Are you in favor of Obama's new Amnesty/Voter register program?

[SFC Ollie]

What's your point, Foxfyre? Did the guy have a legitimate work comp claim that had nothing to do with the crime? If so, then you are incorrect to suggest that it was wrong for him to get it, even though he is a sleazeball of a human being.

If he is here illegally, why is he getting anything like workmans compensation? Take his ass out of prison and turn him over to the Mexican authorities, And charge Mexico for every dime he's been paid. I thought the libs keep telling us how the illegals aren't getting government assistance?

 

[Foxfyre]

You clearly know that isn't true of every invader.

That's for sure. A disproportionate number of our jail and prison populations in New Mexico are illegal immigrants who committed crimes far more serious than entering the country illegally. A largely disproportionate number of car thefts, traffic accidents, burglaries, thefts, drug crimes, assault and battery are committed by illegals here. But New Mexico is effectively a 'sanctuary state' because our Governor does not wish to evict the illegals.

I had the unhappy duty of administering a work comp claim for an illegal who broke into a lady's house, stole some stuff and then trashed the place, tied up her little dog and burned it alive in the bathtub and left threatening notes of what he would do to her when she returned home. The poor woman, dealing with all that trauma, lived for two weeks in fear of her life before, by pure chance, the guy was caught, convicted, and sent to prison.

And because he had a pending work comp claim, I had the happy duty of sending him a work comp check every week while he was in prison.

Someone broke into my Aunts beach cabin years ago and helped himself to the food, stayed there, lived there, until one of her friends caught him and sent him packing. Interesting that you think he should have just been able to stay in her beach cabin because all he wanted was a better life and didn't enter her beach cabin to do malice, but just to live and eat her food. It's the SAME thing. They are stealing into our home (our country). They are taking OUR jobs, they are reducing OUR wages, they are stealing from US and you think it's just fine because they only want a job and to feed their families. Well guess what, there's a heck of a lot of American's who want jobs, some who have them and still can't feed their families and the fault of that lays on those illegals and our government that INCREASED immigration when we DECREASED our birthrate. The truth is that without all those illegals and legal immigrants, our income gap would not be so high today and we wouldn't be facing this worldwide depression. Yes, other countries have illegals too and too many have refused to realize that this is BAD for EVERYBODY.

???? I don't think you intended to use my post for your response here Sheila.

I have NEVER supported illegal immigration for any reason, and I certainly have not tried to justify illegal activities for anybody 'just because they wanted a better life.' Hell, most people who steal or rob or commit burglaries do so because they don't have any money and need some. Their intent usually isn't to hurt anybody but just to remedy their situation. Why is it that the pro-amnesty, pro-illegal sympathizers would support people entering the country illegally, utilizing resources paid for and intended for people here legally, taking jobs needed by Americans, depressing wages, and straining social services to the breaking point in may areas, but they would say the robber, thief, burglar isn't doing the same thing?

It's nuts.

 

[Againsheila]

That's for sure. A disproportionate number of our jail and prison populations in New Mexico are illegal immigrants who committed crimes far more serious than entering the country illegally. A largely disproportionate number of car thefts, traffic accidents, burglaries, thefts, drug crimes, assault and battery are committed by illegals here. But New Mexico is effectively a 'sanctuary state' because our Governor does not wish to evict the illegals.

I had the unhappy duty of administering a work comp claim for an illegal who broke into a lady's house, stole some stuff and then trashed the place, tied up her little dog and burned it alive in the bathtub and left threatening notes of what he would do to her when she returned home. The poor woman, dealing with all that trauma, lived for two weeks in fear of her life before, by pure chance, the guy was caught, convicted, and sent to prison.

And because he had a pending work comp claim, I had the happy duty of sending him a work comp check every week while he was in prison.

Someone broke into my Aunts beach cabin years ago and helped himself to the food, stayed there, lived there, until one of her friends caught him and sent him packing. Interesting that you think he should have just been able to stay in her beach cabin because all he wanted was a better life and didn't enter her beach cabin to do malice, but just to live and eat her food. It's the SAME thing. They are stealing into our home (our country). They are taking OUR jobs, they are reducing OUR wages, they are stealing from US and you think it's just fine because they only want a job and to feed their families. Well guess what, there's a heck of a lot of American's who want jobs, some who have them and still can't feed their families and the fault of that lays on those illegals and our government that INCREASED immigration when we DECREASED our birthrate. The truth is that without all those illegals and legal immigrants, our income gap would not be so high today and we wouldn't be facing this worldwide depression. Yes, other countries have illegals too and too many have refused to realize that this is BAD for EVERYBODY.

