Before there was a "greatest generation"

[numan]

FDR and his thieving cohorts who stole the property of American Japanese citizens and placed them in gulogs for the duration of WW2 should have been indicted for any number of felonies including unlawful imprisonment but when you have the media and most other branches of government including SCOTUS in your back pocket any violation of the Constitution is possible.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!!

.

 

[Unkotare]

You're attempting to use the wrong group to defame FDR.

How exactly is pointing out undisputed historical FACTS 'defaming' the scumbag FDR?

Strange how the 238 noted historians and presidential experts that voted FDR as America's greatest president don't have access to your undisputed historical facts. You might try giving them a hand with their history. Can you recommend a book they might read to get those undisputed historical facts?

Why don't you lay off the logical fallacies and answer my question? There is not a legitimate historian who would dispute the FACT that FDR threw over 100,000 innocent people, a majority American citizens (and some of the finest Americans we've ever produced at that) into concentration camps during WWII. How is pointing out this FACT to an apologist like you "defaming" the scumbag FDR?

 

[regent]

How exactly is pointing out undisputed historical FACTS 'defaming' the scumbag FDR?

Strange how the 238 noted historians and presidential experts that voted FDR as America's greatest president don't have access to your undisputed historical facts. You might try giving them a hand with their history. Can you recommend a book they might read to get those undisputed historical facts?

Why don't you lay off the logical fallacies and answer my question? There is not a legitimate historian who would dispute the FACT that FDR threw over 100,000 innocent people, a majority American citizens (and some of the finest Americans we've ever produced at that) into concentration camps during WWII. How is pointing out this FACT to an apologist like you "defaming" the scumbag FDR?

One is not president for the number of years that FDR was president without making some mistakes and errors. This was one by FDR but that does not make him a scumbag president, and his purpose was to back up one of his generals that should have been dismissed from the service.
If that's the only fault you can find with FDR you should hit the books again, there are
more. In fact, historians probably know of more FDR errors than you or I, and they certainly knew of the camps, but they still rated FDR as America's greatest president.
By the way what were the logical fallacies?

 

[Unkotare]

In fact, historians probably know of more FDR errors than you or I, and they certainly knew of the camps, but they still rated FDR as America's greatest president.
By the way what were the logical fallacies?

Not including the one you just repeated while contradicting yourself?

 

[Unkotare]

One is not president for the number of years that FDR was president without making some mistakes and errors.

Oh, it was just a "mistake." Whoops, I slipped on the wet floor and accidentally threw over 100,000 innocent, loyal people into concentration camps! How silly of me!

 

[Unkotare]

If that's the only fault you can find with FDR ...

It isn't, and I never said it was. I have pointed out many others many times, including in this very thread. Pay attention instead of twisting yourself in Un-American knots trying to play the apologist for that scumbag.

 

[regent]

If that's the only fault you can find with FDR ...

It isn't, and I never said it was. I have pointed out many others many times, including in this very thread. Pay attention instead of twisting yourself in Un-American knots trying to play the apologist for that scumbag.

In any case you have your opinions and the historians and presidential experts have theirs, and I'll stick with the experts.

 

[numan]

'
Well, so many evil and monstrous crimes have occurred in America, the internment of the Japanese can get lost in the crush...However, I think some sort of argument can be made to justify the government's actions.

People today forget just how viciously racist most Americans were back in those days. Right after Pearl Harbor, intense hatred of the Japanese was widespread, and further whipped up by the media and government.

I think there was a considerable danger of the Japanese being lynched, murdered and otherwise attacked by Americans in one America's usual bouts of hysteria, especially along the West Coast -- and it certainly would have been a black-eye for the nation, especially as it tried to gather support in other regions of the world.

The government may have felt that it would be wise to put the Japanese in "protective custody", AKA concentration camps, to eliminate at least one of the headaches it was facing.

Of course, Americans, especially those who have money or hold government office, never miss an opportunity to cheat their fellow citizens, and the Japanese were shamefully robbed of their property and exploited in every way possible, but that is just the price of enjoying the advantages and freedoms of America and the glories of Free Enterprise, isn't it? After all, once they were released from confinement, the Japanese had the same opportunities to cheat their neighbors as their neighbors had to cheat them! The business of America is business, isn't it?

The government can be faulted for waiting so long to release the Japanese. Once it was obvious that the Allies were going to defeat Japan, war-time propaganda could easily have eased native-born American citizens of Japanese ancestry back into civilian life.

But procrastination and playing-it-safe are the life blood of government and bureaucracy, aren't they?

After all, even today, look at how long it takes the government to make the necessary decisions to keep itself from going insolvent!!
.

