Bachmann signs The Family Lead pledge

[Modbert]

I collected a bunch of oldies music at youtube & noticed that in the 50's the big deal was just getting a kiss. Today it is get it down on the ground and get it on. That is the reality.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oSR-lT-PEw]YouTube - ‪The Del-Vikings - Come Go With Me‬‏[/ame]

 

[Modbert]

authoritarian prison parenting vs. authoritarian prison society....

hmmm.

 

[shintao]

To those that say I should 'keep a better watch' over my kid - you know you're advocating Authoritarian Prison Parenting, right?

I thought they called it tough love & taking personal responsibility for your own actions in a manner that doesn't infringe on my freedoms.

If there were a way that ensured all people who view porn online where 18 or older (or at least reasonably), would you object?

There is a way. You raise your child as the adult in the family, and learn to say NO. Yes, I would object to 1st amendment & 4th Amendment infringements for the sake of moralist wishes that have an obvious answer, be a parent.

You have to show an ID to buy alcohol or go the dildo store, so *shrug*. Why would you care? With liberty comes responsibility.

Child bearing is a responsibility as well, and taking away my freedoms so you can dodge your responsibility to be a parent,...isn't going to fly. LOL!

As far as kids go:

one
two

For obvious reasons, it's kind of hard to figure out what the net effect is on teens, but I'm sure we'll find out. It's definitely of interest. You can't ignore pregnancy, abortion, STDS (oh god, I sound like a Republican, but I swear, I'm just a teacher/parent...) and the like.

Still, it's illegal to sell porn or distribute it to kids but porn sites clearly don't give a shit. Why can't we make them follow the law? Why do some people here object to that?

I guess you never been to a porn website? But they do give a shit. They have a sign on the door. They guide parents to sites where the can buy programs to police their children. NOW how about you get responsible and use them on your kids pc??

this thread is making me laugh. "DON'T TAKE AWAY MY GOD GIVEN NATURAL RIGHT TO EASILY ACCESS BONDAGE SO I CAN WANK OFF ON THE INTERNET!"

That could sum it up if I were shallow minded and bondage was one of my sexual preferences. I have held my brothers in Nam in my arms and watched them die for your freedoms and my own. I don't take freedom lightly where ever I see it slipping away, being chipped at by irresponsible people. My brothers paid a price for your freedom, and you have to learn that freedom has a price we all have to pay, daily. You have to feel the pain and suffer for freedom, and defend other people's rights to freedom, even when you disagree with what they do.

ie. I oppose abortion, but I will defend a woman's rights to chose.

The problem here is parents who are playing the child & letting their children be the adult. BUT whatever the problem is, it is not my problem or your right to take away my freedoms when obvious solutions are available.

 

[shintao]

authoritarian prison parenting vs. authoritarian prison society....

hmmm.

I am thinking about throwing a 50's party this summer. In my area there are a lot of car shows, and even a Sonic hamburger place that serves the old flavored cokes & delivers them on a tray on your door, with a gal on roller skates. How cool.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

63%? I thought you claimed it was 83%, what happened?

Where did I claim 83%? I never claimed 83%.

That's your problem, not mine.

She supports the Death Penalty and is a huge proponent of The War on Drugs. She also supports the U.S embargo on Cuba. She supported the War on Iraq invasion.

She voted for the Bush Tax Cut extensions in 2011. She backed McCain in 2008.

Olympia Snowe on the Issues

She opposed the Health Care Reform bill. She's voted yes several times on proposals to constitutionally ban burning the flag. She voted in 1996 to ban Gay Marriage. In October of 2001 she voted to loosen restrictions on cell phone wiretapping.

She voted no for background checks at gun shows.

She voted with Republican Party 62.9% of the time including 326 votes. (Sep 2007) but that somehow makes her far left? You're out of your tree.

I've been quoting Ontheissues this entire time.

The only one trying to derail the discussion is yourself. Someone who votes with the Republicans 62.9% of the time is not far left, simple as that.

