Average hourly rate of an American is $24.06 or $50,044 per year.

[hadit]

The OP thinks raising the minimum wage will be accompanied by a huge drop in demand for services....so business owners can just fire people or cut hours. So easy.

Or...they replace people with robots. They are FREE! And they don't need people to manufacture and maintain them either.

Idiot.

Difference. Robotic manufacturing is skilled labor, and the robots replaced UNskilled labor. A handful of skilled workers make robots that will replace thousands of unskilled workers. A $50,000 robot that replaces 5 minimum wage burger flippers pays for its purchase price in one year.

So the incentive to get rid of workers in fast food is there whether the minimum wage goes up or not.

Of course. Why do you think you pump your own gas, use the self-serve checkout at the grocery store, buy movie tickets from a kiosk or online, etc? When automation is cheaper than human, jobs get replaced.

 

[hadit]

Where would you raise 16 million people when less then 3.5 million make minimum wage?
FACTS where are your FACTS you raise 16 million by raising 3.3 million to $10.80 per hour?
Between age 16 to 24 years,1,797,000 at or below minimum wage..
Tables 1 - 10 Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers 2012

Below table shows... 16 to 24 years old make up 673,000
25 years older... 591,000
Total 16 years and older 3.5 million NOT 16 million!!!
View attachment 32702

That's interesting. Looks like the average McDonald's could absorb a minimum wage hike and still make money.

Not much of one, and when labor costs rise high enough, burger flipping will be automated.

What's the cost per hour of an automated burger flipper?

Momentum Machines The Next Industrial Revolution
Our current device can pay for itself in less than one year, making equipment sales a second path for us.
All it has to do is cost $10.80 X 2,080 hours or $22,464 in the first year... and NOTHING but maintenance the next year.
Also it works 7 days a week 24 hours a day.

Great. And when technology has all but wiped out all labor intensive businesses in this country, and all the jobs that go with them,

but the country continues to produce people needing jobs,

then what happens?

That's what's called the service economy, where the vast majority of jobs consist of doing things for people that they just don't want to do, and the better jobs all require technical ability and training.

 

[hadit]

That's interesting. Looks like the average McDonald's could absorb a minimum wage hike and still make money.

Not much of one, and when labor costs rise high enough, burger flipping will be automated.

What's the cost per hour of an automated burger flipper?

Momentum Machines The Next Industrial Revolution
Our current device can pay for itself in less than one year, making equipment sales a second path for us.
All it has to do is cost $10.80 X 2,080 hours or $22,464 in the first year... and NOTHING but maintenance the next year.
Also it works 7 days a week 24 hours a day.

Great. And when technology has all but wiped out all labor intensive businesses in this country, and all the jobs that go with them,

but the country continues to produce people needing jobs,

then what happens?

Living wages for fewer hours worked. Progress.

No. That never works. More likely a stratified economy, where those with drive and ambition work and earn a good living, while those without don't.

 

[healthmyths]

The OP thinks raising the minimum wage will be accompanied by a huge drop in demand for services....so business owners can just fire people or cut hours. So easy.

Or...they replace people with robots. They are FREE! And they don't need people to manufacture and maintain them either.

Idiot.

Difference. Robotic manufacturing is skilled labor, and the robots replaced UNskilled labor. A handful of skilled workers make robots that will replace thousands of unskilled workers. A $50,000 robot that replaces 5 minimum wage burger flippers pays for its purchase price in one year.

If that were true, it WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE ALREADY.

Robotics isn't cheap enough compared to teenagers with attitudes yet. It's coming.

you are here.Target home home appliances vacuums & floor care vacuums
iRobot® Roomba® 650 Vacuum Cleaning Robot
Product View zoom in.


mouse over image to zoom in.

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

15% OFF WITH CODE
sale price$399.99

 

[kiwiman127]

If a person looks at the historical unemployment rate, when the minimum wage has been increased, there has never been a spike in the unemployment rate.

That's not true. Unemployment increased in 2008, 2009 and 2010 while the minimum wage increased in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division WHD - Minimum Wage

During the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression! You can't be serious!
That is really, really lame.

Read your words again.

Did a massive increase in wages tip the scale on a bubble economy? It's hard to say but it certainly couldn't have helped.

