Arizona Senate Passes Bill Allowing Business Owners To Refuse Service To Gays

[Antares]

I admire your psychic guesses even though you are far off.
But I will give you another shot before you put up your crystal ball.
I will be at Calder track in a few weeks. How do you like Go Bananas' chances?

Well see there it is....

You gamble, I don't....you make shit up as you go and so far you pretty much suck at it.

You don't get to both denigrate AND take credit for Religions role in things.

But hey....feel free to keep pretending your nose isn't in my ass.

Have not made anything up.
Been beat up, shot at and left for dead. Crossed the lines many a times and played 4 quarters against the best.
I get to do whatever I want, take credit for what I want to.
And there is nothing you can do about it but whine like a milk weak pup.

But nothing compares to being able to pick on defenseless people like you.

So far you are not a worthy opponent kid, jus sayin.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Accommodating gay Americans – whether compelled to do so by law or not – does not constitute one to “give up his religious belief,” it’s a manifestation of ignorance and hate, not religious doctrine or dogma.

What a bunch of garbage. If his faith tells him that homosexuality is wrong, and you force him to serve homosexuals against his will; guess what you just did? Forced him to rescind his beliefs to accommodate a group of people who's lifestyle he sees as sinful. The ignorance here is you thinking this works only one way.

So an EMT can refuse to treat a gay person at an accident scene because of their religious beliefs.
We are a nation of LAWS, not of men and their various and changing like the wind religious beliefs.

Do you think EMTs haven't refused to serve gay people at accident scenes because of the danger of HIV/AIDS?

What we are supposed to be is a nation of freedom, not tyranny.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Religious beliefs supported slavery, Jim Crow and segregation.

The road to freedom is one of the great themes of American history. The story of the Underground Railroad exemplifies the profound power of that journey. Following the lead of its famed anti-slavery preacher Henry Ward Beecher, Plymouth Church played a fundamental part in New York City's underground activity.

Plymouth Church :: About Our Church -> Our History - Underground Railroad

You'll need to improve, so far you aren't up to this.

That there were Christians who opposed slavery doesn’t mitigate the fact that religious beliefs indeed supported slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation.

Then as today we see Christians who oppose civil rights for gay Americans predicated on subjective religious dogma, and Christians who believe that to discriminate against gay Americans is wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Religious beliefs supported slavery, Jim Crow and segregation.

Government supported all of those things, yet you love the government.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Religious beliefs supported slavery, Jim Crow and segregation.

The road to freedom is one of the great themes of American history. The story of the Underground Railroad exemplifies the profound power of that journey. Following the lead of its famed anti-slavery preacher Henry Ward Beecher, Plymouth Church played a fundamental part in New York City's underground activity.

Plymouth Church :: About Our Church -> Our History - Underground Railroad

You'll need to improve, so far you aren't up to this.

My family, the Walkers and Terhunes of Clintondale NY were Quakers and they led hundreds of southern slaves to Canada through the Underground RR. Google Clintondale NY Friends Meeting and see their names. I am a direct descendant of them as my mother was a Walker and her mother was a Terhune.
You need to catch up as life is like a dog sled team.
If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes.

I might be taking after you and talking out my ass, but weren't Quakers Christians? Didn't they justify the entire Underground Railroad on their religious beliefs?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Public accommodation should not be infringed on by anyone's religious belief. The former is public, the latter is private.

Churches are public.

No, they are Private, and protected, for the most part.

Tell that to Ocean Grove, I am sure they will feel so much better about losing the lawsuit knowing that you are an idiot.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Easy answer. How you live your faith is mostly a private matter. How you run your business is mostly a public one, when you serve the public that is. You don't have to give up anything more than you have to to work for someone else. If the boss says stop preaching, it's stop and compromise or hit the road. We can only allow for so much faith when the goal is business.

If you work in my Agnostic Bookstore and I tell you to take the cross off, you can do it or you can vote with your feet. I'm not a church, I'm a business.

Do you expect me to believe you are that stupid?

There's nothing stupid about it. That's how it works.

Still trying to get me to believe that you are so stupid you can't post even though you actually posted?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A little clarification here, yes any business can refuse service to any person. If they don't offer the product, they have a scheduling conflict, if the customer is rude and disruptive, etc...

However in Arizona it's the legislature - not the court - under it's 10th Amendment powers to regulate business within the State that says a business of Public Accommodation CANNOT refuse business based on Race, Color, National Origin/Ancestry, Sex, Religion/Creed, or Physical/Mental disability.

If a black man walks into a kosher deli and orders a ham sandwich - the black man can be refused because the deli does not serve ham.

On the other hand if the deli does service ham (they are non-kosher) and refuses to serve the black person because they are black - that violates the State law.

Get it?


