Battle of Bakhmud won by Russia

[Litwin]

Moscow closer to its first major victory

Armed Forces of Ukraine could cut off GRU Wagner in Bakhmut from the main group of Moscow troops, Prigozhin wrote a letter to Shoigu

sounds more and more like🇷🇺 1917 :thup:

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[badger2]

Spring Equinox. Battle for the Center.

 

[ESay]

Encircle a heavily fortified front-line with stepped up 15-25 km in depth trench defense lines? what PC war-game army did you serve in?

Yes, it was exactly what they were trying to do when so called battle for Donbas started in May.

Not encircle a 'frontline'. Encircle those troops that manned those fortified positions. To circumvent then from the flancs.

As I stated before; upon the RF having taken Lysychansk, holding onto Lyman became meaningless

The Russians got out of Lyman almost four months later after taking Lysychansk. Ukrainian army liberated Lyman in the result of a counter-offensive push in Kharkiv oblast.

Of course they planned to seize Sloviansk-Kramatorsk agglomeration. Otherwise, why they tried to seize Barvinkove?

Take a map and start to place colored pins or unit tactical signs on it, to get an idea as to what you are talking and judging about

Thanks, I have this map. But it doesn't help with dishonest pieces that constantly try to spin retreats into some form of victory.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Any learned and open minded person knows as to what this Ukraine issue is about. Only deniers and ignorant fools can't admit to those issues. And instead flee into democracy and freedom of the Ukraine people diversion.
Any responsible politician (our West doesn't have any) very latest since 2014 would have invoked a neutrality of Ukraine towards NATO and CIS. Setting clear assurances/guarantees as to what e.g. NATO or the EU will do in case Russia should attack Ukraine. In such a scenario Ukraine would have never been placed into the present disastrous situation. Russia's military in the event of an attack onto Ukraine would have been literally annihilated within 6 month and Putin couldn't and wouldn't use nukes, since he couldn't have justified his attack onto Ukraine with the arguments he used since Feb. 2022 in the first place.

With Ukraine being neutral, Putin would have had no reason to attack Ukraine - he and the West would have simply continued with destabilization attempts onto Ukraine's government and society.
Just as it is being done all over the world, every single day, by all countries without necessarily resulting in a war. Only totally incompetent politicians get themselves dragged into a war due to "diplomatic games".

But hey, why risk Western commitment towards democracy/freedom and (God forbid) own lives - if a proxy war is sooo much more fun for our totally incapable and dumbfucked Western politicians.

The unedited part of my post you are responding to is:

"It's true that I have no idea what Russia could possibly gain from Ukraine that would justify the terrible cost it is suffering by pursuing it, and clearly neither do you or you would have posted it. Putin has been feeding crap about Russia to the Russian people for years, and you're still saying, yum yum."

So the issue is not why Putin invaded Ukraine but if there is anything in Ukraine that is worth all the terrible cost Russia is suffering by pursuing this war, and again, it is clear you have no idea what that might be.

In the rest of your rambling post, you make it clear you are uncertain why Putin invaded Ukraine, but you are certain the West is to blame for it.

 

[L.K.Eder]

so. can the resident natashas give us some moar news?

 

[Kruska]

....So the issue is not why Putin invaded Ukraine but if there is anything in Ukraine that is worth all the terrible cost Russia is suffering by pursuing this war, and again, it is clear you have no idea what that might be.

I very well do - you simply can't read or acknowledge facts - since I had already explained it to you.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I very well do - you simply can't read or acknowledge facts - since I had already explained it to you.

Just the opposite is true. You have been unable to explain what there was in Ukraine that warrants all the damage this war is doing to Russia and you have been unable to explain why Putin invaded in the first place.

 

[Kruska]

Yes, it was exactly what they were trying to do when so called battle for Donbas started in May.
Not encircle a 'frontline'. Encircle those troops that manned those fortified positions. To circumvent then from the flancs.

You need to take the flanks and the center of a designated front-line object.
That is precisely as to what the RF is doing since May/June 2022 - rather very, very, slow - but so far successful. If it will also be sucessful in regards to Bakhmut and Avdiivka - we will see.

Russia did not have the forces to take control of the presently occupied southern and eastern territories, and attack a designated object along the prepared and heavily fortified front line running from Luhansk to Donbas from Feb. to May 2022.
If you remember, the RF had overrun almost 18000km2 in the first 3 weeks - additionally to the territory they now presently still occupy. These 18000 km2 have since April 2022 all been liberated by the UAF - due to extensive fighting? I will leave that up to you. I would even dare to state, that the disorganized and mostly chaotic RF retreats cost them more equipment and troops then if they would have put up a fight.

The Russians got out of Lyman almost four months later after taking Lysychansk. Ukrainian army liberated Lyman in the result of a counter-offensive push in Kharkiv oblast.

