Bernie Sanders thinks our government should be more like the ones found in Scandanavia

[oldernwiser]

Every public school is a socialist government collective. That's precisely what's wrong with them.

The pupils of the socialist collective schools won WW2 and put a man on the moon for example. They can't be all that bad.

Conservative American engineers and businessmen won WW II and put a man on the moon. However, WW II was just one fascist country fighting another fascist country.

How do you know the engineers were conservatives? These businessmens' asses were saved by FDR and his socialist policies. And FDR was in charge during WW2.

Actually, I am convinced that Russia won world war 2. We served only as a distraction. Not to say the western front didn't fight and die just as valiantly, but if Russia had not been slaughtering the Nazis on the eastern front, we would have been killed on the west for sure.

That said, the business man were not, by any rational position... "saved" by FDR. Not a chance. That's idiotic at best, and down right lying at worst.

Russia would have lost without the vast amounts of supplies provided by the United States. Our bombing campaign also had a large impact on the war.

How do you figure? Russia had General Winter fighting on their side and it caused the Germans to retreat time and again. Hitler was counting on Russia to fall faster than he took France, and the fact that it didn't demoralized his army more than anything else could have - except maybe the fire bombing of Berlin (but by then, the German army had given back most of the territory they had gained).

And truth be told, many of those conservative businessmen were playing on both sides. CocaCola for instance started it's subsidiary in Germany under the name Fanta - which is still sold today. FDR didn't save the biggies - they were already prepared no matter which way the war went.

 

[oldernwiser]

That's not true though. The I-9 and identification is required to get a job, and a drivers license.

The problem is, it's easy to get fake identification.

There is just no possible way that the government could check the identification of 142 Million jobs across the entire country. And even if they did... it still wouldn't work. There are too many under-the-table jobs. I used to work for a parts store here, and there were a group of Mexicans who would walk in, buy stuff, and pay with all cash, all covered in grease and oil from head to foot. It was a back yard repair shop, run by illegals. They hired illegals, and lived fixing cars. Good group of guys honestly.

But how exactly would you propose we stop that? The entire business operated cash only. No banks accounts, no electronic transfers. Of course no IRS forms, or Social Security payments. And obviously no I-9s to turn in.

What is your solution?

The government doesn't check the ID's, that's up to employers. And they can check online whether or not the ID is valid and matches the individual providing it. All payments to employees must be made to the person named on the ID. You can't open a bank account or get a phone without government issued photo ID.

There are individuals who operate all cash businesses, and you're always going to have some cheaters (people overstaying student or visitor visas can be an issue). But those things won't get you a SIN card and without a valid SIN you can't apply for credit, buy a house, or get health insurance, welfare or other government services.

I understand that there are issues with your SSN records and that's unfortunate. Ours are in great shape.

What Americans don't seem to realize or accept, is that the current situation didn't happen in a vacuum. Having millions of workers submitting withholding taxes they can never collect benefits on is a tremendous boon to your government programs. The cheap labour pool keeps the cost of legal labour down because if Americans are unwilling to work for the money offered, an illegal worker will be happy for the work.

I saw some studies a few years ago that said that illegals contribute far more to the government by way of withholding taxes, than they cost in government services, and that includes the costs of schooling for their children. Simple logic says that no one would allow 11 million illegals in without doing something, if somebody wasn't making a shitload of money letting it happen. The idea that illegals are flooding across the border in these numbers without the consent of governments and business, is just ludicrous.

Those studies are garbage. It's like trying to document the black market. If you knew how much was where, the police would go and get it. Thus they are not going to allow you to document it.

There is no validated information on how much social benefits illegals collect, verse how much in taxes they pay, that they don't collect. For example, they do collect social payments when they can. If they use a false ID to pay taxes, they can use the same false ID to collect unemployment compensation.

Research that shows otherwise, is normally based on estimates, based on estimates, based on estimates. In other words, it's junk. If legal citizens can collect food stamps, while having millions of dollars..... don't tell me an illegal can't. Gaming the system is wide spread among citizens and non-citizens alike. There is a reason that SSI is going to Puerto Rico, which isn't even a state.

And the Surveys of this are even less believable. Think about it.... are you as an illegal, more or less likely to tell people you pay taxes for benefits you do not receive, or that you are collecting benefits you are not allowed to get? Why anyone would be shocked that few would admit to the latter over the former, is beyond me.

Yeah, the government doesn't check the IDs, because they can't. Checking and validating each and every single ID for 142 Million jobs, every year, would be impossible. And still people would easily get through, if they did.

Now my solution is two things....

First, I honestly don't care if illegals get out more than they pay in, or pay in more than they get out. I truly don't care either way.

The solution there is.... eliminate the welfare state. Then it doesn't matter. No welfare, food stamps, section 8, and on and on... and then we don't care what they do. I am just as pissed off at legal citizens collection hand outs from the tax payers, as anyone else.

