search warrant. He didn’t comply with the subpoena. What else were they supposed to do? They asked for this stuff back again and again and again. Trump didn’t cooperate.

Biden had nothing to do with the decision to pursue a search warrant. That decision came from the DoJ in light of evidence that Trump was misleading them.

 

[BackAgain]

Nonsense. Anytime it’s clear that highly classified documents have been mishandled, it’s reason for the DoJ to be involved.

Classified? Lol.

Any rational person would tell you this, given this is a matter of national security.

Bullshit.

Those highly classified records should have never left the strict control of government custody.

They weren’t classified anymore. Try to follow along.

The government does take their security seriously.

Bullshit. As we’ve seen, our government is pathetically weak when it comes to such papers. Otherwise none would have been stored in a box in the private residence of Brandon, the Potato.

You’re a long winded broken record of falsity.

 

[Marener]

Classified? Lol.

Yes. These documents bore all the markings of being classified. It’s not ambiguous.

Bullshit.

Again, no explanation or rebuttal.

They weren’t classified anymore. Try to follow along.

Says who? Not Trump. At no point in time did Trump anyone that these documents were no longer classified when he clearly could have done so. Even if he did declassify them, the government still needs these documents to determine what harm he caused to national security.

Bullshit. As we’ve seen, our government is pathetically weak when it comes to such papers. Otherwise none would have been stored in a box in the private residence of Brandon, the Potato.

Given the massive amounts of classified data passing through their hands, no one is surprised that some of this material can be lost. The difference is what you do when you discover it. The government takes that pretty seriously.

 

[Batcat]

Sorry bout that,

1. So where is the shredding of Biden on all News Channels?
2. He was on record saying he did not send the goons.
3. And now, the truth comes out.
4. Lookie Here:

Biden's White House DIRECTLY Connected To Mar-A-Lago Raid -- Despite Testimony To The Contrary

Remember when Biden's White House purported to be 'stunned' by the raid of Mar-A-Lago? They couldn't possibly have been 'stunned'. They were in on it.

clashdaily.com

5. Libtards heads spinning. lol!!!!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Joe Biden has a long history of lying. It is wise to not believe anything he says.

 

[BackAgain]

Yes. These documents bore all the markings of being classified. It’s not ambiguous.

Trump declassified then. End of story.

Again, no explanation or rebuttal.

See above. Plus, that debate has long since been had. You’re late to the party.

Says who? Not Trump. At no point in time did Trump anyone that these documents were no longer classified when he clearly could have done so.

False. And, in fact, it was so well known that he had made the claim, that the US Attorney who drafted the Search Warrant Application (for the FBI agent) was compelled to note it in that application.

Even if he did declassify them, the government still needs these documents to determine what harm he caused to national security.

I don’t think the government “needs” them. But even if they did, the process was underway. Again, no actual need for any search warrant.

Given the massive amounts of classified data passing through their hands, no one is surprised that some of this material can be lost.

Carelessness over an overuse of the “classified” stamps in documents is not excuse.

The difference is what you do when you discover it. The government takes that pretty seriously.

Apparently not. Sometimes they choose to. Other times, not so much.

 

[Marener]

False. And, in fact, it was so well known that he had made the claim, that the US Attorney who drafted the Search Warrant Application (for the FBI agent) was compelled to note it in that application.

They noted that Kash Patel said something vague about it to Brietbart which is hardly the claim you’re making. Trump’s lawyers had ample opportunity to inform anyone at the archives or the DoJ that they were declassified and to this date they have never done so. In the absence of legitimate reason to believe they’re actually declassified, it should surprise no one that the government continues to treat them as classified.

I don’t think the government “needs” them. But even if they did, the process was underway. Again, no actual need for any search warrant.

The government does need them to determine what potential harm to national security Trump has done. How else could have the DoJ gotten them back? They exhausted all less intrusive means to do so.

