Argument For The Death Penalty

[protectionist]

OK, so this thread is for a one sided argument FOR the death penalty. That's all. Gothca. Good luck.

As long as there is positive proof that the accused DID kill someone, what argument might there be AGAINST the death penalty ?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The evidence seems to suggest that murder rates decrease where states drop the death penalty.

 

[Skylar]

I'm against the death penalty for several reasons. First, its really expensive. It typically costs far more in appeals than it does to house and feed the prisoner for a life term. Second, its wrongly applied with disturbing regularity. Its estimated as many as 4% of death row inmates are actually innocent.

For example:

A former prosecutor who used false testimony and withheld evidence to send a now-exonerated man to Texas' death row has lost an appeal to overturn his disbarment. The Dallas Morning News reports that the Board of Disciplinary Appeals on Monday upheld the decision of the State Bar of Texas to disbar Charles Sebesta. The board's decision is final.

Prosecutor who sent innocent man to death row is disbarred | Fox News

Third, its not a deterrent.

 

[Dhara]

Fourth: It doesn't undo the harm that was done to the victims or survivors, and in many cases, worsens the suffering for them.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The death penalty does not apply to rape or slashing someone's face

Brilliant post.
Liberal judges: a threat to public safety.

1. "Carter-appointed judge Norma Shapiro “ is one of the worst offenders among that influential cadre of federal judges who have substituted the ACLU's prisoners' rights wish list for the Bill of Rights and have trifled with public safety concerns. … ....single-handedly decriminalized property and drug crimes in the City of Brotherly Love….And in the past 18 months alone, 9,732 arrestees, out on the streets on pre-trial release because of her prison cap, were arrested on second charges, including 79 murders, 90 rapes, 701 burglaries, 959 robberies, 1,113 assaults, 2,215 drug offenses and 2,748 thefts….
2. Activist judges such as Shapiro and Justice assert that prison crowding violates the Eighth Amendment's ban on cruel and unusual punishments. But there is no empirical evidence to substantiate this assertion. In every study of the subject, the widely believed negative effects of crowding - violence, program disruption, health problems and so on - are nowhere in evidence.” Activist Judges Earn Dunce Caps For Their Prison Caps
   1. In 1992, black youths were nine times more likely to be murdered than white youths. Liberals lied, black kids died.

b. "There is an activist judge behind each of the most perverse failures of today's justice system: violent offenders serving barely 40 percent of their sentences; 3.5 million criminals, most of them repeat offenders, on the streets on probation and parole; 35 percent of all persons arrested for
violent crime on probation, parole or pretrial release at the time of their arrest." (Article cited.)



The only way to protect society is to impose the death penalty on Kari Bazemore.


Perhaps someone can explain why Liberals are so concerned for the Kari Basemores, and ignore the innocent.

Why?

Perhaps they see more of themselves in the psychotic, homicidal, than in the innocent law abiding citizen.

In 2013, he was arrested for forcible touching in Manhattan and was charged with grand larceny last February

Right PC...we need to execute those involved in forcible touching because they may slash someone

Why be so obtuse?

It's the sum total of this piece of shit's behavior that has proven he cannot or will not choose not to be a dangerous criminal

How many chances do we give until the tally of victims becomes too long?

BTW I would say life in prison for this particular piece of shit rather than the death penalty

 

[protectionist]

The evidence seems to suggest that murder rates decrease where states drop the death penalty.

WHAT evidence ? Based on what ? That doesn't make any sense. I could see the sense of just the opposite. If you execute the killers, the killings they could continue to do, then won't happen. If you leave them alive, they can (and do) kill again. result: MORE killings, not less.

 

[protectionist]

I'm against the death penalty for several reasons. First, its really expensive. It typically costs far more in appeals than it does to house and feed the prisoner for a life term. Second, its wrongly applied with disturbing regularity. Its estimated as many as 4% of death row inmates are actually innocent.

For example:

A former prosecutor who used false testimony and withheld evidence to send a now-exonerated man to Texas' death row has lost an appeal to overturn his disbarment. The Dallas Morning News reports that the Board of Disciplinary Appeals on Monday upheld the decision of the State Bar of Texas to disbar Charles Sebesta. The board's decision is final.

Prosecutor who sent innocent man to death row is disbarred | Fox News

Third, its not a deterrent.

1. It's more expensive (one bullet) to dust the killer, than to house and feed him, and medically care for him for 70 years ? Is there a doctor in the house ? Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn ?

