Are we upholding the goals of the founding fathers?

[eagle1462010]

They also didn't want the USA to get involved in European wars or colonialism. The Founders were merchants and businessmen, who had seen European wars over religion or territory drain the public coffers, destroy nations and kill thousands. The Founders wanted a peaceful nation, free of religious interference in government, where a man rose or fell on his abilities and his worth ethic, not by virtue of the station of his birth.

The Foundes wrote a constitution for a small, coastal, agrarian nation with a population of fewer than 5 million people.

They gave more power to the states because weather conditions and growing conditions varied so markedly from the Northern States to the Southetn States that each state needed the ability to tailor their laws to their state’s climate and economic realities.

The population in general, grew up, lived and died within a 50 miles radius of where they were born.

They didn’t envision a sprawling coast to coast nation with a mobile population of 300 million people.

But they did envision the need for changes to the original constitution, something that modern Americans have ceased doing.

So now you whine about saving Europe twice. You are a nut

 

[rampart]

They also didn't want the USA to get involved in European wars or colonialism. The Founders were merchants and businessmen, who had seen European wars over religion or territory drain the public coffers, destroy nations and kill thousands. The Founders wanted a peaceful nation, free of religious interference in government, where a man rose or fell on his abilities and his worth ethic, not by virtue of the station of his birth.

The Foundes wrote a constitution for a small, coastal, agrarian nation with a population of fewer than 5 million people.

They gave more power to the states because weather conditions and growing conditions varied so markedly from the Northern States to the Southetn States that each state needed the ability to tailor their laws to their state’s climate and economic realities.

The population in general, grew up, lived and died within a 50 miles radius of where they were born.

They didn’t envision a sprawling coast to coast nation with a mobile population of 300 million people.

But they did envision the need for changes to the original constitution, something that modern Americans have ceased doing.

people are saying that there are a lot of famous compromises in the constitution. why would the founders need to compromise if they all agreed?

 

[Mac1958]

Are we upholding the goals of the founding fathers?

The first goal was to create a more perfect union, or promote national unity. The second goal was to establish justice, or equality before the law. The third goal was to ensure domestic tranquility, or peace at home.

The Founding Fathers wanted to make it difficult for one person, party, or group to get control of the government. To achieve these goals, the Founding Fathers proposed a national government where power was divided between three separate branches of government: the Executive, the Legislative, and the Judiciary.

The Founders would be horrified. They thought they had safeguards in place to protect against what is happening.

They didn't anticipate a mentally ill orange con man fooling so many people, turning elected representatives into scared little bunnies.

 

[Marener]

So another America sucks post from someone who wants us to fall huh

Where did I say America sucks?

I said we are better than the founders. That’s obvious to anyone with half a brain.

 

[Dragonlady]

Better than founders.lmao

But expected from you.

Yes, we know better today what a nation needs to be successful in the 21st Century, then the Founders knew in 1776. Only an idiot would believe otherwise.

But your Founders also knew that your Constitution would need to be updated, and they made provision for doing that.

The Canadian Constitution originated as the British-North American Act in Great Britain in 1867. It was rewritten and updated by Pierre Elliott Trudeau in 1982.

By updating rights of the Canadian people and obligations of its government to the people, our nation began to grow and thrive. We’ve gone from being “nice guy nation” that couldn’t even win a gold medal at our home Olympics, to topping the world leaders lists as the best country in the world to live in.

We have a healthy and thriving middle class, coast to coast infrastructure, best educated work force in the world, universal health care, low crime rates.

We don’t spend decades making social and economic progress, and then reverse all that progress based on the writings of rich white men made by candle light 300 years ago.

 

[IM2]

The nation was not founded with slavery in mind.

The nation was founded with the idea of equality between men.

YOUR trouble is that slaves were not considered fully human at the time, and remained a lower priority side-show for decades...

But that doesn't negate the beauty nor usefulness of the ideals and goals established for the Republic by those men...

And, for every southern Father in favor of slavery, you'll find one or more northern Fathers who were opposed to it...

And 350,000 or more of their sons and grandsons and new immigrants - overwhelmingly White - died to fix it 80+ years later...

So spare us the un-thinking juvenile chip-on-your-shoulder "bunch of white slavers" bull$hit...

To continue advancing forward in this society you need the goodwill of society at-large and that includes lots of White Folk...

You don't get or retain that goodwill by throwing rocks at the timeless and righteous ideals on which the Republic was founded...

Learn to separate the Good from the Bad and run with the Good rather than perpetuating your pointless angst over the Bad...