 

[BackAgain]

They noted that Kash Patel said something vague about it to Brietbart which is hardly the claim you’re making.

It wasn’t vague. And it precisely the claim I made.

Trump’s lawyers had ample opportunity to inform anyone at the archives or the DoJ that they were declassified and to this date they have never done so.

There was never any necessity. Let’s try to get you to grasp even a portion of reality.

1. Absolutely everyone knew that the highly politicized Brandon DOJ was cunning for Trump.
2. Trump and his team knew that, eventually, some asshole prosecutor or “special counsel” WAS going to charge Trump with whatever fantasy “crimes” they thought they could lodge.
3. Neither Trump nor anyone on his legal team ever had any obligation to say a single word to the gubmint which might reveal their own eventual defense. (No rational lawyer ever wants to aid his opponent more than required or sooner than necessary.)
4. So, to tell us that his lawyers have never yet said that the purportedly “classified” materials had already been declassified is to tell us nothing of any significance.

In the absence of legitimate reason to believe they’re actually declassified, it should surprise no one that the government continues to treat them as classified.

Nonsense. The “government” is being silly in this regard. The truth is that they knew that there was no reasonable belief that the “classified” documents were still classified.

The government does need them to determine what potential harm to national security Trump has done.

Nonsense. Unlike Brandon’s clearly illegal possession of actually classified materials in non-secure locations, Trump’s possession of DEclassified documents were in a very secure location. And the government knew it.

How else could have the DoJ gotten them back?

Patience. It was being addressed.

They exhausted all less intrusive means to do so.

Bullshit. They absolutely and obviously had not. And there was zero urgency, in any event. And the government knew that, too.

 

[Marener]

It wasn’t vague. And it precisely the claim I made.

Except it wasn’t what you claimed. It was Kash Patel who made the claim, not Trump. A third party claiming something is declassified in some random media interview is hardly relevant to the matter.

There was never any necessity.

If Trump wanted the government to stop treating them as if they were classified, then he should have told them. There’s literally no reason to withhold that information unless he doesn’t actually want to declassify them.

Nonsense. The “government” is being silly in this regard. The truth is that they knew that there was no reasonable belief that the “classified” documents were still classified.

The documents were clearly marked classified and they had received zero reason to believe any different. That’s a reasonable belief.

Nonsense. Unlike Brandon’s clearly illegal possession of actually classified materials in non-secure locations, Trump’s possession of DEclassified documents were in a very secure location. And the government knew it.

Keeping classified documents in a storage closet or a resort is hardly secure but you still miss the point. Declassifying national security information damages national security. The government had a need to know what is a state secret and what isn’t.

Patience. It was being addressed.

How? They’re supposed to just wait until Trump decides to stop lying and comply with a subpoena? Nonsense. Trump had plenty of opportunity to turn them over. He chose not to.

Bullshit. They absolutely and obviously had not. And there was zero urgency, in any event. And the government knew that, too.

If we were to believe Trump’s lawyers, they had already turned everything over before the search warrant. Was that true or not?

 

[ElmerMudd]

Sorry bout that,

1. So where is the shredding of Biden on all News Channels?
2. He was on record saying he did not send the goons.
3. And now, the truth comes out.
4. Lookie Here:

Biden's White House DIRECTLY Connected To Mar-A-Lago Raid -- Despite Testimony To The Contrary

Remember when Biden's White House purported to be 'stunned' by the raid of Mar-A-Lago? They couldn't possibly have been 'stunned'. They were in on it.

clashdaily.com

5. Libtards heads spinning. lol!!!!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Mar a Lago has been populated with goons, and worse, since Trump purchased it.

 

[BackAgain]

Except it wasn’t what you claimed. It was Kash Patel who made the claim, not Trump.

Since it was Trump whom Patel was quoting, you’re obviously wrong yet again.

A third party claiming something is declassified in some random media interview is hardly relevant to the matter.

It was relevant enough for the US Attorney to have to acknowledge.

