Before it is too late!

[editec]

Whomsoever pointed out what sweeping generalizations about the Islamic world we are attempting to foist off as the whole story is SPOT ON CORRECT.

We can no more generalize about the various Islamic empires and their policies, than we can generalize about the history of Europe over the last 1300 years.

SOMETIMES Islam nations and empires were most tolerant, and other times they were not.

But to deny that Islam's stupdendous advances were not at least in part the result of the scimitar is of course nonsense, too.

AT one point in time every Mediteranian nation was Chrisitian.

It took the armies to change that, folks.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Islam only expanded in the aftermath of the collapse of (eastern) Rome. They did so using VIOLENCE from Spain to India and into the Indonesian archipelago. The initial VIOLENT expansion was successful, but after that Islam stagnated. Sure they converted a few pagan barbarians who invaded their territory, but on the whole they went nowhere in over a 1000 years.

So either God abandoned them or God was never with them.

I'd say never with them.

 

[Kalam]

Islam only expanded in the aftermath of the collapse of (eastern) Rome. They did so using VIOLENCE from Spain to India and into the Indonesian archipelago. The initial VIOLENT expansion was successful, but after that Islam stagnated.

Islam has never really stagnated in terms of growth. That's why it will soon overtake Christianity as the single largest religion in the world. Development slowed after the Mongol invasion and the subsequent centuries of foreign hegemony, but attributing that to Islam itself is historically inaccurate.

Sure they converted a few pagan barbarians who invaded their territory, but on the whole they went nowhere in over a 1000 years.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So either God abandoned them or God was never with them.

Every group of people that experiences some sort of hardship has been forsaken by God, then?

 

[Diuretic]

I reckon the West missed a golden opportunity to support progressive Islam in the 1950s. My reference for that is the final chapter (or penultimate one) of Alfred Guillaum's Islam (can't find it at the moment, moved house and my books are still in boxes). I think it was about the mid-1950s about the time of the Suez Crisis and Nasser in Egypt and the various independence (ie anti-colonial, anti-imperialist) movements in countries such as Syria were on the move. The West crunched down on the largely secular independence movements for pure economic reasons such as when they went apeshit over Nasser nationalising the canal. I have to admit I'd be pretty bloody cranky if my country were under the heel of western imperialists simply for its resources.

Anyway, that book by Guillaume is a great read for anyone interested in Islam minus the usual bullshit from either side.

 

[Tariq]

America you have elected the Negro saviour to clear your collective infidelic consciences....OBAMA AKBAR

 

[ekrem]

Look at modern history. Where has Great Britain gone? Where has Communist Russia gone? Where has France gone? Where is Nazi Germany? Where did all these superpowers go? Allah who made them disappear will make America disappear too. Allah who made Russia disappear overnight is capable of making America disappear and fall, Allah willing.

We Muslims have ruled the world before, and by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again. The day will come when we will rule America. The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world. Listen to the Prophet Muhammad, who tells you about the evil end that awaits the infidel. Join us today before it is too late.

There are nations in this world, that did continously influence the history of this planet.
I do not mean " 1-hit wonders " like the Mongols. You can never rule-out that nations like Germans or Russians will bounce back. Ups and Downs, but always relevant.

As for USA... They are a " 1 hit Wonder " so far, but still rolling. Probably it will not be during our lifetime to observe if they have the ability to bounce back, once their omni-potent presence in actual world decreases.

Muslim world is fragmented. As a whole Muslims can only be relevant in 21st centurie's multipolar world order, once a Muslim Power subdues a huge chunk of other Muslim nations under its guidance.

These kind of things dont work with praying and prophecies.

 

[Foxfyre]

Islam only expanded in the aftermath of the collapse of (eastern) Rome. They did so using VIOLENCE from Spain to India and into the Indonesian archipelago. The initial VIOLENT expansion was successful, but after that Islam stagnated. Sure they converted a few pagan barbarians who invaded their territory, but on the whole they went nowhere in over a 1000 years.

So either God abandoned them or God was never with them.

Your grasp of history is pretty well on target at least as I understand the rise and fall of Islam. At the beginning, Islam was a visionary and productive way of life and they advanced quite rapidly at the beginning and contributed many new scientific discoveries. They were expanding their sphere of influence so broadly and rapidly, I do think they had a potential for conquering the entire known world at that time.

However, as Christianity would do, islam became ingrown and fanatical and abandoned its vision in favor of rigid rules and dogma with strict enforcement that stifled creative thought and advancement. Christianity under control of corrupt popes and monarchs did much the same bringing us such phenomena as the crusades and the Inquisition.

Christianity, however, responded to the Renaissance, moved into Reformation, and became something quite different than it was in its medieval inertia stage.

Islam, unfortunately, has not had its Reformation and continues to control and stifle the human spirit. Which is why most people under Islamic control live in abject poverty and are so susceptible to violent stimulus. They are often not allowed to think for themselves and therefore are more effectively controled.

Having said, that we have absolutely wonderful Muslim neighbors that are exemplary citizens and good friends to all. Needless to say, they are not strictly orthodox.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Having said, that we have absolutely wonderful Muslim neighbors that are exemplary citizens and good friends to all. Needless to say, they are not strictly orthodox.

