Arizona Bill on Immigration

[tigerbob]

The difference is that if you are driving, and don't have a license then you are guilty of the crime of driving without a license....

...Not guilty of not having an ID.

The difference is that if you are living in the US, and don't have a license then you are guilty of the crime of living in the U.S. without a license....

...Not guilty of not having an ID.

I wasn't aware that anyone had to have license to live in the US.

Jeez.......

License means formal permission.

 

[Samson]

The difference is that if you are driving, and don't have a license then you are guilty of the crime of driving without a license....

...Not guilty of not having an ID.

The difference is that if you are living in the US, and don't have a license then you are guilty of the crime of living in the U.S. without a license....

...Not guilty of not having an ID.

I wasn't aware that anyone had to have license to live in the US.

Kidding?

Tell me you're kidding.

 

[Ringel05]

The difference is that if you are living in the US, and don't have a license then you are guilty of the crime of living in the U.S. without a license....

...Not guilty of not having an ID.

I wasn't aware that anyone had to have license to live in the US.

Kidding?

Tell me you're kidding.

He/she must have never heard of a green card.

 

[hboats]

The difference is that if you are driving, and don't have a license then you are guilty of the crime of driving without a license....

...Not guilty of not having an ID.

The difference is that if you are living in the US, and don't have a license then you are guilty of the crime of living in the U.S. without a license....

...Not guilty of not having an ID.

I wasn't aware that anyone had to have license to live in the US.

You've never heard of a Birth Certificate? Do you know what it does? It certifies where you were born. It is REQUIRED to show citizenship. And if you weren't born here then you need official papers showing why you're here. Sounds to me like you need certification to live in the U.S.

Rick

 

[slackjawed]

Not without a trial. And not for a civil misdemeanor.

I can't understand why being in the country illegally is considered to be about the same as getting a speeding ticket. Nobody goes out for a walk one morning and accidentally steps over the border for a moment.

"America???? Sorry officer I didn't see the sign."

Because it is a victimless crime.

Just the lastest victim of the "victimless crime"..........

 

[Navy1960]

The card must be in the possession of the U.S. permanent resident at all times. This means that the permanent resident must have a currently valid card on the person at all times and be able to show it to a United States Citizenship and Immigration Services officer, if requested. Though aliens with permanent resident status are required to carry these identification cards, American citizens are not required to carry any citizenship identification (because no crime is being committed if you do not carry identification. (thats Federal Law, not Arizona Law)

Arizona ID and DL requirements:

An identification (ID) card is available to all ages (including infants) for a fee of $12. For persons age 65 and over, or anyone receiving federal Supplemental Security Income disability payments, there is no fee. You may not possess an Arizona identification card and a valid driver license at the same time.

Identification cards do not expire (unless issued in place of a suspended driver license). If issued in place of a suspended driver license, the card is valid for 180 days.

You must bring in two forms of identification, at least one must contain a photo, or three forms of non-photo identification, and complete a Driver License/Identification Card Application. See Identification Requirements for a listing of acceptable proof of identification. One proof must be listed under Primary.
Motor Vehicle Division

28-336. REAL ID act; implementation prohibited

This state shall not participate in the implementation of the REAL ID act of 2005 (P.L. 109-13, division B; 119 Stat. 302). The department shall not implement the REAL ID act of 2005 and shall report to the governor and the legislature any attempt by agencies or agents of the United States department of homeland security to secure the implementation of the REAL ID act of 2005 through the operations of the United States department of homeland security.
Format Document

Like most other states, if you drive without a license, you are subject to arrest and fine here. if people are upset over the docementation issue then direct your attention to Washington D.C. where the new Arizona Law seeks to enfoce EXISTING Federal law , regardless of how much mis-information people want to believe, if you have not read the bill please do so.

 

[Ravi]

I can't understand why being in the country illegally is considered to be about the same as getting a speeding ticket. Nobody goes out for a walk one morning and accidentally steps over the border for a moment.

"America???? Sorry officer I didn't see the sign."

Because it is a victimless crime.

Just the lastest victim of the "victimless crime"..........

Murder is a crime with a victim. Being undocumented isn't. I realize this is hard for you to grasp.

 

[hboats]

Because it is a victimless crime.

Just the lastest victim of the "victimless crime"..........

Murder is a crime with a victim. Being undocumented isn't. I realize this is hard for you to grasp.

Actually being here illegally does create victims. I noticed that you skipped my post that pointed that out.

I also notice that I've asked you more than once if you've even read the bill and you've neglected to answer, I wonder why that is.

Rick

 

[tigerbob]

Because it is a victimless crime.

Just the lastest victim of the "victimless crime"..........

Murder is a crime with a victim. Being undocumented isn't. I realize this is hard for you to grasp.

I am required by law to carry my Permanent Resident card with me at all times.

How's your grasp?

 

[tigerbob]

Just the lastest victim of the "victimless crime"..........

Murder is a crime with a victim. Being undocumented isn't. I realize this is hard for you to grasp.

Actually being here illegally does create victims. I noticed that you skipped my post that pointed that out.

I also notice that I've asked you more than once if you've even read the bill and you've neglected to answer, I wonder why that is.

Rick

His statement is flat out wrong.

 

[Ravi]

Just the lastest victim of the "victimless crime"..........

Murder is a crime with a victim. Being undocumented isn't. I realize this is hard for you to grasp.

I am required by law to carry my Permanent Resident card with me at all times.

How's your grasp?

You are. But American citizens aren't. That's where the problem lies.

 

[slackjawed]

Because it is a victimless crime.

Just the lastest victim of the "victimless crime"..........