2. I ruled out cases of non-positive guilt.

3. Of course it's a deterrent. The executed killed can't kill again. It is life imprisonment which is not the deterrent. Imprisoned prisoners can and do kill again.

A List of Murderers Released to Murder Again!

 

[protectionist]

Fourth: It doesn't undo the harm that was done to the victims or survivors, and in many cases, worsens the suffering for them.

The harm it undoes, is to those victims who the spared killer kills afterwords, who would still be alive, if he had been executed.

A List of Murderers Released to Murder Again!

 

[ChrisL]

OK, so this thread is for a one sided argument FOR the death penalty. That's all. Gothca. Good luck.

As long as there is positive proof that the accused DID kill someone, what argument might there be AGAINST the death penalty ?

Expense is just one. Also, you must realize how some people are railroaded by the system. I use this case below as an example all the time. Although this man did not face the DP, he was wrongfully convicted of a murder he did not commit. He is not alone. You want to put human lives in the hands of other humans who err? Government employed prosecutors who maybe only care about getting another notch in their belts so they can move up??

The Story Of Wrongly Accused and Convicted Jeffrey Scott Hornoff

Hornoff was convicted of murder. Judge Krause denied Hornoff's request for a new trial saying the state's case was,"presented so convincingly and with such compelling force as to leave no doubt here that Jeffrey Scott Hornoff was properly and deservedly convicted of first-degree murder."Rhode Island Supreme Court Justice Maureen McKenna Goldberg said regarding the Hornoff appeal that,"the defense witnesses had been wholly incongruous and self-serving and had led the jury - properly - to convict."After serving 6 years, Mr. Hornoff was released in the fall of 2002 after the real killer confessed to the murder.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The evidence seems to suggest that murder rates decrease where states drop the death penalty.

WHAT evidence ? Based on what ? That doesn't make any sense. I could see the sense of just the opposite. If you execute the killers, the killings they could continue to do, then won't happen. If you leave them alive, they can (and do) kill again. result: MORE killings, not less.

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center
States that have dropped the death penalty have seen significant drops in their murder rates.

 

[protectionist]

For about the 10th time in this thread, I am only for the death penalty in cases of 100% positive guilt. If a killer murdered someone on the field, during the Super Bowl, in front of 60,000 people, and a billion on international TV, and there are score of videos showing it, I'd favor the death penalty.

1. And with that death penalty enacted in one years time from the killing, the cost would be one year incarceration, plus the cost of one bullet. Far less economically, than imprisoning someone for 50+ years.

2. Far less also , socially in terms of the lives that would be saved, by deterring the killer from killing again.

A List of Murderers Released to Murder Again!

 

[protectionist]

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center
States that have dropped the death penalty have seen significant drops in their murder rates.

I don't believe it. Makes no sense. Somebody's lying. I stand by Post # 26, 100%.

1. "The Center does not take an official position on the death penalty,[1] but is in actuality an anti-death penalty organization." [2][3]

2. "According to a pro-death penalty prosecutor, the DPIC is “probably the single most comprehensive and authoritative internet resource on the death penalty”, but “this site makes absolutely no effort to present any pro-death penalty views, and liberally spreads propaganda and rhetoric on behalf of ‘the cause’.”[4]

3. "The State of Kentucky criticized DPIC's list of botched executions. On January 7, 2008, the Supreme Court of the United States heard oral arguments in Baze v. Rees, a case challenging the three-drug cocktail used for many executions by lethal injection. The respondent's lawyer, Roy T. Englert, Jr., referred to the Death Penalty Information Center's list of “botched” executions. He criticized it because a majority of the executions on the list, according to respondent, “did not involve the infliction of pain, but were only delayed by technical problems (e.g., difficulty in finding a suitable vein)”.[5][6]

4. "The DPIC also has been criticized for its list of exonerated death row inmates by Ward A. Campbell, a supervising deputy state attorney general in Sacramento, California, who argued that a list of exonerated inmates is dishonestly portrayed." [7]

Death Penalty Information Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Skylar]

I'm against the death penalty for several reasons. First, its really expensive. It typically costs far more in appeals than it does to house and feed the prisoner for a life term. Second, its wrongly applied with disturbing regularity. Its estimated as many as 4% of death row inmates are actually innocent.