The issue here is you think you have a monopoly on how to define terms.

Why do you keep trying to change what I say throughout our discussions? This is what? The 3rd or 4th in the past day I've had to correct you now?

If you have an alternate definition for any term I use that you want to offer feel free to lay it out. The problem is not that I am trying to claim a monopoly, it is that you refuse to define anything at all, that way you can claim later that you meant something else.

I have seen a lot of numbers tossed around, and this has been a long discussion. I think I told you before that my memory is not perfect. I am not trying to redefine anything, I was simply wrong.

You should try saying it occasionally.

 

[Modbert]

I have seen a lot of numbers tossed around, and this has been a long discussion. I think I told you before that my memory is not perfect. I am not trying to redefine anything, I was simply wrong.

You should try saying it occasionally.

Fair enough. And I have, the OP for starters.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If your standard is actual harm, however you define it, how can you you be sure that no harm occurs? If your standard is simply consent then you are fine not to actually care.

Pornography is fine. Coercion is harmful, whether for pornography, labor, sex, money, etc.

I love the part where homosexuality is a subset of promiscuity.

And all women should marry for fear of economic hardship. Sounds an awful lot like coercing a sexual relationship to me.

Where did I say anything like that?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

it doesn't matter... porn shouldn't be included. and really, wouldn't it make more sense for the rightwingnuts to worry about their own morality and stop trying to govern everyone elses'?

what i'd kind of like to know is why no one is talking about the fact that the "pledge" says black families were better off under slavery.

so the wingnuts are both racists and loons. it's just so funny to watch them talk about morality.

It matters because she is not a wingnut.

Why are you worried about other people's morality? Are you going to try and argue that Bachman is actually a philanderer? Or that she is a hypocrite for not taking in children even though she opposes abortion? If so, you might find yourself on the loosing end of that moral argument.

FYI, the pledge didn't actually say what you claim, and the language that implied that has been removed. A bit late, but it shows that they actually pay attention to criticism.

A day late and a dollar short.

What this pledge shows the public, clear as day, is that Bachmann is off her rockers. She's a moonbat.

And it took such blatant and flagrant depictions for you to state that you won't consider her.

WoW!

Telling....very telling.

Does it make you feel better to get morally outraged about something that has changed, and that you misrepresented in the first place?

By the way, moonbats are the weirdos on the left side of the political spectrum. Calling Bachman a moonbat is as ignorant as calling Obama a communist.

By the way, where did I say anything about me considering or not considering Bachman as a candidate? Are you seeing things again?

 

[CitizenPained]

I have held my brothers in Nam in my arms and watched them die for your freedoms and my own.

Sorry, I just lost interest in whatever point you were trying to make. Vietnam was not about a thirteen year old's right to view explicit material or your 'right' to protect the porn industry from illegally distributing material to minors.



If easy access to porn is THAT big of a deal to you, you should talk to someone about it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's impossible to restrict porn online unless you're sitting over your kid's shoulder. Plus they can just go to their friend's house.

As far as a delineation on what porn 'is' - I think it can be figured out.

We already prohibit the viewing or distribution of child porn. That is available online and happens to be a booming industry overseas. Child sex slaves. Disgusting. I can't imagine you object to that ban.

Purposely exposing your kids to pornography is sexual assault in many places, and for good reason.

Personally, I don't disagree with you.

Pragmatically, I do. The logistics to ban it are non existent if we want to value free speech.

To me, free speech is THE most important right to guard to remain a free society. And, sometimes - often - we have to protect the most offensive speech to keep our speech free.

It would be nice if we could tighten security on the internet, though. "You must be 18 to enter" is maybe not good enough.

eta: I think this will come back to the Courts eventually.

Sooner or later it will, but until someone events a foolproof method of determining age of the internet, which I do not see happening anytime soon, the only thing that is going to work is those check boxes.