Second, all Illegals should be imprisoned or deported, not because of whether they do, or do not do a job we may or may not want, or whether they get social benefits or not.

They should be imprisoned or deported because.... THEY ARE ILLEGAL. We are nation of laws. Our laws must be respected, or you don't get to live here.

That said...... I think immigration should be easier and quicker. Everyone who has followed the law, should have a quick painless (other than the fees) method for becoming legal citizens.

But the left doesn't want either of those. That's the irony. They don't want to fully enforce the law, and deport people breaking the law... but they also don't want to change it so they can be legal citizens. Either of those would fix the problem. But leftist LIKE having problems. Problems and complaints and issues, are what they run on. It's how they bribe people to vote for them.

Bill Clinton ran on fixing the illegal immigration.... did he fix it? No. Obama ran on fixing illegal immigration. Did he fix it? No. Got both of them a ton of votes though.

Of course Republicans have ignored it.... which hasn't helped either.

Just wow...
First, it isn't as easy as you might think for an illegal to game the system and collect welfare benefits or even unemployment insurance payouts. I know this from first-hand knowledge, my step-daughter's baby-daddy was brought here illegally when he was 9. For a while, if he didn't work my step-grand didn't eat. My step-daughter was forced into accepting welfare - which was supposed to be just enough to cover her and her baby. Since her income was also subsidized by me, I find it quite laughable when anyone says that people on public assistance has it easy. Once her baby was weaned and could get into day care (which, as it turns out, is run by some other illegals pulling in cash) my step-daughter got 3 minimum wage jobs working close to 30 hours a week total. She still needed the assistance, but didn't lean on me quite as much (we provide her insurance through ACA, but she ages out of that in October).

As for the baby-daddy, there are plenty of ways to earn a fair living in this country without being noticed by the government. You can start your own business, for example, take only cash payments in return for reduced prices and pay any labor in cash per day. No ID required - real or fake. No SSN needed because none of those funds are going into the system. It's incredibly easy to side-step some regulations, and the only taxes he pays are when he buys things. But, the downside is that being undocumented, he can't get any government cash, either from entitlements or small business grants, if his business dries up. He can't even apply for a loan for any reason. He, and his business, will never have credit status. So, I'd say that if there are any real accounts of an undocumented person collecting social benefits, he also stole an identity along the way and our own government is not equipped to handle 2 John Does living at the exact same time in 2 different states with the exact same SSN. Since it's illegal to use a SSN as an identification anyway, there's an immense burden placed on the government to ascertain that these 2 people are the same or different. They just let it go.

I agree that the "welfare state" should be eliminated. But to do that, we pretty much have to guarantee that anyone who can work can always get a job. You'll never fully eliminate welfare as there are just too many people who would be unable to work regardless. But, this has nothing to do with immigration policy - it's 2 different issues.

Let's get something straight though. Your assessment of "leftists" is ignorant at best. No one LIKES having problems, but immigration is probably one of the toughest we have right now. It's so tough that even the right (at least those who have thought the problem through a little more) is certainly not in favor of rounding them all up and deporting all illegals even though that's what the law says. Smart righties (and I have to believe there may still be a few) understand the cost of doing that - especially the costs associated with the resulting lack of cheap day labor in the agricultural business, which is the most powerful entity in the country. Clinton's response to the problem was to admit that we have a problem that can't be fixed any other way but to give all undocumented people legal status, and this was rejected by the right with no counterproposal. Obama saw that failure and decided to give a limited amount of aliens a path toward citizenship under strict guidelines might be more acceptable, and this too was rejected out-of-hand with nothing seriously replacing the idea - except maybe increasing CBP (which Obama and Clinton already had), building a fence (which Bush failed to complete), and rounding them all up and shipping them all to Mexico (which Mexico and the agro business won't accept). I'll give you high marks for the imprisonment solution though - I haven't heard that one suggested before. For a conservative, you sure seem willing to spend a lot of other people's money dealing with this. That's the problem with most rightists, they take the easiest sounding solution and run with it as if it's obvious without giving it a solid think, and then blame the left - who have already thought it through and understand the new cans of worms that "solution" presents - for being too dull to go with it.

 

[oldernwiser]

No history is the first hand accounts of those who lived through the time.

The conservatives have made a concerted effort to go through history books and rewrite history from a more "conservative" point of view. The intention is not to provide students with facts to allow them to make up their own minds as to what policies work but rather to indoctrinate students into believing conservatives dogma.

This is why Americans are falling further and further behind the rest of the world academically. You don't want people with critical thinking capabilities, you want preprogrammed voters.

Same to you.

The left-wingers have made a concerted effort to go through history books and rewrite history from a more "leftist" point of view. The intention is not to provide students with facts to allow them to make up their own minds as to what policies work but rather to indoctrinate students into believing left-wing dogma.

This is why Americans are falling further and further behind the rest of the world academically. You don't want people with critical thinking capabilities, you want preprogrammed voters.

LMAO!!