Nice try.
Historically speaking your conjecture defiles all long term and short term historical data. I've never once read anything resembling your conjecture by even conservative economists when addressing the high unemployment during the Great Recession.
Comparing all data certainly debunks the infamous fear talking points of those who oppose raising the minimum wage.
Another fear talking point is that it will effect prices, yet again, historical inflation numbers don't reflect that fear conjecture either.
Be my guest and see that you have been fed another fable.
Historical Inflation Rates 1914-2014 US Inflation Calculator
Now compare inflation with the Minimum Wage increases.
I don't know about you, but it pisses me off when I find out I have been fed bullshit by people I trusted.

 

[hadit]

If a person looks at the historical unemployment rate, when the minimum wage has been increased, there has never been a spike in the unemployment rate.

That's not true. Unemployment increased in 2008, 2009 and 2010 while the minimum wage increased in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division WHD - Minimum Wage

During the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression! You can't be serious!
That is really, really lame.

Read your words again.

Did a massive increase in wages tip the scale on a bubble economy? It's hard to say but it certainly couldn't have helped.

Nice try.
Historically speaking your conjecture defiles all long term and short term historical data. I've never once read anything resembling your conjecture by even conservative economists when addressing the high unemployment during the Great Recession.
Comparing all data certainly debunks the infamous fear talking points of those who oppose raising the minimum wage.
Another fear talking point is that it will effect prices, yet again, historical inflation numbers don't reflect that fear conjecture either.
Be my guest and see that you have been fed another fable.
Historical Inflation Rates 1914-2014 US Inflation Calculator
Now compare inflation with the Minimum Wage increases.
I don't know about you, but it pisses me off when I find out I have been fed bullshit by people I trusted.

Obviously, there is a point beyond which raising the MW destroys a LOT of jobs and the economy. Otherwise we would simply set it to $100/hour and eliminate all poverty. That being said, there is also a point before which raising the MW does NOT destroy a lot of jobs and the economy. It all comes down to how fast and how high do you want to raise it?

 

[kiwiman127]

If a person looks at the historical unemployment rate, when the minimum wage has been increased, there has never been a spike in the unemployment rate.

That's not true. Unemployment increased in 2008, 2009 and 2010 while the minimum wage increased in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division WHD - Minimum Wage

During the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression! You can't be serious!
That is really, really lame.

Read your words again.

Did a massive increase in wages tip the scale on a bubble economy? It's hard to say but it certainly couldn't have helped.

Nice try.
Historically speaking your conjecture defiles all long term and short term historical data. I've never once read anything resembling your conjecture by even conservative economists when addressing the high unemployment during the Great Recession.
Comparing all data certainly debunks the infamous fear talking points of those who oppose raising the minimum wage.
Another fear talking point is that it will effect prices, yet again, historical inflation numbers don't reflect that fear conjecture either.
Be my guest and see that you have been fed another fable.
Historical Inflation Rates 1914-2014 US Inflation Calculator
Now compare inflation with the Minimum Wage increases.
I don't know about you, but it pisses me off when I find out I have been fed bullshit by people I trusted.

Obviously, there is a point beyond which raising the MW destroys a LOT of jobs and the economy. Otherwise we would simply set it to $100/hour and eliminate all poverty. That being said, there is also a point before which raising the MW does NOT destroy a lot of jobs and the economy. It all comes down to how fast and how high do you want to raise it?

I have provided government data that clearly shows there has never been a spike in unemployment when the Minimum Wage has increased and neither has inflation.
We are talking about relatively small increases, particularly when figuring in wages in Real Dollars (constant dollars) versus Nominal Dollars.
Here's the difference:
The median household income in 1989 in current dollars is $28,906. If you compared that with the 1990 median household income of $29,943, there appears to be an increase. If you adjusted that 1989 income for changes in the cost of living (converted it to 1990 constant or real dollars), the resulting 1989 median household income is $30,468 (now a 1989-to-1990 comparison of income shows a decline of 1.7 percent).
Historical Income Tables - Current versus Constant or Real Dollars - U.S Census Bureau

 

[asterism]

If a person looks at the historical unemployment rate, when the minimum wage has been increased, there has never been a spike in the unemployment rate.

That's not true. Unemployment increased in 2008, 2009 and 2010 while the minimum wage increased in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division WHD - Minimum Wage

During the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression! You can't be serious!
That is really, really lame.

Read your words again.

Did a massive increase in wages tip the scale on a bubble economy? It's hard to say but it certainly couldn't have helped.