If Trump wanted the government to stop treating them as if they were classified, then he should have told them.

Should? Nah. He was and still is entitled to keep his own counsel. What he elects to not say prior to trial has no bearing on what he might feel the need to expound upon at a possible future trial.

There’s literally no reason to withhold that information unless he doesn’t actually want to declassify them.

Wrong. Your ignorance is on display.

The documents were clearly marked classified

Allegedly. And presumably they were. So what? All classified documents get marked accordingly and don’t lose that mere marking just because they lose the status subsequently.

and they had received zero reason to believe any different.

False. Obviously. They had received reason. The politicized persecution made a choice to reject the claim … without good reason.

That’s a reasonable belief.

It is a belief. It’s not all that ”reasonable,” as I’ve noted above and in the past.

Keeping classified documents in a storage closet or a resort is hardly secure but you still miss the point.

More secure than in a box beside a car in Potato’s garage if his private residence. Mar A Lago had a secured unit.

Declassifying national security information damages national security.

That’s a moronic claim.

The government had a need to know what is a state secret and what isn’t.

The manner of Trump’s declassification of the formerly classified material may be legitimately criticized. But that doesn’t really change the fact.

How? They’re supposed to just wait until Trump decides to stop lying and comply with a subpoena?

No evidence that Trump lied.

Nonsense. Trump had plenty of opportunity to turn them over. He chose not to.

He was negotiating. Obviously he had a right to do so. If not, why had the government’s lawyers BEEN negotiating with him, genius?

If we were to believe Trump’s lawyers, they had already turned everything over before the search warrant. Was that true or not?

Gee. If you tell the government that your tax return statements are true and accurate to the best of your information and knowledge, but a scrutinizing audit reveals that you were mistaken, were you a liar? Or do you recognize that sometimes statements are made by folks believing them to be true but are actually mistakes?

 

[Marener]

Since it was Trump whom Patel was quoting, you’re obviously wrong yet again.

So it’s hearsay within hearsay. That’s hardly compelling.

It was relevant enough for the US Attorney to have to acknowledge.

Since the rest of that part of the affidavit is redacted, we don’t know exactly why.

Should? Nah. He was and still is entitled to keep his own counsel. What he elects to not say prior to trial has no bearing on what he might feel the need to expound upon at a possible future trial.

It would have avoided most of mess he’s made for himself.

Wrong. Your ignorance is on display.

Haven’t heard a rational reason yet.

Allegedly. And presumably they were. So what? All classified documents get marked accordingly and don’t lose that mere marking just because they lose the status subsequently.

Classified documents get new markings when they’re declassified to show their updated status.

False. Obviously. They had received reason. The politicized persecution made a choice to reject the claim … without good reason.

They’d never been told in any capacity any of the documents were declassified. A news report with vague hearsay is not a legitimate reason. It makes no sense that they would take that as an actual claim that they were declassified when Trump himself has refused to actually make the claim. During Trump’s tenure, Mark Meadows had to tell a judge that Trump’s claims on social media of declassifying material were not actually orders to declassify anything. All it is, is Trump trying to eat his cake and have it too.

More secure than in a box beside a car in Potato’s garage if his private residence. Mar A Lago had a secured unit.

Given hundreds of people go in and out or Mar A Lago daily, it’s hardly more secure. What kept the boxes so secure? A padlock that anyone could pick in a few seconds? Please.

That’s a moronic claim.

It’s not. The president can declassify anything they want, but that may very well harm national security.

No evidence that Trump lied.

We are getting there.

He was negotiating. Obviously he had a right to do so. If not, why had the government’s lawyers BEEN negotiating with him, genius?

He wasn’t. The DoJ gave him a grand jury subpoena and his lawyers claimed to have complied. There was no objection. There was no lawsuit. There was no negotiation.

Gee. If you tell the government that your tax return statements are true and accurate to the best of your information and knowledge, but a scrutinizing audit reveals that you were mistaken, were you a liar? Or do you recognize that sometimes statements are made by folks believing them to be true but are actually mistakes?

