Ban or Censor Video Games, Not Guns?

[Foxfyre]

Yeah! Lock up those little children forever!

I love that there's one thread going pointing out the lefts hypocrisy ie blaming guns and ignoring hollywood violence, while this thread is going, where people are attempting to blame video games for violence and wondering what laws the government should make to make it all better.

Really? You think that is what this thread is about?

 

[Trajan]

I remember tipper Gore and the V-chip and tipper stickers and all that and I know that that was confined basically to music and and audio materials but I think she also decided that she wanted to take a stand against graphic violence as well, and was beat up for it.

We are flooded with graphic, salacious, violent materials, I really don't see a way round it.

 

[eflatminor]

I remember tipper Gore and the V-chip and tipper stickers and all that and I know that that was confined basically to music and and audio materials but I think she also decided that she wanted to take a stand against graphic violence as well, and was beat up for it.

We are flooded with graphic, salacious, violent materials, I really don't see a way round it.

I don't either, but I'm not sure I care. We watched the Roadrunner get blown up and a safe dropped on his head. Crime, gun crime, violent crime, murders and mass killings were all worse then. Maybe violent video games lead to fewer violent acts?

I'm not aware of a study that proves this, but a there is a parallel with pornography, where several studies show that more porn = less rape. Rape isn't the same thing as shooting someone of course, but they're both categorized as violent acts. Worth consideration I think.

Proof that Internet porn prevents rape. - Slate Magazine

 

[Foxfyre]

I remember tipper Gore and the V-chip and tipper stickers and all that and I know that that was confined basically to music and and audio materials but I think she also decided that she wanted to take a stand against graphic violence as well, and was beat up for it.

We are flooded with graphic, salacious, violent materials, I really don't see a way round it.

I have NO problem with the V chip concept as long as it is a voluntary option. I am all for giving parents all the tools they need to utilize modern technology without exposing their kids to a whole bunch of stuff kids shouldn't be exposed to.

But based on the concepts set out in the OP and other studies that 007 posted, I honestly don't think we can stick our heads in the sand and just ignore the effect that non stop graphic violence can have on the young and susceptible. Of course more government controls are not the answer. But surely in a world in which multiculturalism and political correctness and smoking etiquette and all manner of other cultural concepts can be foisted on the general public as mandatory conduct, we can find a way to make exposing children to such graphic violence so socially offensive and unacceptable that parents will begin to pay attention?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Ban guns
Ban Hollywood violence
Ban antidepressants


It's all the same blame game.

Ban gun free zones. All these shooting happen in gun free zones.

 

[Foxfyre]

I remember tipper Gore and the V-chip and tipper stickers and all that and I know that that was confined basically to music and and audio materials but I think she also decided that she wanted to take a stand against graphic violence as well, and was beat up for it.

We are flooded with graphic, salacious, violent materials, I really don't see a way round it.

I don't either, but I'm not sure I care. We watched the Roadrunner get blown up and a safe dropped on his head. Crime, gun crime, violent crime, murders and mass killings were all worse then. Maybe violent video games lead to fewer violent acts?

I'm not aware of a study that proves this, but a there is a parallel with pornography, where several studies show that more porn = less rape. Rape isn't the same thing as shooting someone of course, but they're both categorized as violent acts. Worth consideration I think.

Proof that Internet porn prevents rape. - Slate Magazine

But did you read those studies that were posted? The OP was not looking for correlations for violent crime including rape, but rather exploring the fundamental changes in normal cultural behavior that would prompt somebody to plan and execute a mass murder.

 

[JustTheFacts]

All these people blaming this and blaming that are missing the real culprit.

I own guns, I play violent video games ,so do my children ( age appropriate of course) and I've managed to not kill innocent people in real life.

So have millions of others.

Let's call a spade a spade, PARENTS are to blame.

Those video games Elvis wants a sticker on? They are already rated just like movies, and you can't buy them if you're underage. But parents buy them for the wrong audience all the time.

I raise my kids and was raised no video games during the week, one hour of television a night, also if you got in trouble at school, you got in more trouble at home. Also, no sugar during the week. And a set bedtime.

Likewise if my kids don't pay attention in school , I don't medicate them, I kick them in the ass.

Yes, mix enough ADHD drugs,, sugar, and violent video games and you might get a kid who can't tell reality from make believe; but by themselves video games are not to blame. I've been playing video games since the Atari2600 in 1973. I've probably killed ten million video beings, but I've also been an NFL QB, a major league baseball pitcher, a NBA point guard, a secret agent, a mobster, an astronaut, a pirate, a dictator, and on and on.

I've never tried to do any of those things in real life either.