 

[Modbert]

sorry, i just lost interest in whatever point you were trying to make. Vietnam was not about a thirteen year old's right to view explicit material or your 'right' to protect the porn industry from illegally distributing material to minors.



If easy access to porn is that big of a deal to you, you should talk to someone about it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If your standard is actual harm, however you define it, how can you you be sure that no harm occurs? If your standard is simply consent then you are fine not to actually care.

Pornography is fine. Coercion is harmful, whether for pornography, labor, sex, money, etc.

I love the part where homosexuality is a subset of promiscuity.

And all women should marry for fear of economic hardship. Sounds an awful lot like coercing a sexual relationship to me.

I had to look that word up mom, because I don't see anyone being forced to act indecent before the screen. I think that is a scare tactic used by moralists and other misguided control freaks.

co·erce verb \kō-ˈərs\
co·ercedco·erc·ing

Definition of COERCE
transitive verb
1: to restrain or dominate by force <religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious — W. R. Inge>
2: to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>

I used it because it was what Linda Lovelace actually claimed after she got out of porn.

Linda Lovelace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is also a pretty standard claim of many feminists. Doesn't make it true, but I only mentioned it because someone tried to claim pornography doesn't harm anyone.

 

[shintao]

I have held my brothers in Nam in my arms and watched them die for your freedoms and my own.

Sorry, I just lost interest in whatever point you were trying to make. Vietnam was not about a thirteen year old's right to view explicit material or your 'right' to protect the porn industry from illegally distributing material to minors.



If easy access to porn is THAT big of a deal to you, you should talk to someone about it.

Hmm, I guess a chat on freedoms, parenting, antiporn programs, etc. is lost with you. Must be that lost interest you are having.

Easy access to porn is not a problem for me,..........it's a problem for you, so maybe you should talk to someone about it. Oh, you already are. LOL!

Quite humorous that you would say "porn industry from illegally distributing material to minors," As if they were not in compliance with the law.

How about we write a law that if your child is caught in a porn site, we take the child away and require you attend parenting classes if you want the child back? And the second offense will cost you a $1,000.00 fine.

 

[shintao]

Pornography is fine. Coercion is harmful, whether for pornography, labor, sex, money, etc.

I love the part where homosexuality is a subset of promiscuity.

And all women should marry for fear of economic hardship. Sounds an awful lot like coercing a sexual relationship to me.

I had to look that word up mom, because I don't see anyone being forced to act indecent before the screen. I think that is a scare tactic used by moralists and other misguided control freaks.

co·erce verb \k&#333;-&#712;&#601;rs\
co·ercedco·erc·ing

Definition of COERCE
transitive verb
1: to restrain or dominate by force <religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious — W. R. Inge>
2: to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>

I used it because it was what Linda Lovelace actually claimed after she got out of porn.

Linda Lovelace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is also a pretty standard claim of many feminists. Doesn't make it true, but I only mentioned it because someone tried to claim pornography doesn't harm anyone.

There must be someone that was harmed by porn, or reading the Bible, or studying the growth of a corn seed, etc.

The Reagan Porn Commission watched porn of every kind and came away unaffected, even by the child porn.

 

[jillian]

It matters because she is not a wingnut.

Why are you worried about other people's morality? Are you going to try and argue that Bachman is actually a philanderer? Or that she is a hypocrite for not taking in children even though she opposes abortion? If so, you might find yourself on the loosing end of that moral argument.

FYI, the pledge didn't actually say what you claim, and the language that implied that has been removed. A bit late, but it shows that they actually pay attention to criticism.

A day late and a dollar short.

What this pledge shows the public, clear as day, is that Bachmann is off her rockers. She's a moonbat.

And it took such blatant and flagrant depictions for you to state that you won't consider her.

WoW!

Telling....very telling.

Does it make you feel better to get morally outraged about something that has changed, and that you misrepresented in the first place?

