Are Some Cultures Superior to Others?

[LilOlLady]

Africa's Contribution To Contemporary Western Civilization

CONCLUSION

From the history of four of Africa's great empires, it can be clearly seen that Africa and Africans have contributed to what we now consider Western Civilization). All along the West African coast, Africans had developed various systems of government, from the extended family to regional empires and the Village State. Many of them consisting of those attributes of a modern state (i.e., armies, courts, etc.). According to Melville J. Herskovits, a known anthropologist, "of the areas inhabited by non-literate people, Africa exhibits the great incidence of complex governmental structures. Not even the kingdom of Peru and Mexico could mobilize resources and concentrate power more effectively than could some of these African monarchies, which are more to be compared with Europe of the middle ages then referred to the common conception of the 'primitive' state."

From the mystery schools of Egypt to the University of Sankore and other intellectual centers in Timbuktu and Jenne, scholars throughout the Western world came to Africa in search of knowledge and wisdom. Leo Africanus, a Christianized moor, informed us that at the time, "In Timbuktu there are numerous judges, doctors, clerics, all receiving good salaries from the king. He pays great respect to men of learning. There is a big import from Barbary. More profit is made from the book trade than from any other line of business." The learning centers in Timbuktu had large and valuable collections of manuscripts in several languages, including Greek and Latin.

Africa's Contribution To Contemporarily Western Civilization

 

[francoHFW]

Well, Jared Diamond says the most important thing is the hand a society has been dealt- climate, geography, plants, animals, and national resources. Religion, intelligence- not so much lol...give it up...

 

[Publius1787]

They Came Before Columbus: The African Presence in Ancient America (Journal of African Civilizations)

They Came Before Columbus reveals a compelling, dramatic, and superbly detailed documentation of the presence and legacy of Africans in ancient America. Examining navigation and shipbuilding; cultural analogies between Native Americans and Africans; the transportation of plants, animals, and textiles between the continents; and the diaries, journals, and oral accounts of the explorers themselves, Ivan Van Sertima builds a pyramid of evidence to support his claim of an African presence in the New World centuries before Columbus. Combining impressive scholarship with a novelist’s gift for storytelling, Van Sertima re-creates some of the most powerful scenes of human history: the launching of the great ships of Mali in 1310 (two hundred master boats and two hundred supply boats), the sea expedition of the Mandingo king in 1311, and many

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0812968174/?tag=usmb-20

The ignorant feeding the ignorant. This is why we need to get rid of affirmative action. "Scholars" like Ivan van Sertima somehow get their token professorship by no virtue other than the university wants to prove that it isn't racist. Then they come out with junk like this as every professional in the field laughs in their faces.

Ivan van Sertima - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Van Sertima's work has been strongly criticized by academics, who describe his claims to be ill-founded and false. Van Sertima's Journal of African Civilizations was not considered for inclusion in Journals of the Century.[7] In 1997 academics in a Journal of Current Anthropology article criticized in detail many elements of They Came Before Columbus (1976).[2] Except for a brief mention, the book had not previously been reviewed in an academic journal. The researchers wrote a systematic rebuttal of Van Sertima's claims, stating that Van Sertima's "proposal was without foundation" in claiming African diffusion as responsible for prehistoric Olmec culture (in present-day Mexico). They noted that no "genuine African artifact had been found in a controlled archaeological excavation in the New World." They noted that Olmec stone heads were carved hundreds of years prior to the claimed contact and only superficially appear to be African; the Nubians whom Van Sertima had claimed as their originators do not resemble these "portraits".[2] They further noted that in the 1980s, Van Sertima had changed his timeline of African influence, suggesting that Africans made their way to the New World in the 10th century B.C., to account for more recent independent scholarship in the dating of Olmec culture.[2]

They further called "fallacious" his claims that Africans had diffused the practices of pyramid building and mummification, and noted the independent rise of these in the Americas. Additionally, they wrote that Van Sertima "diminishe[d] the real achievements of Native American culture" by his claims of African origin for them.[2]

Van Sertima wrote a response to be included in the article (as is standard academic practice) but withdrew it. The journal required that reprints must include the entire article and would have had to include the original authors' response (written but not published) to his response.[2] Instead, Van Sertima replied to his critics in his journal volume published as Early America Revisited (1998).[8]

