Arminian Calvinist Universalist: Right ways to teach these vs Wrong ways inconsistent with the Bible

[Parture]

I have been taught by spirit teachers that we are immortal spirits that were breathed out of God and sealed in a bubble of energy called the soul, or causal body. Our soul is God within God but it is cut off from the divine source and has to find its own way back to self realisation. This entails descending into incarnation in the physical body where we can gain experience through actions of our own with free will. We do not remember our original spiritual status and learn through trial and error. Actions cause reactions, and we answer for all of it through karma. There are angels of karma who oversee the evolution of the human family by guiding us to incarnate in a life that will further our growth. They are unaffected by our sufferings as they are only concerned with what is good for our souls. We ourselves on this planet have all had many lives before because we are too far along the path of evolution to be new souls. We are responsible for our own actions and not the actions of our ancestors, unless we were incarnated at that time.

I believe we incarnate thousands of times in a cycle of evolution that ultimately leads back to God consciousness. We do this on many different planets in the cycle of our lives. When we finally complete our cycle of lives we continue to grow in higher realms, and we remember all our past lives at that time. Or anyway, that is what the spirit guides I have listened to have said. As I have said we do not come back as animals, we evolve as a spiritual family of humans.

Spirit guides I refer to are purportedly the discarnate spirits who have taken earthy mediums in trance and spoken with their mouths. Of course the mediums may have been fakes, or as some would have it, they might have been possessed by demons. But I could feel psychic energy in their presence myself, and it was uplifting.
I think I would have known if I was in the presence of evil.

No. God created you. Your soul did not create you. And the Holy Spirit does not enter a person who is not born-again.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Parture sorry I gave you the wrong impression that I reject God.
I believe God's truth will correct all false teaching error
in the process of establishing God's truth by agreement in Christ.

Thank you for helping with that process of correcting error
and establishing where we agree.

Remember Jesus calls us to remove the beam from our
own eyes before helping a neighbor remove a splinter.

Can you tell me what beam it is you need to remove from your eye
before you can correct me with my splinters?

Emily, you try to skirt the issue that you are a universalist but that is the very reason you are going to Hell, because you will forever reject such a God who sends people to Hell for eternity, so you belong in Hell.

Hi Parture I will ask GISMYS and Jeremiah to join this conversation.
I believe you and they may be called to address Pharisees and Elders of
groups, cults and denominations who are teaching divisive things.

I support you in addressing the Elders and HEADS of these groups you are so opposed to.

You keep railing against Universalists and Calvinists,
even though I made it clear I do not believe in what
Universalists teach that either rejects Christ/God or appears to.

If it causes division and isn't in the Bible, it isn't necessary to cause this division,
so I agreed to drop it.

If you continue to harp on it then your issue is with Universalists,
so I support you in addressing them.

I believe this is good for unifying the body of Christ to resolve all these conflicts.
So I hope GISMYS and JEREMIAH will join in support of you to
rebuke and correct the Calvinists, Universalists and anyone else teaching things in erroneous,
wrongful, divisive or deceitful manner.

I am happy to help you set that up for you to join in correcting
the heads of all these groups.

Thank you Parture!

The only thing I really have to say in your case is that you are going to Hell because you are a universalist.

Well, since you keep saying it's because I am teaching things "not in the Bible,"
show me where in the Bible it says "universalists" are going to hell.

Otherwise you are also teaching things not literally stated in the Bible either.

Please remove the beam from your own eye
and then you can better help your neighbors.

BTW I looked up both Universalists and Christian Universalists
so there are different types.

I may be more LIKE the Christian Universalists,
but at this point I believe I am a
Constitutionalist Christian.

I believe the natural laws represented by Constitutional principles
apply to all people and that is what I live by and enforce.

Constitutional laws are specific and have a whole lot of
political religion attached to them now.

But the pure natural laws are still universal to all humanity.
I believe Christ Jesus fulfills those natural laws as Restorative Justice.

Parture if you do not believe in invoking Christ Jesus authority
to bring correction and healing by the Holy Spirit,
then you may be even more "secular gentile" than I am.

You don't seem to follow the Bible about removing the beam
from your own eye before helping a neighbor remove a splinter,
and you don't seem to believe in
"forgiving trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

So maybe teddyearp and ninja007 JakeStarkey and others are right
that you are not Christian and you reject Christ and God while
proclaiming to enforce the laws, as Antichrist and False Prophet seek to do.

Parture again I apologize if I mistook you as a Christian believer
and held you to those Biblical standards, which I thought you committed to live by,
if your only point is to abuse religion to condemn people to hell.

If so, if you do not really believe in the power of divine forgiveness
and grace in Christ Jesus to make all things right and new,
I will apologize to the others who I misrepresented this to
and told them that you were a witness if I was mistaken.

I really thought your concern was real, but you don't seem to respond.

Thank you anyway and sorry I mistook you for a real believer
who was really trying to correct things.

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25.46).

Since there is no sin the New City and you carry around with you the sin of universalism, you will go to everlasting punishment to Hell forever.

Hi Parture since we struck out with Universal approaches
let's start with yours. Can you explain your Arminian views?
I will ask GISMYS and Jeremiah to help review if these are Biblical.

Thanks Parture let's start with YOUR teachings since you believe THOSE are correct.
Let's not spread any more teachings that you agree are false because that isn't teaching what is true.
-------------
Dear GISMYS and Jeremiah
Do you know anything about Arminians and Calvinists?

I started this thread and got stuck with Parture.
Can you help me talk with him or check if what he believes as an Arminian is Christian?

He won't answer questions from me
so maybe he will answer you if you are literal to the Bible.

If he turns out not to understand can you please witness to him so he may be saved
Thank you very much

 

[Parture]

Emily, you try to skirt the issue that you are a universalist but that is the very reason you are going to Hell, because you will forever reject such a God who sends people to Hell for eternity, so you belong in Hell.

