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CDZ avoiding climate catastrophe : paying attention to our methane output should be of bigger concern to us, i and quite a few others think

Toddsterpatriot

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all those cows and pigs we raise for our meat and dairy ain't doing the planet (and thus us humans as well) any good either.

Thankfully, you've stopped using all those products.

Thanks for saving the planet.
 

Stryder50

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Good thing this is not in Science, because to stop earth climate change, one would have to stop the tectonic plates from moving...
That would be one of many factors, given that Earth appears to be the only planet in this Solar System that has significant plate tectonics, yet nearly all the other planets have some degree of atmosphere and hence a "climate".

More to your point is this should also include math. It would appear that the OPer(Opening Poster) is deficient in both Math and Science.

Let's start with the Math, using this Wiki excerpt;
...
...Since 2011 (measurements reported in AR5), concentrations have continued to increase in the atmosphere, reaching annual averages of 410 ppm for carbon dioxide (CO2), 1866 ppb for methane (CH4), and 332 ppb for nitrous oxide (N2O) in 2019. (…) In 2019, ...
...

Note that "ppb" equals "Parts Per Billion" and we could express the level of methane as;
1866/1,000,000,000
This reduces down to;
1/535,905.68

No matter how much "heat" a molecule of methane retains, it can not pass on an equal* amount to the other 535,905 parts of the atmosphere it is in ratio to.

Once again we see misrepresentation and distortion of numbers/data to provide out of perspective propaganda.

As another note here, CO2, at 400 ppm (parts per million) works out to a ratio of;
400/1,000,000
Which reduces to;
1/2,500

Again, the math and basic science of chemistry and physics would show that one part can not pass on equally* the "heat" it retains to 2,499 other parts of the atmosphere.

The whole case for ACC/AGW is based upon distortions, disinformation, hyperbole, ignorance of math and sciences, and intentional propaganda for social/economic/political agendas. It has nothing to do with real science or real climate.

*"equal" and "equally" are the implications in ACC/AGW, but even anything of a significant level is also out of the realm of probability.
 
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EMH

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That would be one of many factors, given that Earth appears to be the only planet in this Solar System that has significant plate tectonics, yet nearly all the other planets have some degree of atmosphere and hence a "climate".

More to your point is this should also include math. It would appear that the OPer(Opening Poster) is deficient in both Math and Science.

Let's start with the Math, using this Wiki excerpt;
...
...Since 2011 (measurements reported in AR5), concentrations have continued to increase in the atmosphere, reaching annual averages of 410 ppm for carbon dioxide (CO2), 1866 ppb for methane (CH4), and 332 ppb for nitrous oxide (N2O) in 2019. (…) In 2019, ...
...

Note that "ppb" equals "Parts Per Billion" and we could express the level of methane as;
1866/1,000,000,000
This reduces down to;
1/535,905.68

No matter how much "heat" a molecule of methane retains, it can not pass on an equal* amount to the other 535,905 parts of the atmosphere it is in ratio to.

Once again we see misrepresentation and distortion of numbers/data to provide out of perspective propaganda.

As another note here, CO2, at 400 ppm (parts per million) works out to a ratio of;
400/1,000,000
Which reduces to;
1/2,500

Again, the math and basic science of chemistry and physics would show that one part can not pass on equally* the "heat" it retains to 2,499 other parts of the atmosphere.

The whole case for ACC/AGW is based upon distortions, disinformation, hyperbole, ignorance of math and sciences, and intentional propaganda for social/economic/political agendas. It has nothing to do with real science or real climate.

*"equal" and "equally" are the implications in ACC/AGW, but even anything of a significant level is also out of the realm of probability.


Then there is the highly correlated satellite and balloon raw data on atmospheric temps that showed no warming in the atmosphere in 2005, when the climate "scientists" fudged both series with uncorrellated "corrections."

Now ponder this. Earth is a room with two AC units, Arctic and Antarctic, each with setting 0= off and 10 = max cool

Right now, Antarctic is set at 9, and Arctic is set at 1. That is 100% about where land is, and land moves.....

90% earth ice on Antarctica
7% earth ice on Greenland

Greenland was totally green a million years ago.

Antarctica had dinosaurs 70 million years ago, because it was not on the South Pole

Ice ages are continent specific.

If earth had two polar oceans, it would have no ice....
 