In a New York Times 1977 review of Van Sertima's 1976 They Came Before Columbus, the archaeologist Glyn Daniel labeled Van Sertima's work as "ignorant rubbish", and concluded that the works of Van Sertima, and Barry Fell, whom he was also reviewing, "give us badly argued theories based on fantasies". In response to Daniel's review Clarence Weiant, who had worked as an assistant archaeologist specializing in ceramics at Tres Zapotes and later pursued a career as a chiropractor, wrote a letter to the New York Times supporting Van Sertima's work. Weiant wrote “Van Sertima's work is a summary of six or seven years of meticulous research based upon archaeology, egyptology, African history, oceanography, astronomy, botany, rare Arabic and Chinese manuscripts, the letters and journals of early American explorers, and the observations of physical anthropologists...As one who has been immersed in Mexican archaeology for some forty years, and who participated in the excavation of the first giant heads, I must confess, I am thoroughly convinced of the soundness of Van Sertima’s conclusions.”[9][n 2]

In 1981 Dean R. Snow, a professor of anthropology, wrote that Van Sertima "uses the now familiar technique of stringing together bits of carefully selected evidence, each surgically removed from the context that would give it a rational explanation". Snow continued, "The findings of professional archaeologists and physical anthropologists are misrepresented so that they seem to support the [Van Sertima] hypothesis".[11]

 

[LilOlLady]

I disagree with much of what you said. Environmental factors have always been the greatest determinant of human advancement. Nevertheless, culture, values, and ingenuity do have a significant effect.

Guns,Germs and Steel - Jared Diamond - YouTube

Dude, I'm not watching two hours of bullshit when I know some cultures are way smarter than others. Iran would of had the bomb long ago if they had the intelligence! There are many groups of people who don't eat enough protein for normal brain development - they are less capable of advancement.

I guess you believe all groups of people are of equal intelligence, or that it has no bearing on advancement Instead of starting a thread with an interrogative, why don't you make a proclamation, and support it cogently; without documentary, and let the participants argue your position?

Do black people like the ghetto?

I both agreed with you and disagreed with you. However I have better perspective because I took the time to educate myself on all of the arguments available. If you have not seen this video, or more preferably, read the book that this video stems from, then you are nowhere in the same arena as I in determining what we can attribute to culture and what we can attribute to environment.

I am not a cultural relativist. I do believe that some cultures are superior to others. But your wide brushstrokes are so ignorantly devised that it is almost embarrassing watching you make them. If you want to argue a point you first must educate yourself on the information available. Choosing not to, and yet, insisting you are right, is more of a show of ignorance than anything else.

I have made a number of threads a number of ways. I have often been told that I bias a poll by commenting in the op. You share the opposite view. I am going to take flack no matter what I do or how I do it. Now that you are no longer ignorant of this fact, do you think such a claim aids your argument?

By the way, that video is broken up into three 50 minute intervals.

Environment decides superiority. A rich child has an advantage over a child in poverty who does not have the advantages, The white race would never have survived 400 years of slavery as afro americans. The stronger race definitely is the black race. This question has to be about race. 400 years of slavery contributed to the now wealth of america.

 

[Publius1787]

Dude, I'm not watching two hours of bullshit when I know some cultures are way smarter than others. Iran would of had the bomb long ago if they had the intelligence! There are many groups of people who don't eat enough protein for normal brain development - they are less capable of advancement.

I guess you believe all groups of people are of equal intelligence, or that it has no bearing on advancement Instead of starting a thread with an interrogative, why don't you make a proclamation, and support it cogently; without documentary, and let the participants argue your position?

Do black people like the ghetto?

I both agreed with you and disagreed with you. However I have better perspective because I took the time to educate myself on all of the arguments available. If you have not seen this video, or more preferably, read the book that this video stems from, then you are nowhere in the same arena as I in determining what we can attribute to culture and what we can attribute to environment.

I am not a cultural relativist. I do believe that some cultures are superior to others. But your wide brushstrokes are so ignorantly devised that it is almost embarrassing watching you make them. If you want to argue a point you first must educate yourself on the information available. Choosing not to, and yet, insisting you are right, is more of a show of ignorance than anything else.

I have made a number of threads a number of ways. I have often been told that I bias a poll by commenting in the op. You share the opposite view. I am going to take flack no matter what I do or how I do it. Now that you are no longer ignorant of this fact, do you think such a claim aids your argument?

By the way, that video is broken up into three 50 minute intervals.