Hi Parture I will ask GISMYS and Jeremiah to join this conversation.
I believe you and they may be called to address Pharisees and Elders of
groups, cults and denominations who are teaching divisive things.

I support you in addressing the Elders and HEADS of these groups you are so opposed to.

You keep railing against Universalists and Calvinists,
even though I made it clear I do not believe in what
Universalists teach that either rejects Christ/God or appears to.

If it causes division and isn't in the Bible, it isn't necessary to cause this division,
so I agreed to drop it.

If you continue to harp on it then your issue is with Universalists,
so I support you in addressing them.

I believe this is good for unifying the body of Christ to resolve all these conflicts.
So I hope GISMYS and JEREMIAH will join in support of you to
rebuke and correct the Calvinists, Universalists and anyone else teaching things in erroneous,
wrongful, divisive or deceitful manner.

I am happy to help you set that up for you to join in correcting
the heads of all these groups.

Thank you Parture!

The only thing I really have to say in your case is that you are going to Hell because you are a universalist.

Well, since you keep saying it's because I am teaching things "not in the Bible,"
show me where in the Bible it says "universalists" are going to hell.

Otherwise you are also teaching things not literally stated in the Bible either.

Please remove the beam from your own eye
and then you can better help your neighbors.

BTW I looked up both Universalists and Christian Universalists
so there are different types.

I may be more LIKE the Christian Universalists,
but at this point I believe I am a
Constitutionalist Christian.

I believe the natural laws represented by Constitutional principles
apply to all people and that is what I live by and enforce.

Constitutional laws are specific and have a whole lot of
political religion attached to them now.

But the pure natural laws are still universal to all humanity.
I believe Christ Jesus fulfills those natural laws as Restorative Justice.

Parture if you do not believe in invoking Christ Jesus authority
to bring correction and healing by the Holy Spirit,
then you may be even more "secular gentile" than I am.

You don't seem to follow the Bible about removing the beam
from your own eye before helping a neighbor remove a splinter,
and you don't seem to believe in
"forgiving trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

So maybe teddyearp and ninja007 JakeStarkey and others are right
that you are not Christian and you reject Christ and God while
proclaiming to enforce the laws, as Antichrist and False Prophet seek to do.

Parture again I apologize if I mistook you as a Christian believer
and held you to those Biblical standards, which I thought you committed to live by,
if your only point is to abuse religion to condemn people to hell.

If so, if you do not really believe in the power of divine forgiveness
and grace in Christ Jesus to make all things right and new,
I will apologize to the others who I misrepresented this to
and told them that you were a witness if I was mistaken.

I really thought your concern was real, but you don't seem to respond.

Thank you anyway and sorry I mistook you for a real believer
who was really trying to correct things.

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25.46).

Since there is no sin the New City and you carry around with you the sin of universalism, you will go to everlasting punishment to Hell forever.

Hi Parture since we struck out with Universal approaches
let's start with yours. Can you explain your Arminian views?
I will ask GISMYS and Jeremiah to help review if these are Biblical.

Thanks Parture let's start with YOUR teachings since you believe THOSE are correct.
Let's not spread any more teachings that you agree are false because that isn't teaching what is true.
-------------
Dear GISMYS and Jeremiah
Do you know anything about Arminians and Calvinists?

I started this thread and got stuck with Parture.
Can you help me talk with him or check if what he believes as an Arminian is Christian?

He won't answer questions from me
so maybe he will answer you if you are literal to the Bible.

If he turns out not to understand can you please witness to him so he may be saved
Thank you very much

Since the Bible is clear universalism is a heresy and nobody believes in universalism in heaven, then you can't go to heaven. You have to remain in Hell for eternity. Seems reasonable.

 

[emilynghiem]

I have been taught by spirit teachers that we are immortal spirits that were breathed out of God and sealed in a bubble of energy called the soul, or causal body. Our soul is God within God but it is cut off from the divine source and has to find its own way back to self realisation. This entails descending into incarnation in the physical body where we can gain experience through actions of our own with free will. We do not remember our original spiritual status and learn through trial and error. Actions cause reactions, and we answer for all of it through karma. There are angels of karma who oversee the evolution of the human family by guiding us to incarnate in a life that will further our growth. They are unaffected by our sufferings as they are only concerned with what is good for our souls. We ourselves on this planet have all had many lives before because we are too far along the path of evolution to be new souls. We are responsible for our own actions and not the actions of our ancestors, unless we were incarnated at that time.

I believe we incarnate thousands of times in a cycle of evolution that ultimately leads back to God consciousness. We do this on many different planets in the cycle of our lives. When we finally complete our cycle of lives we continue to grow in higher realms, and we remember all our past lives at that time. Or anyway, that is what the spirit guides I have listened to have said. As I have said we do not come back as animals, we evolve as a spiritual family of humans.

Spirit guides I refer to are purportedly the discarnate spirits who have taken earthy mediums in trance and spoken with their mouths. Of course the mediums may have been fakes, or as some would have it, they might have been possessed by demons. But I could feel psychic energy in their presence myself, and it was uplifting.
I think I would have known if I was in the presence of evil.

Hi Dajjal Thank you so much for sharing and describing in clear detail.
I think I am called to be a bridge between these cultural beliefs.
I can focus on points of agreement between what you describe
and what traditional Christians are taught is going on using the Bible.

If we stick to where we agree, then we can still bring peace
and not act in ways that bring disharmony, ruin relations, and cause harm on any level.

I believe this is achieved through forgiveness and inclusion, then all the corrections needed will follow naturally.

I believe a major lesson our souls need to learn is to break the cycle
of rejection and division caused by fear and unforgiveness and especially
projection of judgment, punishment and retribution out of ill will.

I see this as a real challenge here, as I am probably one of the more open and tolerant you can get
and still connect with Christians using common agreement in the Bible so we stay aligned on truth,
while Parture is the opposite and one of the most intolerant I have seen yet he may
still respond to rebuke in the Bible to stay on the same page using that as the common standard to check against.