You'll get more people to listen to you and you'll get further along with your goals by taking a positive tack over time...

The alternative is to remain isolated in Blue-controlled $hithole$ and remain a lower-priority side-show for additional decades.

They owned slaves and made provisions for slaves to be counted as 3/5ths of a human so slavery was part of it. The sooner we stop making these men gods, the better we will be as a nation.

 

[IM2]

Yes, we know better today what a nation needs to be successful in the 21st Century, then the Founders knew in 1776. Only an idiot would believe otherwise.

But your Founders also knew that your Constitution would need to be updated, and they made provision for doing that.

The Canadian Constitution originated as the British-North American Act in Great Britain in 1867. It was rewritten and updated by Pierre Elliott Trudeau in 1982.

By updating rights of the Canadian people and obligations of its government to the people, our nation began to grow and thrive. We’ve gone from being “nice guy nation” that couldn’t even win a gold medal at our home Olympics, to topping the world leaders lists as the best country in the world to live in.

We have a healthy and thriving middle class, coast to coast infrastructure, best educated work force in the world, universal health care, low crime rates.

We don’t spend decades making social and economic progress, and then reverse all that progress based on the writings of rich white men made by candle light 300 years ago.

And signed in quill pen ink on a piece of parchment.

 

[rampart]

And signed in quill pen ink on a piece of parchment.

the ink hasn't aged too badly, we need to make some teraks, but i do not trust them in the process.

"i will not see the ring of power in the hands if an elf" gimli son of gloin

great scene "the council of elrond." the evil influence is filmed reflected in the ring itself as the orcish "one ring to rule them all" poem burns like very atlanta in 1864. .

 

[Kondor3]

They owned slaves and made provisions for slaves to be counted as 3/5ths of a human so slavery was part of it. The sooner we stop making these men gods, the better we will be as a nation.

Blacks are 13% of the population.

You are swimming upstream on this one and will ultimately have that initiative set aside again.

Most White Folks view the Founders are having far more positive attributes than negative ones.

Those Founders defied the mightiest empire extant in that world and pulled-off the world's first modern-day representative democracy...

That signifies FAR more than than the sins of that modest percentage of them who held slaves at the time...

 

[IM2]

Blacks are 13% of the population.

You are swimming upstrea

Most White Folks view the Founders are having far more positive attributes than negative ones.

Those Founders defied the mightiest empire extant in that world and pulled-off the world's first modern-day representative democracy...

That signifies FAR more than than the sins of that modest percentage of them who held slaves at the time...

Despite the fact that we are 13 percent of the population, we are entitled to 100 percent of the law. So you can take your little 13 percent excuse and shove it. Those men didn't even found anything. Nations were already here. So what a small percentage of whites in America see as great, most whites on earth don't. And since whites are about 12 percent of the worlds population, and American whites less than 5 percent, you might be wise to listen to what non white people say about the intent of the floundering fathers..

 

[ElmerMudd]

The Founders would be horrified. They thought they had safeguards in place to protect against what is happening.

They didn't anticipate a mentally ill orange con man fooling so many people, turning elected representatives into scared little bunnies.

I am confident the safeguards will eliminate Trump and MAGA as a threat but I never thought I would see such a large group of Americans fall for the evils of Trumpism.

 

[Dragonlady]

Blacks are 13% of the population.

You are swimming upstream on this one and will ultimately have that initiative set aside again.

Most White Folks view the Founders are having far more positive attributes than negative ones.

Those Founders defied the mightiest empire extant in that world and pulled-off the world's first modern-day representative democracy...

That signifies FAR more than than the sins of that modest percentage of them who held slaves at the time...

"at the time" being the key operative words here. What is concerning is the deification of your Founders. And your refusal to update your Constitution for the 21st Century.

The Founders were very much men of their time. Their concerns were commerce, religious freedom and keeping clear of European wars. Their concerns about whether or not they could "keep" the Republic were borne out by the French Revolution which lead to the rise of Napoleon.

But their time is long gone, and your Constitution needs to reflect the needs of your country NOW, not 300 years ago.

 

[Mac1958]

I am confident the safeguards will eliminate Trump and MAGA as a threat but I never thought I would see such a large group of Americans fall for the evils of Trumpism.

Well, as I've been saying since the 2016 elections, this disaster needs to be examined from a sociological perspective.

What does it say about us as a country that this has happened? And even more NOW, with all that has happened since, and all we know -- including the fact that he is a sexual abuser?

