Arizona Senate Passes Bill Allowing Business Owners To Refuse Service To Gays

The bill was not signed Because Brewer said NOT ONE case of someone being denied their religious freedom has ever happened in Arizona.

Similar to passing a law against jay walking in an area where there are no roads.

The last thing Brewer/AZ cares about are teh civil rights of anyone. Read the history of her votes as well as the votes of the state legislature.

She didn't sign because AZ would have lost enormous income if she had.

Of course that was part of it but there is no evidence of what the law claimed to protect from ever happening.

I agree but religious belief has never been the real reason for discrimination against gays or women or people of color or whomever they go after next.

Most important though - it did get vetoed. Little by little, the nutters are being dragged into the 21st century and they're being forced to accept equality for all.
 
Just baffles the hell out of me.
Why would anyone oppose 2 folks of the same sex that are committed to and love each other wanting to have the joy of a wedding and get married?
Why does that offend someone when it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with them and AFFECTS THEM in NO way?
 
I have been married for almost 38 years.
How does gay marriage affect my marriage?
Or ANY heterosexual marriage?
How would it effect your marriage if three, four or a dozen people could marry? I don't know but it changes the definition of marriage and means they can't define their own culture if it's against the popular view.
 
My wife and I a years ago were at Iberostar resort near Playa del Carmen, Mexico. They perform a lot of weddings at this resort. I was drinking shots at the lobby bar and we met a lot of Brits at the bar. They said they were there for a wedding. OK. This was maybe 20 years ago. So we are at the beach one afternoon and saw NO groom. Hmmmm, and then we figured out it was 2 women. And then we thought maybe just a ceremony. And then I thought, what a weird damn thing to do, 2 gays getting married. First reaction was this is stupid, 2 gay folks getting married.
Then I studied on that for a while and could not come up WITH ONE reason why I would oppose it OTHER than I may not like it.
Then I studied on it some more and realized that it affected me and my marriage IN NO WAY.
So there was no reason for me to oppose something that had nothing to do with me, my marriage or my life.
 
I have been married for almost 38 years.
How does gay marriage affect my marriage?
Or ANY heterosexual marriage?
How would it effect your marriage if three, four or a dozen people could marry? I don't know but it changes the definition of marriage and means they can't define their own culture if it's against the popular view.

Changes the definition of marriage.
Can't define their own culture
Wow, what a horrible thing that will destroy my marriage.
Only a milk weak thin skinned sissy uses that lame excuse.
And I doubt you are that so it amazes me you offer it.
You will admit if that is all you have then you have nothing.
 
Maybe. But that proves it isn't a Constitutional isse.

No it doesn't.

The California Supreme Court struck down it's anti-miscegenation law (IIRC) in 1948, others were struck down one at a time until it finally reached the SCOTUS in Loving v. Viriginia in 1967. Such laws were struck down as being unconstitutional.

Technically, you could say that prior to 1967 anti-miscegenation laws were Constitutional. Technically you can say that anti-same-sex-civil marriage laws are currently Constitutional. That doesn't mean that once the SCOTUS accepts review that they will remain Constitutional.

20 years, or so, form California to Loving, it's only been 10 years since the Massachusetts Supreme Court struck down their anti-Marriage Equality provisions. Marriage Equality is doing quite well in the grand scheme of things. It's even started winning at the ballot during General Election Initiatives/Referendums.
I guess you don't get it. When interracial marriage prohibition was overturned, it was the law of the land. There was no need for referendums. And the fact that people can be bullied, intimidated or brainwashed doesn't mean much. It's a given.

Hog wash. Anti-miscegenation laws were not "the law of the land" at the time of the Loving decision. There were 34 states without them and 16 states with them.

There was a mix of laws at the time Loving was decided.


The fact is that homosexual marriage drastically changes what marriage is/was. The special union of the male/female, each with their characteristics making a better whole.

Kudo's to you. Many claim that the gays are asking for "special rights". At least you are honest enough to show that your support is for "special rights" only for heterosexuals instead of allowing equal rights for "the gheys".

But to continue, from a legal perspective when examining discrimination and equality issues the measurement is to define a compelling government interest in treating like situated individuals (or in this case couples) and articulating that reason as it applies to those equally situated groups.

So here is your shot, please articulate a secular compelling government interest in why treating tax paying, US Citizen, infertile, non-related, consent adults in a different-sex relationship are treated differently than tax paying, US Citizen, infertile, non-related, consent adults in a different-sex relationship in a same-sex relationship.