This may not work too well, but i will say this:
given our extreme differences in range of beliefs, ANYTHING we actually agree upon as true and universal
to all our systems, must be really special and can help others to focus on that central connection.
=================
Some points I see

1. Since we are trying to share with traditional Christians
then the point of souls being unique, and having LIFE and value
independent of physical body is important, and affirms LIFE
and not taking this soul for granted like a material thing that is expendable.

I think the concept of soul is universal, but the other "spirit guides" needs
to be more clearly ANGELS and not DEMONS if Christians are going to follow that.

2. Extreme literalists like Parture may never accept ANYTHING you or I say,
once we get pegged as false teachers who are rebelling or rejecting against Christ and Truth.

That is why it is important to connect as 'neighbors in Christ' so Christians can
know they are talking with someone who is checking truth and spirit against
the truth in the Bible and sticking to where these agree before they can confirm it is valid.

3. May I ask if you have studied the process of identifying and removing demons, curses or other
occult blockages, so people's minds and bodies are free to heal naturally?

I believe this is one area where SCIENCE can prove there is a quantifiable
and observable process going on, that everyone can use as a common frame of reference,
regardless of our spiritual beliefs or background.

Dajjal have you studied anything to do with demons or the difference
between dark energy/forces and light forces, and why they clash?

Thank you again for sharing and I hope we can explore together,
especially the parts that may be proven by science so everyone can understand regardless of our backgrounds and beliefs.

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[Parture]

I have been taught by spirit teachers that we are immortal spirits that were breathed out of God and sealed in a bubble of energy called the soul, or causal body. Our soul is God within God but it is cut off from the divine source and has to find its own way back to self realisation. This entails descending into incarnation in the physical body where we can gain experience through actions of our own with free will. We do not remember our original spiritual status and learn through trial and error. Actions cause reactions, and we answer for all of it through karma. There are angels of karma who oversee the evolution of the human family by guiding us to incarnate in a life that will further our growth. They are unaffected by our sufferings as they are only concerned with what is good for our souls. We ourselves on this planet have all had many lives before because we are too far along the path of evolution to be new souls. We are responsible for our own actions and not the actions of our ancestors, unless we were incarnated at that time.

I believe we incarnate thousands of times in a cycle of evolution that ultimately leads back to God consciousness. We do this on many different planets in the cycle of our lives. When we finally complete our cycle of lives we continue to grow in higher realms, and we remember all our past lives at that time. Or anyway, that is what the spirit guides I have listened to have said. As I have said we do not come back as animals, we evolve as a spiritual family of humans.

Spirit guides I refer to are purportedly the discarnate spirits who have taken earthy mediums in trance and spoken with their mouths. Of course the mediums may have been fakes, or as some would have it, they might have been possessed by demons. But I could feel psychic energy in their presence myself, and it was uplifting.
I think I would have known if I was in the presence of evil.

Hi Dajjal Thank you so much for sharing and describing in clear detail.
I think I am called to be a bridge between these cultural beliefs.
I can focus on points of agreement between what you describe
and what traditional Christians are taught is going on using the Bible.

If we stick to where we agree, then we can still bring peace
and not act in ways that bring disharmony, ruin relations, and cause harm on any level.

I believe this is achieved through forgiveness and inclusion, then all the corrections needed will follow naturally.

I believe a major lesson our souls need to learn is to break the cycle
of rejection and division caused by fear and unforgiveness and especially
projection of judgment, punishment and retribution out of ill will.

I see this as a real challenge here, as I am probably one of the more open and tolerant you can get
and still connect with Christians using common agreement in the Bible so we stay aligned on truth,
while Parture is the opposite and one of the most intolerant I have seen yet he may
still respond to rebuke in the Bible to stay on the same page using that as the common standard to check against.

This may not work too well, but i will say this:
given our extreme differences in range of beliefs, ANYTHING we actually agree upon as true and universal
to all our systems, must be really special and can help others to focus on that central connection.
=================
Some points I see

1. Since we are trying to share with traditional Christians
then the point of souls being unique, and having LIFE and value
independent of physical body is important, and affirms LIFE
and not taking this soul for granted like a material thing that is expendable.

I think the concept of soul is universal, but the other "spirit guides" needs
to be more clearly ANGELS and not DEMONS if Christians are going to follow that.

2. Extreme literalists like Parture may never accept ANYTHING you or I say,
once we get pegged as false teachers who are rebelling or rejecting against Christ and Truth.

That is why it is important to connect as 'neighbors in Christ' so Christians can
know they are talking with someone who is checking truth and spirit against
the truth in the Bible and sticking to where these agree before they can confirm it is valid.

3. May I ask if you have studied the process of identifying and removing demons, curses or other
occult blockages, so people's minds and bodies are free to heal naturally?

I believe this is one area where SCIENCE can prove there is a quantifiable
and observable process going on, that everyone can use as a common frame of reference,
regardless of our spiritual beliefs or background.

Dajjal have you studied anything to do with demons or the difference
between dark energy/forces and light forces, and why they clash?

Thank you again for sharing and I hope we can explore together,
especially the parts that may be proven by science so everyone can understand regardless of our backgrounds and beliefs.

Yours truly,
Emily

All I know about Emily is she is going to Hell because she is a universalist.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Parture I will ask GISMYS and Jeremiah to join this conversation.
I believe you and they may be called to address Pharisees and Elders of
groups, cults and denominations who are teaching divisive things.

I support you in addressing the Elders and HEADS of these groups you are so opposed to.

You keep railing against Universalists and Calvinists,
even though I made it clear I do not believe in what
Universalists teach that either rejects Christ/God or appears to.

If it causes division and isn't in the Bible, it isn't necessary to cause this division,
so I agreed to drop it.

If you continue to harp on it then your issue is with Universalists,
so I support you in addressing them.

I believe this is good for unifying the body of Christ to resolve all these conflicts.
So I hope GISMYS and JEREMIAH will join in support of you to
rebuke and correct the Calvinists, Universalists and anyone else teaching things in erroneous,
wrongful, divisive or deceitful manner.

