Baker must make gay cakes

[Noomi]

He's no longer discriminating. He no longer offers wedding cake. Although if a friend asked him he'd do it.

As long as his advertisement is by private appointment, the baker is fine.

But if he advertises publicly he does wedding cakes, then he must serve everybody.

If you visit his web site he's still offering wedding cakes.



>>>>

He cannot offer to one without offering to all.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Apparently you didn't get the whole story, what a surprise.

What part did I miss?

The part where the Colorado Civil Rights Commission has no authority to impose sanctions of ay type other than clearing a plaintiff to sue.

http://cdn.colorado.gov/cs/Satellit...goBlobs&blobwhere=1251971365934&ssbinary=true

Your link seems to disagree with you.

 

[Katzndogz]

>

The baker is not being forced to bake wedding cakes for anyone. If he chooses to provide such goods as part of his business, only then is he required to offer them equally. So if he dosen't want to do wedding cakes for same sex couples, not a problem - just don't do wedding cakes.



>>>>

Oh the baker can do wedding cakes. He just can't offer wedding cake services to the public. Read the statute again. It's about advertising not actual service.

You should read the law again "advertising" isn't listed at all. If the business provides the goods and services to the public then they are required to provide them equally. Now say the baker takes "wedding cakes" off his web site, but he still takes referrals from wedding planners and walk-in customers, that then is a good offered to the public.

He might think he's being cute, but if he refused to sell the same cake to a black couple, a Muslim couple, a Mexican couple, or a same-sex couple then a complaint can be filed. The cognizant state organization that oversees Public Accommodation laws could then investigate - if the bakers books show such services are being provided, then he's in violation of the law. Now if he want's to actually stop selling cakes as a function of the business - no problem. Even if he bakes a wedding cake for his niece privately and not as a function of the business - no problem.

Of course he could keep no records of such transactions in his business books, but if found out about it by the IRS he's have other issues - namely tax evasion.


>>>>

You aren't understanding the statute. Read it again. Publish, circulate those are forms of advertising. Read that whole part. What you are thinking of is a provision that would prohibit making wedding cakes for anyone under any circumstances unless the unadvertised services are extended to all. That's an injunction. That's not the current law.

Public accommodation laws only cover services available to the public at large. That service must be communicated to the general public and understood to be available to the public

Unadvertised services are understood not to be available to the general public even if those services are a substantial part of that business income. Tax evasion isn't necessary.

When a complaint is filed the plaintiff must prove as an element of the claim that the service sought was communicated as being available to the public. Even if business records and receipts prove that a big part of the business income is derived from an unadvertised service it doesn't change the service into one of public accommodation. If the claimant cannot prove that the service was a public accommodation they haven't met the first element and will never get to business or tax records.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Are you still trying to claim that at the time of the wedding, Masterpiece Cakeshop didn't make wedding cakes?

No, I am arguing that the sanctions imposed by the Colorado Civil Rights Commission, which is what this thread is all about, inappropriate and illegal. You are the one that is stuck in the past, not me.

Seems to me that's exactly what you've been arguing:

It isn't, he will not be forced to solicit business in the gay community, nor do anything but abide by the law. His religious beliefs will not be infringed.

He has to bake a gay wedding cake even though he doesn't bake cakes, how is that a normal application of the law.

How is that arguing the past, that is exactly what the Commission is telling him.

 

[Katzndogz]

I'm gonna try again.

If the baker takes referrals from wedding planners and walk in customers the baker is not offering his services to anyone. He is at that point responding to an offer made to him since the offer by the wedding planner or walk in customer was not in response to any act or ad by the baker.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

No, I am arguing that the sanctions imposed by the Colorado Civil Rights Commission, which is what this thread is all about, inappropriate and illegal. You are the one that is stuck in the past, not me.

Seems to me that's exactly what you've been arguing:

He has to bake a gay wedding cake even though he doesn't bake cakes, how is that a normal application of the law.

How is that arguing the past, that is exactly what the Commission is telling him.

No, that's not at all what the Commission is telling him. The Commission told him that he's not allowed to discriminate due to sexual orientation. There's nothing in their ruling about forcing him to bake any cakes.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I'm gonna try again.

