Are we losing our humanity?

[beagle9]

I don't blame them for putting up spikes. They have to do something. It's private property, the building owns it. They can do what they want.

There really is no solution to housing the homeless. Many cities have tried and failed. We tried and failed in this country. San Francisco went above and beyond reasonable efforts to house the homeless. Everything failed.

Is it that the homeless are unable to read or interpret signage for some reason ? I mean how come they can't go to where it is designated that they go if they are homeless and struggling like they supposedly are ? I mean it is a security issue for many really, as no one wants strangers hanging around in their communities or on the streets like this, because it opens the door to security issues that can put the children in danger or the adults in danger as well. It's not the homeless person that is always the one to worry about, but it's more about the bad person wanting to establish a situation that allows him to exploit the position in which is created. It causes people to put their guard down eventually, and that's when the wolf comes in to exploit the situation as always.

 

[jasonnfree]

No good deed goes unpunished is more true today than ever.

Another angle in this debate is that more and more people expect the government to do the humanitarian thing. Take the poster that wants to talk about food stamps and school lunches. Ok then if you are spending so much of my money on that then I can spend time thinking about other things. So socialism leads to less individual humanitarianism, it disconnects us from thinking about it because govt is taking care of this. Socialism breaks down the inter connectivity and the conscious caring among people because it assigns that obligation to govt. I. E. Another reason it is bad for us.

As a tangent to the caring part in this thread, which has until recently turned out to be a good one, let me vent about young people asking for money for worthy causes. Living in a small town you will find that anytime the cheerleaders, the class trip, uniforms for the volleyball team, summer programs for athletes, church activities, and on and on want money the first place they go to is the local businesses. We have become swamped with so many requests, most all worthy, that there is no way we can give to any of them. The constant drumbeat for money is verwhelming and the costs of all of these activities now is off the charts. 3000 for a class trip per person is insane, especially for for a poor family in this area. My point is just that while you want to help the requests for donations are unlimited and the ability to contribute is very limited.

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Yes there are people who will not accept a roof over their heads or a clean apartment. I know of at least one who left all that charity to go back out on the street.

I consider myself a charitable person but I am not blindly charitable.

Take the case of all these children that have just crossed our southern border. Would luddly consider it inhumane to send all these kids back, will she consider how inhumane it is to encourage these children to come here in the first place, especially when this is an artificial creation. Does being humane mean world welfare led by the us until there is no more money to hand out. What would it mean to be humane then? So what is the cutoff point?

Yes to beaucoup characters that panhandle for a living. While I have seen many filthy homeless people I have not seen any starving.

I think another aspect that people miss is that being homeless is its own community, just as USMB, gaming, or the bridge site is. Everyone is searching for a place to belong and many of the homeless are proud of knowing how to work certain areas, who is most likely to give you the most food, where the best sleeping spots are, or where the cheapest booze is being sold.

In short, the best way to help your fellow man or woman is to keep it local. Tend to the people you know personally or your friends know . Charity begins at home.

Far more than merely "inhumane", I would consider it criminal to send children back to sex traffickers and political criminals.

Why are some so eager that we go back to Iraq to kill and maim more - even though we don't even take care of the vets, going back to the Korean war, we already have? They want more killing in Iraq and more debt at home but they won't save a few kids from sex traffickers and political violence.

As for the spikes - In this question, it doesn't matter why a person is homeless. Why are some so "inhumane" that they want them to be even more miserable than they already are?

 

[FA_Q2]

Yes there are people who will not accept a roof over their heads or a clean apartment. I know of at least one who left all that charity to go back out on the street.

I consider myself a charitable person but I am not blindly charitable.

Take the case of all these children that have just crossed our southern border. Would luddly consider it inhumane to send all these kids back, will she consider how inhumane it is to encourage these children to come here in the first place, especially when this is an artificial creation. Does being humane mean world welfare led by the us until there is no more money to hand out. What would it mean to be humane then? So what is the cutoff point?

Yes to beaucoup characters that panhandle for a living. While I have seen many filthy homeless people I have not seen any starving.

I think another aspect that people miss is that being homeless is its own community, just as USMB, gaming, or the bridge site is. Everyone is searching for a place to belong and many of the homeless are proud of knowing how to work certain areas, who is most likely to give you the most food, where the best sleeping spots are, or where the cheapest booze is being sold.