???? I don't think you intended to use my post for your response here Sheila.

I have NEVER supported illegal immigration for any reason, and I certainly have not tried to justify illegal activities for anybody 'just because they wanted a better life.' Hell, most people who steal or rob or commit burglaries do so because they don't have any money and need some. Their intent usually isn't to hurt anybody but just to remedy their situation. Why is it that the pro-amnesty, pro-illegal sympathizers would support people entering the country illegally, utilizing resources paid for and intended for people here legally, taking jobs needed by Americans, depressing wages, and straining social services to the breaking point in may areas, but they would say the robber, thief, burglar isn't doing the same thing?

It's nuts.

No, I didn't....I should have made it clear I was responding to the person you quoted, sorry. I'd say it won't happen again, but as I've lost my mind, I can't make that promise.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What's your point, Foxfyre? Did the guy have a legitimate work comp claim that had nothing to do with the crime? If so, then you are incorrect to suggest that it was wrong for him to get it, even though he is a sleazeball of a human being.

If he is here illegally, why is he getting anything like workmans compensation? Take his ass out of prison and turn him over to the Mexican authorities, And charge Mexico for every dime he's been paid. I thought the libs keep telling us how the illegals aren't getting government assistance?

Because the law does not prevent it. Pay into it, get the benefit. Sorry, Ollie, you are absolutely incorrect on this one. When the guy is done with jail, send him to Mexico. But if you are going to be inconsistent with the law on this, you will be inconsistent on the law in other matters.

 

[Foxfyre]

Someone broke into my Aunts beach cabin years ago and helped himself to the food, stayed there, lived there, until one of her friends caught him and sent him packing. Interesting that you think he should have just been able to stay in her beach cabin because all he wanted was a better life and didn't enter her beach cabin to do malice, but just to live and eat her food. It's the SAME thing. They are stealing into our home (our country). They are taking OUR jobs, they are reducing OUR wages, they are stealing from US and you think it's just fine because they only want a job and to feed their families. Well guess what, there's a heck of a lot of American's who want jobs, some who have them and still can't feed their families and the fault of that lays on those illegals and our government that INCREASED immigration when we DECREASED our birthrate. The truth is that without all those illegals and legal immigrants, our income gap would not be so high today and we wouldn't be facing this worldwide depression. Yes, other countries have illegals too and too many have refused to realize that this is BAD for EVERYBODY.

???? I don't think you intended to use my post for your response here Sheila.

I have NEVER supported illegal immigration for any reason, and I certainly have not tried to justify illegal activities for anybody 'just because they wanted a better life.' Hell, most people who steal or rob or commit burglaries do so because they don't have any money and need some. Their intent usually isn't to hurt anybody but just to remedy their situation. Why is it that the pro-amnesty, pro-illegal sympathizers would support people entering the country illegally, utilizing resources paid for and intended for people here legally, taking jobs needed by Americans, depressing wages, and straining social services to the breaking point in may areas, but they would say the robber, thief, burglar isn't doing the same thing?

It's nuts.

No, I didn't....I should have made it clear I was responding to the person you quoted, sorry. I'd say it won't happen again, but as I've lost my mind, I can't make that promise.

ROFL. No problem. And I'd rather have this kind of mistake than be ignored altogether And I'll put your mind up against a whole bunch of folks who are still operating under the delusion that they are rational.

 

[Foxfyre]

What's your point, Foxfyre? Did the guy have a legitimate work comp claim that had nothing to do with the crime? If so, then you are incorrect to suggest that it was wrong for him to get it, even though he is a sleazeball of a human being.

If he is here illegally, why is he getting anything like workmans compensation? Take his ass out of prison and turn him over to the Mexican authorities, And charge Mexico for every dime he's been paid. I thought the libs keep telling us how the illegals aren't getting government assistance?

That's what was so galling. Legally we could not deny him workers compensation benefits despite his breaking and entering the country illegally and working on a job that was illegal for his employer to give him. And such benefits could not be denied after committing such a horrendous crime.

I think the employer should have to pay for the whole thing. The damages the guy caused, punative damages for the emotional grief he caused that lady, and for whatever work comp injuries the guy sustained.

I bet he would then think long and hard before he hired another illegal.

 

[LANMaster]

1. Secure the Border. 2. Punish business the violates the law: managers and owners to jail, companies sold to competitors. 3. Amnesty, registration, and path to citizenship.

These provisions must be passed in an omnibus bill. Any senator or Congress person who opposes it must be driven from office. The welfare of the country outweighs partisanship. Acts of nativism must be outlawed as well.