The Original Tree

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Scientists say this invisible gas could seal our fate on climate change​

By Rachel Ramirez, CNN
Updated 0208 GMT (1008 HKT) August 12, 2021

(CNN)Slashing carbon dioxide emissions is critical to ending the climate crisis. But, for the first time, the UN climate change report emphasized the need to control a more insidious culprit: methane, an invisible, odorless gas with more than 80 times more warming power in the near-term than carbon dioxide.
According to the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the concentration of methane in the atmosphere is higher now than any time in at least 800,000 years.
With Earth rapidly approaching the 1.5-degree-Celsius threshold above preindustrial levels, scientists say methane emissions need to be reduced fast. Charles Koven, a lead author of the IPCC report, said this is due to methane's incredible warming power.
Earth is warming faster than previously thought, scientists say, and the window is closing to avoid catastrophic outcomes
Earth is warming faster than previously thought, scientists say, and the window is closing to avoid catastrophic outcomes
"The fastest way that we might mitigate some of the climate change that we're seeing already in the short term is by reducing methane," Koven told CNN. "If we were to reduce methane emissions, it would act to offset one of these sources of warming."
If the world stopped emitting carbon dioxide tomorrow, Koven said, global temperatures wouldn't begin to cool for many years because of how long the gas stays in the atmosphere. Reducing methane is the easiest knob to turn to change the path of global temperature in the next 10 years, he said.
Methane, the main component of the natural gas we use to fuel our stoves and heat our homes, can be produced in nature by belching volcanoes and decomposing plant matter. But it is also pumped into the atmosphere in much larger amounts by landfills, livestock and the oil and gas industry.

Natural gas has been hailed as a "bridge fuel" that would transition the US to renewable energy because it is more efficient than coal and emits less carbon dioxide when burned. Importantly for industry, natural gas is in abundant supply around the world and is less costly to extract from the ground.


But proponents for this new "cleaner" gas missed a dangerous threat: that it could leak, unburned, into the atmosphere and cause significant warming.
Methane can leak from oil and natural gas wells, natural gas pipelines and the processing equipment itself. According to data from the US Energy Information Administration, the US has thousands of active wells for natural gas, millions of abandoned oil and gas wells, about two million miles of natural gas pipelines, and several refineries that process the gas.
One in three Americans lives in a county with oil and gas operations, posing climate and public health risks, according to a report by the Environmental Defense Fund.

Until recently, tracking the location and magnitude of methane leaks was difficult. Now, infrared cameras and advanced satellites can estimate methane emissions around the globe, giving scientists and regulators insight into what's being released from facilities.
Climatologists at NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration previously told CNN that pernicious changes in the climate system will only intensify unless people stop using fuels that burn and leak greenhouse gases like methane.
"For carbon dioxide, we've always known about power plants and smokestacks and things like that; but with methane, until recent years, we didn't understand how much an influence a small number of large sources have really had," Robert Jackson, professor of environmental science at Stanford University, told CNN. "We didn't understand how long the tail was and how important the super-emitters were for reducing emissions."
The latest IPCC assessment highlights that scientists now have a better understanding of how much methane is being released by human activity like agriculture and the fossil fuel industry, and how much it contributes to the climate crisis.

Around the world, fossil fuels, agriculture and coal mining are skyrocketing methane emissions. Nonetheless, the production and sources vary by region. In the North America, a majority -- 14% of total methane emissions -- come from the oil and gas production followed by livestock at 10%. In China, coal mining is the biggest methane driver, contributing 24% to total emissions.
Though agriculture is a major source of methane, Jackson said the emissions from farming and food production would be harder to tackle.
"There are only certain things we can do with cattle," Jackson said. "We can either ask people to stop eating beef or we can try and give cattle feed additives to change the microbes in the chemistry of their guts. But that's not easy to do for billions of cattle around the world."
The International Energy Agency estimate that the oil and gas industry around the world can reduce methane by 75% using the technology already available. It also estimates that 40% of the emissions could be reduced without extra costs, since the natural gas captured could then be sold.
Flaring at a natural gas processing facility in North Dakota.


