Basic Question about Gaza...

[DGS49]

Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me that one of the key factors in understanding what has gone on in Gaza for the past several years is the "walls" that have been erected around Gaza - both on the Egyptian side and the eastern border with Israel.

It is my understanding that all traffic, transportation, and commerce going in and out of Gaza is either prohibited (as with Egypt), or has to go through military check points, where they are subject to search and inspection. The purpose of the continued rocket attacks on Israel is to reduce or eliminate these constraints.

The Israeli's maintain that these checkpoints are necessary to avoid or minimize the flow of offensive weapons into Gaza, and the Palestinians maintain that they are a severe and intolerable impediment to their personal and commercial activities

Is this more or less correct? If not, someone who knows, please correct my understanding.

It seems to me that if this is more or less correct, then the international community should be able to take over these inspections, making traffic into and out of Gaza as free as practicable, given the circumstances.

But that's probably a fatuous idea, eh?

 

[Beelzebub]

I am not sure that an unarmed UN force would be willing to go there.

British: The Israelis will shoot at them.
US: The Israelis and Palestinians will shoot at them.
Russian: The Israelis, Palestinians and Americans will shoot at them.

So the alternative is a force that can shoot back. And that would hardly be helpful.

 

[Lipush]

Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me that one of the key factors in understanding what has gone on in Gaza for the past several years is the "walls" that have been erected around Gaza - both on the Egyptian side and the eastern border with Israel.

It is my understanding that all traffic, transportation, and commerce going in and out of Gaza is either prohibited (as with Egypt), or has to go through military check points, where they are subject to search and inspection. The purpose of the continued rocket attacks on Israel is to reduce or eliminate these constraints.

The Israeli's maintain that these checkpoints are necessary to avoid or minimize the flow of offensive weapons into Gaza, and the Palestinians maintain that they are a severe and intolerable impediment to their personal and commercial activities

Is this more or less correct? If not, someone who knows, please correct my understanding.

It seems to me that if this is more or less correct, then the international community should be able to take over these inspections, making traffic into and out of Gaza as free as practicable, given the circumstances.

But that's probably a fatuous idea, eh?

Problem number one: International community's involvement isn't always a useful solution. We've seen such involvement before.

Problem number two: The Palestinians said, more than once, that they will treat an "international" "occupation" like they treat the Israeli one. Meaning, they don't want foreign interference at all.

 

[Daniyel]

Basically its correct.
Israel placed a blockade after leaving Gaza in 2009 to prevent weapons smuggling which eventually fired into Israel, the Palestinians in Gaza smuggling most weapons by tunnels and creating them with the money of the international aid, a generic mortar/rocket is very easy to assemble and everyone can produce one in home, most of the larger warheads smuggled through these tunnels from Sinai Peninsula, Egyptian efforts prevent some of them but its like placing a cardboard to block the river, Egypt supervise the crossing of human to Gaza as well but the smuggling is a way hard to control.
Except Kerem Shalom/Erez checkpoints where Israel transfer/provide the verified goods/aid(Mostly Kerem Shalom) to Gaza due to the blockade the Palestinians of Gaza are not allowed to enter Israel.
The Egyptian checkpoint on the south-west of Gaza on Philladelphi road called Rafah, the Egyptians also forbid Palestinians to go to Egypt, I don't know if they provide any aid through Rafah checkpoint, I think its closed and its under Egyptian control.
International community providing aid to Gaza, but it won't change anything, nobody forbid anything to Gaza except weapons and weapon materials that would be hard to manufacture in Gaza.
Uhm..International forces can't do better than Israel and Egypt which know the area and controls it, the Palestinians simply can't live under none-Arab/Muslim rule and the Arabs/Muslims don't want them at all.
Abbas recently tried to get the UN forces involved, but Abbas have no authority to do so, and the message was clear, help us fighting Israel..this is not a physical problem, its more political/press war.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.604931

 

[SAYIT]

Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me that one of the key factors in understanding what has gone on in Gaza for the past several years is the "walls" that have been erected around Gaza - both on the Egyptian side and the eastern border with Israel.

It is my understanding that all traffic, transportation, and commerce going in and out of Gaza is either prohibited (as with Egypt), or has to go through military check points, where they are subject to search and inspection. The purpose of the continued rocket attacks on Israel is to reduce or eliminate these constraints.

The Israeli's maintain that these checkpoints are necessary to avoid or minimize the flow of offensive weapons into Gaza, and the Palestinians maintain that they are a severe and intolerable impediment to their personal and commercial activities

Is this more or less correct? If not, someone who knows, please correct my understanding.