Lysychansk was taken on 5th of July, then until today RF and UAF dug themselves in 10-15 km West of Lysyschansk. The RF had already redeployed large formations from the Kharkiv front (starting in May) down to Luhansk Oblast to support it's attack onto Sievierdonesk and Lysychansk. Therefore exposing the 7000km2 towards a UAF attack that resulted in taking back e.g. Lyman on 2nd of October. Since the RF did not have the forces to take Kharkiv and Lysychansk/Sievierdonesk - holding on to those 7000km2 where the RF had already pulled out most of it's forces made no sense.

As such the UAF got an easy victory - and is now committed towards reinforcing troops in a 7000km2 area that is of no strategic value - unless the UAF could push through to the Troitske - Svatove - Kremina front-line or even further towards e.g. Starobilsk. (the latter would indeed be a strategic victory) towards the liberation of Ukraine.

Of course they planned to seize Sloviansk-Kramatorsk agglomeration. Otherwise, why they tried to seize Barvinkove?

No, the RF never had the resources to do that - but the RF trick/feint worked - since Zelinsky ordered the UAF out of the Lysychansk pocket and ordered the civilian evacuation of Sloviansk.

 

[badger2]

UAF is between a rock and a hard place: moving reinforcements to either Bakhmut or Avdiivka.

 

[ESay]

As such the UAF got an easy victory - and is now committed towards reinforcing troops in a 7000km2 area that is of no strategic value - unless the UAF could push through to the Troitske - Svatove - Kremina front-line or even further towards e.g. Starobilsk. (the latter would indeed be a strategic victory) towards the liberation of Ukraine

By this 7000 km2 you mean liberated Kharkiv oblast? Yeah, pushing the invaders back from the second largest city and eliminating threat from northern flank for main Ukrainian army grouping in Sloviansk agglomeration has no strategic value, indeed.

No, the RF never had the resources to do that - but the RF trick/feint worked - since Zelinsky ordered the UAF out of the Lysychansk pocket and ordered the civilian evacuation of Sloviansk

'RF never had resources' should be the main slogan for Russian military campaign in Ukraine. They never had recourses for large scale offensive from those directions they all that starred. They never had resources to hold the territories they seized.

And as a result of that cool stories about 'worked feints' emerge. The first was the Kiev feint. I am surprised that Odesa feint wasn't so popular. Though, instead of that there were stories about Kherson swamp lands that have no strategic value.

Now I hear about Sloviansk feint. I am good with that. I wish more feints to happen. I wonder this Bakhmut push will also become feint after some time?

 

[Litwin]

Spring Equinox. Battle for the Center.

 

[badger2]

Bahmut

 

[skye]

But we knew this a long time ago....the writing was on the wall all the time!

Bakhmut Falls, Artyomovsk Rises – Strategic and Symbolic City in Eastern Ukraine Fully Encircled by Russian Forces – Kiev Leaves 10k Soldiers Trapped in the ‘Cauldron’​

Mar. 22, 2023

Bakhmut Falls, Artyomovsk Rises - Strategic and Symbolic City in Eastern Ukraine Fully Encircled by Russian Forces - Kiev Leaves 10k Soldiers Trapped in the 'Cauldron' | The Gateway Pundit | by Paul Serran

The Battle for Bakhmut/Artyomovsk has been widely considered one of the toughest since the Second World War.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[badger2]

More volunteers.

 

[Kruska]

...'RF never had resources' should be the main slogan for Russian military campaign in Ukraine. They never had recourses for large scale offensive from those directions they all that starred. They never had resources to hold the territories they seized...

You just made a huge leap forward in regards to correctly assessing the Russian attack issue since Feb. 2022 - congratulations.

 

[Kruska]

UAF is between a rock and a hard place: moving reinforcements to either Bakhmut or Avdiivka.

The UAF is/will be certainly moving further reinforcements towards Bakhmut and Avdiivika to fill up/strengthen an already prepared defensive line extending behind e.g. Bakhmut from Konstitantynivka to Chasiv Yar to Novamarkove to Yurkivka - If a major UAF attack is still going to happen in the next 4 month, with those "reserved units" - IMO it will be directed towards Svatove/Kreminna/Starobilsk.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[ESay]

You just made a huge leap forward in regards to correctly assessing the Russian attack issue since Feb. 2022 - congratulations.

Cool. And now I return back to my first post and will repeat that the Putin regime certainly didn't expect serious resistance in Ukraine. Otherwise, their offensive campaign from four main directions didn't make sense.

Simple logic tells that the best strategy would have been a move into the Donbas region to encircle and crush the main Ukrainian army grouping there.