If the baker takes referrals from wedding planners and walk in customers the baker is not offering his services to anyone. He is at that point responding to an offer made to him since the offer by the wedding planner or walk in customer was not in response to any act or ad by the baker.

Your armchair litigating notwithstanding, his website still advertises wedding cakes.

 

[Zander]

Personally, I'd take the gay cake orders. Here is the policy I would post for ALL wedding cake customers:

WEDDING CAKE POLICY​

​

NO CUSTOM CAKE ORDERS
PICK A CAKE FLAVOR, AND STYLE FROM OUR "CAKE SAMPLE BOOK"
WE REQUIRE 100% NON REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT PAID IN ADVANCE OR "NO CAKE FOR YOU"
CASH ONLY. NO CHECKS. NO CREDIT CARDS. GOLD BULLION IS ALSO ACCEPTABLE
ANY CHANGES OR REQUESTS FOR CHANGES WILL RESULT IN COMPLETE FORFEITURE OF THE DEPOSIT. NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS RULE
BAKERY RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE CAKE INGREDIENTS AND TO EXPERIMENT WITH THE RECIPE AS THEY SEE FIT
DEPOSIT IS NON REFUNDABLE FOR ANY REASON EVEN IF YOU HATE THE WAY THE CAKE TASTES
WE PROMISE ONE THING- YUR CAKE WILL LOOK LIKE THE CAKE IN THE PICTURE AND IT WILL BE READY WHEN WE SAY
ENJOY YOUR CAKE!!!
​

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Personally, I'd take the gay cake orders. Here is the policy I would post for ALL wedding cake customers:

WEDDING CAKE POLICY​

​

NO CUSTOM CAKE ORDERS
PICK A CAKE FLAVOR, AND STYLE FROM OUR "CAKE SAMPLE BOOK"
WE REQUIRE 100% NON REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT PAID IN ADVANCE OR "NO CAKE FOR YOU"
CASH ONLY. NO CHECKS. NO CREDIT CARDS. GOLD BULLION IS ALSO ACCEPTABLE
ANY CHANGES OR REQUESTS FOR CHANGES WILL RESULT IN COMPLETE FORFEITURE OF THE DEPOSIT. NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS RULE
BAKERY RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE CAKE INGREDIENTS AND TO EXPERIMENT WITH THE RECIPE AS THEY SEE FIT
DEPOSIT IS NON REFUNDABLE FOR ANY REASON EVEN IF YOU HATE THE WAY THE CAKE TASTES
WE PROMISE ONE THING- YUR CAKE WILL LOOK LIKE THE CAKE IN THE PICTURE AND IT WILL BE READY WHEN WE SAY
ENJOY YOUR CAKE!!!
​

I don't imagine you'd get much business with a policy like that.

 

[Katzndogz]

I'm gonna try again.

If the baker takes referrals from wedding planners and walk in customers the baker is not offering his services to anyone. He is at that point responding to an offer made to him since the offer by the wedding planner or walk in customer was not in response to any act or ad by the baker.

Your armchair litigating notwithstanding, his website still advertises wedding cakes.

It's not like they can't update the site.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I'm gonna try again.

If the baker takes referrals from wedding planners and walk in customers the baker is not offering his services to anyone. He is at that point responding to an offer made to him since the offer by the wedding planner or walk in customer was not in response to any act or ad by the baker.

Your armchair litigating notwithstanding, his website still advertises wedding cakes.

It's not like they can't update the site.

Sure, they can.

They haven't, though.

 

[TheOldSchool]

The irony of this whole situation is...

Gay people can make prettier cakes

 

[CrazedScotsman]

If I give a friend $500.00 so his girlfriend can get an abortion, did I sin knowing what the money was for?

If I let my neighbor borrow my hammer because he wanted to murder his wife with it, did I commit a crime?

If I let my son drive my car knowing he is drunk and he kills someone by driving on the sidewalk, am I not guilty as well?

If I bake a cake for a gay wedding and homosexuality is considered a sin in my religion, am I not committing a sin?

