Are Tariffs A Good Idea?

[Concerned American]

Close enough if you ask me. Who gets the revenue from a tariff? The gov't. Who ultimately pays the higher price for the tariffed item? US consumers. Also known as taxpayers. The end result is the same.





Sure. I used to buy the tariffed product for less than the US domestic product, but now I don't have that choice. Now I gotta pay more for whichever one I chose, or I can go without, right? That's a cavalier attitude there, my friend. And you know what? The God Damned trade imbalance didn't change. Trump's tariffs during his 1st term didn't reduce that imbalance, in fact it went up. And when China retaliated by raising tariffs on our soybeans, Trump had to subsidize that industry to the tune of around $23 billion.

And it would have been worse had the tariffs not been put in place. It is really difficult to not buy Chinese, but it can be done. Tariffs would not be needed if Americans would buy American without goading by the gov't. The added benefit of tariffs is making US mfg. more attractive to mfrs. who have gone offshore.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Nasdaq down 560 points or 3%.

 

[jc456]

You do not understand tariff! Start over.

what happens when unions do a collective agreement? let's say UPS, when their salaries increase, do the prices go up to ship products?

 

[Concerned American]

They can purchase American goods for resale. That is the point of tariffs. Make the imported products play on a level playing field.

I am aware. I was responding to your point that Lincoln is an American company. I was just pointing out that many of the products that they sell are coming from China.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What do you think happens? There may be a contracted price between the seller and the importer, fine. But when the goofs come in, the importer pays the tariff to the US Treasury. Applied on that contracted price. it raises the landed cost for those goods. And that increases snowballs all the way to the consumer.

Assume a small supply chain. producer, importer, distributer, retail, consumer. to make a profit, every step adds 25% to their cost.
importer buys for $100, sells to distributer for $125.
Distributer adds 25%, sells to retailer for $156.25
Retailer buys adds $25%, sells to consumer for $195.31.

Now in comes a 25% tariff.
Importer buys for $100, pays $25 tariff. His cost is now $125. Sells to distributer for $156.25
Distributer adds 25%, sells to retailer for $195.31
Retailer adds 25%, sells to consumer for $244.14

The consumer nows pays an additional $48.82.

Or you just buy an American product and never have to worry about the tariffs!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I am aware. I was responding to your point that Lincoln is an American company. I was just pointing out that many of the products that they sell are coming from China.

Would that not be their problem?

My father worked almost his entire life at GE making washers and dryers. After he retired, the factories were sold to Haier so they could build their machines in the US. Why did they do this? Tariffs, transportations costs, and name recognition are the answer. They are no longer my father's GE. A friend of mine still works in that very same factory but his ultimate boss is in China.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

what happens when unions do a collective agreement? let's say UPS, when their salaries increase, do the prices go up to ship products?

They will either accept it or suffer the consequences. You realize how impotent unions are these days in smaller industries.

 

[jc456]

They will either accept it or suffer the consequences. You realize how impotent unions are these days in smaller industries.

I heard Costco gave hourly employees a nice increase and nothing to union. I love what they did.

MSN

 

[Edgetho]

And it would have been worse had the tariffs not been put in place. It is really difficult to not buy Chinese, but it can be done. Tariffs would not be needed if Americans would buy American without goading by the gov't. The added benefit of tariffs is making US mfg. more attractive to mfrs. who have gone offshore.

A lot of the reason there is so much Chinese merchandise being sold everywhere for so cheap is our (America's) own fault.

Topping the list is, of course, Unions. They want everybody to kiss their ass, especially consumers. They'll even put a Company out of business and its workers in the Unemployment Line out of pure spite (Hostess comes to mind). They've done it hundreds of times.

Businesses themselves are a big reason. Too many were stuck in the past. Too rigid, too uncompromising, too arrogant.

Yu can't blame the consumer for buying better products at lower prices. And too many times, the Chinese run the competition out of business and you're left with just them. And you'll take what they give you. And like it.

I had the opportunity to go to China as a production specialist back in the day. It was all explained to me, how they worked. It was pure genius.

But I had already been in Asia before and I didn't dislike it or anything like that. I was just 'over it'.

Also had the chance to ride the Oil Well circuit back in the 70's. No thanks.

Just some Bona Fides.