In short, the best way to help your fellow man or woman is to keep it local. Tend to the people you know personally or your friends know . Charity begins at home.

Far more than merely "inhumane", I would consider it criminal to send children back to sex traffickers and political criminals.

Why are some so eager that we go back to Iraq to kill and maim more - even though we don't even take care of the vets, going back to the Korean war, we already have? They want more killing in Iraq and more debt at home but they won't save a few kids from sex traffickers and political violence.

As for the spikes - In this question, it doesn't matter why a person is homeless. Why are some so "inhumane" that they want them to be even more miserable than they already are?

Falsehood. No one wants them to be more miserable than they are.

 

[alan1]

no we liberals believe that we should all pay ... by opening mental institution for the mentally ill ... that we should open homes for the homeless to help them get back on their feet ... by educating them in a job that they would like to do ... educate someone with what they enjoy doing and they will work for life ... put them in a job that they hate they will quit as we all do ... but to say "He believes that charity starts in the pocket of his neighbor" is uneducated thinking ...

What is the name of the charitable organization that you have started to accomplish said goals?

thats the problem here ... everybody hates to see crazies laying out side of their building or favorite place they go to... it amazes me how republicans think... for many years prior to 1980 we had mental institutions ...you hardly ever saw any people lying down on a side rambling on incoherently until after 1980... now its the norm ... now you expect us to start a charity to help these crazies on the street ... hows that been working for us so far??? but when they start killing people you on the right start saying we need more guns to take care of this problem... we never had this problem prior to 1980 of crazies wondering the streets... how you can say leave it up to the charities to take care of them ... or start a charity to take care of them ...tells me more and more that the republican party hasn't any Idea of what humanity is...tells me more and more that i want no part of the republican party ... they are the most selfish human beings on this planet to date ...

Let me tell you this..................
Every time my taxes go up, my charitable contributions go down. Every time my taxes go down, my charitable contributions go up. I choose to not let the government decide what my "charity" should be. There is no provision in the US Constitution to provide charity to anybody or any organization. And the government has proved itself to be really crappy (financially) at charity.

I prefer to pick and choose my own charity and I prefer that same choice for you. I would appreciate the same from you.

P.S.
I'm not a Republican.

 

[alan1]

One word:

Euthanasia

I don't know any youth in Asia.

 

[Andylusion]

An anonymous resident of the residential complex told the Telegraph, that “there was a homeless man asleep there about six weeks ago. ‘Then about two weeks ago all of a sudden studs were put up outside. I presume it is to deter homeless people from sleeping there.”

However, London resident Nathan FitzPatrick tweeted after talking to locals outside the building that only one person could confirm homeless were sleeping there – and that was a woman and a child.

“It is a scandal that anyone should sleep on the streets in 21st century Britain. Yet over the last three years rough sleeping has risen steeply across the country and by a massive 75% in London. Behind these numbers are real people struggling with a lack of housing, cuts to benefits and cuts to homelessness services to help them rebuild their lives,” said Katharine Sacks-Jones, head of policy and campaigns at Crisis.

Local Londoners went to investigate and confirm the installation of spikes on Southwark Bridge Road. What is ironic is that part of the building where metal needles were installed is the office of the British School of Osteopathy – an alternative medicine school focused on healing through moving, stretching and massaging a person’s muscles and joints.

More at the link.

This is such a horrifying thing - that we humans could do this to each other. Instead of helping our fellow man, we want to make sure we don't have to look at him.

There are empty buildings every where but we can't use them because all we care about is money.

Gawd damn but that is just sad. Beyond sad.

How many times a day do you have to step over homeless people to do what you need to do in your daily life?

How many times a day do you have people asking you for money?

How many times have you had a 'homeless' person act in a semi-threatening way towards you when you said you didn't have any money?

I'm just wondering.

 

[alan1]

An anonymous resident of the residential complex told the Telegraph, that “there was a homeless man asleep there about six weeks ago. ‘Then about two weeks ago all of a sudden studs were put up outside. I presume it is to deter homeless people from sleeping there.”

However, London resident Nathan FitzPatrick tweeted after talking to locals outside the building that only one person could confirm homeless were sleeping there – and that was a woman and a child.