 

[regent]

In fact, historians probably know of more FDR errors than you or I, and they certainly knew of the camps, but they still rated FDR as America's greatest president.
By the way what were the logical fallacies?

Not including the one you just repeated while contradicting yourself?

Can you name the fallacies or not?

 

[Unkotare]

If that's the only fault you can find with FDR ...

It isn't, and I never said it was. I have pointed out many others many times, including in this very thread. Pay attention instead of twisting yourself in Un-American knots trying to play the apologist for that scumbag.

In any case you have your opinions and the historians and presidential experts have theirs, and I'll stick with the experts.

I have pointed out FACTS, and you have merely repeated logical fallacies.

 

[Unkotare]

In fact, historians probably know of more FDR errors than you or I, and they certainly knew of the camps, but they still rated FDR as America's greatest president.
By the way what were the logical fallacies?

Not including the one you just repeated while contradicting yourself?

Can you name the fallacies or not?

Since you seem unwilling to answer MY question I'll let you start by googling 'Appeal to Authority.'

 

[regent]

Not including the one you just repeated while contradicting yourself?

Can you name the fallacies or not?

Since you seem unwilling to answer MY question I'll let you start by googling 'Appeal to Authority.'

If it is an authority then it is not a fallacy. The historians were authorities on history.
Now if you had said DeMorgan's theorem I might have had to look it up.

 

[Unkotare]

Can you name the fallacies or not?

Since you seem unwilling to answer MY question I'll let you start by googling 'Appeal to Authority.'

If it is an authority then it is not a fallacy. .

Yes, it is. Appeal to authority is always a deductive fallacy. Don't bother trying to understand it - it is likely beyond you - just stop doing it. You cannot deny the FACTS I have presented by appealing to anyone else. Do you justify or excuse the scumbag FDR's actions in this regard? You have no one to hide behind. Do YOU or do YOU not justify or excuse his throwing over 100,000 innocent people, a majority of them US citizens, into concentration camps? Stop looking around for something or someone to hide behind and answer this fundamental question.

 

[regent]

Since you seem unwilling to answer MY question I'll let you start by googling 'Appeal to Authority.'

If it is an authority then it is not a fallacy. .

Yes, it is. Appeal to authority is always a deductive fallacy. Don't bother trying to understand it - it is likely beyond you - just stop doing it. You cannot deny the FACTS I have presented by appealing to anyone else. Do you justify or excuse the scumbag FDR's actions in this regard? You have no one to hide behind. Do YOU or do YOU not justify or excuse his throwing over 100,000 innocent people, a majority of them US citizens, into concentration camps? Stop looking around for something or someone to hide behind and answer this fundamental question.

"The fallacy of ad verecundian arises when the appeal is made to parties having no legitimate claim to authority in the matter at hand."
Intro to Logic. Copi and Cohen

I don't justify what FDR did but I understand some of the reasoning behind the act. FDR's reasoning was to protect the nation and the citizens, and to this end he trusted a general.
What was DeWitt's reasoning I don't know, later evidence indicates racism and pressure to destroy the Japanese-Americans competition in the vegetable market. In any case with hindsight FDR should not have followed the general's advice and dismissed him. But it was a new war with new dangers and it takes time to discover bad generals.
Anything else?

 

[Unkotare]

If it is an authority then it is not a fallacy. .

Yes, it is. Appeal to authority is always a deductive fallacy. Don't bother trying to understand it - it is likely beyond you - just stop doing it. You cannot deny the FACTS I have presented by appealing to anyone else. Do you justify or excuse the scumbag FDR's actions in this regard? You have no one to hide behind. Do YOU or do YOU not justify or excuse his throwing over 100,000 innocent people, a majority of them US citizens, into concentration camps? Stop looking around for something or someone to hide behind and answer this fundamental question.

"The fallacy of ad verecundian arises when the appeal is made to parties having no legitimate claim to authority in the matter at hand."
Intro to Logic. Copi and Cohen

If you ever got any further than copying and pasting one sentence from an Intro to Logic text, you might have some chance of understanding what I'm talking about. However, I do not have the time or inclination to teach you logic. An Appeal to Authority is always a deductive fallacy, whether you are capable of understanding that or not.

 

[Unkotare]

I don't justify what FDR did but I understand some of the reasoning behind the act.

So you excuse what he did?

 

[Unkotare]

FDR's reasoning was to protect the nation and the citizens, and to this end he trusted a general.
What was DeWitt's reasoning I don't know, later evidence indicates racism and pressure to destroy the Japanese-Americans competition in the vegetable market. In any case with hindsight FDR should not have followed the general's advice and dismissed him. But it was a new war with new dangers and it takes time to discover bad generals.