I am happy to help you set that up for you to join in correcting
the heads of all these groups.

Thank you Parture!

The only thing I really have to say in your case is that you are going to Hell because you are a universalist.

Well, since you keep saying it's because I am teaching things "not in the Bible,"
show me where in the Bible it says "universalists" are going to hell.

Otherwise you are also teaching things not literally stated in the Bible either.

Please remove the beam from your own eye
and then you can better help your neighbors.

BTW I looked up both Universalists and Christian Universalists
so there are different types.

I may be more LIKE the Christian Universalists,
but at this point I believe I am a
Constitutionalist Christian.

I believe the natural laws represented by Constitutional principles
apply to all people and that is what I live by and enforce.

Constitutional laws are specific and have a whole lot of
political religion attached to them now.

But the pure natural laws are still universal to all humanity.
I believe Christ Jesus fulfills those natural laws as Restorative Justice.

Parture if you do not believe in invoking Christ Jesus authority
to bring correction and healing by the Holy Spirit,
then you may be even more "secular gentile" than I am.

You don't seem to follow the Bible about removing the beam
from your own eye before helping a neighbor remove a splinter,
and you don't seem to believe in
"forgiving trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

So maybe teddyearp and ninja007 JakeStarkey and others are right
that you are not Christian and you reject Christ and God while
proclaiming to enforce the laws, as Antichrist and False Prophet seek to do.

Parture again I apologize if I mistook you as a Christian believer
and held you to those Biblical standards, which I thought you committed to live by,
if your only point is to abuse religion to condemn people to hell.

If so, if you do not really believe in the power of divine forgiveness
and grace in Christ Jesus to make all things right and new,
I will apologize to the others who I misrepresented this to
and told them that you were a witness if I was mistaken.

I really thought your concern was real, but you don't seem to respond.

Thank you anyway and sorry I mistook you for a real believer
who was really trying to correct things.

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25.46).

Since there is no sin the New City and you carry around with you the sin of universalism, you will go to everlasting punishment to Hell forever.

Hi Parture since we struck out with Universal approaches
let's start with yours. Can you explain your Arminian views?
I will ask GISMYS and Jeremiah to help review if these are Biblical.

Thanks Parture let's start with YOUR teachings since you believe THOSE are correct.
Let's not spread any more teachings that you agree are false because that isn't teaching what is true.
-------------
Dear GISMYS and Jeremiah
Do you know anything about Arminians and Calvinists?

I started this thread and got stuck with Parture.
Can you help me talk with him or check if what he believes as an Arminian is Christian?

He won't answer questions from me
so maybe he will answer you if you are literal to the Bible.

If he turns out not to understand can you please witness to him so he may be saved
Thank you very much

Since the Bible is clear universalism is a heresy and nobody believes in universalism in heaven, then you can't go to heaven. You have to remain in Hell for eternity. Seems reasonable.

Thank you Parture
1. Where does is say "universalism" literally? I already agreed to drop it,
and ask you to do the same since this is not in the Bible.
2. I already confirmed with you I agree with all the passages you cited
in the Bible, so I do not reject what the Bible says.
I believe all those things still are true, and it is still possible for
God to save all souls by making sure only the devil beast false prophet go there
but all souls are removed from the evil and only the evil goes there. so yes,
all "these who do not repent" do go to hell because God can eventually
reach all those and make sure they take the right steps NOT to go there.
It still remains that those who don't WILL go there, whether those numbers
of people are 1, 2, 0 or whatever there are.

Parture if you believe in Arminian teachings, what does that say about God
already determining which souls WILL BE saved or not, or is that Calvinism?

Dajjal brings up a point that maybe the souls go through things
but the spirit is still separate from the soul and that spirit is pure like God so that doesn't go through hell.

I've never heard of soul used separately from the spirit, but this might explain how both things are true. Not sure, I would have to ask God how this works.

 

[Parture]

The only thing I really have to say in your case is that you are going to Hell because you are a universalist.

Well, since you keep saying it's because I am teaching things "not in the Bible,"
show me where in the Bible it says "universalists" are going to hell.

Otherwise you are also teaching things not literally stated in the Bible either.

Please remove the beam from your own eye
and then you can better help your neighbors.

BTW I looked up both Universalists and Christian Universalists
so there are different types.

I may be more LIKE the Christian Universalists,
but at this point I believe I am a
Constitutionalist Christian.

I believe the natural laws represented by Constitutional principles
apply to all people and that is what I live by and enforce.

Constitutional laws are specific and have a whole lot of
political religion attached to them now.

But the pure natural laws are still universal to all humanity.
I believe Christ Jesus fulfills those natural laws as Restorative Justice.

Parture if you do not believe in invoking Christ Jesus authority
to bring correction and healing by the Holy Spirit,
then you may be even more "secular gentile" than I am.

You don't seem to follow the Bible about removing the beam
from your own eye before helping a neighbor remove a splinter,
and you don't seem to believe in
"forgiving trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

So maybe teddyearp and ninja007 JakeStarkey and others are right
that you are not Christian and you reject Christ and God while
proclaiming to enforce the laws, as Antichrist and False Prophet seek to do.

Parture again I apologize if I mistook you as a Christian believer
and held you to those Biblical standards, which I thought you committed to live by,
if your only point is to abuse religion to condemn people to hell.

If so, if you do not really believe in the power of divine forgiveness
and grace in Christ Jesus to make all things right and new,
I will apologize to the others who I misrepresented this to
and told them that you were a witness if I was mistaken.

I really thought your concern was real, but you don't seem to respond.

Thank you anyway and sorry I mistook you for a real believer
who was really trying to correct things.

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25.46).

Since there is no sin the New City and you carry around with you the sin of universalism, you will go to everlasting punishment to Hell forever.

