Arizona Senate Passes Bill Allowing Business Owners To Refuse Service To Gays

[Gadawg73]

Learn the difference between "discriminated against because I'm a woman" and "discriminated against because I like to **** women".

I applied to be a towel attendant at a local spa in the women's locker room. They turned me down because I am a man.

Should I be outraged?

If you want to be then be outraged.
Does not mean you have any legal standing.

 

[Gadawg73]

Sorry folks, what it boils down with most of you is that you do not like gay folks having the same rights as straight folks.
You believe homosexuality is wrong and those people are perverts.

What I believe or you believe or Joe Blow believes is irrelevant.. the freedom for each of us to believe it, act upon it, and not be forced into participating in or condoning being a part of it is the issue... and that freedom should not be squashed by authoritarian overreaching government

Tell us how you are "forced into participating in or condoning being part of it".
No one forces you to do a damn thing.
And the "well, they force me to accept it" is a lame ass excuse all as no one forces you to do a damn thing.
Gay marriage affects you IN NO WAY.
And if it does bother you then get the hell over it. It is none of your business as no one forces you to do a damn thing.

 

[Gadawg73]

What I believe or you believe or Joe Blow believes is irrelevant.. the freedom for each of us to believe it, act upon it, and not be forced into participating in or condoning being a part of it is the issue... and that freedom should not be squashed by authoritarian overreaching government

So if I don't want to serve blacks, I can post a sign in the window saying: "We don't serve Blacks"? Or "Blacks must sit in the back of the restaurant"?

Ahhh.. the predictable redirect

Being black is not a choice, action, behavior, or event as a result of such things..

You having a 'gay wedding is a chosen action and particular to a behavior you wish to participate in

You do not get to force others to be a part of it in a free society

Baking a cake is not being forced to participate in a gay wedding.
And as far as the AZ law guess what?
Brewer said "not one case of someone that has had their religious freedom denied in AZ has been found."
Time to put up some evidence as NO ONE has had their religious freedom denied and selling a cake to a gay couple does not constitute being denied their religious freedom.
The reality is are we going to allow such a lame excuse for "religious freedom" to stretch to someone does not want to sell a damn cake?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Learn the difference between "discriminated against because I'm a woman" and "discriminated against because I like to **** women".

I applied to be a towel attendant at a local spa in the women's locker room. They turned me down because I am a man.

Should I be outraged?

No, but I'll bet you were disappointed.

 

[Iceweasel]

Wow. Just keep saying the same godamn thing and it becomes true, huh? There ARE examples where gays have piled on if you did not provide a service against your wishes. One I know of happened 10+ years ago in Seattle, long before gay marriage existed here. It could be that they were trying to head it off at the pass since these things have happened. Yes, you are participating in it if you are printing homosexual wedding invitations, cakes, posters, whatever.

It's time we take the country back from the tyranical left.

 

[Gadawg73]

Wow. Just keep saying the same godamn thing and it becomes true, huh? There ARE examples where gays have piled on if you did not provide a service against your wishes. One I know of happened 10+ years ago in Seattle, long before gay marriage existed here. It could be that they were trying to head it off at the pass since these things have happened. Yes, you are participating in it if you are printing homosexual wedding invitations, cakes, posters, whatever.

It's time we take the country back from the tyranical left.

So if a person denied service to someone because they drank beer you would stand by that?
Fact is the ONLY sin you good folks condemn and support not giving service to people IS BEING HOMOSEXUAL.
The dude would bake a cake for an ex con getting married but not a gay person.
Don't you feel just a little bit silly?

 

[Gadawg73]

Where are all these people denied their religious freedom?
They do not exist. Tens of millions of folks in those states and we have ONE BAKER with a claim.

 

[Gadawg73]

How is baking a cake for a wedding against someone's religion?

How is government using guns to force someone to bake a cake something that could be done in a free country?