So, as far as you're concerned, if it's the good old America the Exceptional conservative viewpoint, this is true history. If it's critical of America or its policies in any way, it's false leftist propaganda designed solely to "indoctrinate" more liberals. Man, have you got you underwear twisted!

Using your same logic, would we not be also correct saying that young students are being indoctrinated in right-wing dogma? What if it turns out that right-wing dogma is completely wrong? If you accept that left-wing dogma is always wrong, then you have to be ready to also accept the inverse.

I love conservatives - they're so absolute and rigid in their beliefs that they have absolutely no need for logic or common sense.

 

[Statistikhengst]

No history is the first hand accounts of those who lived through the time.

The conservatives have made a concerted effort to go through history books and rewrite history from a more "conservative" point of view. The intention is not to provide students with facts to allow them to make up their own minds as to what policies work but rather to indoctrinate students into believing conservatives dogma.

This is why Americans are falling further and further behind the rest of the world academically. You don't want people with critical thinking capabilities, you want preprogrammed voters.

Same to you.

The left-wingers have made a concerted effort to go through history books and rewrite history from a more "leftist" point of view. The intention is not to provide students with facts to allow them to make up their own minds as to what policies work but rather to indoctrinate students into believing left-wing dogma.

This is why Americans are falling further and further behind the rest of the world academically. You don't want people with critical thinking capabilities, you want preprogrammed voters.

LMAO!!

So, as far as you're concerned, if it's the good old America the Exceptional conservative viewpoint, this is true history. If it's critical of America or its policies in any way, it's false leftist propaganda designed solely to "indoctrinate" more liberals. Man, have you got you underwear twisted!

Using your same logic, would we not be also correct saying that young students are being indoctrinated in right-wing dogma? What if it turns out that right-wing dogma is completely wrong? If you accept that left-wing dogma is always wrong, then you have to be ready to also accept the inverse.

I love conservatives - they're so absolute and rigid in their beliefs that they have absolutely no need for logic or common sense.

 

[auditor0007]

I pick and chose the charities I give to and it frosts my ass to have my hard earned dollars given to those who can't or won't help themselves.

I'll bet you call yourself a Christian too. You, and people like you, are the reason America isn't "exceptional" and will never be "exceptional". Mean spirited, selfish and greedy gets you nowhere. Ayn Rand would be so proud.

Christian? Again LMAO. Another bleeding heart liberal who thinks everyone in America should be overjoyed to have their hard earned money spent on freeloaders and have no say in the matter.

And What the hell does religion have to do with being forced to bankroll freeloaders??

Religion is the bane of the world in my book.

Mean spirited, selfish and greedy?? If that means I'm tired of being forced to assume the resposibility for those who can't or won't take care of themselves then yeah I am. And I'm a person who could give shit one what bleeding heart liberals like you think.

I wonder if your tune would change if you and like minded and ONLY YOU had to bankroll these freeloaders. I think you'd be singing a different tune and in one big hurry.

Loads of taxpayer funded GOVT programs out there that have utterly failed under LBJ's war on poverty. Loads of someone elses hard earned money all to bankroll freeloaders

Yes, we know that you would just prefer to see all poor people living in the ghettos of India. I mean Hell, if they don't want to be poor, then they shouldn't be poor.

 

[Andylusion]

That's not true though. The I-9 and identification is required to get a job, and a drivers license.

The problem is, it's easy to get fake identification.

There is just no possible way that the government could check the identification of 142 Million jobs across the entire country. And even if they did... it still wouldn't work. There are too many under-the-table jobs. I used to work for a parts store here, and there were a group of Mexicans who would walk in, buy stuff, and pay with all cash, all covered in grease and oil from head to foot. It was a back yard repair shop, run by illegals. They hired illegals, and lived fixing cars. Good group of guys honestly.

But how exactly would you propose we stop that? The entire business operated cash only. No banks accounts, no electronic transfers. Of course no IRS forms, or Social Security payments. And obviously no I-9s to turn in.

What is your solution?

The government doesn't check the ID's, that's up to employers. And they can check online whether or not the ID is valid and matches the individual providing it. All payments to employees must be made to the person named on the ID. You can't open a bank account or get a phone without government issued photo ID.

There are individuals who operate all cash businesses, and you're always going to have some cheaters (people overstaying student or visitor visas can be an issue). But those things won't get you a SIN card and without a valid SIN you can't apply for credit, buy a house, or get health insurance, welfare or other government services.

I understand that there are issues with your SSN records and that's unfortunate. Ours are in great shape.

What Americans don't seem to realize or accept, is that the current situation didn't happen in a vacuum. Having millions of workers submitting withholding taxes they can never collect benefits on is a tremendous boon to your government programs. The cheap labour pool keeps the cost of legal labour down because if Americans are unwilling to work for the money offered, an illegal worker will be happy for the work.