Because the FBI located dozens of classified documents within minutes of examining the boxes in the very room that his lawyers said they were in. You’d have to be pretty stupid to think that was merely an oversight.

 

[Billo_Really]

Sorry bout that,

1. So where is the shredding of Biden on all News Channels?
2. He was on record saying he did not send the goons.
3. And now, the truth comes out.
4. Lookie Here:

Biden's White House DIRECTLY Connected To Mar-A-Lago Raid -- Despite Testimony To The Contrary

Remember when Biden's White House purported to be 'stunned' by the raid of Mar-A-Lago? They couldn't possibly have been 'stunned'. They were in on it.

clashdaily.com

5. Libtards heads spinning. lol!!!!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

It was a lawful raid, junior.

 

[BackAgain]

So it’s hearsay within hearsay. That’s hardly compelling.

Since you can’t even use the word properly, there’s no sense in discussing it with you.

 

[Marener]

Since you can’t even use the word properly, there’s no sense in discussing it with you.

Yet again, you claim I’m wrong without an explanation.

Hearsay is an out of court statement meant to assert the truth of a matter.

The assertion of truth here is that the documents were declassified.

Trump told Kash and Kash told Breitbart.

So it’s hearsay within hearsay. First hearsay is Trump telling Kash. Second hearsay is Kash telling Brietbart.

It’s absolutely obvious this isn’t actionable. We don’t even know if Kash is telling the truth.

Beyond that, it’s also entirely irrelevant. Whether they were classified or not doesn’t change anything about the need for the government to see those documents.

 

[BackAgain]

Yet again, you claim I’m wrong without an explanation.

The word speaks for itself. Since you misused it, I’m allowed to note that fact.

Hearsay is an out of court statement meant to assert the truth of a matter.

Hearsay applies to a statement made in court. To try to dismiss something now spoken out of court — on the basis that it was simply a quote of something else said out of court — misses the meaning of hearsay. Hearsay is necessarily not subject to cross examination in court. No statements made outside of a court setting are subject to objections of that kind. You can say “well just because Kash said he heard it doesn’t mean Trump actually said it.” That’s true enough. But the problem isn’t one of hearsay.

The assertion of truth here is that the documents were declassified.

I know. If I hear a President say, “since I’m leaving the White House, I’m hereby declassifying all these documents,” I am saying that the President did declassify those documents. And, I don’t give a shit if you believe my quote or not.

Trump told Kash and Kash told Breitbart.

Basically. Yes.

So it’s hearsay within hearsay.

Nope. It’s still not hearsay at all.

First hearsay is Trump telling Kash.

Nope.

Second hearsay is Kash telling Brietbart.

Nope.

It’s absolutely obvious this isn’t actionable. We don’t even know if Kash is telling the truth.

Irrelevant.

Beyond that, it’s also entirely irrelevant.

We seem to agree on that. of course, likely for different reasons.

Whether they were classified or not doesn’t change anything about the need for the government to see those documents.

Of course it does. What is the governmental need for physical possession of the non classified documents — especially a “need” that demands immediacy?

 

[Marener]

Hearsay applies to a statement made in court.

The search warrant was obtained in a court. Kash Patel’s statement to Brietbart isn’t proof that the records were declassified without further confirmation that Trump does indeed claim he declassified them in any official setting. As I stated earlier, Mark Meadows had to tell a judge that Trump claiming to declassify information on Twitter didn’t actually mean anything. The same would go doubly for Kash Patel.

There’s a very straightforward reason they’re not going to assume the documents are declassified. Once that information is public, you can’t undo that. So until it’s crystal clear that they’re actually declassified, they’re going to logically treat them as classified.

The government needed those documents to know what national security information was at risk so that it can mitigate any national security damage. The government didn’t even know exactly what he was hanging onto.