For example:

A former prosecutor who used false testimony and withheld evidence to send a now-exonerated man to Texas' death row has lost an appeal to overturn his disbarment. The Dallas Morning News reports that the Board of Disciplinary Appeals on Monday upheld the decision of the State Bar of Texas to disbar Charles Sebesta. The board's decision is final.

Prosecutor who sent innocent man to death row is disbarred | Fox News

Third, its not a deterrent.

1. It's more expensive (one bullet) to dust the killer, than to house and feed him, and medically care for him for 70 years ? Is there a doctor in the house ? Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn ?

If the arrest, trial, conviction, appeals and execution of a prisoner involved nothing more than 'one bullet', you might have a point. Alas, there's quite a bit more in the real world. Pretending otherwise changes nothing.

2. I ruled out cases of non-positive guilt.

Our justice system clearly didn't. As the litany of death row inmates exonerated and released demonstrate.

And that's the rub. If we knew that the convicted were guilty.....they'd be little controversy. But we have done a pretty piss poor job of determining it.

3. Of course it's a deterrent. The executed killed can't kill again. It is life imprisonment which is not the deterrent. Imprisoned prisoners can and do kill again.

The death penalty doesn't lower murder rates. Its expensive, imprecise, dangerously inaccurate, and has no particular law enforcement value.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center
States that have dropped the death penalty have seen significant drops in their murder rates.

I don't believe it. Makes no sense. Somebody's lying. I stand by Post # 26, 100%.

1. "The Center does not take an official position on the death penalty,[1] but is in actuality an anti-death penalty organization." [2][3]

2. "According to a pro-death penalty prosecutor, the DPIC is “probably the single most comprehensive and authoritative internet resource on the death penalty”, but “this site makes absolutely no effort to present any pro-death penalty views, and liberally spreads propaganda and rhetoric on behalf of ‘the cause’.”[4]

3. "The State of Kentucky criticized DPIC's list of botched executions. On January 7, 2008, the Supreme Court of the United States heard oral arguments in Baze v. Rees, a case challenging the three-drug cocktail used for many executions by lethal injection. The respondent's lawyer, Roy T. Englert, Jr., referred to the Death Penalty Information Center's list of “botched” executions. He criticized it because a majority of the executions on the list, according to respondent, “did not involve the infliction of pain, but were only delayed by technical problems (e.g., difficulty in finding a suitable vein)”.[5][6]

4. "The DPIC also has been criticized for its list of exonerated death row inmates by Ward A. Campbell, a supervising deputy state attorney general in Sacramento, California, who argued that a list of exonerated inmates is dishonestly portrayed." [7]

Death Penalty Information Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well they are using the FBI figures to compile their charts so I reckon that must be accurate.I have checked a few figures and it looks like they have copied them across. What figures are you using ?.

 

[ChrisL]

For about the 10th time in this thread, I am only for the death penalty in cases of 100% positive guilt. If a killer murdered someone on the field, during the Super Bowl, in front of 60,000 people, and a billion on international TV, and there are score of videos showing it, I'd favor the death penalty.

1. And with that death penalty enacted in one years time from the killing, the cost would be one year incarceration, plus the cost of one bullet. Far less economically, than imprisoning someone for 50+ years.

2. Far less also , socially in terms of the lives that would be saved, by deterring the killer from killing again.

A List of Murderers Released to Murder Again!

And how often does that happen?

 

[protectionist]

I'm against the death penalty for several reasons. First, its really expensive. It typically costs far more in appeals than it does to house and feed the prisoner for a life term. Second, its wrongly applied with disturbing regularity. Its estimated as many as 4% of death row inmates are actually innocent.

For example:

A former prosecutor who used false testimony and withheld evidence to send a now-exonerated man to Texas' death row has lost an appeal to overturn his disbarment. The Dallas Morning News reports that the Board of Disciplinary Appeals on Monday upheld the decision of the State Bar of Texas to disbar Charles Sebesta. The board's decision is final.

Prosecutor who sent innocent man to death row is disbarred | Fox News

Third, its not a deterrent.

1. It's more expensive (one bullet) to dust the killer, than to house and feed him, and medically care for him for 70 years ? Is there a doctor in the house ? Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn ?

If the arrest, trial, conviction, appeals and execution of a prisoner involved nothing more than 'one bullet', you might have a point. Alas, there's quite a bit more in the real world. Pretending otherwise changes nothing.

2. I ruled out cases of non-positive guilt.

Our justice system clearly didn't. As the litany of death row inmates exonerated and released demonstrate.