Environment decides superiority. A rich child has an advantage over a child in poverty who does not have the advantages, The white race would never have survived 400 years of slavery as afro americans. The stronger race definitely is the black race. This question has to be about race.

The topic is with respect to culture. There is a declaimer in the op to avoid race. If you want to talk race go down to the race relations section. There is indeed plenty there for you to bicker at me with.

I have already made my views on environmental factors clear. You will likely agree with them. I even posted a video with ample evidence to make the environmental case. But we aren't talking about environmental factors are we?

 

[Publius1787]

Africa's Contribution To Contemporary Western Civilization

CONCLUSION

From the history of four of Africa's great empires, it can be clearly seen that Africa and Africans have contributed to what we now consider Western Civilization). All along the West African coast, Africans had developed various systems of government, from the extended family to regional empires and the Village State. Many of them consisting of those attributes of a modern state (i.e., armies, courts, etc.). According to Melville J. Herskovits, a known anthropologist, "of the areas inhabited by non-literate people, Africa exhibits the great incidence of complex governmental structures. Not even the kingdom of Peru and Mexico could mobilize resources and concentrate power more effectively than could some of these African monarchies, which are more to be compared with Europe of the middle ages then referred to the common conception of the 'primitive' state."

From the mystery schools of Egypt to the University of Sankore and other intellectual centers in Timbuktu and Jenne, scholars throughout the Western world came to Africa in search of knowledge and wisdom. Leo Africanus, a Christianized moor, informed us that at the time, "In Timbuktu there are numerous judges, doctors, clerics, all receiving good salaries from the king. He pays great respect to men of learning. There is a big import from Barbary. More profit is made from the book trade than from any other line of business." The learning centers in Timbuktu had large and valuable collections of manuscripts in several languages, including Greek and Latin.

Africa's Contribution To Contemporarily Western Civilization

LOL, the conclusion is a third of the total literature. You think this non-academic garbage is going to convince anyone?

 

[LilOlLady]

Do white men have a sexual inferiority complex? I read some where that white racism comes from a sexual inferiority complex.

 

[LilOlLady]

Africa's Contribution To Contemporary Western Civilization

CONCLUSION

From the history of four of Africa's great empires, it can be clearly seen that Africa and Africans have contributed to what we now consider Western Civilization). All along the West African coast, Africans had developed various systems of government, from the extended family to regional empires and the Village State. Many of them consisting of those attributes of a modern state (i.e., armies, courts, etc.). According to Melville J. Herskovits, a known anthropologist, "of the areas inhabited by non-literate people, Africa exhibits the great incidence of complex governmental structures. Not even the kingdom of Peru and Mexico could mobilize resources and concentrate power more effectively than could some of these African monarchies, which are more to be compared with Europe of the middle ages then referred to the common conception of the 'primitive' state."

From the mystery schools of Egypt to the University of Sankore and other intellectual centers in Timbuktu and Jenne, scholars throughout the Western world came to Africa in search of knowledge and wisdom. Leo Africanus, a Christianized moor, informed us that at the time, "In Timbuktu there are numerous judges, doctors, clerics, all receiving good salaries from the king. He pays great respect to men of learning. There is a big import from Barbary. More profit is made from the book trade than from any other line of business." The learning centers in Timbuktu had large and valuable collections of manuscripts in several languages, including Greek and Latin.

Africa's Contribution To Contemporarily Western Civilization

LOL, the conclusion is a third of the total literature. You think this non-academic garbage is going to convince anyone?

Dude, this is a well know fact by all anthropologist and historians. This is just one of numerous writings. Sorry to burst you little bubble. .

 

[DriftingSand]

Not to fully change the subject or derail the thread but I just read someone's post concerning peoples who walked mainland America before it was called America. I would like to remind everyone of the oldest skeletal remains ever found in what is now the USA.

Some of you may have heard of the Kenniwick Man. There's controversy over his actual heritage but the first anthropologist to have studied his remains states that he's not only the oldest remains ever found but that he was of European descent.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iq-kC-lJWw"]The First Americans - Part 1 - Kennewick Man - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Publius1787]

Africa's Contribution To Contemporary Western Civilization

CONCLUSION

From the history of four of Africa's great empires, it can be clearly seen that Africa and Africans have contributed to what we now consider Western Civilization). All along the West African coast, Africans had developed various systems of government, from the extended family to regional empires and the Village State. Many of them consisting of those attributes of a modern state (i.e., armies, courts, etc.). According to Melville J. Herskovits, a known anthropologist, "of the areas inhabited by non-literate people, Africa exhibits the great incidence of complex governmental structures. Not even the kingdom of Peru and Mexico could mobilize resources and concentrate power more effectively than could some of these African monarchies, which are more to be compared with Europe of the middle ages then referred to the common conception of the 'primitive' state."