Hi Parture since we struck out with Universal approaches
let's start with yours. Can you explain your Arminian views?
I will ask GISMYS and Jeremiah to help review if these are Biblical.

Thanks Parture let's start with YOUR teachings since you believe THOSE are correct.
Let's not spread any more teachings that you agree are false because that isn't teaching what is true.
-------------
Dear GISMYS and Jeremiah
Do you know anything about Arminians and Calvinists?

I started this thread and got stuck with Parture.
Can you help me talk with him or check if what he believes as an Arminian is Christian?

He won't answer questions from me
so maybe he will answer you if you are literal to the Bible.

If he turns out not to understand can you please witness to him so he may be saved
Thank you very much

Since the Bible is clear universalism is a heresy and nobody believes in universalism in heaven, then you can't go to heaven. You have to remain in Hell for eternity. Seems reasonable.

Thank you Parture
1. Where does is say "universalism" literally? I already agreed to drop it,
and ask you to do the same since this is not in the Bible.
2. I already confirmed with you I agree with all the passages you cited
in the Bible, so I do not reject what the Bible says.
I believe all those things still are true, and it is still possible for
God to save all souls by making sure only the devil beast false prophet go there
but all souls are removed from the evil and only the evil goes there.

Dajjal brings up a point that maybe the souls go through things
but the spirit is still separate from the soul and that spirit is pure like God so that doesn't go through hell.

I've never heard of soul used separately from the spirit, but this might explain how both things are true.
Not sure, I would have to ask God how this works.

Do you reject the Trinity because that word is not the Bible?

Hence, since the Bible says there are those who go to Hell for eternity and you say not, that shows you worship Satan.

 

[emilynghiem]

Well, since you keep saying it's because I am teaching things "not in the Bible,"
show me where in the Bible it says "universalists" are going to hell.

Otherwise you are also teaching things not literally stated in the Bible either.

Please remove the beam from your own eye
and then you can better help your neighbors.

BTW I looked up both Universalists and Christian Universalists
so there are different types.

I may be more LIKE the Christian Universalists,
but at this point I believe I am a
Constitutionalist Christian.

I believe the natural laws represented by Constitutional principles
apply to all people and that is what I live by and enforce.

Constitutional laws are specific and have a whole lot of
political religion attached to them now.

But the pure natural laws are still universal to all humanity.
I believe Christ Jesus fulfills those natural laws as Restorative Justice.

Parture if you do not believe in invoking Christ Jesus authority
to bring correction and healing by the Holy Spirit,
then you may be even more "secular gentile" than I am.

You don't seem to follow the Bible about removing the beam
from your own eye before helping a neighbor remove a splinter,
and you don't seem to believe in
"forgiving trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

So maybe teddyearp and ninja007 JakeStarkey and others are right
that you are not Christian and you reject Christ and God while
proclaiming to enforce the laws, as Antichrist and False Prophet seek to do.

Parture again I apologize if I mistook you as a Christian believer
and held you to those Biblical standards, which I thought you committed to live by,
if your only point is to abuse religion to condemn people to hell.

If so, if you do not really believe in the power of divine forgiveness
and grace in Christ Jesus to make all things right and new,
I will apologize to the others who I misrepresented this to
and told them that you were a witness if I was mistaken.

I really thought your concern was real, but you don't seem to respond.

Thank you anyway and sorry I mistook you for a real believer
who was really trying to correct things.

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25.46).

Since there is no sin the New City and you carry around with you the sin of universalism, you will go to everlasting punishment to Hell forever.

Hi Parture since we struck out with Universal approaches
let's start with yours. Can you explain your Arminian views?
I will ask GISMYS and Jeremiah to help review if these are Biblical.

Thanks Parture let's start with YOUR teachings since you believe THOSE are correct.
Let's not spread any more teachings that you agree are false because that isn't teaching what is true.
-------------
Dear GISMYS and Jeremiah
Do you know anything about Arminians and Calvinists?

I started this thread and got stuck with Parture.
Can you help me talk with him or check if what he believes as an Arminian is Christian?

He won't answer questions from me
so maybe he will answer you if you are literal to the Bible.

If he turns out not to understand can you please witness to him so he may be saved
Thank you very much

Since the Bible is clear universalism is a heresy and nobody believes in universalism in heaven, then you can't go to heaven. You have to remain in Hell for eternity. Seems reasonable.

Thank you Parture
1. Where does is say "universalism" literally? I already agreed to drop it,
and ask you to do the same since this is not in the Bible.
2. I already confirmed with you I agree with all the passages you cited
in the Bible, so I do not reject what the Bible says.
I believe all those things still are true, and it is still possible for
God to save all souls by making sure only the devil beast false prophet go there
but all souls are removed from the evil and only the evil goes there.

Dajjal brings up a point that maybe the souls go through things
but the spirit is still separate from the soul and that spirit is pure like God so that doesn't go through hell.

I've never heard of soul used separately from the spirit, but this might explain how both things are true.
Not sure, I would have to ask God how this works.

Do you reject the Trinity because that word is not the Bible?

Hence, since the Bible says there are those who go to Hell for eternity and you say not, that shows you worship Satan.

A. With the Trinity, if people cannot use that word, then I use what we agree to use in the
Bible such as God/Christ/HolySpirit or Father/Son/Holyspirit

I do not let this become a stumbling block or condition on faith.

If someone uses the term LIFE or NATURE or UNIVERSE for "God" and do not
personify the creator/creation as GOD but they "mean the same thing"
I will try to explain the same truths using THEIR terms but without changing the truth.
We are merely changing the terms if they need to hear the word "universe" instead of "creation" in order to say the same things where they can understand it applies to them.

If people can understand Jesus as "Justice" we can talk about that in order
to explain how it works, and how all people can receive "Justice" by God's "Mercy."

B. I agree that THOSE who do those things will go through that, as described in the Bible.

What I am saying is that does not preclude God or Christ from reaching to all souls
and helping them to repent/forgive and do all the steps to NOT go through that.