I saw some studies a few years ago that said that illegals contribute far more to the government by way of withholding taxes, than they cost in government services, and that includes the costs of schooling for their children. Simple logic says that no one would allow 11 million illegals in without doing something, if somebody wasn't making a shitload of money letting it happen. The idea that illegals are flooding across the border in these numbers without the consent of governments and business, is just ludicrous.

Those studies are garbage. It's like trying to document the black market. If you knew how much was where, the police would go and get it. Thus they are not going to allow you to document it.

There is no validated information on how much social benefits illegals collect, verse how much in taxes they pay, that they don't collect. For example, they do collect social payments when they can. If they use a false ID to pay taxes, they can use the same false ID to collect unemployment compensation.

Research that shows otherwise, is normally based on estimates, based on estimates, based on estimates. In other words, it's junk. If legal citizens can collect food stamps, while having millions of dollars..... don't tell me an illegal can't. Gaming the system is wide spread among citizens and non-citizens alike. There is a reason that SSI is going to Puerto Rico, which isn't even a state.

And the Surveys of this are even less believable. Think about it.... are you as an illegal, more or less likely to tell people you pay taxes for benefits you do not receive, or that you are collecting benefits you are not allowed to get? Why anyone would be shocked that few would admit to the latter over the former, is beyond me.

Yeah, the government doesn't check the IDs, because they can't. Checking and validating each and every single ID for 142 Million jobs, every year, would be impossible. And still people would easily get through, if they did.

Now my solution is two things....

First, I honestly don't care if illegals get out more than they pay in, or pay in more than they get out. I truly don't care either way.

The solution there is.... eliminate the welfare state. Then it doesn't matter. No welfare, food stamps, section 8, and on and on... and then we don't care what they do. I am just as pissed off at legal citizens collection hand outs from the tax payers, as anyone else.

Second, all Illegals should be imprisoned or deported, not because of whether they do, or do not do a job we may or may not want, or whether they get social benefits or not.

They should be imprisoned or deported because.... THEY ARE ILLEGAL. We are nation of laws. Our laws must be respected, or you don't get to live here.

That said...... I think immigration should be easier and quicker. Everyone who has followed the law, should have a quick painless (other than the fees) method for becoming legal citizens.

But the left doesn't want either of those. That's the irony. They don't want to fully enforce the law, and deport people breaking the law... but they also don't want to change it so they can be legal citizens. Either of those would fix the problem. But leftist LIKE having problems. Problems and complaints and issues, are what they run on. It's how they bribe people to vote for them.

Bill Clinton ran on fixing the illegal immigration.... did he fix it? No. Obama ran on fixing illegal immigration. Did he fix it? No. Got both of them a ton of votes though.

Of course Republicans have ignored it.... which hasn't helped either.

Just wow...
First, it isn't as easy as you might think for an illegal to game the system and collect welfare benefits or even unemployment insurance payouts. I know this from first-hand knowledge, my step-daughter's baby-daddy was brought here illegally when he was 9. For a while, if he didn't work my step-grand didn't eat. My step-daughter was forced into accepting welfare - which was supposed to be just enough to cover her and her baby. Since her income was also subsidized by me, I find it quite laughable when anyone says that people on public assistance has it easy. Once her baby was weaned and could get into day care (which, as it turns out, is run by some other illegals pulling in cash) my step-daughter got 3 minimum wage jobs working close to 30 hours a week total. She still needed the assistance, but didn't lean on me quite as much (we provide her insurance through ACA, but she ages out of that in October).

As for the baby-daddy, there are plenty of ways to earn a fair living in this country without being noticed by the government. You can start your own business, for example, take only cash payments in return for reduced prices and pay any labor in cash per day. No ID required - real or fake. No SSN needed because none of those funds are going into the system. It's incredibly easy to side-step some regulations, and the only taxes he pays are when he buys things. But, the downside is that being undocumented, he can't get any government cash, either from entitlements or small business grants, if his business dries up. He can't even apply for a loan for any reason. He, and his business, will never have credit status. So, I'd say that if there are any real accounts of an undocumented person collecting social benefits, he also stole an identity along the way and our own government is not equipped to handle 2 John Does living at the exact same time in 2 different states with the exact same SSN. Since it's illegal to use a SSN as an identification anyway, there's an immense burden placed on the government to ascertain that these 2 people are the same or different. They just let it go.

I agree that the "welfare state" should be eliminated. But to do that, we pretty much have to guarantee that anyone who can work can always get a job. You'll never fully eliminate welfare as there are just too many people who would be unable to work regardless. But, this has nothing to do with immigration policy - it's 2 different issues.

