ATF Atrocity

[indago]

Overzelous prosecutor with and agenda and/or a piss poor statute.

I REALLY should read the whole thread before posting

Boy, I'll say...

 

[Diuretic]

Overzelous prosecutor with and agenda and/or a piss poor statute.

I REALLY should read the whole thread before posting

Boy, I'll say...

I can't help my enthusiasm!

 

[Dr Grump]

Maybe we wouldn't have Ruby Ridges.

You'd have the wild west...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Maybe we wouldn't have Ruby Ridges.

You'd have the wild west...

That excuse gets used every time a concealed carry law gets passed or some onerous firearms restriction is lifted and look? It as not happened yet.

You are aware of what happened at Ruby Ridge? The ATF wanted evidence against a group so they set a guy up illegally to make them a sawed off shotgun. Then they tried to blackmail him into spying for them. He refused and went to ground on his own property with his family.

The FBI moved in and using ILLEGAL rules of engagement surprised his 14 year old son, killed the family dog in front of said son, who fired back and then they killed the son.

Then they changed the sniper rules and allowed a sniper to fire without proper identification or proper cause at an unarmed man running to his house, killing his wife and I believe, the baby she was holding.

And guess what? When he was finally brought to trial? All charges were found to be illegal, fabricated or non existant.

And you ask what happened to the FBI Sniper? Why he got promoted as did the man in charge of the episode.

Government sanctioned murder of an unarmed woman and her baby. FOR NO REASON. The man was unarmed and running for his house when the sniper fired, which is completely against all rules of engagement for FBI snipers.

 

[mightypeon]

Well, I personally believe that there is not much wrong with owning an automatic rifle, assuming you are not a felon or something.
However, I do not really get how the persecution managed to convince the jury that a "malfunctioning rifle" is a machine gun.
I would personally love to have a transcript.

 

[Ravi]

Well, I personally believe that there is not much wrong with owning an automatic rifle, assuming you are not a felon or something.
However, I do not really get how the persecution managed to convince the jury that a "malfunctioning rifle" is a machine gun.
I would personally love to have a transcript.

Here's the definition of a machine gun, under US Law.

(b) Machinegun The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

He wasn't charged with owning a machine gun, he was charged with illegally transferring the machine gun, something I believe has been on the books since the 1930s. I don't think he was charged with owning it because he owned it prior to 1986 when it was much easier for someone to legally own a machine gun...and as someone posted above, the gun was recognized as a machine gun around 1986.

 

[Tech_Esq]

How can a semi-auto AR-15 "miss-fire" and shoot multiple rounds? It can't. The owner may have put an automatic sear in the weapon to make it fully automatic.

Drop In Auto Sear

Yes it can. The sear that is installed can wear down or even break so that it does indeed fire automatically. It is illegal to intentionally file down the sear on firearms designed and built to fire semi-automatically. If anything, the firearm owner could have been negligent in not inspecting the weapon for excessive wear, especially if the weapon had several thousand rounds fired through it over time.

I'll have to take your word for it CSM, but I've fired lots and lots of M-16s and M-16A1s (since the AR-15 was 20 years old, they would be comparative) that were, shall we say "long in the tooth." I have never been on a range or otherwise firing my weapon when it has "double-fired" on semi. Nor have I ever been in the presence of anyone else when this has happened.

I have had quite a few jams (mostly when firing blanks) but never did a double-fire take place. I have had a double-feed of course, but that would be a different thing. Now maybe it's all that superior Army weapon's maintenance, but I would think I'd have come across it or heard about it.

If you say that the sear can wear by use to a point that it is effectually the same as being filed down to be full-auto, I'll take your word for it. (But I have my eye on you.)

 

[Tech_Esq]

Maybe we wouldn't have Ruby Ridges.

You'd have the wild west...

That excuse gets used every time a concealed carry law gets passed or some onerous firearms restriction is lifted and look? It as not happened yet.

You are aware of what happened at Ruby Ridge? The ATF wanted evidence against a group so they set a guy up illegally to make them a sawed off shotgun. Then they tried to blackmail him into spying for them. He refused and went to ground on his own property with his family.

The FBI moved in and using ILLEGAL rules of engagement surprised his 14 year old son, killed the family dog in front of said son, who fired back and then they killed the son.

Then they changed the sniper rules and allowed a sniper to fire without proper identification or proper cause at an unarmed man running to his house, killing his wife and I believe, the baby she was holding.

And guess what? When he was finally brought to trial? All charges were found to be illegal, fabricated or non existant.

And you ask what happened to the FBI Sniper? Why he got promoted as did the man in charge of the episode.

Government sanctioned murder of an unarmed woman and her baby. FOR NO REASON. The man was unarmed and running for his house when the sniper fired, which is completely against all rules of engagement for FBI snipers.

Hopefully, the Obama administration does not pursue this kind of armed warfare against Americans that the Clinton Administration did.