Flaring at a natural gas processing facility in North Dakota.
Climate activists like Lisa DeVille, a member of the Mandan, Hidatsa, and Arikara Nation, are urging policymakers to make stringent methane reductions. The Bakken oil field in North Dakota surrounds the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation, where DeVille lives, with nearly 1,000 oil and gas wells that scientists found in 2016 was leaking 275,000 tons of methane per year.
"This means the land that is part of my identity as an Indigenous woman has been turned into a pollution-filled industrial zone," DeVille said. "This is unacceptable."
As the co-founder of the grassroots group Fort Berthold Protectors of Water and Earth Rights, DeVille is tackling environmental regulations head-on. In 2018, the organization successfully sued the Trump administration's Bureau of Land Management for rolling back a critical methane waste prevention rule.
Global temperatures are now at 1.1 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels, according to the report, and the planet is already seeing the impact in the form of extreme fire behavior, severe flooding, relentless drought and deadly heat waves.
The IPCC report makes clear that stopping methane emissions is key to slowing the planet from reaching 1.5 degrees. Scientists say world leaders need to act immediately in tackling all greenhouse gas emissions, and not just carbon dioxide.
Climate scientists have done their bit. Now the pressure is on leaders for COP26.
Climate scientists have done their bit. Now the pressure is on leaders for COP26.
Rick Duke, senior director and White House liaison for John Kerry, President Biden's special climate envoy, told CNN in a press call that reducing methane, and methane leaks, is a top priority for the Biden administration.
"There's been incredible largely behind-the-scenes effort already to prepare to move faster and more comprehensively to cut methane domestically, at the same time that we're addressing this as a diplomatic imperative," Duke said.
Already, pressure is mounting. In June, DeVille discussed tribal issues, particularly slashing methane emissions and transitioning to clean energy quickly and equitably, with Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Michael Regan.
"What we do in the next few years will determine what kind of world we have, what kind of world we leave for our children," said DeVille, who is now seeking to meet with Interior Secretary Deb Haaland to discuss similar issues. "We must rapidly switch to clean energy, stop fossil fuel carbon pollution, and then methane leaks."
CNN's Drew Kann and John Keefe contributed to this report.

My question, especially to the Republican audience and leaders that frequent this forum, is this :
Would you allow Biden to curtail the US' methane output, and with that set an example for the rest of NATO and the world?
An example that by the way would increase world-wide goodwill for the USA.

Global Warming-Climate Change is a lie.

1631548210452.png
 

Missourian

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I have a solution.

If you believe this...move into a mud hut and live your life eating raw veggies.

Problem solved.
 

EMH

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Global Warming-Climate Change is a lie.

View attachment 538662


Words matter.

Try to phrase it this way:

Co2 based climate change is fraud

The climate changes depending on how much land is near the poles. Co2's contribution to earth climate change is either statistically insignificant or absolutely nothing




And if you get any smart ass answers, let me know....
 

Ivan88

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The Globull Warming gurus want money and power.
That is why they limit the discussions to their fear stories.
In reality:
Carbon is necessary for plants to grow... no carbon, and we don't eat;
The Earth's relation to the Sun has changed since around 2000 A.D. with the Tropic of Cancer having moved at least 1200 miles North, causing Summers to be warmer, farther North;
Around a 1,000 years ago, there were farms on Greenland, the Globull Warming gurus never talk about that.
 

Donald H

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The Globull Warming gurus want money and power.
That is why they limit the discussions to their fear stories.
In reality:
Carbon is necessary for plants to grow... no carbon, and we don't eat;
The Earth's relation to the Sun has changed since around 2000 A.D. with the Tropic of Cancer having moved at least 1200 miles North, causing Summers to be warmer, farther North;


WHATTTTTTTTT?
The 'tropic of Cancer' is fixed my boy. It marks the northern extent of the sun.
And I'm no christian trying to say the sun moves north!
Jesus H. ------, you deniers!
 

Hang on sloopy

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you'll need to prove that argument with independent source data.

from what i know, CO2 pollution has already caused major extra methane releases from Siberia, and all those cows and pigs we raise for our meat and dairy ain't doing the planet (and thus us humans as well) any good either.