Go...


>>>>
 
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Sorry folks, what it boils down with most of you is that you do not like gay folks having the same rights as straight folks.
You believe homosexuality is wrong and those people are perverts.
 
Sorry folks, what it boils down with most of you is that you do not like gay folks having the same rights as straight folks.
You believe homosexuality is wrong and those people are perverts.

What I believe or you believe or Joe Blow believes is irrelevant.. the freedom for each of us to believe it, act upon it, and not be forced into participating in or condoning being a part of it is the issue... and that freedom should not be squashed by authoritarian overreaching government
 
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Sorry folks, what it boils down with most of you is that you do not like gay folks having the same rights as straight folks.
You believe homosexuality is wrong and those people are perverts.

What I believe or you believe or Joe Blow believes is irrelevant.. the freedom for each of us to believe it, act upon it, and not be forced into participating in or condoning being a part of it is the issue... and that freedom should not be squashed by authoritarian overreaching government

So if I don't want to serve blacks, I can post a sign in the window saying: "We don't serve Blacks"? Or "Blacks must sit in the back of the restaurant"?
 
Sorry folks, what it boils down with most of you is that you do not like gay folks having the same rights as straight folks.
You believe homosexuality is wrong and those people are perverts.

What I believe or you believe or Joe Blow believes is irrelevant.. the freedom for each of us to believe it, act upon it, and not be forced into participating in or condoning being a part of it is the issue... and that freedom should not be squashed by authoritarian overreaching government

So if I don't want to serve blacks, I can post a sign in the window saying: "We don't serve Blacks"? Or "Blacks must sit in the back of the restaurant"?

Ahhh.. the predictable redirect

Being black is not a choice, action, behavior, or event as a result of such things..

You having a 'gay wedding is a chosen action and particular to a behavior you wish to participate in

You do not get to force others to be a part of it in a free society
 
Just baffles the hell out of me.
Why would anyone oppose 2 folks of the same sex that are committed to and love each other wanting to have the joy of a wedding and get married?
Why does that offend someone when it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with them and AFFECTS THEM in NO way?

Baffles me too. I support the right of adults to engage in any consensual activity. Any adult ought to be able to marry any other adult they like. However, that doesn't mean I don't respect private property rights. People should have the right to be prejudice and to disagree with your statement, however much I agree with it.
 
You just said exactly the OPPOSITE of what she said. Because the KKK is a political organization (you realize the KKK is not a race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc. - right?) it is not protected under Public Accommodation laws that restrict owners from discriminating based on race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc.

As such a black business owner is free to turn down a catering job because they are a political organization, he is not free to turn them down because they are white.

Wrong. By her reasoning, if the Black forest turns down the KKK gig by stating it's because they're a WHITE supremacists group, that's illegal. That's what she said. Nothing about politics, but race...which is a protected class.

Point is there should be NO class protected over any other class, IMO.

Now if the KKK were to file a complaint with the appropriate agency, that agency will do an investigation. They will look at the group and they will look at the business - if the business. The business will say "No I didn't turn them down because they were white, here is a list of all my catering jobs over the last 2 years. As you will notice I routinly cater to white customers so that claim is false." Based on that evidence alone (that the owner supplies THE SAME catering service to white customers) the investigation would be closed and the case dismissed.


Sorry, the KKK thing is just stupid. You think businesses have records?

Doesn't matter. The proof is in the pudding. That Christian baker that was forced to service the gay wedding had done MANY gay events. Had PLENTY of gay customers...as their records showed. But when the gay wedding emerged, which conflicted with their protected status of religion, the PC police ruled in favor of the gay community.

Oh what a slippery slope.

How is baking a cake for a wedding against someone's religion?

Doesn't matter that you think it isn't. The baker thought it was...and it was more than just baking a cake. It was delivering it to a gay wedding, it was being forced to demonstrate support of that wedding, which is against that guy's religion.

I don't happen to agree with that point of view, but I respect that it's his right to feel that way.
 
Are you calling the people that wrote and passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 progressive assholes too?

The part that stomped all over private property rights, yes.
You should tell that to your fellow conservatives - they get all puffy and proud (well, pre-this month) as they like to so often announce how if it wasn't for 'publicans, yanno, the Civil Rights Act never would have passed!!

It's a real point of pride for them. Well, it used to be.

Sometimes they would even throw in a "Did you know MLK was a republican! :eek:."