I agree with you when you focus on "Devil/beast/falseprophet
thrown into the lake of fire."

If you and I agree on that scripture, let's just teach that.
I think that covers anything that would otherwise prevent any soul
from receiving Christ and going through steps of salvation.

As long as the "influence of the devil/beast/falseprophet" are TAKEN OUT
then those are the influences that cause people to fall away.
Getting rid of these means there is no more blocks to salvation in Christ
that are caused by them.

So that is my concern, regardless.

 

[Parture]

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25.46).

Since there is no sin the New City and you carry around with you the sin of universalism, you will go to everlasting punishment to Hell forever.

Hi Parture since we struck out with Universal approaches
let's start with yours. Can you explain your Arminian views?
I will ask GISMYS and Jeremiah to help review if these are Biblical.

Thanks Parture let's start with YOUR teachings since you believe THOSE are correct.
Let's not spread any more teachings that you agree are false because that isn't teaching what is true.
-------------
Dear GISMYS and Jeremiah
Do you know anything about Arminians and Calvinists?

I started this thread and got stuck with Parture.
Can you help me talk with him or check if what he believes as an Arminian is Christian?

He won't answer questions from me
so maybe he will answer you if you are literal to the Bible.

If he turns out not to understand can you please witness to him so he may be saved
Thank you very much

Since the Bible is clear universalism is a heresy and nobody believes in universalism in heaven, then you can't go to heaven. You have to remain in Hell for eternity. Seems reasonable.

Thank you Parture
1. Where does is say "universalism" literally? I already agreed to drop it,
and ask you to do the same since this is not in the Bible.
2. I already confirmed with you I agree with all the passages you cited
in the Bible, so I do not reject what the Bible says.
I believe all those things still are true, and it is still possible for
God to save all souls by making sure only the devil beast false prophet go there
but all souls are removed from the evil and only the evil goes there.

Dajjal brings up a point that maybe the souls go through things
but the spirit is still separate from the soul and that spirit is pure like God so that doesn't go through hell.

I've never heard of soul used separately from the spirit, but this might explain how both things are true.
Not sure, I would have to ask God how this works.

Do you reject the Trinity because that word is not the Bible?

Hence, since the Bible says there are those who go to Hell for eternity and you say not, that shows you worship Satan.

A. With the Trinity, if people cannot use that word, then I use what we agree to use in the
Bible such as God/Christ/HolySpirit or Father/Son/Holyspirit

I do not let this become a stumbling block or condition on faith.

B. I agree that THOSE who do those things will go through that, as described in the Bible.

What I am saying is that does not preclude God or Christ from reaching to all souls
and helping them to repent/forgive and do all the steps to NOT go through that.

I agree with you when you focus on "Devil/beast/falseprophet
thrown into the lake of fire."

If you and I agree on that scripture, let's just teach that.
I think that covers anything that would otherwise prevent any soul
from receiving Christ and going through steps of salvation.

As long as the "influence of the devil/beast/falseprophet" are TAKEN OUT
then those are the influences that cause people to fall away.
Getting rid of these means there is no more blocks to salvation in Christ
that are caused by them.

So that is my concern, regardless.

Therefore, you are going to Hell because universalism is a heresy. You are going to be in Hell for eternity.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Parture since we struck out with Universal approaches
let's start with yours. Can you explain your Arminian views?
I will ask GISMYS and Jeremiah to help review if these are Biblical.

Thanks Parture let's start with YOUR teachings since you believe THOSE are correct.
Let's not spread any more teachings that you agree are false because that isn't teaching what is true.
-------------
Dear GISMYS and Jeremiah
Do you know anything about Arminians and Calvinists?

I started this thread and got stuck with Parture.
Can you help me talk with him or check if what he believes as an Arminian is Christian?

He won't answer questions from me
so maybe he will answer you if you are literal to the Bible.

If he turns out not to understand can you please witness to him so he may be saved
Thank you very much

Since the Bible is clear universalism is a heresy and nobody believes in universalism in heaven, then you can't go to heaven. You have to remain in Hell for eternity. Seems reasonable.

Thank you Parture
1. Where does is say "universalism" literally? I already agreed to drop it,
and ask you to do the same since this is not in the Bible.
2. I already confirmed with you I agree with all the passages you cited
in the Bible, so I do not reject what the Bible says.
I believe all those things still are true, and it is still possible for
God to save all souls by making sure only the devil beast false prophet go there
but all souls are removed from the evil and only the evil goes there.

Dajjal brings up a point that maybe the souls go through things
but the spirit is still separate from the soul and that spirit is pure like God so that doesn't go through hell.

I've never heard of soul used separately from the spirit, but this might explain how both things are true.
Not sure, I would have to ask God how this works.

Do you reject the Trinity because that word is not the Bible?

Hence, since the Bible says there are those who go to Hell for eternity and you say not, that shows you worship Satan.

A. With the Trinity, if people cannot use that word, then I use what we agree to use in the
Bible such as God/Christ/HolySpirit or Father/Son/Holyspirit

I do not let this become a stumbling block or condition on faith.

B. I agree that THOSE who do those things will go through that, as described in the Bible.

What I am saying is that does not preclude God or Christ from reaching to all souls
and helping them to repent/forgive and do all the steps to NOT go through that.

I agree with you when you focus on "Devil/beast/falseprophet
thrown into the lake of fire."

If you and I agree on that scripture, let's just teach that.
I think that covers anything that would otherwise prevent any soul
from receiving Christ and going through steps of salvation.

As long as the "influence of the devil/beast/falseprophet" are TAKEN OUT
then those are the influences that cause people to fall away.
Getting rid of these means there is no more blocks to salvation in Christ
that are caused by them.

So that is my concern, regardless.

Therefore, you are going to Hell because universalism is a heresy. You are going to be in Hell for eternity.

Dear Parture when I looked up universalism I agree the ways are wrong that conflict with Christ.
I already confirmed several times that this is not what I believe, so I agreed not to use this confusing term.