Murder is a crime with a victim. Being undocumented isn't. I realize this is hard for you to grasp.

The undocumented have made Phoenix #1 in North America in the rate of kidnappings, and #2 in the world.

That sounds like a lot of "non-victims" to me.

As a legal resident of Az, I am suffering from my rights being violated in the following ways;
1:My public land is being subjected to litter and drug growing operations by illegal aliens.
2:I am not safe on my public land or my private property and am forced to take extrodianary means to protect myself, my livestock, my family and my property.
3:My civil rights as defined in the constitution are being violated because there is not "equal protection" in the way that the federal government refuses to enforce the law.
4: My community is being forced to use tax monies collected from legal citizens to provide services to illegal aliens in the form of food stamps, school enrollments as well as the extra cost of law enforcement and imprisonment of illegal aliens.


What about the rights of legal citizens like myself, that are law abiding, tax paying and community supporting?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

From the bill linked:

E. A Law Enforcement Officer, without a Warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes a person removable from the United States.

So, if a police officer suspects a person might be an illegal alien (which is an offense that makes a person removable from the US) than they can arrest them, at will, without a warrant.

Define public offense VLWC. Show us where on the Arizona codified statutes that being an illegal alien is a public offense..UNDER STATE LAW!

 

[hboats]

Murder is a crime with a victim. Being undocumented isn't. I realize this is hard for you to grasp.

I am required by law to carry my Permanent Resident card with me at all times.

How's your grasp?

You are. But American citizens aren't. That's where the problem lies.

Yes they are. An American citizen is REQUIRED by law to have their driver's license with them when driving a vehicle.

Rick

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Murder is a crime with a victim. Being undocumented isn't. I realize this is hard for you to grasp.

I am required by law to carry my Permanent Resident card with me at all times.

How's your grasp?

You are. But American citizens aren't. That's where the problem lies.

Mistaken Ravi....American citizens are required to carry a driver's license when driving. If they are walking down the street they don't have to carry a thing. If they are stopped however, for jaywalking or littering they must produce ID and identify themselves to law enforcement...if they cannot they are taken down to the police station and at that time will be afforded the chance to identify themselves once again...when they satisfy the police they are an "American citizen" they will be released pending their hearing on the original infraction they violated.

 

[Ravi]

Just the lastest victim of the "victimless crime"..........

Murder is a crime with a victim. Being undocumented isn't. I realize this is hard for you to grasp.

The undocumented have made Phoenix #1 in North America in the rate of kidnappings, and #2 in the world.

We have twice as many undocumented people. The drug trade is what is creating the problem.

1:My public land is being subjected to litter and drug growing operations by illegal aliens.
2:I am not safe on my public land or my private property and am forced to take extrodianary means to protect myself, my livestock, my family and my property.
3:My civil rights as defined in the constitution are being violated because there is not "equal protection" in the way that the federal government refuses to enforce the law.
4: My community is being forced to use tax monies collected from legal citizens to provide services to illegal aliens in the form of food stamps, school enrollments as well as the extra cost of law enforcement and imprisonment of illegal aliens.

Again, it is the drug trade that is causing these problems. People aren't drug dealers because they are undocumented. They are drug dealers because they are criminals.

btw, illegals CAN'T receive food stamps.

 

[Navy1960]

"state and local police officers [have] implicit authority within their respective jurisdictions ‘to investigate and make arrests for violations of federal law, including immigration laws.’" United States v. Santana-Garcia, 264 F.3d 1188, 1194 (citing United States v. Vasquez-Alvarez, 176 F.3d 1294, 1295).

What part of that is not clear? a person has commited a Federal crime when they have entered into the United States illegally and as such are subject to arrest, detention, investigation, and deportation. If the problem is with the law itself, then I suggest you direct your attention to the Federal Law that Arizona seeks to enforce, because there is nothing in SB-1070 that over-rides it and further there is a lot of case law that supports it. In fact as I have posted in other threads, there is even a civil rights provision in SB 1070 that prohibits civil rights violations according to Federal Law. and racial profiling is one of those.

 

[Ravi]

I am required by law to carry my Permanent Resident card with me at all times.

How's your grasp?

You are. But American citizens aren't. That's where the problem lies.

Yes they are. An American citizen is REQUIRED by law to have their driver's license with them when driving a vehicle.

Rick

I'm sorry, but you appear to be too stupid to talk to...keep your non sequiturs to yourself.

 

[jillian]

Yes they are. An American citizen is REQUIRED by law to have their driver's license with them when driving a vehicle.

Rick

you are required to have your driver's license with you when DRIVING. if you are NOT DRIVING, you have no need to carry it.

 

[Shorebreak]

As I read more into the legislation, I'm starting to move away from a support position. I'm now on the fence. Here's part of the reason why:

Federal law makes illegal presence in the US a civil violation that is deportable, not a criminal violation that is convictable. The AZ law criminalizes an illegal presence, meaning that those who are accused must also be accorded the full protection and support of the AZ legal system. Plus, AZ law enforcement officials will also be required to show probable cause that resulted in demanding proof of status.

I love any effort to eliminate illegal aliens from the country - especially with the awful criminal activities that illegals are spreading throughout AZ - but I don't know that this bill is a viable solution. I'm beginning to suspect that this legislation has a different purpose - probably related to influencing opinions and driving some alternative agenda that most folks are not considering. I don't know what that is (yet) but I do suspect that this legislation is not workable and is meant for something else, such as using border collapse/failure to justify some larger integrated Mexico/US economic agenda.

The cost and scope of enforcing this is probably too large for AZ to swallow. I'll be paying closer attention and I'll post my thoughts as we move forward.