Nice try.
Historically speaking your conjecture defiles all long term and short term historical data. I've never once read anything resembling your conjecture by even conservative economists when addressing the high unemployment during the Great Recession.
Comparing all data certainly debunks the infamous fear talking points of those who oppose raising the minimum wage.
Another fear talking point is that it will effect prices, yet again, historical inflation numbers don't reflect that fear conjecture either.
Be my guest and see that you have been fed another fable.
Historical Inflation Rates 1914-2014 US Inflation Calculator
Now compare inflation with the Minimum Wage increases.
I don't know about you, but it pisses me off when I find out I have been fed bullshit by people I trusted.

So when the data disproves your point you get different data?

Too funny.

The minimum wage went up in 2007, 2008, and 2009. The unemployment rate went up in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

 

[kiwiman127]

If a person looks at the historical unemployment rate, when the minimum wage has been increased, there has never been a spike in the unemployment rate.

That's not true. Unemployment increased in 2008, 2009 and 2010 while the minimum wage increased in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division WHD - Minimum Wage

During the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression! You can't be serious!
That is really, really lame.

Read your words again.

Did a massive increase in wages tip the scale on a bubble economy? It's hard to say but it certainly couldn't have helped.

Nice try.
Historically speaking your conjecture defiles all long term and short term historical data. I've never once read anything resembling your conjecture by even conservative economists when addressing the high unemployment during the Great Recession.
Comparing all data certainly debunks the infamous fear talking points of those who oppose raising the minimum wage.
Another fear talking point is that it will effect prices, yet again, historical inflation numbers don't reflect that fear conjecture either.
Be my guest and see that you have been fed another fable.
Historical Inflation Rates 1914-2014 US Inflation Calculator
Now compare inflation with the Minimum Wage increases.
I don't know about you, but it pisses me off when I find out I have been fed bullshit by people I trusted.

So when the data disproves your point you get different data?

Too funny.

The minimum wage went up in 2007, 2008, and 2009. The unemployment rate went up in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

Tell you what, instead of wild conjecture, find one economist who thinks that raising the Minimum Wage during 2007, 2008 and 2009 spiked the unemployment numbers. Just one.

What is truly funny is that you are gullible and suck in talking points like someone drowning, sucking for air. It seems about everything your masters told you about the Minimum Wage is factually false. But damn it I'll give your credit for being loyal to those who lied to you.

 

[asterism]

That's not true. Unemployment increased in 2008, 2009 and 2010 while the minimum wage increased in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division WHD - Minimum Wage

During the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression! You can't be serious!
That is really, really lame.

Read your words again.

Did a massive increase in wages tip the scale on a bubble economy? It's hard to say but it certainly couldn't have helped.

Nice try.
Historically speaking your conjecture defiles all long term and short term historical data. I've never once read anything resembling your conjecture by even conservative economists when addressing the high unemployment during the Great Recession.
Comparing all data certainly debunks the infamous fear talking points of those who oppose raising the minimum wage.
Another fear talking point is that it will effect prices, yet again, historical inflation numbers don't reflect that fear conjecture either.
Be my guest and see that you have been fed another fable.
Historical Inflation Rates 1914-2014 US Inflation Calculator
Now compare inflation with the Minimum Wage increases.
I don't know about you, but it pisses me off when I find out I have been fed bullshit by people I trusted.

So when the data disproves your point you get different data?

Too funny.

The minimum wage went up in 2007, 2008, and 2009. The unemployment rate went up in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

Tell you what, instead of wild conjecture, find one economist who thinks that raising the Minimum Wage during 2007, 2008 and 2009 spiked the unemployment numbers. Just one.

What is truly funny is that you are gullible and suck in talking points like someone drowning, sucking for air. It seems about everything your masters told you about the Minimum Wage is factually false. But damn it I'll give your credit for being loyal to those who lied to you.

Who lied to me? I'm not stuck on a talking point, I have facts that contradict your statement. You said that the unemployment rate never spiked after a raise in the minimum wage and and I showed you where that happened three years in a row.

 

[healthmyths]

That's not true. Unemployment increased in 2008, 2009 and 2010 while the minimum wage increased in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division WHD - Minimum Wage

During the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression! You can't be serious!
That is really, really lame.

Read your words again.

Did a massive increase in wages tip the scale on a bubble economy? It's hard to say but it certainly couldn't have helped.

