Beggar Territory

Baron

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Sep 19, 2008
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We watched another one of Zelensky's appeals, this time to Scholz. This one "Hey, can I have some Leopards? You've got some! You don't have any pity, do you?"
What a fucking shame and disgrace. There's an expression "Spanish shame," but it doesn't translate, it's time for "Hohlian shame."
All this "Give money, give weapons, give rockets, give tanks". The endless "give, give, give, give, give, give".

In 1991, Ukraine inherited everything from the USSR. One of the most powerful economies of Europe. Its own aircraft building, ship building, automobile building, rocket and missile building. Just three tank factories! Shell and ammunition production, too.
It could produce practically anything - from missiles to aircraft carriers!
The unique Yuzhmash was destroyed.
The shipyards (one of the largest in the world) - destroyed.
Aircraft building - destroyed.
The tank factories have been destroyed.
The automobile industry - destroyed.
Precision instrument making - destroyed.
One can go on and on. The result is invariable - demolished.
Remember, for a long time, for years the TV told about "advanced Ukrainian tanks "Oplot" (or "Oplit"? now it is impossible to make out that jargon)? Even in some games they made simulations, like "Oplot surpasses Armata! Overkill!".
And where? Produced three of them, took them to exhibitions, "do not touch with your hands, otherwise the glue will not hold - it will fall apart". There was even more mythical tank "Yatagan", but they try not to remember this disgrace at all.
Similar tales were told about (curl your fingers) BTR-4 "Bucephalus", armored vehicles "Bars", "Varta" and "Kozak", APC "Stugna" (repainted in other color Soviet "Fagot"), Grom multiple rocket launcher, SAU "Bogdana". If I were angry, I would also remember the Molot self-exploding soap box, which killed more Vsushniks than Separatists.
Instead of building aircraft carriers, Ukraine begs for rubber inflatable boats.
The inventors of the "best tank in the world" (bggg) are begging for obsolete Leopards 2 from the late seventies (new modifications are out of the question).
And so in everything.
Moreover, it was not the "evil Muscals" who destroyed all the rich Soviet heritage, but the Ukrainians themselves. Patriotic presidents, pro-Western oligarchs, and activists.
On the contrary, a few years ago, the "evil Muscals" offered numerous contracts (the Kharkov agreements, 42 different contracts) to save the aircraft, missile and shipbuilding industry. But the Viennese cava right into the lace underpants...
It's only in fairy tales composed about themselves (if you don't praise yourself, no one will) Ukrainians are industrious, resourceful and economical.
Long-term practice shows that there is nothing like that.
Lazy, greedy, envious and thieving - more like the truth.
They're like that grandfather from the goldfish joke:
- I want to have everything.
- Man, you already had everything.
And a broken trough...

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LOL, almost had an AOC moment but I see Leopards is a tank thing and not the cat. :)
 
Bernard at Moon Of Alabama has interesting tank observations .

QUOTE
The excuse Washington gives for not delivering Abrams tanks is not really believable. Yes, the turbine driven Abrams is guzzling a bit more fuel than the Leopard's diesel engine. But a turbine also requires less maintenance than a diesel engine which has many more moving parts.

Aside from the engine the Abrams do not have any significant parts that the Leopards do not have. Training for the use and maintenance of either does not differ in time needed or intensity.

There is also the false impression, pushed by some weapon dealers (in German), that there are 'hundreds' of Leopards available. This is nonsense. Not every Leopard is like the other. The most standardized variant is Leopard 2A4 one. In the end Ukraine could receive may be 50 of those. The current German standard tank is the Leopard 2A7 which had three upgrades since the A4 version came out. Various countries have versions in between, often with their own upgraded gun control and communication systems. It would not make any sense from a training and maintenance point to give Ukraine a smorgasbord of various Leopard types. The logistics to support those would immediately become unfeasible.

There are also other issues. Soviet era tanks have a weight of about 40 metric tons. All he 'western' Abrams, Leopard, British Challenger and French Leclerc main battle tanks have a battle weight in the 60 metric ton class. I doubt that Ukraine rural roads and bridges were constructed with such tanks in mind. What use is a tank when you can not move it around without destroying your own supply routes?

There is also the important issue of training. This does not only include the technology of the tank but its tactical use in the field. The Turkish experience in Syria showed that bad tank tactics inevitably lead to bad outcomes, no matter how good the tanks are.
 
LOL.....Man, I can’t wait till Russia loses, Putin is overthrown, and Russia opens up to Western style Democracy....You know, just like Iraq and Afghanistan. ;)
You have a long wait .
I pitched Nadal at 100-1 here , before the Oz Open .

Same odds for the Ukey Nazis , and the more americans that get involved , the longer the odds .
 

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