If you have an issue with that, and you want to see UNIVERSALISTS
teachers all come forward and change the definition so it is corrected and matches the Bible,
that's fine.

I support you in rebuking these people.

The only one I know by name is Carlton Pearson who teaches "hell does not exist"

So if you want to start with one person to rebuke,
I am happy to ask him.

I also don't agree with his teachings, so I will back you up in correcting him
that there is a hell, and the point is to avoid it, but that doesn't mean hell isn't real.

Do you want to set up a rebuke between you and him?
I will try to do that online, or you can use your own website to call him out if you want.
I will back you up.

I think this needs correction also.

 

[emilynghiem]

BTW Parture

I was looking up
* Arminian
* and found Wesleyan Arminian which is related to Methodists?
* and found this on OSAS Arminian
The Center for Theological Studies OSAS Arminians---Molinists in Disguise

If you believe in "Once Saved Always Saved"
doesn't that mean grace is not resistable but eventually overcomes
in order for even backsliding/rebellion by believers to still be saved?

How would you describe the process if someone is saved
but then they resist grace. What happens or can happen to them?

 

[Dajjal]

Emily, The spirit guides I speak of are the departed spirits of evolved souls who have come back to earth to teach us through the channel of using spiritualist mediums. There is much about it on my thread 'spiritual teachings' . As for demons I have no knowledge of such things, as the teachers I have studied under did not talk of such things.and I tend to regard them as mythology. But God allows evil as an opposing force which causes growth of the soul.
Spiritualists do practice healing which is usually laying on of the hands of the healer who is then used as a channel by spirit doctors that send down healing energy from the higher worlds.
Some spiritualist churches have been involved in scientific studies to see if spiritual healing has any effect.
I once saw a famous healer called Harry Edwards give an amazing demonstration of healing in a theatre. He seemed to have freed the joints of several sufferers of arthritis.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Parture

Here is the information to contact Bishop Carlton Pearson
who has written books on the Gospel of Inclusion,
invited to speak before atheist and gay rights organizations.

Mailing Address:

500 North Michigan Ave
Suite 600, Chicago IL 60611

Phone: 312-546-3045
Fax: 866-546-7303

Speaking Invitations: cdp@bishoppearson.com
General Info: contactus@bishoppearson.com

Contact: Michelle Rathel
Email: michelle@bishoppearson.com

If you want to ask question to be read on the air:
Bishop Carlton Pearson

Do you want to set up a formal rebuke using
the Bible live on the radio, in person, online?

Let me know how serious you are, if you really believe
Universalists need to be corrected and saved from going to hell.

If you are serious, you should address this man who has written
books and speaks on the radio regularly. That information
should be corrected if it is wrong.

Let me know if you are serious, or you don't really believe that after all.

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily, The spirit guides I speak of are the departed spirits of evolved souls who have come back to earth to teach us through the channel of using spiritualist mediums. There is much about it on my thread 'spiritual teachings' . As for demons I have no knowledge of such things, as the teachers I have studied under did not talk of such things.and I tend to regard them as mythology. But God allows evil as an opposing force which causes growth of the soul.
Spiritualists do practice healing which is usually laying on of the hands of the healer who is then used as a channel by spirit doctors that send down healing energy from the higher worlds.
Some spiritualist churches have been involved in scientific studies to see if spiritual healing has any effect.
I once saw a famous healer called Harry Edwards give an amazing demonstration of healing in a theatre. He seemed to have freed the joints of several sufferers of arthritis.

Thank Dajjal
I looked up Harry Edwards and this appears to be a naturalistic approach but the link with "spiritism"
is going to be rejected by both Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses because it does not distinguish demonic
spirits but invites them or risks inviting them.

This could be studied IN ADDITION to Christian deliverance and spiritual healing,
so it could be proven than only the Christian type works to remove the serious
Demonic and Satanic bondage in the mind and spirit.

How can this be studied fully without also studying other "control groups"

The resources I recommend for the Christian healing that I know does not invoke
loose spirits, but casts out demons and removes satanic curses or spells from occult and witchcraft
are Dr. Francis MacNutt Christian Healing Ministries - Christian Healing Ministries
Dr. Phillip Goldfedder Healing Is Yours
The reason they rely solely on prayers in Christ Jesus
is that is the only authority that can cast out the really deep rooted demons and curses.
The witchcraft/occult and other such dark practices "clash" with this healing energy so much,
it can cause disruption and even death, so that's why the Christian groups WARN AGAINST spiritism.

Technically you are supposed to pray to REMOVE any contact or influence from spiritism
before applying Christian healing prayer, or the energy can clash and cause the opposite backlash.

So I would like to see this energy and process studied,
where all this can be measured and quantified to prove how it works,
and where the conflicts cause disruptions or obstructions and healing to fail.

The dark practices are the only energy that directly conflicts with Christianity. In fact, it is dangerous, and I have seen friends suffer through terrible addictions and abuses because of this in their families.

Any other practice that involves NATURAL energy and spirit/nature is compatible.
But when you open the door to occult and manipulations, that has to be removed or it distorts and disrupts
the natural flow in life. With Dr. MacNutt's books and websites, he stresses over and over
there cannot be any "mixing" of this demonic/dark energy or magic/spiritism with Christian healing prayer or it's dangerous.

if we study this, it has to be done carefully.

There was one doctor either Larry Dorsey or Dale Matthews
who looked into cases of the Hawaiian death curse that show it wasn't just "power of suggestion"
(it even affected people who weren't aware they were targets of the curse)

They all concur that you cannot mix spiritism with Christian healing prayer or it can cause death or other disasters.
I have friends who had to give up dark magic after they suffered too many deaths and disasters around them.
It just attracts negative energy, and this is the opposite of the positive energy that heals and brings life.

I hope this is proven by science, so people can be warned NOT to play with this dark occult energy,
just like you would teach people to avoid "exposure" to radiation as causing cancer and death.