This is, and always has been, about US.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Well, as I've been saying since the 2016 elections, this disaster needs to be examined from a sociological perspective.

What does it say about us as a country that this has happened? And even more NOW, with all that has happened since, and all we know -- including the fact that he is a sexual abuser?

This is, and always has been, about US.

I agree. Trumpism is about Trump, not our country.
I agree with the need for a socialogic examination of how all this happened.
What has driven so many people to buy into the con and lies of Trump. They are, obviously, desperate and grabbing for straws but why.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Why? Because too many people are relentlessly stupid, refusing to learn from experience and factual reasoning and research that leads to logical conclusions.

Trump is here because of these people.

 

[Kondor3]

"at the time" being the key operative words here.

Indeed.

What is concerning is the deification of your Founders.

Better pseudo-deification, to preserve the best of them, than denigration, and lose that precious 'best'...

The Greatest Good for the Greatest Number...

And your refusal to update your Constitution for the 21st Century.

Our Constitution... Our Choice... we'll do it if-and-when we're ready... outside opinion to the contrary be damned.

The Founders were very much men of their time. Their concerns were commerce, religious freedom and keeping clear of European wars.

Quite true.

Their concerns about whether or not they could "keep" the Republic were borne out by the French Revolution which lead to the rise of Napoleon.

Quite true.

After the American experience of the 2017-2021 time frame, I now have some insight into how 1932 Germany happened.

But their time is long gone, and your Constitution needs to reflect the needs of your country NOW, not 300 years ago.

For the most part, the Constitution still works, and I doubt America wants to push the Reset Button on its 240 year-old Basic Law.

No... amendments should do the trick.

Perhaps a ConCon could focus upon needed changes rather than the less artful and nihilistic wipe-and-re-do.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

We don't need to replicate any errors of the Founders, like MAGA wants.

 

[sparky]

The last thing on earth they wanted was a large Federal Govt. That is why they Enumerated its power.

Which worked up to the point where they all became a minions of big brother looking for control


~S~

 

[Dragonlady]

I agree. Trumpism is about Trump, not our country.
I agree with the need for a socialogic examination of how all this happened.
What has driven so many people to buy into the con and lies of Trump. They are, obviously, desperate and grabbing for straws but why.

If Trumopism wasn’t about your country, he would NEVER have been elected. Trump was always the inevitable outcome of a white national Republican agenda which started under Reagan.

Indeed.

Better pseudo-deification, to preserve the best of them, than denigration, and lose that precious 'best'...

The Greatest Good for the Greatest Number...

Our Constitution... Our Choice... we'll do it if-and-when we're ready... outside opinion to the contrary be damned.

Quite true.

Quite true.

After the American experience of the 2017-2021 time frame, I now have some insight into how 1932 Germany happened.

For the most part, the Constitution still works, and I doubt America wants to push the Reset Button on its 240 year-old Basic Law.

No... amendments should do the trick.

Perhaps a ConCon could focus upon needed changes rather than the less artful and nihilistic wipe-and-re-do.

I understand your reluctance in terms of throwing the baby out with the bathwater by rewriting the Constitution, but as you agreed, the Founders and their Constitution were both very much a reflection of their time, and times have certainly changed, as has the country.

Your Constitution isn't workinng at all. If it were, you wouldn't be in the mess you're in now, on the brink of a second Civil War, or in the middle of a cold one. You wouldn't have so much problem trying to re-interpret the Constitution for the 21st Century.

Every time there's a Constitutional question raised at the SC, everyone ties themselves into a pretzel trying to determine what the Founders intended.

If you want to continue to go forward hobbled by a Constitution which was intended as the framework for a non-military agrarian coastal nation of under 5 million people, and which half of the Country misinterprets at every turn, by all means continue.

Canada has certainly benefitted economically from the chaos and instability Americans are unwilling or unable to solve. Your country is already losing investment and your balance of trade is steadily declining because the world no longer trusts you not to descend into further political chaos.

So yes, stay on the road you're on. It's working so well for you.

 

[CowboyTed]

Funny how you think you have the moral authority to judge people who built this country more than 200 years before you ever existed. Standards are much different today than they were then. But the country they built allows you to be an asshole on the internet today.

.

Sorry but that is utter bullshit...

Freedoms today exist because people today want those freedoms... Trump has at time clearly attacked those freedoms and the people voted to remove him from office... They didn't ask those 200 year old guys to sort it...

Mind you the 200 year old guys did say that you have to be vigilent of a Trump type trying to take over the Government...