Speaking of guns someone that goes by the 10 Commandments where one is "Thou shall Not Kill" can claim it is against their "religious freedom" to serve people carrying guns.
Don't you feel just a little bit silly defending this vague and ridiculous law that assumes there are people out there having their "religious freedom" denied when in fact THEY AREN'T?

A kid was rude to his parents in the fast food restaurant so they deny service to the kid. Religious freedom.

Again, amazing educated folks buy into this nonsense.

 

[Gadawg73]

No Republican ANYWHERE will sign any of these vague and absurd laws into law.
Because all they amount to are pandering to the kooky religious right that believe this crap and hate gay folks.
Sports fans, the laws are so poorly written and vague no one with an ounce of sense supports them.

 

[Toro]

Wow. Just keep saying the same godamn thing and it becomes true, huh? There ARE examples where gays have piled on if you did not provide a service against your wishes. One I know of happened 10+ years ago in Seattle, long before gay marriage existed here. It could be that they were trying to head it off at the pass since these things have happened. Yes, you are participating in it if you are printing homosexual wedding invitations, cakes, posters, whatever.

It's time we take the country back from the tyranical left.

So if a person denied service to someone because they drank beer you would stand by that?
Fact is the ONLY sin you good folks condemn and support not giving service to people IS BEING HOMOSEXUAL.
The dude would bake a cake for an ex con getting married but not a gay person.
Don't you feel just a little bit silly?

Maybe we should be able to discriminate against those who take the Lord's name in vain, covet thy neighbor's ass, disrespect their parents, etc.

 

[dblack]

How is baking a cake for a wedding against someone's religion?

How is government using guns to force someone to bake a cake something that could be done in a free country?

Speaking of guns someone that goes by the 10 Commandments where one is "Thou shall Not Kill" can claim it is against their "religious freedom" to serve people carrying guns.
Don't you feel just a little bit silly defending this vague and ridiculous law that assumes there are people out there having their "religious freedom" denied when in fact THEY AREN'T?

A kid was rude to his parents in the fast food restaurant so they deny service to the kid. Religious freedom.

Again, amazing educated folks buy into this nonsense.

I actually agree it's not right to grant a religious exemption to this law - but do you at least see how the overreaching legal principles behind public accommodations laws are driving this?

 

[kaz]

How is baking a cake for a wedding against someone's religion?

How is government using guns to force someone to bake a cake something that could be done in a free country?

Speaking of guns someone that goes by the 10 Commandments where one is "Thou shall Not Kill" can claim it is against their "religious freedom" to serve people carrying guns.
Don't you feel just a little bit silly defending this vague and ridiculous law that assumes there are people out there having their "religious freedom" denied when in fact THEY AREN'T?

A kid was rude to his parents in the fast food restaurant so they deny service to the kid. Religious freedom.

Again, amazing educated folks buy into this nonsense.

Um...where did you see religion in my post exactly? No one should be forced by anyone to do business with anyone for any reason. Obviously I'm strongly pro-second amendment, but no one has the right to take a gun on someone else's private property without permission. I have no problem with a business refusing to serve someone because they have a gun. Or because they are wearing a green shirt, or for whatever other reason they chose to not do business with them.

And as I've said before, most businesses turn away almost no one. We need customers. That someone does is just an opportunity to do business with someone else.

 

[kaz]

How is government using guns to force someone to bake a cake something that could be done in a free country?

Speaking of guns someone that goes by the 10 Commandments where one is "Thou shall Not Kill" can claim it is against their "religious freedom" to serve people carrying guns.
Don't you feel just a little bit silly defending this vague and ridiculous law that assumes there are people out there having their "religious freedom" denied when in fact THEY AREN'T?

A kid was rude to his parents in the fast food restaurant so they deny service to the kid. Religious freedom.

Again, amazing educated folks buy into this nonsense.

I actually agree it's not right to grant a religious exemption to this law - but do you at least see how the overreaching legal principles behind public accommodations laws are driving this?

What does a religious exemption mean? No one should be forced by government guns to do business with anyone.