It seems to me that if this is more or less correct, then the international community should be able to take over these inspections, making traffic into and out of Gaza as free as practicable, given the circumstances.

But that's probably a fatuous idea, eh?

Certainly the blockade is a serious impediment to their personal and commercial activities. Is there any doubt that given the opportunity the Gazans would import more weapons?
Given Hamas's history Egypt and Israel would be shirking their duty if they could stop that. The Gazans have the time and the materials to build extensive, sophisticated tunnels but neither to build shelters for their civilians.

 

[Phoenall]

Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me that one of the key factors in understanding what has gone on in Gaza for the past several years is the "walls" that have been erected around Gaza - both on the Egyptian side and the eastern border with Israel.

It is my understanding that all traffic, transportation, and commerce going in and out of Gaza is either prohibited (as with Egypt), or has to go through military check points, where they are subject to search and inspection. The purpose of the continued rocket attacks on Israel is to reduce or eliminate these constraints.

The Israeli's maintain that these checkpoints are necessary to avoid or minimize the flow of offensive weapons into Gaza, and the Palestinians maintain that they are a severe and intolerable impediment to their personal and commercial activities

Is this more or less correct? If not, someone who knows, please correct my understanding.

It seems to me that if this is more or less correct, then the international community should be able to take over these inspections, making traffic into and out of Gaza as free as practicable, given the circumstances.

But that's probably a fatuous idea, eh?

The international community is welcome to take over and give guarantees that no weapons will be allowed into gaza. Then they will have to ship the supplies in to gaza at their expense from another destination but Israel.
The checkpoints and separation barrier are not illegal under CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW and at the moment Israel is allowing 1500 tons of humanitarian supplies to enter gaza, but hamas has taken to firing on the trucks and preventing them from unloading. The hamas leadership will claim that they do not have enough fuel to generate electricity while using the fuel to make rockets and bombs. There are no national products produced in gaza since 2005 when the Jews left and the gazan muslims took control of their destinies. As soon as the withdrawal began the gazan muslims increased the rate of terrorist attacks even though there was no blockade or occupation of gaza.

Those are the facts that can be very easily found by anyone with two braincells.

 

[Phoenall]

I am not sure that an unarmed UN force would be willing to go there.

British: The Israelis will shoot at them.
US: The Israelis and Palestinians will shoot at them.
Russian: The Israelis, Palestinians and Americans will shoot at them.

So the alternative is a force that can shoot back. And that would hardly be helpful.

WHat a load of crap, the Israelis would not shoot at anyone as history shows, the last UN peacekeeping force in the region was shot at by Palestinians and Egyptians before being expelled from the Sinai in 1967. This was so the arab muslims could attack Israel and wipe out the Jews.
Any UN peacekeeping force would be multinational and would be commanded to shoot back at any terrorist attacks, and this is what the ISLAMONAZIS are afraid of.

 

[DGS49]

Do Palestinians produce anything that can be sold internationally to generate hard currency, either in Gaza or on the West Bank?

Is there even the potential to create a viable economy/country? Is anyone actually trying to do so?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me that one of the key factors in understanding what has gone on in Gaza for the past several years is the "walls" that have been erected around Gaza - both on the Egyptian side and the eastern border with Israel.

It is my understanding that all traffic, transportation, and commerce going in and out of Gaza is either prohibited (as with Egypt), or has to go through military check points, where they are subject to search and inspection. The purpose of the continued rocket attacks on Israel is to reduce or eliminate these constraints.

The Israeli's maintain that these checkpoints are necessary to avoid or minimize the flow of offensive weapons into Gaza, and the Palestinians maintain that they are a severe and intolerable impediment to their personal and commercial activities

Is this more or less correct? If not, someone who knows, please correct my understanding.

It seems to me that if this is more or less correct, then the international community should be able to take over these inspections, making traffic into and out of Gaza as free as practicable, given the circumstances.

But that's probably a fatuous idea, eh?

If the blockade is to keep weapons out of Gaza, that is an obvious failure. And if it is to keep weapons out, why are tings like chocolate, books, and children's toys banned items.

Exporting has always been a necessary part of Palestine's economy. Israel blocks all exports causing mass unemployment. What do exports like furniture or bell peppers have to do with weapons?

 

[toastman]

Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me that one of the key factors in understanding what has gone on in Gaza for the past several years is the "walls" that have been erected around Gaza - both on the Egyptian side and the eastern border with Israel.

It is my understanding that all traffic, transportation, and commerce going in and out of Gaza is either prohibited (as with Egypt), or has to go through military check points, where they are subject to search and inspection. The purpose of the continued rocket attacks on Israel is to reduce or eliminate these constraints.