Let's get something straight though. Your assessment of "leftists" is ignorant at best. No one LIKES having problems, but immigration is probably one of the toughest we have right now. It's so tough that even the right (at least those who have thought the problem through a little more) is certainly not in favor of rounding them all up and deporting all illegals even though that's what the law says. Smart righties (and I have to believe there may still be a few) understand the cost of doing that - especially the costs associated with the resulting lack of cheap day labor in the agricultural business, which is the most powerful entity in the country. Clinton's response to the problem was to admit that we have a problem that can't be fixed any other way but to give all undocumented people legal status, and this was rejected by the right with no counterproposal. Obama saw that failure and decided to give a limited amount of aliens a path toward citizenship under strict guidelines might be more acceptable, and this too was rejected out-of-hand with nothing seriously replacing the idea - except maybe increasing CBP (which Obama and Clinton already had), building a fence (which Bush failed to complete), and rounding them all up and shipping them all to Mexico (which Mexico and the agro business won't accept). I'll give you high marks for the imprisonment solution though - I haven't heard that one suggested before. For a conservative, you sure seem willing to spend a lot of other people's money dealing with this. That's the problem with most rightists, they take the easiest sounding solution and run with it as if it's obvious without giving it a solid think, and then blame the left - who have already thought it through and understand the new cans of worms that "solution" presents - for being too dull to go with it.

You just made up crap.

Did I ever say "they have it easy"? Did I ever say it was "easy" to collect social benefits? No I did not. I said the fact is, many do. Whether they do so "easy" or not, is completely irrelevant. They do. Period. They do. End of discussion. I don't care if their life is easy or not in this context. They do. That's all there is to it.

Your step-daughter was "forced" into accepting welfare? Why was she working minimum wage jobs? If you work steady and reliably at McDonalds for 6 month, you can earn better than minimum wage. If she worked their for several years, she'd be in management by now, earning a ton more. Why was she only earning minimum wage? You can earn $10/hr stocking shelves. You can earn more than that baby sitting. You can earn a ton more than that cleaning houses. Heck you can earn almost double that delivering pizzas.

I'm earning double the minimum wage right now, and I have no degrees, no skills, no certifications. The one thing I do have... I show up *ON TIME*, and I *WORK ALL DAY*. Employers are desperate for people who just show up on time, and work when they are there. If your daughter isn't doing that, then it's on her. And honestly, she should be disqualified from getting any social benefits... *IF* she's not doing that.

"Baby-Daddy"? So they were not married?

No, I don't have to guarantee a job for anyone. You don't work... you don't eat. Wendy's is always hiring. Warehouses are always hiring. The people who can't find jobs, are the people who are lousy workers, or they have an arrogance problem where they think manual labor is below them. Get off your egotistic high horse, and get your butt to work. Buy a mower for $50, and start mowing grass.

I have always been able to find a job. There are always jobs looking for people who actually work.

Yeah, maybe the leftist people want to fix problems. But the leftists in government... no they like problems. The LOVE problems. More problems the better. Try and put yourself in the place of most average left-wing voters. When you hear a leftist talking about why we need to vote for their left-wing candidate... what do you hear all the time? "they'll fix X problem", "Waren will fix the banking problem".... "So and so will fix the energy problem"..... "Obama will fix the economy problem".

I have never voted for any candidate because I thought they would fix a problem. I vote for them because I hope they don't try and fix anything. I want government LESS involved in screwing up the country. Less regulations. Less taxes. Less ruining my life with bad health care policy.

You think the politicians in government don't know why left-winger vote for them? You think they don't know that it's the problems that get them votes? They do. They know more problems, means more votes. If they fix the problems, you won't have a reason to vote for them. Democrats talk talk talk about Mexican immigrants, which is why Mexican illegals vote vote vote. But the moment they actually fix the issue..... Mexicans won't be voting automatically for democrats anymore, and the democrats know this. They'll drag out this problem for as long as they possibly can. Democrats have talked about this since the late 70s early 80s. Almost 40 years later... same problem.

 

[Andylusion]

No history is the first hand accounts of those who lived through the time.

The conservatives have made a concerted effort to go through history books and rewrite history from a more "conservative" point of view. The intention is not to provide students with facts to allow them to make up their own minds as to what policies work but rather to indoctrinate students into believing conservatives dogma.

This is why Americans are falling further and further behind the rest of the world academically. You don't want people with critical thinking capabilities, you want preprogrammed voters.

Same to you.

The left-wingers have made a concerted effort to go through history books and rewrite history from a more "leftist" point of view. The intention is not to provide students with facts to allow them to make up their own minds as to what policies work but rather to indoctrinate students into believing left-wing dogma.

This is why Americans are falling further and further behind the rest of the world academically. You don't want people with critical thinking capabilities, you want preprogrammed voters.

LMAO!!

So, as far as you're concerned, if it's the good old America the Exceptional conservative viewpoint, this is true history. If it's critical of America or its policies in any way, it's false leftist propaganda designed solely to "indoctrinate" more liberals. Man, have you got you underwear twisted!

Using your same logic, would we not be also correct saying that young students are being indoctrinated in right-wing dogma? What if it turns out that right-wing dogma is completely wrong? If you accept that left-wing dogma is always wrong, then you have to be ready to also accept the inverse.

I love conservatives - they're so absolute and rigid in their beliefs that they have absolutely no need for logic or common sense.