 

[eflatminor]

I remember tipper Gore and the V-chip and tipper stickers and all that and I know that that was confined basically to music and and audio materials but I think she also decided that she wanted to take a stand against graphic violence as well, and was beat up for it.

We are flooded with graphic, salacious, violent materials, I really don't see a way round it.

I don't either, but I'm not sure I care. We watched the Roadrunner get blown up and a safe dropped on his head. Crime, gun crime, violent crime, murders and mass killings were all worse then. Maybe violent video games lead to fewer violent acts?

I'm not aware of a study that proves this, but a there is a parallel with pornography, where several studies show that more porn = less rape. Rape isn't the same thing as shooting someone of course, but they're both categorized as violent acts. Worth consideration I think.

Proof that Internet porn prevents rape. - Slate Magazine

But did you read those studies that were posted? The OP was not looking for correlations for violent crime including rape, but rather exploring the fundamental changes in normal cultural behavior that would prompt somebody to plan and execute a mass murder.

It seems to me that the changes in normal cultural behavior have resulted in a safer, less violent society. I'm cool with that.

 

[Foxfyre]

All these people blaming this and blaming that are missing the real culprit.

I own guns, I play violent video games ,so do my children ( age appropriate of course) and I've managed to not kill innocent people in real life.

So have millions of others.

Let's call a spade a spade, PARENTS are to blame.

Those video games Elvis wants a sticker on? They are already rated just like movies, and you can't buy them if you're underage. But parents buy them for the wrong audience all the time.

I raise my kids and was raised no video games during the week, one hour of television a night, also if you got in trouble at school, you got in more trouble at home. Also, no sugar during the week. And a set bedtime.

Likewise if my kids don't pay attention in school , I don't medicate them, I kick them in the ass.

Yes, mix enough ADHD drugs,, sugar, and violent video games and you might get a kid who can't tell reality from make believe; but by themselves video games are not to blame. I've been playing video games since the Atari2600 in 1973. I've probably killed ten million video beings, but I've also been an NFL QB, a major league baseball pitcher, a NBA point guard, a secret agent, a mobster, an astronaut, a pirate, a dictator, and on and on.

I've never tried to do any of those things in real life either.

Good for you for actually parenting your children. We did pretty much the same with ours, though our rules weren't as tough as yours.

But were you an adult when you started playing those games? I was. So I don't know how the age unappropriate games might affect a susceptible young mind.

 

[Swagger]

I remember tipper Gore and the V-chip and tipper stickers and all that and I know that that was confined basically to music and and audio materials but I think she also decided that she wanted to take a stand against graphic violence as well, and was beat up for it.

We are flooded with graphic, salacious, violent materials, I really don't see a way round it.

I have NO problem with the V chip concept as long as it is a voluntary option. I am all for giving parents all the tools they need to utilize modern technology without exposing their kids to a whole bunch of stuff kids shouldn't be exposed to.

But based on the concepts set out in the OP and other studies that 007 posted, I honestly don't think we can stick our heads in the sand and just ignore the effect that non stop graphic violence can have on the young and susceptible. Of course more government controls are not the answer. But surely in a world in which multiculturalism and political correctness and smoking etiquette and all manner of other cultural concepts can be foisted on the general public as mandatory conduct, we can find a way to make exposing children to such graphic violence so socially offensive and unacceptable that parents will begin to pay attention?

I'd be more interested in finding out about who lobbys the U.S. government on behalf of the video gaming industry. The revenue these games must generate is staggering, so I'm guessing that any pressure group that tries to dissuade kids from playing these games would be thwarted by the kind of clout the income from these games can buy. Not to mention the licensing fees the arms manufacturers make from having their weapons featured in the likes of Modern Warfare.

Another factor that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that these modern shoot 'em-up games draws from special forces activity (and the allure and mystery of these brigades), which means that the government could come across as hypocritical if they attempted to interfere in the gaming industry's business i.e. - 'we're only portraying what everyone knows you guys authorise'.

 

[beagle9]

NOTE: Clean debate zone thread here. . . .

This morning I was listening to a concept put out by a military psychologist who suggests that it is not guns that are the problem in a 'violent America', but rather the changed American culture. Violent concepts are prevalent in our television programs, movies, comic books, music, and most especially in video games that are available in large quantities to very young children.

His theory is that this is desensitizing young people to violence and even exalting and promoting it.

Are video games conditioning kids to accept violence as virtue? As the way to get things accomplished? To win? To reach the pinnacle of success? In many/most of video games out there, it is necessary to be ruthless in order to win the game. Does this change the way people view their world in an unhealthy way?

If you do see this as a problem, how do you get around censorship as being somehow better than gun control? Do you want the government to have power in that area?