You left out one thing DEPORT THOSE HERE ILLEGALLY ... NOW!

There is a better way ....

Open up the gates to LEGAL immigration and REFUSE CITIZENSHIP to anyone who is here or has ever been here illegally.

 

[Foxfyre]

We can do that LANmaster IF those immigrating legally have a sponsor, have a job, and/or have some means of support that does not require tapping into social services, and IF those immigrants wanting a path to citizenship are willing to denounce allegiance and citizenship in their home country, and IF those immigrants are willing to learn the language and be able to read and pass a test on our laws, history, culture, and Constitution in English and finally, IF they are prohibited from bringing in anybody and everybody remotely related to them who does not go through the same process.

We cannot just flood the country with illegals who don't have jobs, who don't have skills to get jobs, and who don't know the language or the laws or who will need months and years of government support just to survive.

 

[Againsheila]

1. Secure the Border. 2. Punish business the violates the law: managers and owners to jail, companies sold to competitors. 3. Amnesty, registration, and path to citizenship.

These provisions must be passed in an omnibus bill. Any senator or Congress person who opposes it must be driven from office. The welfare of the country outweighs partisanship. Acts of nativism must be outlawed as well.

You left out one thing DEPORT THOSE HERE ILLEGALLY ... NOW!

There is a better way ....

Open up the gates to LEGAL immigration and REFUSE CITIZENSHIP to anyone who is here or has ever been here illegally.

We already take in more legal immigrants each year than all other nations COMBINED. Our resources are strained. We are running out of water, energy, etc. How are we suppose to support the world? We can't even support every American citizen.

 

[Foxfyre]

1. Secure the Border. 2. Punish business the violates the law: managers and owners to jail, companies sold to competitors. 3. Amnesty, registration, and path to citizenship.

These provisions must be passed in an omnibus bill. Any senator or Congress person who opposes it must be driven from office. The welfare of the country outweighs partisanship. Acts of nativism must be outlawed as well.

You left out one thing DEPORT THOSE HERE ILLEGALLY ... NOW!

There is a better way ....

Open up the gates to LEGAL immigration and REFUSE CITIZENSHIP to anyone who is here or has ever been here illegally.

We already take in more legal immigrants each year than all other nations COMBINED. Our resources are strained. We are running out of water, energy, etc. How are we suppose to support the world? We can't even support every American citizen.

The reason is that illegals are given all the resources and privileges of citizens except maybe the right to obtain a passport or vote here, and I think the politicians are trying to get around the barriers that prevent them from doing that. I know that amnesty will most likely give them the right to collect Social Security which would continue even if they left the country. We let illegals work, drive, utilize all social services, give them free healthcare and education, and get full Constitutional protection in most ways. Of course that is a huge incentive to encourage more and more illegals to come.

No other country anywhere that provides any services for its citizens affords those same services to people there illegally. Thus, illegals are fairly rare. Mexico has an immigration policy that is hugely tougher on illegals than we do, and Canada's has extremely tough immigration laws and tougher enforcement of illegal immigration than Mexico.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OK, all Americans have a right to complain, to yell, to *****. BUT we are not deporting 11mm aliens. Not going to happen. So let's come up with a realistic solution to all of this.

 

[SFC Ollie]

OK, all Americans have a right to complain, to yell, to *****. BUT we are not deporting 11mm aliens. Not going to happen. So let's come up with a realistic solution to all of this.

Realistically? Start the deportations immediately. One at a time or a bus load. Hell we can fill up several hundred C5's. Anyway we got them we can start shipping. It's not really a problem at all.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ollie, that is not going to happen. The "get rid of em all" crowd does not have the influence or the votes. We have to come up with a realistic solution.

 

[SFC Ollie]

By realistic you mean amnesty, and I cannot accept that as an option.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Then you will be in the minority, and the country will move along.

 

[Flopper]

We can do that LANmaster IF those immigrating legally have a sponsor, have a job, and/or have some means of support that does not require tapping into social services, and IF those immigrants wanting a path to citizenship are willing to denounce allegiance and citizenship in their home country, and IF those immigrants are willing to learn the language and be able to read and pass a test on our laws, history, culture, and Constitution in English and finally, IF they are prohibited from bringing in anybody and everybody remotely related to them who does not go through the same process.

We cannot just flood the country with illegals who don't have jobs, who don't have skills to get jobs, and who don't know the language or the laws or who will need months and years of government support just to survive.