On top of that, the events in Siberia are very likely to spread to that rather large piece of land called Greenland, where there is *also* a lot of still partially frozen permafrost soil holding a *lot* of methane.

i'll be happy to continue this once you come up with scientific data that outlines how much methane gets released without human interaction, like from the sea bed (and btw, who is to prove that that is not increased by rising temperatures?), and how much methane is going up into the air due to human activities...
I'm still waiting for the Ice Age coming the scientists said in the 70's

Someone is messin with me
 

Ivan88

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The 'tropic of Cancer' is fixed my boy. It marks the northern extent of the sun.
And I'm no christian trying to say the sun moves north!
Jesus H. ------, you deniers!
Has Donald H actually checked the physical reality of what is happening Now?
I have. It is simple to do. Donald could do it too. Next June at the Summer solstice, if you are North of the old Tropic of Cancer, a level/vertical post should cast a shadow Northward at Noon, Standard Time. If the shadow is not so, then the Tropic is North of You, or You are at the Tropic.
And, thus, the Globull Warming gurus have been deceiving folks.
 
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gtopa1

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Plants do require some carbon dioxide in order to produce oxygen during the day, but a massive reserve exists in the oceans for that. Why the hell would life come to an end in hours?
Dissolved oxygen is good if you have gills.

Greg
 

Ivan88

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I'm still waiting for the Ice Age coming the scientists said in the 70's

Someone is messin with me
Good Observation Comrad Hang on Sloopy.
And lots of people are eagerly looking for some of that Globull warming to come to Siberia.
 

Hang on sloopy

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Good Observation Comrad Hang on Sloopy.
And lots of people are eagerly looking for some of that Globull warming to come to Siberia.
I can already tell in 2 posts you are going to be a huge thorn in the lieberals side

When I was a kid the joke would be, "They'd tax the air if they could."

Well kick me square in the arse they found a way to tax farts

This all boils down to farts and farts alone




Are we allowed to say farts in CDZ?
 

Donald H

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Has Donald H actually checked the physical reality of what is happening Now?
I have. It is simple to do. Donald could do it too. Next June at the Summer solstice, if you are North of the old Tropic of Cancer, a level/vertical post should cast a shadow Northward at Noon, Standard Time. If the shadow is not so, then the Tropic is North of You, or You are at the Tropic.
And, thus, the Globull Warming gurus have been deceiving folks.
There's no old T of C. and you've stated it wrong anyway.
If you are on the T. of C. on the summer solstice, the sun will be directly overhead at LHA noon.
You're living in a fantasy world. Jeeeeezzzzz!
 

Staidhup

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So the Earth, a living organism, in a constant stage of evolution, and men still think they have absolute dominion over the earth, really? Man will eventually become extinct, or evolve, so what else is new? Methane and Carbon dioxide are both natural occurring gas’s which all the kings men and horses will not be able to stop or slow the evolutionary process. The focus should be on the quality of life, standard of living, enjoyed by the species known as man. Scientists are great at understanding various phenomena, however, that’s about it. So the logical question is do you live your life like chicken little or to the God given fullest?
 

Ivan88

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There's no old T of C. and you've stated it wrong anyway.
If you are on the T. of C. on the summer solstice, the sun will be directly overhead at LHA noon.
You're living in a fantasy world. Jeeeeezzzzz!
On the West Coast of North America, the old Tropic of Cancer passed through the Southern tip of Baja California, Mexico. Judging from Your comments, Donald H., You have taken no effort to prove your assertions by observation of physical reality. Taking the effort to prove to Yourself the physical reality of this issue would be very beneficial to You in many ways.
 

Ivan88

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I can already tell in 2 posts you are going to be a huge thorn in the lieberals side

When I was a kid the joke would be, "They'd tax the air if they could."

Well kick me square in the arse they found a way to tax farts

This all boils down to farts and farts alone

Are we allowed to say farts in CDZ?
Did You know, Comrad Hang on Sloopy, that a freeway off ramp in German is called an "AUSFART" and the on ramp is called EINFART?
Any way, thanks for the Compliment, and while Your at it, Good Health, Wealth, Happiness and Fun are Yours for the rest of the Year and beyond. Now tell Yourself that You are Doing that, now, even if You think it is a lie.
 

Donald H

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On the West Coast of North America, the old Tropic of Cancer passed through the Southern tip of Baja California, Mexico. Judging from Your comments, Donald H., You have taken no effort to prove your assertions by observation of physical reality. Taking the effort to prove to Yourself the physical reality of this issue would be very beneficial to You in many ways.
The silly notion of the T. of C. moving is just too dumb to bother debating. Jeeezzzzz!

Learn what the T. of C. denotes and get back to me.
 

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