Nice try.
Historically speaking your conjecture defiles all long term and short term historical data. I've never once read anything resembling your conjecture by even conservative economists when addressing the high unemployment during the Great Recession.
Comparing all data certainly debunks the infamous fear talking points of those who oppose raising the minimum wage.
Another fear talking point is that it will effect prices, yet again, historical inflation numbers don't reflect that fear conjecture either.
Be my guest and see that you have been fed another fable.
Historical Inflation Rates 1914-2014 US Inflation Calculator
Now compare inflation with the Minimum Wage increases.
I don't know about you, but it pisses me off when I find out I have been fed bullshit by people I trusted.

So when the data disproves your point you get different data?

Too funny.

The minimum wage went up in 2007, 2008, and 2009. The unemployment rate went up in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

Tell you what, instead of wild conjecture, find one economist who thinks that raising the Minimum Wage during 2007, 2008 and 2009 spiked the unemployment numbers. Just one.

What is truly funny is that you are gullible and suck in talking points like someone drowning, sucking for air. It seems about everything your masters told you about the Minimum Wage is factually false. But damn it I'll give your credit for being loyal to those who lied to you.

FACTS regarding people that earn minimum wage or less...from the government...
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf

See the below to see fewer and fewer people working at or below minimum wage..
In 1979 6,912,000 or 13.4% of all hourly workers or total hourly workers of 87,529,000.
In 1989 3,162,000 or 50% LESS working at minimum wage of the 103,480,000 people working at hourly wage or 5.1%.
In 2009 there were 3,572,000 people or 4.9% working at minimum wage of 124,4902,000.
Finally in 2013 there were 3,300,000 working at minimum or 4.3% of 129,110,000 that work at hourly rate.

NOTE during Bush's year 2006 there were the smallest number of minimum wage earners at 1,692,000 or 2.2% of the 128,237,000 that worked at hourly wage.

 

[kiwiman127]

During the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression! You can't be serious!
That is really, really lame.

Read your words again.

Did a massive increase in wages tip the scale on a bubble economy? It's hard to say but it certainly couldn't have helped.

Nice try.
Historically speaking your conjecture defiles all long term and short term historical data. I've never once read anything resembling your conjecture by even conservative economists when addressing the high unemployment during the Great Recession.
Comparing all data certainly debunks the infamous fear talking points of those who oppose raising the minimum wage.
Another fear talking point is that it will effect prices, yet again, historical inflation numbers don't reflect that fear conjecture either.

Be my guest and see that you have been fed another fable.
Historical Inflation Rates 1914-2014 US Inflation Calculator
Now compare inflation with the Minimum Wage increases.
I don't know about you, but it pisses me off when I find out I have been fed bullshit by people I trusted.

So when the data disproves your point you get different data?

Too funny.

The minimum wage went up in 2007, 2008, and 2009. The unemployment rate went up in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

Tell you what, instead of wild conjecture, find one economist who thinks that raising the Minimum Wage during 2007, 2008 and 2009 spiked the unemployment numbers. Just one.

What is truly funny is that you are gullible and suck in talking points like someone drowning, sucking for air. It seems about everything your masters told you about the Minimum Wage is factually false. But damn it I'll give your credit for being loyal to those who lied to you.

Who lied to me? I'm not stuck on a talking point, I have facts that contradict your statement. You said that the unemployment rate never spiked after a raise in the minimum wage and and I showed you where that happened three years in a row.

Unemployment increased during the Great Recession because the economy tanked the most ot has ever tanked since the Great Recession. As a matter of fact, has the USA ever had a serious recession and not seen a decline in employment?
I challenged you to find one economist that supports your assertion, I'm still waiting. I'l be waiting forever, because no economist ever stated that the unemployment numbers were greater during the Great Recession because of the Minimum Wage increases. Not even during the great Minimum Wage debate was anything like that brought up by opponents of the Minimum Wage. Why is that, if it was true? They provided plenty of other faulty claims but never and I mean never made such an outrageous claim. They aren't that ignorant.

 

[Conservative65]

Explain to me folks how putting 1 million plus people under 25 out of work is good?

You really think that thousands of businesses are going to close up just over an increase in the minimum wage?

An increase in minimum wage, say $1/hour, isn't the same as a more than doubling of the minimum wage like the $15/hour proposed by low skilled fast food workers.