Bastiat

ladyliberal

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Well, I only know about him what I read in Wikipedia. Is there something specific you want to discuss, or do you just want to know whether people like him?
 

uscitizen

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Bastiat? Do not know of the person or whatever it is.
And at this point in my life I am not interested in finding out.
 
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rckirby

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Well, I only know about him what I read in Wikipedia. Is there something specific you want to discuss, or do you just want to know whether people like him?
Since you as a 'liberal' only relies on 'wiki', then I expect no further intelligent discussion. Do a little bit of research outside of 'wiki' and read about the 'broken window'....

I will wait with baited breath for some 'non-partisan hack' discussion.
 

ladyliberal

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Well, I only know about him what I read in Wikipedia. Is there something specific you want to discuss, or do you just want to know whether people like him?
Since you as a 'liberal' only relies on 'wiki', then I expect no further intelligent discussion. Do a little bit of research outside of 'wiki' and read about the 'broken window'....

I will wait with baited breath for some 'non-partisan hack' discussion.
So, you get to ignore my question and insult me. I get to read what you want me to read. That doesn't seem like a great deal for me.
 
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rckirby

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Bastiat? Do not know of the person or whatever it is.
And at this point in my life I am not interested in finding out.
How sad.
This is a no holds bared message board my friend, just letting you know. I have not been here in a little while but I will look at the material you linked to.
I know what you are saying.............I get frustrated by our home forum, and came here to have intelligent discussion........but it seems like the partisans have taken over both, with little interest in having a non-partisan discussion...........no wonder I see fewer and fewer posts by BGG............he is my forum 'hero'. (You know of whom I speak)
 
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rckirby

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Well, I only know about him what I read in Wikipedia. Is there something specific you want to discuss, or do you just want to know whether people like him?
Since you as a 'liberal' only relies on 'wiki', then I expect no further intelligent discussion. Do a little bit of research outside of 'wiki' and read about the 'broken window'....

I will wait with baited breath for some 'non-partisan hack' discussion.
So, you get to ignore my question and insult me. I get to read what you want me to read. That doesn't seem like a great deal for me.
Didn't mean to insult you..........just please read Bastiat's writing on 'The Broken Window'.

That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat

And lets have a discussion. That's all I'm asking.
 

Intense

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Well, since its the typical libs responding, I guess I have to spoon feed:

That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat

"The Broken Window" would be a good place to start a discussion.........I won't hold my breath for that.
No offense, but I think it is a False Premise, Rooted in Specific Actions, with Specific consequences, Viewed as Universal Rule.

How about stepping back a few steps and let's distinguish and consider. What motivates? What motivates Vision, Discovery, Invention? Experience, Circumstance, Epiphany, even events that may appear accidental or misguided.

Let's distinguish between Moral Absolutism and Moral Relativism. Let's distinguish between Cause and Effect, both intended and unintended, those we are aware of and those we are not. Lets consider the multiple tangents created by these, or at least the possibility.

Intention, what is it rooted in? What is it's Purpose? Do we have a cause? Do we have a means to attain our Goal? Is it Moral? Ethical? Can we attain our Goal without Sinning against Man, Nature, or God? Are we acting rashly? Spontaneously? Out of weakness, Desperation, Strength?

Where does Purpose fit in to the Equation? Is it possible to address a need, apply a remedy to a specific circumstance, looking for an exact remedy, tailored to that specific circumstance, if we try hard enough? Every Circumstance is unique, it will have both similarities and dissimilarities, to those we compare it to. Our effort to act, by what degree do we measure it? 10 fold? 30 fold? 100 fold?

How about this, measure twice, cut once?
 

Jackson

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A careless child throws a ball and breaks a window. It costs 6 francs to repair the window. The repairman receives the money for the repair and is encouraged with his fee. However the parents have no money to buy food. It is cold and they are warm =because the window is fixed, but starve to death due to hunger.

The repairman has steak for dinner.

Am I close?
 