“It is a scandal that anyone should sleep on the streets in 21st century Britain. Yet over the last three years rough sleeping has risen steeply across the country and by a massive 75% in London. Behind these numbers are real people struggling with a lack of housing, cuts to benefits and cuts to homelessness services to help them rebuild their lives,” said Katharine Sacks-Jones, head of policy and campaigns at Crisis.

Local Londoners went to investigate and confirm the installation of spikes on Southwark Bridge Road. What is ironic is that part of the building where metal needles were installed is the office of the British School of Osteopathy – an alternative medicine school focused on healing through moving, stretching and massaging a person’s muscles and joints.

More at the link.

This is such a horrifying thing - that we humans could do this to each other. Instead of helping our fellow man, we want to make sure we don't have to look at him.

There are empty buildings every where but we can't use them because all we care about is money.

Gawd damn but that is just sad. Beyond sad.

How many times a day do you have to step over homeless people to do what you need to do in your daily life?

How many times a day do you have people asking you for money?

How many times have you had a 'homeless' person act in a semi-threatening way towards you when you said you didn't have any money?

I'm just wondering.

How the heck am I supposed to know somebody is homeless?
I could stand on a street corner with a cardboard sign stating that I am a homeless (false) vet (true).
Their cardboard sign doesn't prove that they are homeless.

 

[Andylusion]

More at the link.

This is such a horrifying thing - that we humans could do this to each other. Instead of helping our fellow man, we want to make sure we don't have to look at him.

There are empty buildings every where but we can't use them because all we care about is money.

Gawd damn but that is just sad. Beyond sad.

How many times a day do you have to step over homeless people to do what you need to do in your daily life?

How many times a day do you have people asking you for money?

How many times have you had a 'homeless' person act in a semi-threatening way towards you when you said you didn't have any money?

I'm just wondering.

How the heck am I supposed to know somebody is homeless?
I could stand on a street corner with a cardboard sign stating that I am a homeless (false) vet (true).
Their cardboard sign doesn't prove that they are homeless.

Immaterial. Politics isn't about truth. If a person has a sign saying he's homeless and needs food, he is automatically morally superior, and you are obligated to have pity and sympathy for his situation.

 

[S.J.]

How many times a day do you have to step over homeless people to do what you need to do in your daily life?

How many times a day do you have people asking you for money?

How many times have you had a 'homeless' person act in a semi-threatening way towards you when you said you didn't have any money?

I'm just wondering.

How the heck am I supposed to know somebody is homeless?
I could stand on a street corner with a cardboard sign stating that I am a homeless (false) vet (true).
Their cardboard sign doesn't prove that they are homeless.

Immaterial. Politics isn't about truth. If a person has a sign saying he's homeless and needs food, he is automatically morally superior, and you are obligated to have pity and sympathy for his situation.

And the same "compassionate" people who try to make you feel guilty for not giving them your hard-earned money wouldn't give them anything themselves or have anything to do with them.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Activists Pour Concrete Over Spikes Meant to Deter Street Sleeping | Alternet

In response to the inhumane construction, activists called the London Black Revolutionaries took to pouring concrete over the spikes outside of Tesco, leaving signs behind that read “Homes Not Spikes.”

“We wanted to link the political objection to the anti-homeless spikes to an actual message of attempting to get them removed,” the activists told Vice.

An online petition demanding property managers and London Mayor Boris Johnson remove the spikes garnered nearly 130,000 signatures. Harriet Wells, the author of the petition, wrote:

As a mental health nurse in London I have all too often seen the result of isolating and mistreating our city's homeless. We should be offering practical and emotional support to help the most vulnerable to get back on their feet. We should not be sending them the message that they are pests that need to be warded off.

 

[beagle9]

How the heck am I supposed to know somebody is homeless?
I could stand on a street corner with a cardboard sign stating that I am a homeless (false) vet (true).
Their cardboard sign doesn't prove that they are homeless.

Immaterial. Politics isn't about truth. If a person has a sign saying he's homeless and needs food, he is automatically morally superior, and you are obligated to have pity and sympathy for his situation.

And the same "compassionate" people who try to make you feel guilty for not giving them your hard-earned money wouldn't give them anything themselves or have anything to do with them.