Or is there a way for the public/radio/Hollywood to self censor itself as it once did? And should we push for that?

Or maybe you don't see it as a problem at all?

If we creat the proper stage for a peaceful mindset to flourish again in our youth, in which to be exposed to in America, and yes of course it can be done again easily, then we will have won the big battle once again. The guns are not the problem, and this is to all the idiots whom think that they are, but rather they are acting as the first piece of solid evidence found in the problems in which we now have in America and within our society, especially when being used in the ways that they are in these crimes now-a-day's, and especially by these youth's in which are now on the rise it seems more and more in America these days, so why is this ? Hollywood is the main culprit in the situation thus far (imho), and after that it is the public school system that exposes many to the woes of a youth's corrupted mindset now, and for whom are many times emulating hollywood in a bad way these days. They are carring this taught rebellion straight into the general population of a public school system now. Then we have the radical mindset of the adults that were ealier affected by hollywood's radical changes in unhealthy percentages of, who want to steer their opinions into the youth these days also, and they are doing this freely through the public school system as well. It's almost a no win situation for these youths these days and their cultures.

Now I am for good sensorship, just like I am for good regulation as well on some of this stuff, because we shouldn't be allowing as a nation, to just let anything go like we have been, yet we should be careful also not to go to far where as we become as a dictatorship, and an oppressive government that just goes way to far when it comes to what should or shouldnot be going on within our nation. It (the government along with Hollywood) has already gone to far now, and in the wrong direction they have since gone, so should we be trying to bring it all back to a normal range in percentages of ((YES)), and this would solve alot of things if we could do just that, and that only.

 

[JustTheFacts]

All these people blaming this and blaming that are missing the real culprit.

I own guns, I play violent video games ,so do my children ( age appropriate of course) and I've managed to not kill innocent people in real life.

So have millions of others.

Let's call a spade a spade, PARENTS are to blame.

Those video games Elvis wants a sticker on? They are already rated just like movies, and you can't buy them if you're underage. But parents buy them for the wrong audience all the time.

I raise my kids and was raised no video games during the week, one hour of television a night, also if you got in trouble at school, you got in more trouble at home. Also, no sugar during the week. And a set bedtime.

Likewise if my kids don't pay attention in school , I don't medicate them, I kick them in the ass.

Yes, mix enough ADHD drugs,, sugar, and violent video games and you might get a kid who can't tell reality from make believe; but by themselves video games are not to blame. I've been playing video games since the Atari2600 in 1973. I've probably killed ten million video beings, but I've also been an NFL QB, a major league baseball pitcher, a NBA point guard, a secret agent, a mobster, an astronaut, a pirate, a dictator, and on and on.

I've never tried to do any of those things in real life either.

Good for you for actually parenting your children. We did pretty much the same with ours, though our rules weren't as tough as yours.

But were you an adult when you started playing those games? I was. So I don't know how the age unappropriate games might affect a susceptible young mind.

no i was not an adult, I'm 42 now , I've been playing them since I was 7 years old. Although the new games are obviously a LOT more graphic than the games of my youth.

 

[AmyNation]

I don't either, but I'm not sure I care. We watched the Roadrunner get blown up and a safe dropped on his head. Crime, gun crime, violent crime, murders and mass killings were all worse then. Maybe violent video games lead to fewer violent acts?

I'm not aware of a study that proves this, but a there is a parallel with pornography, where several studies show that more porn = less rape. Rape isn't the same thing as shooting someone of course, but they're both categorized as violent acts. Worth consideration I think.

Proof that Internet porn prevents rape. - Slate Magazine

But did you read those studies that were posted? The OP was not looking for correlations for violent crime including rape, but rather exploring the fundamental changes in normal cultural behavior that would prompt somebody to plan and execute a mass murder.

It seems to me that the changes in normal cultural behavior have resulted in a safer, less violent society. I'm cool with that.

Shocking!

 

[JustTheFacts]

I remember tipper Gore and the V-chip and tipper stickers and all that and I know that that was confined basically to music and and audio materials but I think she also decided that she wanted to take a stand against graphic violence as well, and was beat up for it.

We are flooded with graphic, salacious, violent materials, I really don't see a way round it.

I have NO problem with the V chip concept as long as it is a voluntary option. I am all for giving parents all the tools they need to utilize modern technology without exposing their kids to a whole bunch of stuff kids shouldn't be exposed to.

But based on the concepts set out in the OP and other studies that 007 posted, I honestly don't think we can stick our heads in the sand and just ignore the effect that non stop graphic violence can have on the young and susceptible. Of course more government controls are not the answer. But surely in a world in which multiculturalism and political correctness and smoking etiquette and all manner of other cultural concepts can be foisted on the general public as mandatory conduct, we can find a way to make exposing children to such graphic violence so socially offensive and unacceptable that parents will begin to pay attention?