And that's the rub. If we knew that the convicted were guilty.....they'd be little controversy. But we have done a pretty piss poor job of determining it.

3. Of course it's a deterrent. The executed killed can't kill again. It is life imprisonment which is not the deterrent. Imprisoned prisoners can and do kill again.

The death penalty doesn't lower murder rates. Its expensive, imprecise, dangerously inaccurate, and has no particular law enforcement value.

1. Maybe YOU're "pretending". You're smart enough to know of course I mean after arrest, trial, conviction and appeals. But that need not take more than a year. 2 years tops. Then, it is NOT so expensive, and nowhere near as expensive as housing the killer in a prison for 50+ years. The only way it might be as expensive is if the killer is allowed to keep appealing for 20 or 30 years, like they ludicrously, unnecessarily do now (only to pad the pockets of those in the court "industry"). A scam, paid for with taxpayers $$, and putting people lives at risk, the whole time. Many have died already because of it (as my link showed).

2. I'm not talking about what "we have done" I'm talking about what we SHOULD DO depending on the circumstances.

3. Yes the death penalty certainly DOES lower murder rates.

Example one: before he was executed, Ted Bundy killed 30+ people. After execution, he killed ZERO.

Example 2: before he was executed, John Allen Muhammad killed 19 people. After execution, he killed ZERO.

Example 3: before he was executed, John Wayne Gacy killed 33 people. After execution, he killed ZERO.

This list could go into the thousands of killers, and much higher number of victims. But you can keep hugging your anti-death penalty propaganda, like the # 1 lobbyist of that, the Death Penalty Information Center, which I already showed (Post # 32) is a propaganda mill of dubious credibility.

And of course, it has law enforcement value. It saves the lives of all those who the killer would subsequently kill, after the time that he could have been executed.

It's not expensive, it's very INexpensive compared to prison, as long as you don't stupidly carry on years of appeals (just to enrich court personnel). And how can it be imprecise or dangerously inaccurate ? You kill somebody - they're DEAD. What else is there to it ?

 

[protectionist]

Well they are using the FBI figures to compile their charts so I reckon that must be accurate.I have checked a few figures and it looks like they have copied them across. What figures are you using ?.

I go by the links in my link. Post # 32. Click the links. (#s 1 - 7). They're all there. No need to ask. Whatever DPIC "uses" hardly matters. They still abuse rather than use figures, and they're well known for their stretches of the truth, as I, and Wikipedia, already noted. They should be called Death Penalty MISinformation Center.

 

[protectionist]

And how often does that happen?

Does WHAT happen ?

 

[Care4all]

Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God Has God made mankind."

you do know that passage means whomever murders a man, should be killed.... NOT whomever robs or slashes....

on punishment no more than:
an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.....a life for a life.

 

[Care4all]

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center
States that have dropped the death penalty have seen significant drops in their murder rates.

I don't believe it. Makes no sense. Somebody's lying. I stand by Post # 26, 100%.

1. "The Center does not take an official position on the death penalty,[1] but is in actuality an anti-death penalty organization." [2][3]

2. "According to a pro-death penalty prosecutor, the DPIC is “probably the single most comprehensive and authoritative internet resource on the death penalty”, but “this site makes absolutely no effort to present any pro-death penalty views, and liberally spreads propaganda and rhetoric on behalf of ‘the cause’.”[4]

3. "The State of Kentucky criticized DPIC's list of botched executions. On January 7, 2008, the Supreme Court of the United States heard oral arguments in Baze v. Rees, a case challenging the three-drug cocktail used for many executions by lethal injection. The respondent's lawyer, Roy T. Englert, Jr., referred to the Death Penalty Information Center's list of “botched” executions. He criticized it because a majority of the executions on the list, according to respondent, “did not involve the infliction of pain, but were only delayed by technical problems (e.g., difficulty in finding a suitable vein)”.[5][6]

4. "The DPIC also has been criticized for its list of exonerated death row inmates by Ward A. Campbell, a supervising deputy state attorney general in Sacramento, California, who argued that a list of exonerated inmates is dishonestly portrayed." [7]

Death Penalty Information Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it's the truth, the states that have recently dropped the death penalty have seen their murder rates drop.

the ten states with the highest murder rates are all death penalty states with the exception of 1, maryland, which dropped their death penalty in 2012, and have seen less murders since they dropped it.
edited below
the ten states with the lowest murder rates are all states without the death penalty, but 4 states

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center