Needless.
I find there are three major types of Islamic worshipers
1) Decent folks who try to live in harmony with their neighbors.
2) Mad Dogs who practice violence against anyone who is other.
3) Cowards who want to be Mad Dogs but lack the balls.
Strangely, only the third type can be found on the internet.

 

[amrchaos]

I hate to tell you buddy

But it looks like a nuclear war will break out before Islam(or any other religion, in fact) rule the world.

Better start learning about pluralism--that is the direction the world heading in.
Or at least on how to bribe officers in other goverments, considering all the oil money that is pumped into the middle east.

Just saying

 

[Diuretic]

Having said, that we have absolutely wonderful Muslim neighbors that are exemplary citizens and good friends to all. Needless to say, they are not strictly orthodox.

Needless.
I find there are three major types of Islamic worshipers
1) Decent folks who try to live in harmony with their neighbors.
2) Mad Dogs who practice violence against anyone who is other.
3) Cowards who want to be Mad Dogs but lack the balls.
Strangely, only the third type can be found on the internet.

In terms of % I think 1) would be 90% or more, the other two could fight about how much of the %10 they make up.

 

[Foxfyre]

Having said, that we have absolutely wonderful Muslim neighbors that are exemplary citizens and good friends to all. Needless to say, they are not strictly orthodox.

Needless.
I find there are three major types of Islamic worshipers
1) Decent folks who try to live in harmony with their neighbors.
2) Mad Dogs who practice violence against anyone who is other.
3) Cowards who want to be Mad Dogs but lack the balls.
Strangely, only the third type can be found on the internet.

In terms of % I think 1) would be 90% or more, the other two could fight about how much of the %10 they make up.

I think it depends on concentration. While there are individuals or small groups who are intentionally radicalized and whose very being is intent on creating as much death, destruction, and mayhem as possible, most Muslims in small groups do indeed fit into the #1 group up there.

But we are seeing it happen in Europe (the UK, France, and Denmark come to mind) in which larger concentrations result in more emphatic control and enforcement of Sharia law and orthodox Islamic notions. As the larger society feels more empowered to become more "Muslim", you see Muslim 'ghettos' develop and more and more pressure on local and national governments to accommodate and make concessions to the Islamic pressence. And once the Muslims gain control of the government, no rights exist for the people other than what the government decides they may have on any given day. Poverty increases as does pockets of exremism.

Perhaps there are exceptions, but I can't think of any at the moment.

 

[Diuretic]

Needless.
I find there are three major types of Islamic worshipers
1) Decent folks who try to live in harmony with their neighbors.
2) Mad Dogs who practice violence against anyone who is other.
3) Cowards who want to be Mad Dogs but lack the balls.
Strangely, only the third type can be found on the internet.

In terms of % I think 1) would be 90% or more, the other two could fight about how much of the %10 they make up.

I think it depends on concentration. While there are individuals or small groups who are intentionally radicalized and whose very being is intent on creating as much death, destruction, and mayhem as possible, most Muslims in small groups do indeed fit into the #1 group up there.

But we are seeing it happen in Europe (the UK, France, and Denmark come to mind) in which larger concentrations result in more emphatic control and enforcement of Sharia law and orthodox Islamic notions. As the larger society feels more empowered to become more "Muslim", you see Muslim 'ghettos' develop and more and more pressure on local and national governments to accommodate and make concessions to the Islamic pressence. And once the Muslims gain control of the government, no rights exist for the people other than what the government decides they may have on any given day. Poverty increases as does pockets of exremism.

Perhaps there are exceptions, but I can't think of any at the moment.

I live in Australia. To our north we have the most populous Muslim nation on earth. That nation, Indonesia, is working with our authorities to deal with Muslim terrorists, mainly Jemiah Islamiah. They have arrested, tried and executed Muslim terrorists, they are not harbouring them or giving them comfort. In this country and in other western countries (culturally speaking) there are smallish Muslim communities and a minor percentage of those communities have radicalised Imams and followers.

We have had hundreds of years of contact with Muslims. Our northern coasts were visited and temporarily settled on a regular basis by Moluccan fishers, some of whom settled with aboriginal women hundreds of years before the first permanent European settlement in 1788.

We have had Muslim immigrants since the early 19th Century, the first mosque was built in an isolated area of my state, it’s now disused, but in my city we have the oldest continually used mosque in Australia, built in the late 19th Century.

We have a number of mosques which are well attended. And we don’t hear a peep of radicalism from any of them. I know that in Britain, which probably has a higher population of Muslims per capita than Australia, they have had some dangerous, radicalised Imams and followers. Some have been deported, others are on the list. And rightly so. But again, a small minority.

In terms of Muslims being given concessions by governments, details are important. But on one, Sharia, it seems to me that provided that non-Muslims aren’t affected and that the tenets don’t breach secular law, there shouldn’t be much of a problem.

In Britain there is no official separation of church and state. At the moment the official state religion is Christian (Church of England).

I suppose if and when the majority of Britons are Muslim then they could probably argue for Islam to become the official state religion, but I think there may be some constitutional issues to be overcome.