Jackson

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Well, since its the typical libs responding, I guess I have to spoon feed:

That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat

"The Broken Window" would be a good place to start a discussion.........I won't hold my breath for that.
No offense, but I think it is a False Premise, Rooted in Specific Actions, with Specific consequences, Viewed as Universal Rule.

How about stepping back a few steps and let's distinguish and consider. What motivates? What motivates Vision, Discovery, Invention? Experience, Circumstance, Epiphany, even events that may appear accidental or misguided.

Let's distinguish between Moral Absolutism and Moral Relativism. Let's distinguish between Cause and Effect, both intended and unintended, those we are aware of and those we are not. Lets consider the multiple tangents created by these, or at least the possibility.

Intention, what is it rooted in? What is it's Purpose? Do we have a cause? Do we have a means to attain our Goal? Is it Moral? Ethical? Can we attain our Goal without Sinning against Man, Nature, or God? Are we acting rashly? Spontaneously? Out of weakness, Desperation, Strength?

Where does Purpose fit in to the Equation? Is it possible to address a need, apply a remedy to a specific circumstance, looking for an exact remedy, tailored to that specific circumstance, if we try hard enough? Every Circumstance is unique, it will have both similarities and dissimilarities, to those we compare it to. Our effort to act, by what degree do we measure it? 10 fold? 30 fold? 100 fold?

How about this, measure twice, cut once?
No offense Intense, but my story is easier to read and only requires one reading without great thought. I think I win.
 

LoneLaugher

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This is great. We risk disappointing this gentleman if we don't read the work that he wants to discuss. If nobody feels like discussing the ideas of Bastiat, this forum will have proven to be an utter failure.

The pressure! I don't know if we can take it!
 

Intense

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Well, since its the typical libs responding, I guess I have to spoon feed:

That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat

"The Broken Window" would be a good place to start a discussion.........I won't hold my breath for that.
No offense, but I think it is a False Premise, Rooted in Specific Actions, with Specific consequences, Viewed as Universal Rule.

How about stepping back a few steps and let's distinguish and consider. What motivates? What motivates Vision, Discovery, Invention? Experience, Circumstance, Epiphany, even events that may appear accidental or misguided.

Let's distinguish between Moral Absolutism and Moral Relativism. Let's distinguish between Cause and Effect, both intended and unintended, those we are aware of and those we are not. Lets consider the multiple tangents created by these, or at least the possibility.

Intention, what is it rooted in? What is it's Purpose? Do we have a cause? Do we have a means to attain our Goal? Is it Moral? Ethical? Can we attain our Goal without Sinning against Man, Nature, or God? Are we acting rashly? Spontaneously? Out of weakness, Desperation, Strength?

Where does Purpose fit in to the Equation? Is it possible to address a need, apply a remedy to a specific circumstance, looking for an exact remedy, tailored to that specific circumstance, if we try hard enough? Every Circumstance is unique, it will have both similarities and dissimilarities, to those we compare it to. Our effort to act, by what degree do we measure it? 10 fold? 30 fold? 100 fold?

How about this, measure twice, cut once?
No offense Intense, but my story is easier to read and only requires one reading without great thought. I think I win.
I'm not here for a Pissing contest. Good Luck with that. Clean up when you are done. He wanted a discussion, or an opinion. Just calling as I see it.
 

Jackson

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No offense, but I think it is a False Premise, Rooted in Specific Actions, with Specific consequences, Viewed as Universal Rule.

How about stepping back a few steps and let's distinguish and consider. What motivates? What motivates Vision, Discovery, Invention? Experience, Circumstance, Epiphany, even events that may appear accidental or misguided.

Let's distinguish between Moral Absolutism and Moral Relativism. Let's distinguish between Cause and Effect, both intended and unintended, those we are aware of and those we are not. Lets consider the multiple tangents created by these, or at least the possibility.

Intention, what is it rooted in? What is it's Purpose? Do we have a cause? Do we have a means to attain our Goal? Is it Moral? Ethical? Can we attain our Goal without Sinning against Man, Nature, or God? Are we acting rashly? Spontaneously? Out of weakness, Desperation, Strength?