Tariffs aren't going to hurt anything for very long. If OMB puts a 25% Tariff on rubber duckies, the Chinese will eat 10% of it by lowering his cost, the middle man will eat another 5 - 10% and the consumer might end up paying an extra 5 - 10%. Tops.

Plus, it gives American Manufacturers the opportunity to compete and maybe bring some jobs to the Country. Be a nice change. Instead of Make-Work, goobermint jobs.

Tariffs are a double-edged sword but they're not as bad as many think

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I heard Costco gave hourly employees a nice increase and nothing to union. I love what they did.

MSN

Unions have their place, but most of the time they destroy companies with unrealistic demands.

 

[jc456]

Unions have their place, but most of the time they destroy companies with unrealistic demands.

which does what? causes prices to rise. Yet no fking demofk in here said shit while that was happening every year? fk em, bring on the tariffs baby.

 

[task0778]

And it would have been worse had the tariffs not been put in place.

You don't know if that is true or not.

It is really difficult to not buy Chinese, but it can be done.

Depends on your income level. It's harder for those at the bottom of the income ladder.

Tariffs would not be needed if Americans would buy American without goading by the gov't.

Sure, all they have to do is pay more for the same thing they can get cheaper that was imported. I'm not sure you understand the implications here, you are raising the cost of living for those who can afford it the least. They are forced to buy less stuff for their money, and you don't care.

The added benefit of tariffs is making US mfg. more attractive to mfrs. who have gone offshore.

Granted, although I do not believe that the Trump tariffs during his 1st term made any difference at all. Why? Cuz tariffs can change or disappear altogether when the next president takes over. I will say this, Honda announced they will build a plant in Indiana to make their new hybrid car to avoid the Trump tariff on stuff coming out of Mexico. So, there is an upside, but nobody talks about the downside; what happens when the foreign countries reciprocate? Somebody loses too.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

which does what? causes prices to rise. Yet no fking demofk in here said shit while that was happening every year? fk em, bring on the tariffs baby.

Just clarifying your comments. People bitch about teacher's unions all the time not realizing that they have no ability to strike for higher wages. The teachers get whatever the school board offers, take it or leave it. You have the option to quit if you don't like it.

 

[jc456]

Just clarifying your comments. People bitch about teacher's unions all the time not realizing that they have no ability to strike for higher wages. The teachers get whatever the school board offers, take it or leave it. You have the option to quit if you don't like it.

Yet our price per student still increased

 

[Edgetho]

which does what? causes prices to rise. Yet no fking demofk in here said shit while that was happening every year? fk em, bring on the tariffs baby.

Unions can be really good in that the Company only has to deal with one entity instead of a quarter million individuals.

But too many American Unions just honestly could not give a shit less about their members. At all.

It seems, any more, once you get a Union, it shoves the workers aside and sez, "You'll deal with us. we're all that matters." And they ain't shitting around. They mean it.

If a worker has an idea to cut costs and save money, it has to go through the Union first. Employees are not allowed to talk with management under any circumstances except through the Union.

Many years ago (Many), I was in Ohio on a business trip and I recall that while the Non-Workers at the Maryville Honda Plant were giving the Company many, many cost-cutting ideas and rolling Hondas off the line like crazy, Generic Motors was on strike. I think it was over a Holiday. Pretty sure.

I am old enough to remember when Honda, Toyota, et al, were mocked as 'Rice Burners' and their quality was demeaned, their looks, their power, yada-yada-yada.

Here's a look at today --

Toyota Motor Corp -- Market Capitalization ~ $288 BILLION

Generic Motors -- MIGHTY GM!! The biggest company on the Planet back in the day

Market Cap GM ~ $47 Billion

Plus, Generic Motors ran off with 20 BILLION of American Taxpayer dollars! That they never paid back. Fact. And they still make SHIT.

I remember watching with nausea a NAgmAR race when Generic Motors had ZERO net worth, was using 100% Taxpayer dollars but had a Billion dollar NASCAR budget.

Whatev FYI, The Bastard Son of Frank Marshall Davis didn't bail out Generic Motors, he bailed out the UAW. That is simply fact. Ford didn't need any money but was forced to take 6 Bn. Chrysler was another story. They got jacked-around by Daimler, bigly. And under Stellantis, are doing well

And gm still can't sniff a Le Mans Championship. Turn left

 

[jc456]

Unions can be really good in that the Company only has to deal with one entity instead of a quarter million individuals.