From the mystery schools of Egypt to the University of Sankore and other intellectual centers in Timbuktu and Jenne, scholars throughout the Western world came to Africa in search of knowledge and wisdom. Leo Africanus, a Christianized moor, informed us that at the time, "In Timbuktu there are numerous judges, doctors, clerics, all receiving good salaries from the king. He pays great respect to men of learning. There is a big import from Barbary. More profit is made from the book trade than from any other line of business." The learning centers in Timbuktu had large and valuable collections of manuscripts in several languages, including Greek and Latin.

Africa's Contribution To Contemporarily Western Civilization

LOL, the conclusion is a third of the total literature. You think this non-academic garbage is going to convince anyone?

Dude, this is a well know fact by all anthropologist and historians. This is just one of numerous writings. Sorry to burst you little bubble. .

The most successful days under the Egyptian sun were enjoyed by the rule of the Hyksos, who were, West Asian (Rule From c. 1550 BC – c. 1077 BC). Hyksos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Egypt changed hands a number of times. They got their asses kicked by the Hyksos, the Greeks, the Mesopotamians, the Macedonians, the Romans, the Arabs, the French/British, the Nazis, the Italians, and forgive me for the at least ten others I failed to mention. Indeed, Egypt hasn't been under Egyptian rule for nearly 4,000 years if not more. This is well known by all historians and anthropologists. Sorry to burst your bubble.

These are all of the people who ruled Egypt as outsiders from Africa.
New Kingdom 1550–1069 BC
3rd Intermediate Period 1069–664 BC
Late Period 664–332 BC
Classical Antiquity
Achaemenid Egypt 525–332 BC
Ptolemaic Egypt 332–30 BC
Roman & Byzantine Egypt 30 BC–641 AD
Sassanid Egypt 621–629
Middle Ages
Arab Egypt 641–969
Fatimid Egypt 969–1171
Ayyubid Egypt 1171–1250
Mamluk Egypt 1250–1517
Early Modern
Ottoman Egypt 1517–1867
French occupation 1798–1801
Egypt under Muhammad Ali 1805–1882
Khedivate of Egypt 1867–1914
Modern Egypt
British occupation 1882–1953
Sultanate of Egypt 1914–1922
Kingdom of Egypt 1922–1953
Republic 1953–present

 

[Publius1787]

Not to fully change the subject or derail the thread but I just read someone's post concerning peoples who walked mainland America before it was called America. I would like to remind everyone of the oldest skeletal remains every found in what is now the USA.

Some of you may have heard of the Kenniwick Man. There's controversy over his actual heritage but the first anthropologist to have studied his remains states that he's not only the oldest remains ever found but that he was of European descent.

[/url]

I've heard of him, but unlike some of the Afrocentrics among us (With no such evidence) I will reserve judgment until more precise data is available.

 

[Howey]

The best novels, plays and movies come from Africa.
The best inventions that make life easier come from Africa.
The best operas, symphonies and all other kinds of music come from Africa.
The best and most just political system comes from Africa.
The best judicial system comes from Africa.
The best rock'n roll and even the best hip-hop comes from Africa.

All the best things in the worlds come from Africa.

So to answer your question, without any doubt African culture trumps all others.

If you don't believe me, just ask the Reverend Al Sharpton.

Definitely.

Africa's Contributions to World Civilization
Africa's Contributions to World Civilization - América Latina en Movimiento

It's amazing how far some will go to convince themselves that "African culture," (Note that they do not say which one), can be considered an advanced/superior culture.

It's amazing how far some will go to convince themselves that "African culture," (Note that they do not say which one), cannot be considered an advanced/superior culture.

 

[DriftingSand]

Definitely.

It's amazing how far some will go to convince themselves that "African culture," (Note that they do not say which one), can be considered an advanced/superior culture.

It's amazing how far some will go to convince themselves that "African culture," (Note that they do not say which one), cannot be considered an advanced/superior culture.