No, because they would rather prompt the government to give them your money while they in turn keep theirs held back. They are the worlds best at this game, and if they start running out of poor people, then they will make sure they create some more quickly (wide open southern border), because they need them badly in order to make them look compassionate and caring even if they are not. They done learned this game good, and it fools the best of them out there who are young and naive enough to buy into it all.

The rich were blind sided with it all seemingly, and it happened all at once when Obama up the game on them. I think they were blinded because their money had them blinded by the greed in which they had acquired these days, and so they became complacent while the floor was being twiddled out from under them by a massive rebellion that had arisen against their greed. The bad thing is, is that there has been lots of truly earned and earnest rich people out there in society, but they were grouped in with the rest in order to get after all the wealth combined, as of course it makes far more of it to go after when doing it in this way.

 

[Andylusion]

How the heck am I supposed to know somebody is homeless?
I could stand on a street corner with a cardboard sign stating that I am a homeless (false) vet (true).
Their cardboard sign doesn't prove that they are homeless.

Immaterial. Politics isn't about truth. If a person has a sign saying he's homeless and needs food, he is automatically morally superior, and you are obligated to have pity and sympathy for his situation.

And the same "compassionate" people who try to make you feel guilty for not giving them your hard-earned money wouldn't give them anything themselves or have anything to do with them.

Well of course! We are also morally superior, simply because we are standing up for the "homeless starving man", by demanding you all give your hard earned money to that man.

Seriously, you people on the right, just don't know how much pure altruistic effort and suffering I have gone through, to fight you right-winger and demand you give that poor homeless starving Vietnam vet, all your money. I can't be expected to give even more to the cause from my own cash. I've already given everything I can, to make you give what you have to him.

I've done my elite part. I've already led the moral crusade. It's up to you to catch up to my standard now. [/sarcasm]

 

[TheJedi]

I think a lot of people in the world and especially this country are losing their humanity. I blame modern politics. Especially right-wing politics.

Here's why:

1. The dehumanization of opposition and groups targeted for second-class citizenship. (LGBTQ, Hispanic immigrant workers, liberals, innocent Muslims in far away lands, the poor, ect.)
2. Extreme polarization through inflammatory political rhetoric creates high levels of animosity and contributes further to dehumanization
3. The most fundamentally religious use the concept of sin as an excuse for hatred
4. The proliferation of propagandist doctrine uses this misinformation to relegate other citizens outside of their core ideology to vermin status

That's the core of it. It is easier to hate people when you do not see them as human. Which is why no one seems to be too outraged when a drone strike kills innocent women and children in Muslim countries because they are....well brown and Muslim and Islam is evil.

I remember seeing people in wheelchairs getting spit on and cursed at by people during the heated healthcare debate. These people would rather see human beings die in the street than to try and find a way to get them help.

We have become a greedy, narcissistic, hyper-individualistic society that is largely based on deception and denial that uses fear and hatred to move their agendas forward. Sadly, I do not se this getting any better. We are not far off from another civil war. The extreme rigth and left are destined to do battle and he moderates in the middle are the ones who are going to get screwed the most by this.

However, there is one group who will benefit greatly from a civil war in the long term. Corporations. They already own our Congress and when this unending feud gets to fever pitch, national martial law will most certainly be declared and we will never come back from that because with martial law, come absolute power and it won't be the government calling the shots, it will be their corporate handlers.

 

[Statistikhengst]

I think a lot of people in the world and especially this country are losing their humanity. I blame modern politics. Especially right-wing politics.

Here's why:

1. The dehumanization of opposition and groups targeted for second-class citizenship. (LGBTQ, Hispanic immigrant workers, liberals, innocent Muslims in far away lands, the poor, ect.)
2. Extreme polarization through inflammatory political rhetoric creates high levels of animosity and contributes further to dehumanization
3. The most fundamentally religious use the concept of sin as an excuse for hatred
4. The proliferation of propagandist doctrine uses this misinformation to relegate other citizens outside of their core ideology to vermin status

That's the core of it. It is easier to hate people when you do not see them as human. Which is why no one seems to be too outraged when a drone strike kills innocent women and children in Muslim countries because they are....well brown and Muslim and Islam is evil.

I remember seeing people in wheelchairs getting spit on and cursed at by people during the heated healthcare debate. These people would rather see human beings die in the street than to try and find a way to get them help.