 

[Kruska]

Cool. And now I return back to my first post and will repeat that the Putin regime certainly didn't expect serious resistance in Ukraine. Otherwise, their offensive campaign from four main directions didn't make sense.

Simple logic tells that the best strategy would have been a move into the Donbas region to encircle and crush the main Ukrainian army grouping there.

And Putin was correct - there was absolutely no serious Ukraine resistance in the first 8 days - INTIMIDATION - Putin's favorite tool. And again to overrun the mostly Northern-Ukraine and threaten to take Kiev, did not allow the RF forces to get entangled in the heavily fortified front-line running through Donbass and Luhansk. Either or - and Putin decided to go for Kiev - which made absolute sense in view of his disposable force.

In retrospect off course it is now easy to forward Putin should have attacked the Donbass front-line. It might have given him some territorial advantage in Donbas as compared to now, but such an attack would never have persuaded/sufficed for Kiev to give up the fight. So he had to and decided correctly to go for Kiev.

As I stated already many times; I see no realistic case for the Russian MoD to believe that they could conquer Ukraine as such - especially not with those available forces. But instead (I can't proof it) to move into Kiev, due to a beforehand-planed and in paralell executed political takeover. Which had worked out in essence quite well in the Southern Front from Crimea towards Kherson and Mariupol.

From around 6th of March it became evident that Russia aka Putin pulled back all of his Northern Force towards Kharkiv (due to then forming Ukrainian counter measures) and then down to Luhansk and Donbass. Deciding to move towards a war of attrition in regards to Ukraine whilst taking further control of Donbass and Lukansk Oblast. I am however sure that neither Putin nor the Russian MoD had anticipated the huge weapons and ammo support by NATO, foremost that by the USA.

 

[ESay]

And Putin was correct - there was absolutely no serious Ukraine resistance in the first 8 days - INTIMIDATION - Putin's favorite tool. And again to overrun the mostly Northern-Ukraine and threaten to take Kiev, did not allow the RF forces to get entangled in the heavily fortified front-line running through Donbass and Luhansk. Either or - and Putin decided to go for Kiev - which made absolute sense in view of his disposable force.

In retrospect off course it is now easy to forward Putin should have attacked the Donbass front-line. It might have given him some territorial advantage in Donbas as compared to now, but such an attack would never have persuaded/sufficed for Kiev to give up the fight. So he had to and decided correctly to go for Kiev.

As I stated already many times; I see no realistic case for the Russian MoD to believe that they could conquer Ukraine as such - especially not with those available forces. But instead (I can't proof it) to move into Kiev, due to a beforehand-planed and in paralell executed political takeover. Which had worked out in essence quite well in the Southern Front from Crimea towards Kherson and Mariupol.

From around 6th of March it became evident that Russia aka Putin pulled back all of his Northern Force towards Kharkiv (due to then forming Ukrainian counter measures) and then down to Luhansk and Donbass. Deciding to move towards a war of attrition in regards to Ukraine whilst taking further control of Donbass and Lukansk Oblast. I am however sure that neither Putin nor the Russian MoD had anticipated the huge weapons and ammo support by NATO, foremost that by the USA.

Yeah, to avoid getting entangled in Donbas they decided to stretch their frontline on a thousand of miles just to withdraw their troops afterwards because 'they didn't have the resources' and get entangled there for almost a year. And you have a nerve to call this strategy 'correct'. Sorry, I fail to comprehend this high-end reasoning.

'They hadn't anticipated' should be proclaimed as another slogan of their campaign.

 

[Kruska]

Yeah, to avoid getting entangled in Donbas they decided to stretch their frontline on a thousand of miles just to withdraw their troops afterwards because 'they didn't have the resources' and get entangled there for almost a year. And you have a nerve to call this strategy 'correct'. Sorry, I fail to comprehend this high-end reasoning.

So according to you the Wehrmacht having taken Brest-Litowsk in the first week of operation Barbarossa, and broken through the main Russian defense line, resulted in Stalin surrendering?
You got to be kidding.
But you believe that the RF having attacked e.g. Bahkmut and broken through the main UAF defense line would have made Zelinsky in Kiev 500mls away surrender? You got nerves man

Russia having assembled it's total force of 95.000 combat troops, thousands of tanks/APC/AFC and artillery plus approximately 120,000 support and militia troops all in Donbas would have gone unnoticed by the UAF? you really know how to entertain
And the UAF forces stationed just opposite Crimea - from Odessa to Mariupol would have stood by and watched? You must be a strategic genius
And the UAF forces stationed at Kharkiv right down along to Lysyschansk would also have stood by and watched? wow what a tactical master you are
And the UAF forces stationed from the Belarus border to Kiev right down to central Ukraine would........... what on earth are you dreaming and talking about?

Anyway let's not discuss on this subject anymore - it's getting very tiresome, have a nice day