Are you talking about South Africa?

 

[Publius1787]

Definitely.

It's amazing how far some will go to convince themselves that "African culture," (Note that they do not say which one), can be considered an advanced/superior culture.

It's amazing how far some will go to convince themselves that "African culture," (Note that they do not say which one), cannot be considered an advanced/superior culture.

Did you think of that all by yourself? The critical thinking and evidence based research it must have taken to come up with that reply must have been very arduous indeed. Have you been accepted for doctoral study as of yet? You defiantly got my recommendation.

 

[Publius1787]

It's amazing how far some will go to convince themselves that "African culture," (Note that they do not say which one), can be considered an advanced/superior culture.

It's amazing how far some will go to convince themselves that "African culture," (Note that they do not say which one), cannot be considered an advanced/superior culture.

Are you talking about South Africa?

A perfect example of devolution.

 

[SmedlyButler]

other cultures? It's been years since I read "Guns, Germs and Steel" but I think Diamond was pretty convincing in his historical argument. Most social anthropologists today are heavily influenced by cultural relativism and scorn the very Idea of "superiority". I think Diamond himself was sympathetic to some of the non-judgemental tenets of CR. He simply tried to explore why western culture did dominate the great majority of indiginous cultures it encountered. But I think we have to acknowledge that western culture itself is an amalgam of "great" cultures of the past. The Greeks, Romans, the Arabs of their golden age, the Ancient Chinese, the Sumerians and on and on. And we should keep in mind Shelley's Ozymandias. The West seems eternally invincible at this point in history. The lesson of history though teaches us that not even magnificant cultures are ever-lasting.

P.S. I'm a terrible speller and my spell checker is awol, any help?

 

[Publius1787]

other cultures? It's been years since I read "Guns, Germs and Steel" but I think Diamond was pretty convincing in his historical argument. Most social anthropologists today are heavily influenced by cultural relativism and scorn the very Idea of "superiority". I think Diamond himself was sympathetic to some of the non-judgemental tenets of CR. He simply tried to explore why western culture did dominate the great majority of indiginous cultures it encountered. But I think we have to acknowledge that western culture itself is an amalgam of "great" cultures of the past. The Greeks, Romans, the Arabs of their golden age, the Ancient Chinese, the Sumerians and on and on. And we should keep in mind Shelley's Ozymandias. The West seems eternally invincible at this point in history. The lesson of history though teaches us that not even magnificant cultures are ever-lasting.

P.S. I'm a terrible speller and my spell checker is awol, any help?

I agree with everything but "cultural relativism." My aim is not to argue against the environmental factors that helped advance certain cultures over others, but, in a time when communication and technology are becoming more and more available amid globalization, how much can culture explain for the lack of modernity of many cultures?

For example, cultures that value Islam as a religion are far less likely to value rule of law, secularism, multiculturalism/tolerance, democratic governance, free speech, human rights, and so on. Their cultural choice to pursue Islam largely hinders their ability to advance to first world status.

Example #2: Many Asian cultures, more specifically the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans, value education more so than other cultures. This is largely due as an offset from their earlier Confucian culture whereas the scholar was the highest in the social ladder. Their outlook toward education, and zero tolerance for a grade that would be happily accepted in the U.S., produces more successful students.

In an era when the working cultural models are available for all to see, the world is electronically connected, and technological advancement is at an all time high, culture is really the major inhibiting feature. As you can see, there are superior/inferior cultures. In fact, those who say otherwise have the extra incentive to keep their jobs, and so, whatever they believe you will only find one answer.

 

[francoHFW]

BS- Diamond himself says that history shows us the luck of the draw in climate, plants, animals, geography and natural resources is what counts.

 

[marsnow]

BS- Diamond himself says that history shows us the luck of the draw in climate, plants, animals, geography and natural resources is what counts.

Yes. But should we tolerate population growth in traditional cultures which were built prior to modern medicine and have traditions that encourage excessive children? Shouldn't we try to change those cultures since they no longer require the same traditions for the old geographic norms?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Depends on what the definition of superior is.

If it's about education over primitive cultures, then no.

Amazon tribes know an awful lot about how to use the jungle plants for medicines and survival skills. They are very skilled at hunting.
Put a college educated person in there and they would die very quickly.

that's experience, we have plenty of people who could do that and figure it out.

We could do a lot more the amazons do than they could do of what we do.