Where does Purpose fit in to the Equation? Is it possible to address a need, apply a remedy to a specific circumstance, looking for an exact remedy, tailored to that specific circumstance, if we try hard enough? Every Circumstance is unique, it will have both similarities and dissimilarities, to those we compare it to. Our effort to act, by what degree do we measure it? 10 fold? 30 fold? 100 fold?

How about this, measure twice, cut once?
No offense Intense, but my story is easier to read and only requires one reading without great thought. I think I win.
I'm not here for a Pissing contest. Good Luck with that. Clean up when you are done. He wanted a discussion, or an opinion. Just calling as I see it.
I can't cut the mustard, my friend. In no mood for thinking that hard this evening, as you can tell. I'm impressed with your efforts and apologize for my attempt at humor.
 

ladyliberal

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Here's my understanding of Bastiat's broken window scenario:

- boy breaks shopkeeper's window
- shopkeeper pays glazier to repair window

and the effects:

- the glazier has received payment in excess of his costs, making him happy the window was broken
- the shopkeeper has his window back, but is unhappy because he had to pay for it

Overall, the effect on society is a cost in the glazier's labor in materials, along with a transfer payment from shopkeeper to glazier. While the glazier is pleased the window was broken, society as a whole has been harmed by the experience.

Apparently, there was a school of thought Bastiat identified with one "M. F. Chamans" that held that such a broken window scenario would actually improve society. Chamans would see the glazier's enrichment, while failing to note that the shopkeeper's impoverishment exceeded it. Chamans went so far as to say that society might be enriched by the burning (and subsequent rebuilding) of Paris. Such a view may have had its adherents, but was never popular enough to actually result in the burning of Paris.

The parable is illustrative, but to the modern mind, the conclusion (that breaking windows is bad for society as a whole) seems fairly intuitive. I believe I agree with Bastiat here, and perhaps his point was quite insightful when it was made, but such considerations are so much a part of the modern economic perspective that I don't see any additional insight to be gleaned from Bastiat's parable.

I'm sure there are some few people out there who would indeed advocate for the breaking of windows, but I am not one of them.
 

Jackson

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Okay, I'm going way off the mark here, but did anyone see this theory or story and it's insight oin what is happeningn throughout the globe in economic terms or what is happening to the US since 2008?
BTW..excellent account, LiberalLady!
 
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rckirby

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Well, since its the typical libs responding, I guess I have to spoon feed:

That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat

"The Broken Window" would be a good place to start a discussion.........I won't hold my breath for that.
No offense, but I think it is a False Premise, Rooted in Specific Actions, with Specific consequences, Viewed as Universal Rule.

How about stepping back a few steps and let's distinguish and consider. What motivates? What motivates Vision, Discovery, Invention? Experience, Circumstance, Epiphany, even events that may appear accidental or misguided.

Let's distinguish between Moral Absolutism and Moral Relativism. Let's distinguish between Cause and Effect, both intended and unintended, those we are aware of and those we are not. Lets consider the multiple tangents created by these, or at least the possibility.

Intention, what is it rooted in? What is it's Purpose? Do we have a cause? Do we have a means to attain our Goal? Is it Moral? Ethical? Can we attain our Goal without Sinning against Man, Nature, or God? Are we acting rashly? Spontaneously? Out of weakness, Desperation, Strength?

Where does Purpose fit in to the Equation? Is it possible to address a need, apply a remedy to a specific circumstance, looking for an exact remedy, tailored to that specific circumstance, if we try hard enough? Every Circumstance is unique, it will have both similarities and dissimilarities, to those we compare it to. Our effort to act, by what degree do we measure it? 10 fold? 30 fold? 100 fold?

How about this, measure twice, cut once?
No offense Intense, but my story is easier to read and only requires one reading without great thought. I think I win.
Yes you did........His gobblygook is typical of the liberal/leftist elite 'sticking their finger in the air with their cup' crap.

I have never read a post with so much bullshit as this..........might as well have a 100 monkeys typing out a random thesis..............yet these are the morons that are running this country (into the ground).
 

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