Same to you

So, as far as you're concerned, if it's the bad old America-the-Terrible Leftist viewpoint, this is true history. If it's positive of America or its policies in any way, it's false conservative propaganda designed solely to "indoctrinate" more right-wingers. Man, have you got you underwear twisted!

Using your same logic, would we not be also correct saying that young students are being indoctrinated in left-wing dogma? What if it turns out that left-wing dogma is completely wrong? If you accept that right-wing dogma is always wrong, then you have to be ready to also accept the inverse.

I love Leftist Socialists - they're so absolute and rigid in their beliefs that they have absolutely no need for logic or common sense.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Which Scandinavian country?

Norway and Denmark are controlled by right wing governments that restrict immigration, cut spending, and cut taxes. Sweden is a cultural marxist shithole being flooded by over a hundred thousand third world refugees a year, that is going into massive debt. In Sweden, income inequality that is rising even faster than that in the US at the moment due to the influx of cheap foreign labor in part. I thought Sanders opposes income inequality?

Countries that have strong social safety nets often find nearly half their populations out of work living off the public dole.
IN order to make sure menial tasks are done, unskilled laborers are imported. Wiht wages unable to keep up with the ever rising cost of living due to inflationary government monetary policies( which are driven by more and more funding to social safety nets) the migrant workers find themselves falling behind. History shows us that this is a recipe for disaster

This post is bullshit.

I live in a country with a strong social safety net and since I know of no time that half the population had been out of work and living on government assistance.

We don't import large numbers of foreign workers to do menial tasks either. Our minimum wage is sufficient for a single person to support him/herself, and our healthcare is $25 per month per worker, with employers paying 1% of your income as a health tax.

It's the U.S. which has always relied on cheap labor. First it was slavery, then "guest" workers who could be sent home when not needed, and today its undocumented immigrants.

Right wingers constantly lie about conditions in other countries, trying to make the U.S. look better than it is. But as the U.S. continues to lose ranking in education, healthcare, safety and liveability, the right keeps ramping up the lies about how everyone is trying to get in.

The Canada/US border is the longest in defended border in the world. If the U.S. is so great, why aren't Canadians swarming across the border? What's to stop us?

Maybe it's because we're happier, healthier, and safer living where we are and we know how much better it is here. Our cities are cleaner, our children are getting a better education, and we have the fastest growing middle class in the world.

American Exceptionalism is a myth.

Bullshit? How so?
A Quick Guide To Europe s Deteriorating Youth Unemployment Nightmare - Business Insider
Europeans shift long-held view that social benefits are untouchable - The Washington Post
The European dream crumbles as joblessness skyrockets
No one was talking about Canada either.
And if the mortal decline you jealous Maple Leafers gleefully spout off about has one brilliant response. That is "if what you socialists claim is true, then why are people clamoring to get into the US? And why has Canada's population remained essentially stagnant for the last 30 years?
You people in these small socialist countries believe that getting something for nothing is a good thing. It isn't, And socialism cannot work in a country with a population in excess of 300 million people cannot work in an efficient and inexpensive manner.
Oh, WE ARE exceptional here.....The US is the greatest experiment in freedom and liberty in the history of man kind.
It is the parasites and the politicians looking for their vote who are ruining it.
- You mentioned safety and livability. Ok whatever that means. But for a moment I'll indulge you.....Those places where crime is rampant and cities are crumbling are run by the very same same people who want to expand the size and scope of the social safety nets. Irony.
BTW..When I lived in New Jersey, I used to go to Montreal on weekend getaways. Not once did I ever have any concerns about walking the streets at night.
The last time I was there was in 2005. I was shocked and appalled at the amount of filth, graffiti and vandalism....Right in down town.....Another aspect was the presence of street punks walking about. I saw a man accosted for no apparent reason other than being in eyeshot of the miscreants.
I spoke to an employee of Casino Montreal about what I'd seen. He told me that unemployment among young people was causing a rise in crime.
So please, don't give me this crap about how life in Canada is perfect. And do me a favor, stay on your side of the border.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Why don't y'all just move over there. You hate the US....move. Nobody is stopping you.

That's actually untrue. Most of us love our country so much that we're willing to risk our wallets to make it better - even for the socially challenged. Personally, what I hate about the US is that it has to be home to so many people who think that THEY are 100% self-sufficient and screw those who stumble along the way. I hate that I have to support so many who are so intellectually stunted that they feel the need to close off discussions about the POSSIBILITY of bettering our entire country by muttering a magic word ("socialist", "communist", "liberal") because it hurts their tiny little brains to actually ponder pros and cons.

So, how much do YOU love your country? 1% of us risk their lives for it, what about the other 99%? Do you love it enough to at least risk your wallet?

I risk my wallet every year when I pay taxes. I'm then rewarded by failed govt programs.

Like what? What failed programs exactly? Be specific.

Obamacare and other assorted agencies that got stuffed into one big bouquet of horseshit, HS. Its amazing how y'all love and need govt to lead you by the nose.

