Assassinating American Citizens ... for or against?

[Paulie]

Thanks, but I've decided that it is pointless to argue with these morons. The difference has been explained to them repeatedly and they just stick their fingers in their ears.

I'd prefer such a memo not be "secret".

If this citizen's constitutional rights are/were potentially at stake here, I'd like to know the details and the explanations from the administration and anyone who was part of the information dissemination. I believe it's our business as well, as fellow citizens.

I'm not apt to just accept the WORD of any administration or its lawyers, no matter what the political affiliation of any of them. I'm getting a bit tired of all of these extreme measures that are being undertaken by our government where the only justification we're given is "memos" at best, and "sorry, it's a secret" at worst.

Where is the transparency?

There was no secret that this guy was marked as a war target.

That's not what I'm talking about though. There was a "secret memo" regarding the details behind the whole situation.

Nothing needs to be kept a secret about the details of the government's justification, reasoning, etc, for setting out to willfully kill a US citizen.

It's become way too easy for the government to simply justify secrets in the name of "national security".

 

[Ravi]

I'd prefer such a memo not be "secret".

If this citizen's constitutional rights are/were potentially at stake here, I'd like to know the details and the explanations from the administration and anyone who was part of the information dissemination. I believe it's our business as well, as fellow citizens.

I'm not apt to just accept the WORD of any administration or its lawyers, no matter what the political affiliation of any of them. I'm getting a bit tired of all of these extreme measures that are being undertaken by our government where the only justification we're given is "memos" at best, and "sorry, it's a secret" at worst.

Where is the transparency?

There was no secret that this guy was marked as a war target.

That's not what I'm talking about though. There was a "secret memo" regarding the details behind the whole situation.

Nothing needs to be kept a secret about the details of the government's justification, reasoning, etc, for setting out to willfully kill a US citizen.

It's become way too easy for the government to simply justify secrets in the name of "national security".

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I'd prefer such a memo not be "secret".

If this citizen's constitutional rights are/were potentially at stake here, I'd like to know the details and the explanations from the administration and anyone who was part of the information dissemination. I believe it's our business as well, as fellow citizens.

I'm not apt to just accept the WORD of any administration or its lawyers, no matter what the political affiliation of any of them. I'm getting a bit tired of all of these extreme measures that are being undertaken by our government where the only justification we're given is "memos" at best, and "sorry, it's a secret" at worst.

Where is the transparency?

There was no secret that this guy was marked as a war target.

That's not what I'm talking about though. There was a "secret memo" regarding the details behind the whole situation.

Nothing needs to be kept a secret about the details of the government's justification, reasoning, etc, for setting out to willfully kill a US citizen.

It's become way too easy for the government to simply justify secrets in the name of "national security".

Not true.

Intelligence consists of the information gathered and the source of that information. Release to the general public of classified information can often lead to (a) the source of that information and (b) the method used to gather the information (as in HUMINT, SIGINT, ELINT, etc.) which would then compromise the ability to gather (reliably) intelligence using the same methods/source in the future and (especially in the case of HUMINT) could lead the the capture and/or death of the source.

That's why there are Congressional oversight committees that are part of the "National Security" structure so they are read into these programs and receive briefings on the types of information developed and the sources that information comes from.

As an ELINT gatherer for the United States Navy, to this day I am still bound under provision of 18 USC §798 (Disclosure of Classified Information).



>>>>

 

[Valerie]

It was NO secret that he continually preached Jihad in his "sermons" and was in close contact with active terrorist activity. As someone else so eloquently put it, the US Constitution is not a suicide pact!

Al-Awlaki the dead terrorist - Jihad Watch

 

[Xchel]

Valerie, so we attempt to take him into custody to charge him with treason...we don't just make him an assasination target...that is the solution our enemies would take with their citizens that is not something as Americans that we should ever approve of. If we are so certain he is guilty of treason, capture his butt and try him..if he gets killed in the attempt to capture him well that is just the breaks but if he is captured he is tried...but hell we don't do what we did it just cheapens who we are as a country and our belief in justice.