Quite a bit of what you want is in the reform bill. The path to citizenship is as follows:

· The illegal immigrant must admit their guilt.
· Must be a resident of the US prior to Dec. 2009
· Pay a fine.
· Pay all back taxes
· Submit to a criminal background check
· Pay application fees. Upon acceptance the person is granted legal documented status
· During the following 8 years the person must:
Learn English
Complete a course in civics
Remain in the US.
Maintain a clean criminal record
· After 8 years the person can make application for citizenship.

It is unlikely we will see very many people taking this path. The costs are high and there are many obstacles. I suspect that those that can make it through this process will make good citizens.

I my opinion, the Path to Citizenship is one of the least important parts of the bill. The major parts of the bill are the national id card, requirements of employers to hire only legal residents, new technology for border surveillance, and many changes to the INS procedures including handling of convicted illegal immigrants.

 

[Foxfyre]

We can do that LANmaster IF those immigrating legally have a sponsor, have a job, and/or have some means of support that does not require tapping into social services, and IF those immigrants wanting a path to citizenship are willing to denounce allegiance and citizenship in their home country, and IF those immigrants are willing to learn the language and be able to read and pass a test on our laws, history, culture, and Constitution in English and finally, IF they are prohibited from bringing in anybody and everybody remotely related to them who does not go through the same process.

We cannot just flood the country with illegals who don't have jobs, who don't have skills to get jobs, and who don't know the language or the laws or who will need months and years of government support just to survive.

Quite a bit of what you want is in the reform bill. The path to citizenship is as follows:

· The illegal immigrant must admit their guilt.
· Must be a resident of the US prior to Dec. 2009
· Pay a fine.
· Pay all back taxes
· Submit to a criminal background check
· Pay application fees. Upon acceptance the person is granted legal documented status
· During the following 8 years the person must:
Learn English
Complete a course in civics
Remain in the US.
Maintain a clean criminal record
· After 8 years the person can make application for citizenship.

It is unlikely we will see very many people taking this path. The costs are high and there are many obstacles. I suspect that those that can make it through this process will make good citizens.

I my opinion, the Path to Citizenship is one of the least important parts of the bill. The major parts of the bill are the national id card, requirements of employers to hire only legal residents, new technology for border surveillance, and many changes to the INS procedures including handling of convicted illegal immigrants.

You still have the problem though of allowing law breakers to buy a place in line ahead of those who have been waiting years or decades for a chance to immigrate legally to the USA.

And that feels like a huge injustice to many of us.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We can do that LANmaster IF those immigrating legally have a sponsor, have a job, and/or have some means of support that does not require tapping into social services, and IF those immigrants wanting a path to citizenship are willing to denounce allegiance and citizenship in their home country, and IF those immigrants are willing to learn the language and be able to read and pass a test on our laws, history, culture, and Constitution in English and finally, IF they are prohibited from bringing in anybody and everybody remotely related to them who does not go through the same process.

We cannot just flood the country with illegals who don't have jobs, who don't have skills to get jobs, and who don't know the language or the laws or who will need months and years of government support just to survive.

Quite a bit of what you want is in the reform bill. The path to citizenship is as follows:

· The illegal immigrant must admit their guilt.
· Must be a resident of the US prior to Dec. 2009
· Pay a fine.
· Pay all back taxes
· Submit to a criminal background check
· Pay application fees. Upon acceptance the person is granted legal documented status
· During the following 8 years the person must:
Learn English
Complete a course in civics
Remain in the US.
Maintain a clean criminal record
· After 8 years the person can make application for citizenship.

It is unlikely we will see very many people taking this path. The costs are high and there are many obstacles. I suspect that those that can make it through this process will make good citizens.

I my opinion, the Path to Citizenship is one of the least important parts of the bill. The major parts of the bill are the national id card, requirements of employers to hire only legal residents, new technology for border surveillance, and many changes to the INS procedures including handling of convicted illegal immigrants.

You still have the problem though of allowing law breakers to buy a place in line ahead of those who have been waiting years or decades for a chance to immigrate legally to the USA.

And that feels like a huge injustice to many of us.

It may be injustice. Much of human history operates that way. However, you don't have the votes to implement what you want, but you may have the votes to prevent the other side in accomplishing the goal.

Sounds like it is time for a national consensus.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Then at least maybe we can block amnesty. Eventually people will learn.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ollie, that may be so, blocking amnesty. But the other side, which has the votes in the House and has it in the Senate if it goes with reconciliation, will not wait forever, I think. If the President does it by executive order, which would require a 2/3rd override in both the House and the Senate, then it is done deal. I understand the President and his allies are considering that option.