I don expect the gov to lead my life. I just appreciate the many functions you take for granted. I am all for paying my taxes to continue those functions. And no, I don't expect welfare.

Appreciate? Please. You REQUIRE them....And you believe in a captive system whereby everyone must pay for the stuff YOU want.

 

[Dragonlady]

So I take it you don't want roads, schools, sewers, running water, power, heat, hospitals, trained educated professionals to see to your needs, libraries, museums, and all of the other things that make life liveable in a first world country.

 

[bripat9643]

So I take it you don't want roads, schools, sewers, running water, power, heat, hospitals, trained educated professionals to see to your needs, libraries, museums, and all of the other things that make life liveable in a first world country.

Your belief that we can't have those things without government is obviously erroneous.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So I take it you don't want roads, schools, sewers, running water, power, heat, hospitals, trained educated professionals to see to your needs, libraries, museums, and all of the other things that make life liveable in a first world country.

You'll not gain any mileage with me by using an all or nothing straw man argument.

 

[oldernwiser]

That's actually untrue. Most of us love our country so much that we're willing to risk our wallets to make it better - even for the socially challenged. Personally, what I hate about the US is that it has to be home to so many people who think that THEY are 100% self-sufficient and screw those who stumble along the way. I hate that I have to support so many who are so intellectually stunted that they feel the need to close off discussions about the POSSIBILITY of bettering our entire country by muttering a magic word ("socialist", "communist", "liberal") because it hurts their tiny little brains to actually ponder pros and cons.

So, how much do YOU love your country? 1% of us risk their lives for it, what about the other 99%? Do you love it enough to at least risk your wallet?

I risk my wallet every year when I pay taxes. I'm then rewarded by failed govt programs.

Like what? What failed programs exactly? Be specific.

Obamacare and other assorted agencies that got stuffed into one big bouquet of horseshit, HS. Its amazing how y'all love and need govt to lead you by the nose.

I don expect the gov to lead my life. I just appreciate the many functions you take for granted. I am all for paying my taxes to continue those functions. And no, I don't expect welfare.

Appreciate? Please. You REQUIRE them....And you believe in a captive system whereby everyone must pay for the stuff YOU want.

Like big walls around the Mexican border? Or like jailing - sometimes for life - drug users? Or rounding up all the illegal aliens in the country and sending them back from whence they came? Or financing Big Oil exploration and transport of oil through our aquifers? Or building a military so large we can fight in 12 different conflicts simultaneously? Yep - those are the things I want... fer sher.

 

[Billy000]

That's actually untrue. Most of us love our country so much that we're willing to risk our wallets to make it better - even for the socially challenged. Personally, what I hate about the US is that it has to be home to so many people who think that THEY are 100% self-sufficient and screw those who stumble along the way. I hate that I have to support so many who are so intellectually stunted that they feel the need to close off discussions about the POSSIBILITY of bettering our entire country by muttering a magic word ("socialist", "communist", "liberal") because it hurts their tiny little brains to actually ponder pros and cons.

So, how much do YOU love your country? 1% of us risk their lives for it, what about the other 99%? Do you love it enough to at least risk your wallet?

I risk my wallet every year when I pay taxes. I'm then rewarded by failed govt programs.

Like what? What failed programs exactly? Be specific.

Obamacare and other assorted agencies that got stuffed into one big bouquet of horseshit, HS. Its amazing how y'all love and need govt to lead you by the nose.

I don expect the gov to lead my life. I just appreciate the many functions you take for granted. I am all for paying my taxes to continue those functions. And no, I don't expect welfare.

Appreciate? Please. You REQUIRE them....And you believe in a captive system whereby everyone must pay for the stuff YOU want.

Lol you don't even know me. Unlike you I don't mind paying my taxes. That makes you a mooch.

 

[oldernwiser]

I risk my wallet every year when I pay taxes. I'm then rewarded by failed govt programs.

Like what? What failed programs exactly? Be specific.

Obamacare and other assorted agencies that got stuffed into one big bouquet of horseshit, HS. Its amazing how y'all love and need govt to lead you by the nose.

I don expect the gov to lead my life. I just appreciate the many functions you take for granted. I am all for paying my taxes to continue those functions. And no, I don't expect welfare.

Appreciate? Please. You REQUIRE them....And you believe in a captive system whereby everyone must pay for the stuff YOU want.

Lol you don't even know me. Unlike you I don't mind paying my taxes. That makes you a mooch.

Actually, I DO mind paying taxes. I hate having to pay for government projects which do nothing to improve the lives of the people of this country. It frosts me to no end to see a budget sent to the president with special interest tax relief riders attached to it - that's stealing my money by not requiring everyone to pay their fair share and leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack.

 

[Billy000]

Like what? What failed programs exactly? Be specific.

Obamacare and other assorted agencies that got stuffed into one big bouquet of horseshit, HS. Its amazing how y'all love and need govt to lead you by the nose.