The Israeli's maintain that these checkpoints are necessary to avoid or minimize the flow of offensive weapons into Gaza, and the Palestinians maintain that they are a severe and intolerable impediment to their personal and commercial activities

Is this more or less correct? If not, someone who knows, please correct my understanding.

It seems to me that if this is more or less correct, then the international community should be able to take over these inspections, making traffic into and out of Gaza as free as practicable, given the circumstances.

But that's probably a fatuous idea, eh?

If the blockade is to keep weapons out of Gaza, that is an obvious failure. And if it is to keep weapons out, why are tings like chocolate, books, and children's toys banned items.

Exporting has always been a necessary part of Palestine's economy. Israel blocks all exports causing mass unemployment. What do exports like furniture or bell peppers have to do with weapons?

It's not a failure at all. If there was no blockade, Hamas would import advanced weapons like anti aircraft missiles , newer guns.

Of course even with the blockade, Hamas succeeds in getting weapons through tunnels into Egypt. How so you not know this?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Do Palestinians produce anything that can be sold internationally to generate hard currency, either in Gaza or on the West Bank?

Is there even the potential to create a viable economy/country? Is anyone actually trying to do so?

Several main sectors of Gaza’s economy rely on export, including the textile, furniture manufacturing and agriculture industries. During 2005, some 10,000 trucks left Gaza – most of the goods they were carrying were sold in Israel, about a quarter in the West Bank and the rest overseas.

In the 1990s, Israel increasingly began to impose restrictions on the exit of goods from the Gaza Strip and from 2007, as part of its measures against Hamas, Israel almost completely forbade the exit of goods from Gaza to any destination.

Export from Gaza | Gisha

 

[docmauser1]

Export from Gaza | Gisha

Gisha is an Israeli not-for-profit organization, founded in 2005, whose goal is to protect the freedom of movement of Palestinians,

- So, this is their occupation.

 

[Pennywise]

Do Palestinians produce anything that can be sold internationally to generate hard currency, either in Gaza or on the West Bank?

Is there even the potential to create a viable economy/country? Is anyone actually trying to do so?

Several main sectors of Gaza’s economy rely on export, including the textile, furniture manufacturing and agriculture industries. During 2005, some 10,000 trucks left Gaza – most of the goods they were carrying were sold in Israel, about a quarter in the West Bank and the rest overseas.

In the 1990s, Israel increasingly began to impose restrictions on the exit of goods from the Gaza Strip and from 2007, as part of its measures against Hamas, Israel almost completely forbade the exit of goods from Gaza to any destination.

Export from Gaza | Gisha

Assuming this is true, can one of the Zion supporters explain the reasoning? On the surface it seems nothing more than punishing the entire population for the actions of a minority.

 

[aris2chat]

Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me that one of the key factors in understanding what has gone on in Gaza for the past several years is the "walls" that have been erected around Gaza - both on the Egyptian side and the eastern border with Israel.

It is my understanding that all traffic, transportation, and commerce going in and out of Gaza is either prohibited (as with Egypt), or has to go through military check points, where they are subject to search and inspection. The purpose of the continued rocket attacks on Israel is to reduce or eliminate these constraints.

The Israeli's maintain that these checkpoints are necessary to avoid or minimize the flow of offensive weapons into Gaza, and the Palestinians maintain that they are a severe and intolerable impediment to their personal and commercial activities

Is this more or less correct? If not, someone who knows, please correct my understanding.

It seems to me that if this is more or less correct, then the international community should be able to take over these inspections, making traffic into and out of Gaza as free as practicable, given the circumstances.

But that's probably a fatuous idea, eh?

your "walls" are fences with cement walls at the check point for support.

even the US has customs and inspections of items entering by ship, truck or air. There are items that are banned.

Items delivered to gaza become the responsibility to deliver. Hamas has appropriated building material that was to be delivered to the UN. They let food and medicine sit and rot. Israel delivers fuel and hamas still only allow a few hours a day to civilians. Israel supplies electricity to northern gaza and hamas rockets destroy the wiring. Hamas is supposed to buy the fuel for the central power plant. They whine about the PA tax on the fuel used in both the WB and G. Hamas refuses to pay the tax, the PA don't give hamas fuel. Egypt wanted to keep the crossing open but hamas was operating in the the sinai against the Egyptian government so Egypt shuts the crossing.
Even during operation protective edge, Israel was delivering supplies to gaza.

Israel and egypt have the right to close their borders. For security reason, Israel has a legal right to blockade gaza.