It's dangerous but the problems are "invisible" so it's hard to warn people,
and too many learn from bad experiences how dangerous and disastrous it gets.

NOTE: One of the patients in Dr. Peck's book "Glimpses of the Devil" gave up her new age
religion after he used deliverance and exorcism to get rid of her schizophrenic conditions caused by demons. I don't know if the demons were tied to her new age practice, so when she gave them up she stopped the other things. But she went into science and studied to work in medicine and lost interest in religion.

Of the people my friend Olivia has healed of demons, one was so thankful to be freed from addictions he did start his own ministry to help other people. Another was a satanic priest whose friends had all died from a curse that was causing him so much physical pain he was crippled with it and dying from inability to eat or move or anything. He was the only one who survived, and I think he committed his life to Christ to save others from the same.

But when my friend who is atheist got rid of demons this way, he still remains atheist.
He used to hate Christians but that changed, and now he tries harder to work with them even though he doesn't like all the preaching. So at least he is now more forgiving instead of being so angry and hateful as before. the rage went away when the demons stopped hijacking his mind.

And with healing homosexuality, I have seen this go both ways, where some people get rid of their homosexual or transgender attractions, and other people have come out as gay or transgender after they were healed in spirit. I think those types of cases would be good to study also as part of the healing process -- and show that some people do or don't change to be heterosexual, either way. The point is to forgive and heal, and then people make peace with God regardless.

 

[Dajjal]

Emily, I attended spiritualist churches up and down England from the late 1960s to the 1990s. I do not believe they are deluded by demons, but are guided by the spirits of the departed. I have had many evidential messages from departed relatives over the years. There is nothing to be afraid of in a spiritualist church, and in fact they call themselves Christian spiritualists.

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily, I attended spiritualist churches up and down England from the late 1960s to the 1990s. I do not believe they are deluded by demons, but are guided by the spirits of the departed. I have had many evidential messages from departed relatives over the years. There is nothing to be afraid of in a spiritualist church, and in fact they call themselves Christian spiritualists.

Yes, if this is reconciled and done in the spirit of Christ, there is no conflict.

But people like Andrea Yates report having "angels" come tell her things
that turned out to be hurtful and deadly.

So it is not wise to teach these things loosely, where other people can get in trouble
"listening to voices" and thinking they are angels.

I understand connection with soul mates and loved ones.
If there is "agreement in Christ" this assures it isn't demons pretending to be spirits or angels.

Demons would reject Christ and that's how you can tell the difference.
If you mention God and Bible and get a "negative feeling" that is likely demonic in influence.
Anything angelic would welcome reconciliation in Christ and invite not reject.

So agreement rebukes and casts out anything negative like that.
Some friends of mine even think that past life memories are from demons,
and that still ties in with karma, and makes sense that it is generational.

That is why believers rely so heavily on the Bible to "test" the spirit.
If spirits are demonic they will be hateful and rejecting.
People who are truly forgiving will be accepting and welcoming.

In general, forgiveness wards off evil or negative energy.
Anything to do with unforgiveness, rejection, fear, rebellion, etc. can invite them
and some demonic influences just LIVE OFF fear and rejection/division so they can remain stuck to the host.

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily, I attended spiritualist churches up and down England from the late 1960s to the 1990s. I do not believe they are deluded by demons, but are guided by the spirits of the departed. I have had many evidential messages from departed relatives over the years. There is nothing to be afraid of in a spiritualist church, and in fact they call themselves Christian spiritualists.

BTW I looked up Christian Spiritualism
the site I saw talked about angels and spirit helpers
but did NOT mention ANY knowledge or experience with demons.

I find that odd and hard to believe someone can know about spiritual worlds
and not know or teach the dangers of demons and occult influences.

I think this is on the side of dangerous and being "partially" informed.
This is like teaching people how to use microwave energy but not
teaching dangers of exposure to too much radiation, and what to do if that happens.

I think people should understand the risks before teaching other people to get involved in that.

Maybe the effects of "negative energy" has to be "proven by science," and then people can insist on warnings
and teaching people the DIFFERENCE between positive and negative/dangerous spirits
and "how to get rid of those" using exorcism or deliverance if you tap into one.

Sorry but from what I've seen, I think this is irresponsible to teach this
without fully complete information and warning. And also instructions what
to do if you get into trouble with negative spirits.

I've had to counsel so many friends, and even strangers online asking for help after
something went wrong, to go get help with spiritual healing and deliverance
that I think this should be required knowledge if you are going to teach people to contact spirits.
Too many friends had to learn the hard way, and it took years to get over the damage.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Yes, I had to drop the term Universal Salvation because that's already been taken and ruined to mean something else.

I mean that all souls will go through the process of Salvation as in the Bible.

you mean all souls except those that refuse to accept it.....

And what I emphasize is I believe that ALL souls will come to accept it.

so, for clarification you don't believe that all paths lead to salvation, you believe that all people will eventually take the one path......

 

[PostmodernProph]

So if Buddhist meditation is used CORRECTLY it helps with the path.

well no....one can follow the path of Buddhism all day long and never come anywhere near Christ........

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes, I had to drop the term Universal Salvation because that's already been taken and ruined to mean something else.

I mean that all souls will go through the process of Salvation as in the Bible.

you mean all souls except those that refuse to accept it.....

And what I emphasize is I believe that ALL souls will come to accept it.

so, for clarification you don't believe that all paths lead to salvation, you believe that all people will eventually take the one path......

I'm saying both.

For some people, sure, they may see it as dropping their old path
and "changing to a different path"

For others when they take that "one path"
it IS the fulfillment of the true path they were always on
and anything else was part of their learning or their process along that path.

Some report that their new life is completely different
and nothing like their old ways which are dead.

I'm still saying that this IS the next stage in their path in life.
So all paths lead there.

I am open to all these ways of describing it, yours, too if that is what your path is like.
To me, you are still the same person so it is still your path in life,
even if you describe it as totally changing directions. I am saying that total change
is part of your path in life.