I don expect the gov to lead my life. I just appreciate the many functions you take for granted. I am all for paying my taxes to continue those functions. And no, I don't expect welfare.

Appreciate? Please. You REQUIRE them....And you believe in a captive system whereby everyone must pay for the stuff YOU want.

Lol you don't even know me. Unlike you I don't mind paying my taxes. That makes you a mooch.

Actually, I DO mind paying taxes. I hate having to pay for government projects which do nothing to improve the lives of the people of this country. It frosts me to no end to see a budget sent to the president with special interest tax relief riders attached to it - that's stealing my money by not requiring everyone to pay their fair share and leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack.

What do you think pays for our highways, military, and public schools?

 

[oldernwiser]

Obamacare and other assorted agencies that got stuffed into one big bouquet of horseshit, HS. Its amazing how y'all love and need govt to lead you by the nose.

I don expect the gov to lead my life. I just appreciate the many functions you take for granted. I am all for paying my taxes to continue those functions. And no, I don't expect welfare.

Appreciate? Please. You REQUIRE them....And you believe in a captive system whereby everyone must pay for the stuff YOU want.

Lol you don't even know me. Unlike you I don't mind paying my taxes. That makes you a mooch.

Actually, I DO mind paying taxes. I hate having to pay for government projects which do nothing to improve the lives of the people of this country. It frosts me to no end to see a budget sent to the president with special interest tax relief riders attached to it - that's stealing my money by not requiring everyone to pay their fair share and leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack.

What do you think pays for our highways, military, and public schools?

I don't mind paying for highways, some military, public schools, regulation for a clean environment - like I said, things that are used to better the lives of every citizen in some way. I wouldn't even mind kicking up tax rates to include a more inclusive food program or for national health. (Dear conservatives, I won't argue those points in this thread so don't go there!)

 

[Billy000]

I don expect the gov to lead my life. I just appreciate the many functions you take for granted. I am all for paying my taxes to continue those functions. And no, I don't expect welfare.

Appreciate? Please. You REQUIRE them....And you believe in a captive system whereby everyone must pay for the stuff YOU want.

Lol you don't even know me. Unlike you I don't mind paying my taxes. That makes you a mooch.

Actually, I DO mind paying taxes. I hate having to pay for government projects which do nothing to improve the lives of the people of this country. It frosts me to no end to see a budget sent to the president with special interest tax relief riders attached to it - that's stealing my money by not requiring everyone to pay their fair share and leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack.

What do you think pays for our highways, military, and public schools?

I don't mind paying for highways, some military, public schools, regulation for a clean environment - like I said, things that are used to better the lives of every citizen in some way. I wouldn't even mind kicking up tax rates to include a more inclusive food program or for national health. (Dear conservatives, I won't argue those points in this thread so don't go there!)

So what exactly are these government projects you speak of that you don't like paying for?

 

[oldernwiser]

Appreciate? Please. You REQUIRE them....And you believe in a captive system whereby everyone must pay for the stuff YOU want.

Lol you don't even know me. Unlike you I don't mind paying my taxes. That makes you a mooch.

Actually, I DO mind paying taxes. I hate having to pay for government projects which do nothing to improve the lives of the people of this country. It frosts me to no end to see a budget sent to the president with special interest tax relief riders attached to it - that's stealing my money by not requiring everyone to pay their fair share and leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack.

What do you think pays for our highways, military, and public schools?

I don't mind paying for highways, some military, public schools, regulation for a clean environment - like I said, things that are used to better the lives of every citizen in some way. I wouldn't even mind kicking up tax rates to include a more inclusive food program or for national health. (Dear conservatives, I won't argue those points in this thread so don't go there!)

So what exactly are these government projects you speak of that you don't like paying for?

How about building a big fence around the southern border. Or creating bigger government through special IDs for voting. I'm getting tired, so I'll end it there for now. There's a bunch of government agencies just waiting for the conservative nod to begin once proposed laws and policies are put in place.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I risk my wallet every year when I pay taxes. I'm then rewarded by failed govt programs.

Like what? What failed programs exactly? Be specific.

Obamacare and other assorted agencies that got stuffed into one big bouquet of horseshit, HS. Its amazing how y'all love and need govt to lead you by the nose.

I don expect the gov to lead my life. I just appreciate the many functions you take for granted. I am all for paying my taxes to continue those functions. And no, I don't expect welfare.

Appreciate? Please. You REQUIRE them....And you believe in a captive system whereby everyone must pay for the stuff YOU want.

Lol you don't even know me. Unlike you I don't mind paying my taxes. That makes you a mooch.

You evaded my observation with "you don't even know me"....To me, that's a "yes" to my observations.
hey genius. I may not like paying taxes, but taxation is necessary.
The part I don't like is when politicians use taxation to buy votes, to redistribute MY earnings to people or things that are a complete waste of time.
Also when politicians waste our money and then demand we pay more. For which we get nothing.