(BTW - Public Accommodation laws have been upheld by the court, multple states and at the Federal level going back to Heartland of Atlanta Motel v. United States.


>>>>

Putting all of the legality aside for a moment, let me ask you an honest question:

Should a man give up his religious beliefs to a) run a business and b) adhere to public accommodation laws?

If his religious beliefs are contrary to the law of the land that he chooses to live in and open his business in, then he should consider another line of work. If he cannot or will not obey the law of the land then he had better expect to suffer the consequences.

This is a relatively "free country". No one is forcing him to live here. If he can't obey the laws then he is free to leave. It is his choice.

Would you support a law that required a steakhouse restaurants to carry tofu steaks and burgers in case a Hindu was so idiotic that he insisted on eating there? What about forcing a Jewish caterer to cater a Nazi themed wedding?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Agenda, and it is forced acceptance.

Cry me a river. That's what they said about letting the drakies into the white schools. You'll survive.

That was the ******* government, idiot.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Do you expect me to believe you are that stupid?

There's nothing stupid about it. That's how it works.

Still trying to get me to believe that you are so stupid you can't post even though you actually posted?

I can't fix your inability to understand American law.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Agenda, and it is forced acceptance.

Cry me a river. That's what they said about letting the drakies into the white schools. You'll survive.

That was the ******* government, idiot.

Yep. The same government that keeps discovering that gays have rights.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, they are Private, and protected, for the most part.

I would love for churches to be public non-exempt entities if they are going to engage in politics. But they are not and they won't.

There you go talking out your ass again. The IRS carefully monitors churches, and denies them the right to free speech, just to be sure jerkwads, like you, get their swish about keeping churches out of politics.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I admire your psychic guesses even though you are far off.
But I will give you another shot before you put up your crystal ball.
I will be at Calder track in a few weeks. How do you like Go Bananas' chances?

Well see there it is....

You gamble, I don't....you make shit up as you go and so far you pretty much suck at it.

You don't get to both denigrate AND take credit for Religions role in things.

But hey....feel free to keep pretending your nose isn't in my ass.

Have not made anything up.
Been beat up, shot at and left for dead. Crossed the lines many a times and played 4 quarters against the best.
I get to do whatever I want, take credit for what I want to.
And there is nothing you can do about it but whine like a milk weak pup.

But nothing compares to being able to pick on defenseless people like you.

You were beat up and shot for working the underground railroad?

Why don't I believe that?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Religious beliefs supported slavery, Jim Crow and segregation.

The road to freedom is one of the great themes of American history. The story of the Underground Railroad exemplifies the profound power of that journey. Following the lead of its famed anti-slavery preacher Henry Ward Beecher, Plymouth Church played a fundamental part in New York City's underground activity.

Plymouth Church :: About Our Church -> Our History - Underground Railroad

You'll need to improve, so far you aren't up to this.

That there were Christians who opposed slavery doesn’t mitigate the fact that religious beliefs indeed supported slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation.

Then as today we see Christians who oppose civil rights for gay Americans predicated on subjective religious dogma, and Christians who believe that to discriminate against gay Americans is wrong.

Yet, for some obscure reason, you think that the fact that the government not only supported all of those things, but actually forced people to participate, it completely irrelevant.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There's nothing stupid about it. That's how it works.

Still trying to get me to believe that you are so stupid you can't post even though you actually posted?

I can't fix your inability to understand American law.

I understand the law a lot better than you, which is why I know you are full of shit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Cry me a river. That's what they said about letting the drakies into the white schools. You'll survive.

That was the ******* government, idiot.

Yep. The same government that keeps discovering that gays have rights.

Believe it or not, everyone else does to. And, believe it or not, not doing business with someone is not evil.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Still trying to get me to believe that you are so stupid you can't post even though you actually posted?

I can't fix your inability to understand American law.

I understand the law a lot better than you, which is why I know you are full of shit.

I'm sure you wish that were true, but it isn't.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Putting all of the legality aside for a moment, let me ask you an honest question:

Should a man give up his religious beliefs to a) run a business and b) adhere to public accommodation laws?

Public accommodation should not be infringed on by anyone's religious belief. The former is public, the latter is private.

Churches are public.

Bang!

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Public accommodation should not be infringed on by anyone's religious belief. The former is public, the latter is private.

Churches are public.

Bang!

Please tell me that you don't believe a church is Public? Some are open to the public but they are entirely private.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Churches are public.

Bang!

Please tell me that you don't believe a church is Public? Some are open to the public but they are entirely private.

I do. How else do we get members? Through a secret underground order? We conduct outreach. We witness to people, spread the gospel. Do you have any idea how Churches operate? Do you realize how dumb you sounded just now? Being the Christian that I am, I think I know more about how a Church works than you.