This sure sounds a lot like the automatic reaction of the modern democrat party of "It's Bush's fault!" to every crime, corruption, and failure of the obama administration. It's always someone else's fault, the buck can always be passed, and responsibility must be avoided at all costs. Some things never change, I guess.

This is entirely on FDR. He signed the Executive Order, he was the President, he is ultimately responsible no matter how much you feel the need to hide from that FACT. You can't even bring yourself to, directly and without condition, take your own personal position on this historic crime. Typical.

 

[regent]

FDR's reasoning was to protect the nation and the citizens, and to this end he trusted a general.
What was DeWitt's reasoning I don't know, later evidence indicates racism and pressure to destroy the Japanese-Americans competition in the vegetable market. In any case with hindsight FDR should not have followed the general's advice and dismissed him. But it was a new war with new dangers and it takes time to discover bad generals.

This sure sounds a lot like the automatic reaction of the modern democrat party of "It's Bush's fault!" to every crime, corruption, and failure of the obama administration. It's always someone else's fault, the buck can always be passed, and responsibility must be avoided at all costs. Some things never change, I guess.

This is entirely on FDR. He signed the Executive Order, he was the President, he is ultimately responsible no matter how much you feel the need to hide from that FACT. You can't even bring yourself to, directly and without condition, take your own personal position on this historic crime. Typical.

If you expect me to ventilate your feelings as if they are mine, forget it.
The army general in charge of the safety of the west coast at the beginning of World War II asked FDR if he might order the west coast cleared of people of Japanese heritage for the safety of the nation. FDR so ordered it. With hindsight many people now see that FDR following the general's advice was a mistake. Was the mistake done with malice on FDR's part or with the safety of the nation as the goal?
My personal feeling is that it was one of thousands of mistakes made during WWII. People evacuated, civilians killed and maimed, people bombed out of their homes, loved ones lost, money spent foolishly, thousands of American soldiers killed and disabled and on and on. It was one of those things, war is hell.

 

[whitehall]

'
Well, so many evil and monstrous crimes have occurred in America, the internment of the Japanese can get lost in the crush...However, I think some sort of argument can be made to justify the government's actions.

People today forget just how viciously racist most Americans were back in those days. Right after Pearl Harbor, intense hatred of the Japanese was widespread, and further whipped up by the media and government.

I think there was a considerable danger of the Japanese being lynched, murdered and otherwise attacked by Americans in one America's usual bouts of hysteria, especially along the West Coast -- and it certainly would have been a black-eye for the nation, especially as it tried to gather support in other regions of the world.

The government may have felt that it would be wise to put the Japanese in "protective custody", AKA concentration camps, to eliminate at least one of the headaches it was facing.

Of course, Americans, especially those who have money or hold government office, never miss an opportunity to cheat their fellow citizens, and the Japanese were shamefully robbed of their property and exploited in every way possible, but that is just the price of enjoying the advantages and freedoms of America and the glories of Free Enterprise, isn't it? After all, once they were released from confinement, the Japanese had the same opportunities to cheat their neighbors as their neighbors had to cheat them! The business of America is business, isn't it?

The government can be faulted for waiting so long to release the Japanese. Once it was obvious that the Allies were going to defeat Japan, war-time propaganda could easily have eased native-born American citizens of Japanese ancestry back into civilian life.

But procrastination and playing-it-safe are the life blood of government and bureaucracy, aren't they?

After all, even today, look at how long it takes the government to make the necessary decisions to keep itself from going insolvent!!
.

No surprise that the Brits would support FDR's crimes no matter what but there is no defense for what he did. You could make a case that non-citizen Japanese aliens might have been considered to be potential spies but FDR ordered ....he freaking ordered...Americans citizens to be incarcerated without due process. You could make a case (however slim) that all slanty eyed yellow American citizens were potential spies if FDR ordered them all to be incarcerated but they weren't. The Japanese were needed in Hawaii to make coffee for the admirals. Even though Hawaii was the hotbed of espionage the FDR order did not extend that far. It's pretty clear that FDR signed the order to make his California supporters rich when Japanese Americans had 48 hours to dispose of their fortunes and property. If there was any justice left in the United States after 10 years of FDR he should have been indicted and removed from office but it shows how far an administration can go when it has the total support of the media.

 

[Unkotare]

With hindsight many people now see that FDR following the general's advice was a mistake.

There it is again. Typical democrat avoidance of responsibility. You are STILL trying to insulate FDR from HIS RESPONSIBILITY for HIS DECISION because facing the cold, hard facts gets in the way of a misplaced hero-worship thing you've got going on for the worst scumbag to ever soil the office of President of the United States.

You can't even bring yourself to give your OWN opinion directly and without excuses and qualifications. Typical.