But too many American Unions just honestly could not give a shit less about their members. At all.

It seems, any more, once you get a Union, it shoves the workers aside and sez, "You'll deal with us. we're all that matters." And they ain't shitting around. They mean it.

If a worker has an idea to cut costs and save money, it has to go through the Union first. Employees are not allowed to talk with management under any circumstances except through the Union.

Many years ago (Many), I was in Ohio on a business trip and I recall that while the Non-Workers at the Maryville Honda Plant were giving the Company many, many cost-cutting ideas and rolling Hondas off the line like crazy, Generic Motors was on strike. I think it was over a Holiday. Pretty sure.

I am old enough to remember when Honda, Toyota, et al, were mocked as 'Rice Burners' and their quality was demeaned, their looks, their power, yada-yada-yada.

Here's a look at today --

Toyota Motor Corp -- Market Capitalization ~ $288 BILLION

Generic Motors -- MIGHTY GM!! The biggest company on the Planet back in the day

Market Cap GM ~ $47 Billion

Plus, Generic Motors ran off with 20 BILLION of American Taxpayer dollars! That they never paid back. Fact. And they still make SHIT.

I remember watching with nausea a NAgmAR race when Generic Motors had ZERO net worth, was using 100% Taxpayer dollars but had a Billion dollar NASCAR budget.

Whatev FYI, The Bastard Son of Frank Marshall Davis didn't bail out Generic Motors, he bailed out the UAW. That is simply fact. Ford didn't need any money but was forced to take 6 Bn. Chrysler was another story. They got jacked-around by Daimler, bigly. And under Stellantis, are doing well

And gm still can't sniff a Le Mans Championship. Turn left

Unions don’t reward quality workers

 

[Edgetho]

Just clarifying your comments. People bitch about teacher's unions all the time not realizing that they have no ability to strike for higher wages. The teachers get whatever the school board offers, take it or leave it. You have the option to quit if you don't like it.

Our entire K-12 edumucashun system needs to be torn down. It sucks ass. Bigly.

People who care about their kids, and can afford it, send them to private schools. We live in Florida, which has the highest rated school system in the Country, and my boy sends his kid to a Private School.

$23k a year.

On top of $4,500 a year in property taxes.

Public Education is the biggest, most disgraceful scam going right now. It exists to enrich the grifters in the system. Has nothing to do with educating our children. Nothing. Baby-Sitters, at best.

At least Florida gives out vouchers. Around $8k...??

Funny thing, Ha-freaking-Ha, but when the voucher system was announced, the cost of the school went up $8k.

I can hardly stand it

 

[Edgetho]

Unions don’t reward quality workers

No. In fact, when I was young and strong-like-bull, I worked as a Mason's Tender. That's work, guys.

But if we were working a Union Job, they'd come around and bitch the Masons out of they were putting down (placing) more than 250 Block a day. They said we were 'killing the job.

I believe in the concept of Unions, but they never seem to live up to the standard

 

[candycorn]

They can purchase American goods for resale. That is the point of tariffs. Make the imported products play on a level playing field.

And that science ignores the first rule of business...make a profit. Most companies are doing great with low unemployment, stock prices throug the roof, executive bonuses. The tariffs have given the manufacturers an opportunity to raise their prices to stay just a few percentage points more expensive than the tariffed brands.

I know you’ll have something snide to say of course but I will ask you...why would they not take advantage of the market and charge more.

Here is just one example of a tape measure. The one on the left was probably made in China. The one on the right was definitely made in Indiana. After 9 years of tariffs...the one on the left should cost a lot more than the one on the right. It doesnt. Why? The guys at Lufkin price their product competitively...they get little benefit from selling cheaper. Otherwise, they’d be doing it.

 

[jc456]

No. In fact, when I was young and strong-like-bull, I worked as a Mason's Tender. That's work, guys.

But if we were working a Union Job, they'd come around and bitch the Masons out of they were putting down (placing) more than 250 Block a day. They said we were 'killing the job.

I believe in the concept of Unions, but they never seem to live up to the standard

Unions are only for the administrative piece