As for immediacy, that’s nonsense. The government gave Trump a lot of time to turn them over. He spent a year messing around with the archives. The DoJ gave him over a month to comply with a pretty straightforward subpoena. The reason Trump failed to turn over his documents isn’t because he didn’t have enough time.

 

[Care4all]

Ahemmm

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.lawfareblog.com/trump-loses-big-executive-privilege&ved=2ahUKEwiwoZO83LH-AhWdgoQIHXw7C64QFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw377-vuKInM5rJT5LsChZK1

Don’t look now, but the law of executive privilege has undergone a substantial shift.

The Supreme Court Wednesday evening denied a motion by former President Trump to block the National Archive from turning White House materials to the House Select Committee on the January 6 Attack. The peculiar, four-page order, is a complicated document, but in combination with the broad and underdiscussed D.C. Circuit opinion it leaves in place, it has profound implications for Trump’s ability, and that of his allies, to make executive privilege claims in response to demands for testimony and information from the committee.

On its face, the Supreme Court’s order yesterday appears to mitigate the consequences for Trump of a D.C. Circuit opinion that rejects a number of his key claims in resisting the committee. The D.C. Circuit opinion has been hanging around since early last month with little notice or discussion—probably because the Supreme Court was poised to jump in any time. But in fact, the Supreme Court action does not mitigate the matter for Trump.

Put simply, the former president, whether he knows it or not, is now in a dramatically weaker position than he was only recently with respect to the committee. The new legal landscape, for example, almost certainly means that two top Trump officials—former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadow and former top adviser Steve Bannon—can no longer argue that the privilege prevents them from cooperating with the committee. The same applies to other potential witnesses, and to the former president himself, should the committee seek his testimony. All, of course, may well continue to resist anyway—but if so, they proceed at much greater risk to themselves.

Herein a guide for the perplexed

 

[MagicMike]

Sorry bout that,

1. So where is the shredding of Biden on all News Channels?
2. He was on record saying he did not send the goons.
3. And now, the truth comes out.
4. Lookie Here:

Biden's White House DIRECTLY Connected To Mar-A-Lago Raid -- Despite Testimony To The Contrary

Remember when Biden's White House purported to be 'stunned' by the raid of Mar-A-Lago? They couldn't possibly have been 'stunned'. They were in on it.

clashdaily.com

5. Libtards heads spinning. lol!!!!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

It's not "abuse of power" if a legal warrant was produced based upon evidence that a crime had been committed.

 

[BackAgain]

The search warrant was obtained in a court. Kash Patel’s statement to Brietbart isn’t proof that the records were declassified without further confirmation that Trump does indeed claim he declassified them in any official setting. As I stated earlier, Mark Meadows had to tell a judge that Trump claiming to declassify information on Twitter didn’t actually mean anything. The same would go doubly for Kash Patel.

There’s a very straightforward reason they’re not going to assume the documents are declassified. Once that information is public, you can’t undo that. So until it’s crystal clear that they’re actually declassified, they’re going to logically treat them as classified.

The government needed those documents to know what national security information was at risk so that it can mitigate any national security damage. The government didn’t even know exactly what he was hanging onto.

As for immediacy, that’s nonsense. The government gave Trump a lot of time to turn them over. He spent a year messing around with the archives. The DoJ gave him over a month to comply with a pretty straightforward subpoena. The reason Trump failed to turn over his documents isn’t because he didn’t have enough time.

You’re quite verbose. Seriously, you need to drive for brevity.

Kash saying it doesn’t make it so. On that we agree. But I don’t believe there is any fair basis to say that Kash is dishonest.

I don’t care why they may or may not choose to believe it. Their belief doesn’t constitute evidence.

And the government damn well knew what documents (which are all labeled and recorded) said. Your contrary claim is make believe.

Your argument about the immediacy issue is wordplay. The point remains that there was no rush and no perceived need for any rush. And you can’t point to any such alleged need.