One, I'm not a conservative.

Two, every point save one of the CRA was indeed a good law. PUBLIC property should definitely not be segregated. I (and the Conservatives) agree with that.

What I don't agree with is the section that forces private property owners to relinquish their rights for certain groups of people (I want to say it was Title II of the CRA). While I would NEVER agree to support such an establishment and would be the first to boycott, picket or otherwise shame them out of business, I maintain it's the right of a private property owner to be an asshole. What changes that is market forces and hitting them in the pocket book, not PC bullshit laws that are the epitome of the a slippery slope...as we're seeing today.
 
You just said exactly the OPPOSITE of what she said. Because the KKK is a political organization (you realize the KKK is not a race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc. - right?) it is not protected under Public Accommodation laws that restrict owners from discriminating based on race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc.

As such a black business owner is free to turn down a catering job because they are a political organization, he is not free to turn them down because they are white.

Wrong. By her reasoning, if the Black forest turns down the KKK gig by stating it's because they're a WHITE supremacists group, that's illegal. That's what she said. Nothing about politics, but race...which is a protected class.

Point is there should be NO class protected over any other class, IMO.

Now if the KKK were to file a complaint with the appropriate agency, that agency will do an investigation. They will look at the group and they will look at the business - if the business. The business will say "No I didn't turn them down because they were white, here is a list of all my catering jobs over the last 2 years. As you will notice I routinly cater to white customers so that claim is false." Based on that evidence alone (that the owner supplies THE SAME catering service to white customers) the investigation would be closed and the case dismissed.


Sorry, the KKK thing is just stupid. You think businesses have records?

Doesn't matter. The proof is in the pudding. That Christian baker that was forced to service the gay wedding had done MANY gay events. Had PLENTY of gay customers...as their records showed. But when the gay wedding emerged, which conflicted with their protected status of religion, the PC police ruled in favor of the gay community.

Oh what a slippery slope.
That's not what I said.

Well, let's be specific. You stated:

If someone operating a business open to the public and discriminates against an individual KKK member stating it is because he is white, then yes, then he would be in violation of the law.

I then stated:

...if the Black florist turns down the KKK gig by stating it's because they're a WHITE supremacists group, that's illegal.

How's that not what you said?
 
Sorry folks, what it boils down with most of you is that you do not like gay folks having the same rights as straight folks.
You believe homosexuality is wrong and those people are perverts.

I can't speak for others, but your assessment most certainly does not apply to me.

I don't believe anyone group should have more rights than any other. I don't not pass any judgement about right or wrong on any consensual activity between adults. I do not consider homosexuals to be perverts.

But again, that does not mean I don't respect the rights of private property and how important that is to a functioning Republic.

Now, if you want gay people to have the same rights to marry as straight people, I argue we should get the government the hell out of the marriage business and to stop granting any special privileges whatsoever to ANY particular group. That way, anyone could marry anyone they like. Problem solved.

Government has no business knowing, regulating or otherwise meddling with personal relationships with the possible exception of those in military service.
 
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Sorry folks, what it boils down with most of you is that you do not like gay folks having the same rights as straight folks.
You believe homosexuality is wrong and those people are perverts.

What I believe or you believe or Joe Blow believes is irrelevant.. the freedom for each of us to believe it, act upon it, and not be forced into participating in or condoning being a part of it is the issue... and that freedom should not be squashed by authoritarian overreaching government

Yes. Most confectioners would be happy to bake a cake for a gay wedding. When someone doesn't want to, instead of running to another cake maker who wants to do it, liberal gays run to politicians to force them to do it. It's the liberal gays who are sick, and not because of who they have sex with.

No one should be forced to do business with anyone by government. It has nothing to do with gay.
 
What I believe or you believe or Joe Blow believes is irrelevant.. the freedom for each of us to believe it, act upon it, and not be forced into participating in or condoning being a part of it is the issue... and that freedom should not be squashed by authoritarian overreaching government

So if I don't want to serve blacks, I can post a sign in the window saying: "We don't serve Blacks"? Or "Blacks must sit in the back of the restaurant"?

Ahhh.. the predictable redirect

Being black is not a choice, action, behavior, or event as a result of such things..

You having a 'gay wedding is a chosen action and particular to a behavior you wish to participate in

You do not get to force others to be a part of it in a free society

Ya, but what if I start a religion that hates blacks? Don't I have freedom of religion?

So being gay is a choice?
 
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