 

[Dune]

There was no secret that this guy was marked as a war target.

That's not what I'm talking about though. There was a "secret memo" regarding the details behind the whole situation.

Nothing needs to be kept a secret about the details of the government's justification, reasoning, etc, for setting out to willfully kill a US citizen.

It's become way too easy for the government to simply justify secrets in the name of "national security".

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Obviously.

 

[Valerie]

Valerie, so we attempt to take him into custody to charge him with treason...we don't just make him an assasination target...that is the solution our enemies would take with their citizens that is not something as Americans that we should ever approve of. If we are so certain he is guilty of treason, capture his butt and try him..if he gets killed in the attempt to capture him well that is just the breaks but if he is captured he is tried...but hell we don't do what we did it just cheapens who we are as a country and our belief in justice.

It wasn't an "assassination" list it was a "kill or capture" list and that (in BIG type) ^^ is exactly what happened...So really we agree and you are only speculating or imagining that it didn't happen that way...


He failed to show up in Yemeni court and continually evaded capture. He refused to surrender himself and chose to hide away. The US Military, in cooperation with the Yemeni government who had a warrant on his head, tried to negotiate with those who were harboring him and they continually refused to turn him in. Meanwhile, our soldiers on the ground were under fire in the process. The decision was made to target with a drone and the operation was ultimately successful.

 

[High_Gravity]

Valerie, so we attempt to take him into custody to charge him with treason...we don't just make him an assasination target...that is the solution our enemies would take with their citizens that is not something as Americans that we should ever approve of. If we are so certain he is guilty of treason, capture his butt and try him..if he gets killed in the attempt to capture him well that is just the breaks but if he is captured he is tried...but hell we don't do what we did it just cheapens who we are as a country and our belief in justice.

How are we supposed to do that? you make capturing Anwar sound so easy.

 

[Si modo]

Valerie, so we attempt to take him into custody to charge him with treason...we don't just make him an assasination target...that is the solution our enemies would take with their citizens that is not something as Americans that we should ever approve of. If we are so certain he is guilty of treason, capture his butt and try him..if he gets killed in the attempt to capture him well that is just the breaks but if he is captured he is tried...but hell we don't do what we did it just cheapens who we are as a country and our belief in justice.

It wasn't an "assassination" list it was a "kill or capture" list and that (in BIG type) ^^ is exactly what happened...So really we agree and you are only speculating or imagining that it didn't happen that way...


He failed to show up in Yemeni court and continually evaded capture. He refused to surrender himself and chose to hide away. The US Military, in cooperation with the Yemeni government who had a warrant on his head, tried to negotiate with those who were harboring him and they continually refused to turn him in. Meanwhile, our soldiers on the ground were under fire in the process. The decision was made to target with a drone and the operation was ultimately successful.

Not that I take any pride in thinking like a likely terrorist, I sure as hell wouldn't try to turn myself in to any government who had standing orders to kill (or capture) me. If I wanted to stay breathing, that is.

 

[Valerie]

Valerie, so we attempt to take him into custody to charge him with treason...we don't just make him an assasination target...that is the solution our enemies would take with their citizens that is not something as Americans that we should ever approve of. If we are so certain he is guilty of treason, capture his butt and try him..if he gets killed in the attempt to capture him well that is just the breaks but if he is captured he is tried...but hell we don't do what we did it just cheapens who we are as a country and our belief in justice.

It wasn't an "assassination" list it was a "kill or capture" list and that (in BIG type) ^^ is exactly what happened...So really we agree and you are only speculating or imagining that it didn't happen that way...


He failed to show up in Yemeni court and continually evaded capture. He refused to surrender himself and chose to hide away. The US Military, in cooperation with the Yemeni government who had a warrant on his head, tried to negotiate with those who were harboring him and they continually refused to turn him in. Meanwhile, our soldiers on the ground were under fire in the process. The decision was made to target with a drone and the operation was ultimately successful.