We have become a greedy, narcissistic, hyper-individualistic society that is largely based on deception and denial that uses fear and hatred to move their agendas forward. Sadly, I do not se this getting any better. We are not far off from another civil war. The extreme rigth and left are destined to do battle and he moderates in the middle are the ones who are going to get screwed the most by this.

However, there is one group who will benefit greatly from a civil war in the long term. Corporations. They already own our Congress and when this unending feud gets to fever pitch, national martial law will most certainly be declared and we will never come back from that because with martial law, come absolute power and it won't be the government calling the shots, it will be their corporate handlers.

Well, that was going along swimmingly until the last sentence...

got any proof that martial law is just around the next corner?

 

[Katzndogz]

People, even the most liberal, are willing to be sympathetic to the homeless, gays, blacks and hispanics as long as they are somewhere else and the sympathetic can complain about how unsympathetic someone else is.

You won't find many homeless on Park Avenue, Beverly Hills or in Hyde Park London. The liberals who live there won't tolerate it. Those same liberals will tell the people in Brooklyn, Culver City and Liverpool how mean and inhuman they are for jot wanting to have their streets taken over.

 

[Andylusion]

I think a lot of people in the world and especially this country are losing their humanity. I blame modern politics. Especially right-wing politics.

Here's why:

1. The dehumanization of opposition and groups targeted for second-class citizenship. (LGBTQ, Hispanic immigrant workers, liberals, innocent Muslims in far away lands, the poor, ect.)
2. Extreme polarization through inflammatory political rhetoric creates high levels of animosity and contributes further to dehumanization
3. The most fundamentally religious use the concept of sin as an excuse for hatred
4. The proliferation of propagandist doctrine uses this misinformation to relegate other citizens outside of their core ideology to vermin status

That's the core of it. It is easier to hate people when you do not see them as human. Which is why no one seems to be too outraged when a drone strike kills innocent women and children in Muslim countries because they are....well brown and Muslim and Islam is evil.

I remember seeing people in wheelchairs getting spit on and cursed at by people during the heated healthcare debate. These people would rather see human beings die in the street than to try and find a way to get them help.

We have become a greedy, narcissistic, hyper-individualistic society that is largely based on deception and denial that uses fear and hatred to move their agendas forward. Sadly, I do not se this getting any better. We are not far off from another civil war. The extreme rigth and left are destined to do battle and he moderates in the middle are the ones who are going to get screwed the most by this.

However, there is one group who will benefit greatly from a civil war in the long term. Corporations. They already own our Congress and when this unending feud gets to fever pitch, national martial law will most certainly be declared and we will never come back from that because with martial law, come absolute power and it won't be the government calling the shots, it will be their corporate handlers.

Well, that was going along swimmingly until the last sentence...

got any proof that martial law is just around the next corner?

I'd cite Katrina, and the after math as proof. Civilization has become a thin veil, that when removed falls apart rather fast.

But unlike the prior nut case, I don't have the mythical 'evil corporation' boogie man to blame.

It's simply a lack of morals and a foundation in something greater than ones self.

And honestly, I don't understand these people.... all of our higher education institutions have been teaching their students for several decades now, that there is no absolute truth, there is no right and wrong, all morals are relative........

... and then bankers live out what they have been taught, and these idiots want to throw them in jail.

The public has been taught by the government funded K-12 education system, that 'well that might be true for you, that might be good for you, that might be wrong to you, but it's not to me'.... and then they go shooting people, and you get pissed off?

The veil of society is it's moral foundation. We've eliminated that foundation, and now you people are complaining civilization is falling? Well... now that's a shocker.

Let's tell everyone they are bunch of monkeys, and they can do whatever they want, live for the moment, and nothing really matters.... then we're shocked we're losing our humanity. Why is this so obvious to me, and apparently not to everyone else?

 

[sameech]

I'd cite Katrina, and the after math as proof. Civilization has become a thin veil, that when removed falls apart rather fast.

But unlike the prior nut case, I don't have the mythical 'evil corporation' boogie man to blame.

It's simply a lack of morals and a foundation in something greater than ones self.

And honestly, I don't understand these people.... all of our higher education institutions have been teaching their students for several decades now, that there is no absolute truth, there is no right and wrong, all morals are relative........

... and then bankers live out what they have been taught, and these idiots want to throw them in jail.