I'd be more interested in finding out about who lobbys the U.S. government on behalf of the video gaming industry. The revenue these games must generate is staggering, so I'm guessing that any pressure group that tries to dissuade kids from playing these games would be thwarted by the kind of clout the income from these games can buy. Not to mention the licensing fees the arms manufacturers make from having their weapons featured in the likes of Modern Warfare.

Another factor that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that these modern shoot 'em-up games draws from special forces activity (and the allure and mystery of these brigades), which means that the government could come across as hypocritical if they attempted to interfere in the gaming industry's business i.e. - 'we're only portraying what everyone knows you guys authorise'.

Yes, the video game industry is a billion dollar a year industry.

They also submit to a voluntary regulatory agency


Rating categories, content descriptors, and interactive elements from ESRB

EVERY game is rated. And stores will not sell rated M games or higher to those under 17.

AND by the way, the best selling game in the US every year over the last 10 years is actually Madden football. So most games are not violent.

Again, it is PARENTS fault if they are not keeping their kids from playing these games. Not game companies faults for making them.

Do you blame beer manufactures for underage drinking?

 

[Foxfyre]

A lot of thoughtful posts here, people, and I appreciate the careful consideration and effort that went into them. With enough people recognizing that there is a problem and looking for the right way to address it, I think sooner or later our collective wisdom just might come up with the best solution.

As for those who want to say that everything is just hunky dory and fine--move along--there's nothing to see here--I don't know what to say to that. I simply refuse to believe that the way we are is the best we can do.

 

[JustTheFacts]

A lot of thoughtful posts here, people, and I appreciate the careful consideration and effort that went into them. With enough people recognizing that there is a problem and looking for the right way to address it, I think sooner or later our collective wisdom just might come up with the best solution.

As for those who want to say that everything is just hunky dory and fine--move along--there's nothing to see here--I don't know what to say to that. I simply refuse to believe that the way we are is the best we can do.

Unfortunately the only way to fix it is better parenting. Unless you want to force parents to be better parents I don't know what we can do.

Taking products off the market isn't a solution.

 

[Foxfyre]

A lot of thoughtful posts here, people, and I appreciate the careful consideration and effort that went into them. With enough people recognizing that there is a problem and looking for the right way to address it, I think sooner or later our collective wisdom just might come up with the best solution.

As for those who want to say that everything is just hunky dory and fine--move along--there's nothing to see here--I don't know what to say to that. I simply refuse to believe that the way we are is the best we can do.

Unfortunately the only way to fix it is better parenting. Unless you want to force parents to be better parents I don't know what we can do.

Taking products off the market isn't a solution.

Parenting, or the quality of it, is also a cultural thing. And currently the culture isn't promoting good parenting. Discourages it sometimes actually. So that is another component to consider.

 

[Ravi]

Becoming desensitized to violence could make one not be affected by the daily dose of violence on the news, in life, etc. It doesn't mean that someone would go out and mass murder people.

If you accept the premise put forward in the OP then you must also accept that it was Sarah Palin's fault that Gabby Giffords, et al, were shot. After all, putting targets on politicians and telling people to lock and load or whatever idiocy she spouted is just as swaying to the mind as killing cartoon characters.

 

[Ravi]

Personally speaking, I don't that computer games are as much to blame as is commonly made out. I think these children and young adults crave something that's being systematically stripped away from Western society: traditionalism.

It’s interesting to me, and keep in mind I am largely unfamiliar with the gaming world being from the Pong and Space Invaders generation, that the games I seem to hear about most are either first-person shoot 'em up games, representing a chance to vent against dehumanized humans, or fantasy worlds decorated generously with traditionalist themes – hierarchy, rites of passage, heroism, monarchy, holy or elite orders, priest and warrior castes, and the existence of extra-material worlds and beings. Some of the biggest franchises in the video gaming industry, HALO and The Elder Scrolls being two that I am aware of, are overflowing with the traditional.

Video games companies aren't transforming these avid young gamers into throne and alter types, they're simply exposing them for the throne and alter types they already are (without any real world thrones or altars to kneel before).

Am I making sense here?

I like the Elder Scrolls games but Fallout is my favorite.

Perhaps I subconsciously desire a primitive post apocalyptic world with no law and order.

I subconsciously desire to drop anvils on anyone's head that thwarts me. My mother warned me about watching Road Runner but of course I didn't listen.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Let's say I agree with the premise that video games desensitize the young and promote violence.

Now what?


Now that we've all agreed "what's bad" you move to ban them for the good of the public?

Let's take it a step further and say, where were the parents at?