 

[dblack]

Speaking of guns someone that goes by the 10 Commandments where one is "Thou shall Not Kill" can claim it is against their "religious freedom" to serve people carrying guns.
Don't you feel just a little bit silly defending this vague and ridiculous law that assumes there are people out there having their "religious freedom" denied when in fact THEY AREN'T?

A kid was rude to his parents in the fast food restaurant so they deny service to the kid. Religious freedom.

Again, amazing educated folks buy into this nonsense.

I actually agree it's not right to grant a religious exemption to this law - but do you at least see how the overreaching legal principles behind public accommodations laws are driving this?

What does a religious exemption mean? No one should be forced by government guns to do business with anyone.

Agreed. This law let's people off the hook for a religious excuse, but nothing else. Thus, a religious exemption.

 

[deltex1]

Celebrate Gay Marriage?or Else | National Review Online

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sigh.

For the 10,000th time...none of those above are protected categories.

Sheesh. Learn the law.

The argument form the assholes is that all businesses have to serve everyone, period. If it weren't we wouldn't be having this ******* conversation because, in most of he states, sexual preference is not a protected class either.

Feel free to keep admonishing other people to learn the law you clearly lack knowledge of.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I did not bring up a law from 50 years ago. My arguments are based on current laws.

Currently, same sex marriage is illegal in most states. Want to try again?

Really? Illegal? Like, you'll get arrested if you're married? I know of a couple. Wisconsin is one. In Wisconsin you can get a fine of up to $10,000 and 9 months in jail and in Delaware it's $100 and 30 days if you're gay and get married in another state, but most states don't make it illegal to be married.

And "most" is a subjective term in that gays can marry in 17 states plus DC. That's almost half now.

No, illegal as in you don't get screwed by the government because you are married.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Make it easy...put up a sign that says: "the law requires that I serve everyone, but I really don't like (fill in the blank). You're welcome to come in and be served, but we won't like doing it".

The "fill in the blank" likely won't visit your establishment.

I have a better idea, put up a sign saying "All proceeds form any same sex marraige ceremony will be donated to the local chapter of 'Pray Away the Gay.'" That will keep all the nutcases out a lot more effectively.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I can't wait until it goes to court

Why would it go to court?

Because monkey man, discrimination is against the law.

But **** it any way. Brewer vetoed the piece-o-bill anyway.

If I as a "Small Business Owner" in Arizona, and had this hateful bill become law saw a person with a cross around the neck, I would have the right to refuse service to them based on their attire.

If I owned a resturant in Arizona and saw people praying before a meal, I could (and would) throw them out because I would have the right to refuse them because they are engaging in a practice I DO NOT BElEIVE IN.

It already went to court. 17 different states and the federal government, have the same laws on the books already, and they have all been upheld in court. Additionally, a number of other states have the exact same provisions written into their constitutions. That means that the majority of states in this country have these laws, and the result has been that no one has had a problem with them. In fact, the only people that have had a problem with this are the states where these laws do not exist.

By the ay, did you know that California is one of the states that has one of these "anti-gay" laws in place, and that it was signed by Jerry Brown just 2 years ago?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Make it easy...put up a sign that says: "the law requires that I serve everyone, but I really don't like (fill in the blank). You're welcome to come in and be served, but we won't like doing it".

The "fill in the blank" likely won't visit your establishment.

The Supreme Court of New Mexico (ruling unanimously) addressed this issue as well...


"If a commercial photography business believes that the NMHRA stifles its creativity, it can remain in business, but it can cease to offer its services to the public at large. Elane Photography’s choice to offer its services to the public is a business decision, not a decision about its freedom of speech. [...]


Elane Photography and its owners likewise retain their First Amendment rights to express their religious and political beliefs. They may, for example, post a disclaimer on their website or in their studio advertising that they oppose same-sex marriage but that they comply with applicable antidiscrimination laws."

Elane Photography v. Vanessa Willock <-- Good reading.

They were wrong, just like the Supreme Court of the United States was wrong when they legalized discrimination in 1883.