The public has been taught by the government funded K-12 education system, that 'well that might be true for you, that might be good for you, that might be wrong to you, but it's not to me'.... and then they go shooting people, and you get pissed off?

The veil of society is it's moral foundation. We've eliminated that foundation, and now you people are complaining civilization is falling? Well... now that's a shocker.

Let's tell everyone they are bunch of monkeys, and they can do whatever they want, live for the moment, and nothing really matters.... then we're shocked we're losing our humanity. Why is this so obvious to me, and apparently not to everyone else?

You must watch a different news source than me, because I saw civilization launching unprecedented levels of outreach to those affected, including telethons and temporary housing, huge financial assistance, people dangling from helos and paddling in boats to save people and animals, and people are still there today rebuilding.

 

[FA_Q2]

I'd cite Katrina, and the after math as proof. Civilization has become a thin veil, that when removed falls apart rather fast.

But unlike the prior nut case, I don't have the mythical 'evil corporation' boogie man to blame.

It's simply a lack of morals and a foundation in something greater than ones self.

And honestly, I don't understand these people.... all of our higher education institutions have been teaching their students for several decades now, that there is no absolute truth, there is no right and wrong, all morals are relative........

... and then bankers live out what they have been taught, and these idiots want to throw them in jail.

The public has been taught by the government funded K-12 education system, that 'well that might be true for you, that might be good for you, that might be wrong to you, but it's not to me'.... and then they go shooting people, and you get pissed off?

The veil of society is it's moral foundation. We've eliminated that foundation, and now you people are complaining civilization is falling? Well... now that's a shocker.

Let's tell everyone they are bunch of monkeys, and they can do whatever they want, live for the moment, and nothing really matters.... then we're shocked we're losing our humanity. Why is this so obvious to me, and apparently not to everyone else?

You must watch a different news source than me, because I saw civilization launching unprecedented levels of outreach to those affected, including telethons and temporary housing, huge financial assistance, people dangling from helos and paddling in boats to save people and animals, and people are still there today rebuilding.

Its the same news source but different preconceived notions. Some just see things negatively without realizing the amazing lengths that humanity in general has gone through to take care of the most disadvantaged and helpless among us. Some see only evil.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Let me take care of Jedi first. The myth that you propagate that right wingers are the most hateful people is just not true, it is a political creation meant to stifle any serious debate of issues by the so called more tolerant liberals.. I don't hate lgbt people at all but they are nota mainstream group. Actually they would not even be in my conversation unless someone else brought it up. I would not even think about it, but when I do I subscribe to the theory that in the main these people cannot deal with society as it is constructed, and therefore they acquire a learned kind of behavior that they think allows them to cope. There is scientific evidence for this as seen in other posts so it is not coming from my hateful heart. But what you would deny me is the ability to say that my daughter is not going to share a restroom with some guy who at this point in time wants to be a girl. Inotherwords, you justify shoving a different lifestyle down my throat not by the merit of that lifestyle but by the fact that protests of certain aspects of that lifestyle constitute hate which is much worse than the lifestyle.

I suspect I have dealt with a whole lot more Hispanic immigrants than you have. There is no hate involved but there is reality that lows killed immigrants have a different set of skills and abilities, only because of their backgrounds, than most Americans. That doesn't make them better or worse, but if you think they are hated by conservatives like me you are again wrong. Might it be that some democratic voters displaced by these immigrants have some hard feelings. Yep

Muslims killed by drones. Yeah, none of which authorized by right wingers in the last six years, so take your hate deal up with Obama.

Extreme polarization due to political rhetoric. Right! War on women., hell just your post is example enough because the left has learned that any claim no matter how baseless is useful in persuading hordes of illiterate voters that republicans and conservatives are uncaring robots. The left has cornered the market on hate speech and the examples are legion.

A true Christian sees the concept of sin as a reason to pity the offender not hate them. And there is no way you can consider people who believe in the preservation of life as haters.

Your fourth point is just the platform and strategy of the Democratic Party.

I have never seen people spitting on others in wheelchairs. If I had I would have intervened. Yes we are more polarized but a post like yours with blanket condemnations increases that polarization and does not lessen it. You are a lot more toned down than some of the worst offenders, and I appreciate that. But the constant food fights about who is more humane are endless and boring and do not move the ball forward or deserve a lot of attention.