You may think I'm wrong and that's cool, you have your opinion. I can sell donuts to homosexuals, the klan, to whoever and that is not a sin. I can make a cake for a homosexuals birthday party, that's cool too. But when you force me to participate in something that goes against my religion, that's not cool. Forcing this guy to bake a wedding cake is forcing him to participate in their sin, that is not cool.

What's next, forcing church's to perform gay weddings? Because that's what this "Panel" is doing, you wait and see.

 

[Katzndogz]

The irony is that eventually gay couples will be forced to buy their wedding cakes and services only from those willing to accept their business. Exactly the same way as if they had never complained at all.

 

[Zander]

Personally, I'd take the gay cake orders. Here is the policy I would post for ALL wedding cake customers:

WEDDING CAKE POLICY​

​

NO CUSTOM CAKE ORDERS
PICK A CAKE FLAVOR, AND STYLE FROM OUR "CAKE SAMPLE BOOK"
WE REQUIRE 100% NON REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT PAID IN ADVANCE OR "NO CAKE FOR YOU"
CASH ONLY. NO CHECKS. NO CREDIT CARDS. GOLD BULLION IS ALSO ACCEPTABLE
ANY CHANGES OR REQUESTS FOR CHANGES WILL RESULT IN COMPLETE FORFEITURE OF THE DEPOSIT. NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS RULE
BAKERY RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE CAKE INGREDIENTS AND TO EXPERIMENT WITH THE RECIPE AS THEY SEE FIT
DEPOSIT IS NON REFUNDABLE FOR ANY REASON EVEN IF YOU HATE THE WAY THE CAKE TASTES
WE PROMISE ONE THING- YUR CAKE WILL LOOK LIKE THE CAKE IN THE PICTURE AND IT WILL BE READY WHEN WE SAY
ENJOY YOUR CAKE!!!
​

I don't imagine you'd get much business with a policy like that.

I disagree. People would be lined up! Exclusivity sells, even if it's manufactured scarcity.......think DeBeers....

 

[TheOldSchool]

The irony is that eventually gay couples will be forced to buy their wedding cakes and services only from those willing to accept their business. Exactly the same way as if they had never complained at all.

So they'll have to wait a decade or two until the last of the assholes die out?

 

[Katzndogz]

The irony is that eventually gay couples will be forced to buy their wedding cakes and services only from those willing to accept their business. Exactly the same way as if they had never complained at all.

So they'll have to wait a decade or two until the last of the assholes die out?

By then their whole degenerate culture will be gone.

 

[TheOldSchool]

The irony is that eventually gay couples will be forced to buy their wedding cakes and services only from those willing to accept their business. Exactly the same way as if they had never complained at all.

So they'll have to wait a decade or two until the last of the assholes die out?

By then their whole degenerate culture will be gone.

I'm surprised you'd call your own beliefs "degenerate." But I'm glad you've accepted it. It's just a matter of time before your "degenerate" ideas will be forever gone from the world.

 

[MikeK]

If I give a friend $500.00 so his girlfriend can get an abortion, did I sin knowing what the money was for?

If I let my neighbor borrow my hammer because he wanted to murder his wife with it, did I commit a crime?

If I let my son drive my car knowing he is drunk and he kills someone by driving on the sidewalk, am I not guilty as well?

If I bake a cake for a gay wedding and homosexuality is considered a sin in my religion, am I not committing a sin?

You may think I'm wrong and that's cool, you have your opinion. I can sell donuts to homosexuals, the klan, to whoever and that is not a sin. I can make a cake for a homosexuals birthday party, that's cool too. But when you force me to participate in something that goes against my religion, that's not cool. Forcing this guy to bake a wedding cake is forcing him to participate in their sin, that is not cool.

If you own a grocery store is it a sin to sell a loaf of bread to a homosexual?

What's next, forcing church's to perform gay weddings? Because that's what this "Panel" is doing, you wait and see.

A church should not be required to perform a gay wedding. But a civil authority should.

 

[Howey]

Wow. That's great news!

THE MARCH TO EQUALITY CONTINUES!

​