Not that I take any pride in thinking like a likely terrorist, I sure as hell wouldn't try to turn myself in to any government who had standing orders to kill (or capture) me. If I wanted to stay breathing, that is.

Yeah, that worked out so well for him, huh...?





Johnny Walker Lindh is still breathing, BTW.........




Walker Lindh was sentenced to 20 years in prison as part of an agreement reached in July under which he pled guilty to one count of supplying services to the Taliban and a criminal information charge that he carried a rifle and two hand grenades while fighting against the U.S.-backed Northern Alliance.

As part of the plea deal, the government dropped all other counts in a lengthy criminal indictment, including one of the most serious charges -- conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals. CIA officer Johnny Michael Spann was killed in the Mazar-e Sharif uprising.

"He was a soldier in the Taliban. He did it for religious reasons. He did it as a Muslim, and history overcame him," his attorney, James Brosnahan, said in July.



Federal prosecutors have told the judge they have no objections to Walker Lindh's request to serve his prison time near his family.


CNN Programs - People in the News

 

[Si modo]

It wasn't an "assassination" list it was a "kill or capture" list and that (in BIG type) ^^ is exactly what happened...So really we agree and you are only speculating or imagining that it didn't happen that way...


He failed to show up in Yemeni court and continually evaded capture. He refused to surrender himself and chose to hide away. The US Military, in cooperation with the Yemeni government who had a warrant on his head, tried to negotiate with those who were harboring him and they continually refused to turn him in. Meanwhile, our soldiers on the ground were under fire in the process. The decision was made to target with a drone and the operation was ultimately successful.

Not that I take any pride in thinking like a likely terrorist, I sure as hell wouldn't try to turn myself in to any government who had standing orders to kill (or capture) me. If I wanted to stay breathing, that is.

Yeah, that worked out so well for him, huh...?





Johnny Walker Lindh is still breathing, BTW.........




Walker Lindh was sentenced to 20 years in prison as part of an agreement reached in July under which he pled guilty to one count of supplying services to the Taliban and a criminal information charge that he carried a rifle and two hand grenades while fighting against the U.S.-backed Northern Alliance.

As part of the plea deal, the government dropped all other counts in a lengthy criminal indictment, including one of the most serious charges -- conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals. CIA officer Johnny Michael Spann was killed in the Mazar-e Sharif uprising.

"He was a soldier in the Taliban. He did it for religious reasons. He did it as a Muslim, and history overcame him," his attorney, James Brosnahan, said in July.



Federal prosecutors have told the judge they have no objections to Walker Lindh's request to serve his prison time near his family.


CNN Programs - People in the News

WFT?

Two countries, the USA and Yemen, didn't have a dead or alive order on Lindh.

Again. Yeah, it makes perfect sense to turn yourself into a government that has a kill order on you, if you have a desire to remain breathing.

 

[High_Gravity]

Not that I take any pride in thinking like a likely terrorist, I sure as hell wouldn't try to turn myself in to any government who had standing orders to kill (or capture) me. If I wanted to stay breathing, that is.

Yeah, that worked out so well for him, huh...?





Johnny Walker Lindh is still breathing, BTW.........




Walker Lindh was sentenced to 20 years in prison as part of an agreement reached in July under which he pled guilty to one count of supplying services to the Taliban and a criminal information charge that he carried a rifle and two hand grenades while fighting against the U.S.-backed Northern Alliance.

As part of the plea deal, the government dropped all other counts in a lengthy criminal indictment, including one of the most serious charges -- conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals. CIA officer Johnny Michael Spann was killed in the Mazar-e Sharif uprising.

"He was a soldier in the Taliban. He did it for religious reasons. He did it as a Muslim, and history overcame him," his attorney, James Brosnahan, said in July.