By the way, moonbats are the weirdos on the left side of the political spectrum. Calling Bachman a moonbat is as ignorant as calling Obama a communist.

By the way, where did I say anything about me considering or not considering Bachman as a candidate? Are you seeing things again?

yeah, i know the rightwingnuts like using the term moonbat for anyone who disagrees with their lunacy...no matter how close to the center the person on the left is.

but no biggie... you can have that point.

michelle bachmann is clearly a rightwingnut loon.

so there ya go. i think that corrects the terminology for you, if that makes you feel better.

 

[Sallow]

A day late and a dollar short.

What this pledge shows the public, clear as day, is that Bachmann is off her rockers. She's a moonbat.

And it took such blatant and flagrant depictions for you to state that you won't consider her.

WoW!

Telling....very telling.

Does it make you feel better to get morally outraged about something that has changed, and that you misrepresented in the first place?

By the way, moonbats are the weirdos on the left side of the political spectrum. Calling Bachman a moonbat is as ignorant as calling Obama a communist.

By the way, where did I say anything about me considering or not considering Bachman as a candidate? Are you seeing things again?

yeah, i know the rightwingnuts like using the term moonbat for anyone who disagrees with their lunacy...no matter how close to the center the person on the left is.

but no biggie... you can have that point.

michelle bachmann is clearly a rightwingnut loon.

so there ya go. i think that corrects the terminology for you, if that makes you feel better.

More then that..she is a bigotted and racist rightwingnut loon. Signing this document proved it.

Happiness in Slavery

 

[Steelplate]

I don't think there's anything in the Democratic Platform about being 'pro-porn'.

What adults what to do in their private time is generally their own business, but you could probably argue that bad effects porn has on society - at the very least, children. In this day and age, kids (who are known for being stupid) can access anything on the web.

So it isn't like when I was growing up (well, I'm only 26, so maybe my parents), where boys had smutty magazines under their beds but girls weren't expected to act like porn stars.

Opposing regulation of the porn industry is effectively saying that 'anything goes'. Oh, and kids and porn has been a topic lately, what with Cali and its violent video games ban.

It's illegal to distribute porn to minors...ah, what a joke. And obscenity laws? What is obscene anymore these days? And if people are busted frequently for possession of child porn, that signals it's readily available.

the
porn
industry
today
harms
children

...that really shouldn't be a debate.

Ok... I think I see where her problem with porn lies, and I bolded it. The problem is....porn isn't necessarily the crux of the problem. Let me ask you Citizen Pained... Have you watched regular TV lately? have you viewed programs like Jersey Shore and all those "pseudo-reality" Television programs? They have 100X the impact on young people than porn does.

I am not necessarily pro-porn... don't get me wrong. But there's a heck of a lot more going on besides porn that affects kids sexual mores, and most of it is accessible with a remote control.

 

[peach174]

Why how dare they sign something like this, especially when 63% of Americans agree with it.

 

[Seawytch]

Why how dare they sign something like this, especially when 63% of Americans agree with it.

Oh, please do provide THOSE polls...

 

[Seawytch]

Ok... I think I see where her problem with porn lies, and I bolded it. The problem is....porn isn't necessarily the crux of the problem. Let me ask you Citizen Pained... Have you watched regular TV lately? have you viewed programs like Jersey Shore and all those "pseudo-reality" Television programs? They have 100X the impact on young people than porn does.

I am not necessarily pro-porn... don't get me wrong. But there's a heck of a lot more going on besides porn that affects kids sexual mores, and most of it is accessible with a remote control.

Well...I'm pro porn (go porn!!!) and I would have to agree with you that there are far more harmful things out there than kids seeing two people *******.

Seeing people die for example...

I recall an episode of ER many years ago in which a patient was suffering from Priapism. In this episode, the actors could not say the word "masturbation", but the episode did show a man put a gun in his mouth and blow his brains out....Showed pretty much the whole thing, but they couldn't SAY masturbation.

That's fucked up.