Federal prosecutors have told the judge they have no objections to Walker Lindh's request to serve his prison time near his family.


CNN Programs - People in the News

WFT?

Two countries, the USA and Yemen, didn't have a dead or alive order on Lindh.

Again. Yeah, it makes perfect sense to turn yourself into a government that has a kill order on you, if you have a desire to remain breathing.

He could have arranged to turn himself in to a neautral country, that would have been a start.

 

[Valerie]

Not that I take any pride in thinking like a likely terrorist, I sure as hell wouldn't try to turn myself in to any government who had standing orders to kill (or capture) me. If I wanted to stay breathing, that is.

Yeah, that worked out so well for him, huh...?





Johnny Walker Lindh is still breathing, BTW.........




Walker Lindh was sentenced to 20 years in prison as part of an agreement reached in July under which he pled guilty to one count of supplying services to the Taliban and a criminal information charge that he carried a rifle and two hand grenades while fighting against the U.S.-backed Northern Alliance.

As part of the plea deal, the government dropped all other counts in a lengthy criminal indictment, including one of the most serious charges -- conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals. CIA officer Johnny Michael Spann was killed in the Mazar-e Sharif uprising.

"He was a soldier in the Taliban. He did it for religious reasons. He did it as a Muslim, and history overcame him," his attorney, James Brosnahan, said in July.



Federal prosecutors have told the judge they have no objections to Walker Lindh's request to serve his prison time near his family.


CNN Programs - People in the News

WFT?

Again. Two countries, the USA and Yemen, didn't have a dead or alive order on Lindh.

Yeah, it makes perfect sense to turn yourself into a government that has a kill order on you, if you have a desire to remain breathing.

Especially if you intend to end up a martyr for the Jihad cause in order to create more fodder for the spread of Anti-America propaganda...



He would have received his due process if he had surrendered.

 

[Si modo]

Yeah, that worked out so well for him, huh...?





Johnny Walker Lindh is still breathing, BTW.........




Walker Lindh was sentenced to 20 years in prison as part of an agreement reached in July under which he pled guilty to one count of supplying services to the Taliban and a criminal information charge that he carried a rifle and two hand grenades while fighting against the U.S.-backed Northern Alliance.

As part of the plea deal, the government dropped all other counts in a lengthy criminal indictment, including one of the most serious charges -- conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals. CIA officer Johnny Michael Spann was killed in the Mazar-e Sharif uprising.

"He was a soldier in the Taliban. He did it for religious reasons. He did it as a Muslim, and history overcame him," his attorney, James Brosnahan, said in July.



Federal prosecutors have told the judge they have no objections to Walker Lindh's request to serve his prison time near his family.


CNN Programs - People in the News

WFT?

Again. Two countries, the USA and Yemen, didn't have a dead or alive order on Lindh.

Yeah, it makes perfect sense to turn yourself into a government that has a kill order on you, if you have a desire to remain breathing.

Especially if you intend to end up a martyr for the Jihad cause in order to create more fodder for the spread of Anti-America propaganda...

....

And, it sure would be nice if there was any evidence of that.

.... He would have received his due process if he had surrendered.

Or he would have been killed on sight. That's how 'dead or alive' and 'kill or capture' orders work.

 

[High_Gravity]

WFT?

Again. Two countries, the USA and Yemen, didn't have a dead or alive order on Lindh.

Yeah, it makes perfect sense to turn yourself into a government that has a kill order on you, if you have a desire to remain breathing.

Especially if you intend to end up a martyr for the Jihad cause in order to create more fodder for the spread of Anti-America propaganda...

....

And, it sure would be nice if there was any evidence of that.

.... He would have received his due process if he had surrendered.

Or he would have been killed on sight. That's how 'dead or alive' and 'kill or capture' orders work.

You can google Anwars videos on line, he was not shy about what he stood for.

 

[Si modo]

Especially if you intend to end up a martyr for the Jihad cause in order to create more fodder for the spread of Anti-America propaganda...

....

And, it sure would be nice if there was any evidence of that.

.... He would have received his due process if he had surrendered.

Or he would have been killed on sight. That's how 'dead or alive' and 'kill or capture' orders work.

You can google Anwars videos on line, he was not shy about what he stood for.

I understand what he stood for and, to me, that makes him a terrorist pig and a piece of shit. Apparently, HE did not want to be a martyr, he recruited others for that.

Yes, he is a POS. Yes, he did have ugly rhetoric toward the USA. As far as I know, ugly rhetoric is not a capital crime, in the USA, that is.

If it is now, I need to know. As a citizen, I value free speech and living.

 

[High_Gravity]

And, it sure would be nice if there was any evidence of that.


Or he would have been killed on sight. That's how 'dead or alive' and 'kill or capture' orders work.

You can google Anwars videos on line, he was not shy about what he stood for.

I understand what he stood for and, to me, that makes him a terrorist pig and a piece of shit. Apparently, HE did not want to be a martyr, he recruited others for that.

Yes, he is a POS. Yes, he did have ugly rhetoric toward the USA. As far as I know, ugly rhetoric is not a capital crime, in the USA, that is.

If it is now, I need to know. As a citizen, I value free speech and living.

Hes the one who trained and equipped the underwear bomber who landed in Detroit, and he had conversations with Nidal Hassan and inspired him to kill Soldiers on Fort Hood, those are crimes.

 

[Liability]

You can google Anwars videos on line, he was not shy about what he stood for.

I understand what he stood for and, to me, that makes him a terrorist pig and a piece of shit. Apparently, HE did not want to be a martyr, he recruited others for that.

Yes, he is a POS. Yes, he did have ugly rhetoric toward the USA. As far as I know, ugly rhetoric is not a capital crime, in the USA, that is.

If it is now, I need to know. As a citizen, I value free speech and living.

Hes the one who trained and equipped the underwear bomber who landed in Detroit, and he had conversations with Nidal Hassan and inspired him to kill Soldiers on Fort Hood, those are crimes.

Absolutely.

If propaganda on behalf of an enemy at war with us by one of their leaders is not a part of their war effort, then where DO we draw the line as to what constitutes acts of war by an enemy?m And let's be honest here. Al-Awlaki's propaganda was not just rancid "words." They were effective recruitment efforts and they were motivational exhortations to take up arms against the enemy of al qaeda, us.

 

[Ravi]

And, it sure would be nice if there was any evidence of that.


Or he would have been killed on sight. That's how 'dead or alive' and 'kill or capture' orders work.

You can google Anwars videos on line, he was not shy about what he stood for.

I understand what he stood for and, to me, that makes him a terrorist pig and a piece of shit. Apparently, HE did not want to be a martyr, he recruited others for that.

Yes, he is a POS. Yes, he did have ugly rhetoric toward the USA. As far as I know, ugly rhetoric is not a capital crime, in the USA, that is.

If it is now, I need to know. As a citizen, I value free speech and living.

Did you think bin laden didn't deserve to die, as well?

 

[Si modo]

You can google Anwars videos on line, he was not shy about what he stood for.

I understand what he stood for and, to me, that makes him a terrorist pig and a piece of shit. Apparently, HE did not want to be a martyr, he recruited others for that.

Yes, he is a POS. Yes, he did have ugly rhetoric toward the USA. As far as I know, ugly rhetoric is not a capital crime, in the USA, that is.

If it is now, I need to know. As a citizen, I value free speech and living.

Hes the one who trained and equipped the underwear bomber who landed in Detroit, and he had conversations with Nidal Hassan and inspired him to kill Soldiers on Fort Hood, those are crimes.

Yes, they are. And, the evidence is sole-sourced evidence from those who convicted, sentenced, and killed him.

Now that's some scary power - no balance, no check - that the Constitution was designed to prevent.