Are Sex Offender Registries Unconstitutional?

[George Costanza]

The death penalty for shop lifting would be cruel and unusual.

Letting your neighbors know you've been convicted of a sex crime is neither.

Of course. You miss the point. I was merely commenting on the poster's incorrect analysis, to wit, that if the questionable feature of the statute happens to be part of the punishment, there cannot be a constitutional issue.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

The death penalty for shop lifting would be cruel and unusual.

Letting your neighbors know you've been convicted of a sex crime is neither.

Of course. You miss the point. I was merely commenting on the poster's incorrect analysis, to wit, that if the questionable feature of the statute happens to be part of the punishment, there cannot be a constitutional issue.

I understand what you are saying. They are claiming it's a second punishment and its not

And by the way, there isn't even a Constitutional reason why a person couldn't be punished twice anyway. You just can't be tried twice.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Recitivism rate's over 90% for sex crimes. So I can see the logic of wanting to control them after prison, but I htink keeping them in prison makes more sense. Kick out the petty drug offenders and other non-violent types and keep sex criminals and violent offenders in for longer.

That's not true at all. Google "sex offender recidivism" and you will see that the DOJ says its about 5%, which is lower than all offenses except murder. It is a common misnomer that sex offenders reoffend at a high rate, but you have to understand how that stat can be manipulated.

I saw it first hand in a local newspaper. The title of the article was "sex offender reoffends". Without reading the article you'd think he fondled little Stephanie again. Come to find out, he got busted for a DUI. While this technically is an "offense" it's not a sex offense and so it doesn't count when you talk about them reoffending.

Sex offender - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A 2002 study by the United States Department of Justice indicated that recidivism rates among sex offenders was 5.3 percent

Here, educate yourself.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsorp94.pdf

You want to really protect society and lock up people with a high reoffense rate? Lock up drug offenders. These people reoffend at a rate approximately 65-70%.

Does anyone else think its ridiculous that someone can kill another person, do their time, get out of jail and live next to a school, not have to notify neighbors, send out mailers, etc, yet if you're 18 and get caught with your very consenting 16 year old girlfriend, you are labeled a sex offender, sometimes for life, having to send out mailers, can never work in a school, can never attend your childs school functions, etc? Do people have any idea how far reaching these "feel good" laws are?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Recitivism rate's over 90% for sex crimes. So I can see the logic of wanting to control them after prison, but I htink keeping them in prison makes more sense. Kick out the petty drug offenders and other non-violent types and keep sex criminals and violent offenders in for longer.

That's not true at all. Google "sex offender recidivism" and you will see that the DOJ says its about 5%, which is lower than all offenses except murder. It is a common misnomer that sex offenders reoffend at a high rate, but you have to understand how that stat can be manipulated.

I saw it in a local paper. The title of the article was "sex offender reoffends". Without reading the article you'd think he fondled little Stephanie again. Come to find out, he got busted for a DUI. While this technically is an "offense" it's not a sex offense and so it doesn't count when you talk about them reoffending.

Sex offender - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A 2002 study by the United States Department of Justice indicated that recidivism rates among sex offenders was 5.3 percent

Here, educate yourself.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsorp94.pdf

The 90%+ rate is for child sexual abusers. Shoulda specified.

 

[airplanemechanic]

The 90%+ rate is for child sexual abusers. Shoulda specified.

Please present the source of this stat.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The 90%+ rate is for child sexual abusers. Shoulda specified.

Please present the source of this stat.

"Pedophiles have a strong, almost irresistible, desire to have sex with children. The average pedophile molests 260 victims during their lifetime. Over 90% of convicted pedophiles are arrested again for the same offense after their release from prison."
Pedophile and Child Molester Statistics - Yello Dyno

The lower percentages are for short-term post release studies, not lifetime rates.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Ok do you have a source with a peer reviewed study that doesn't have a built in bias?

Your source is "protecting children from predators." That's not unbiased.

Unbiased study:

CSOM Publications - Recidivism of Sex Offenders

Even the huffington post:

Sex Offenders Recidivism Re-Entry Policy and Facts Paul Heroux

A study done by the state of Washington:

http://www.wsipp.wa.gov/ReportFile/...ecidivism-A-Review-of-Studies_Full-Report.pdf

A study done by scientific sex crimes researchers:

Once a Sex Offender Always a Sex Offender Maybe not. - Scientific American

If the DOJ says 5% and other peer reviewed studies have found 3-5%, I tend to believe those. Drug offenders, within 3 years, reoffend at 65-70%. Why don't you care about those? You do realize lots of druggies sell drugs to kids? Or you don't care about that?

It's not legal to sentence someone for a crime based on what their chances of reoffense are. What are you, the thought police?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Ok do you have a source with a peer reviewed study that doesn't have a built in bias?

Your source is "protecting children from predators." That's not unbiased.

If the DOJ says 5% and other peer reviewed studies have found 3-5%, I tend to believe those. Drug offenders, within 3 years, reoffend at 65-70%. Why don't you care about those? You do realize lots of druggies sell drugs to kids? Or you don't care about that?

As a sex educator I care about whatever makes my job harder as with child sexual abusers. Drug policy and enforcement isn't my area of expertise. But because I try to get people past their unhealthy repression of sexuality, when ever someone commits a sex crime, be it against adults or children, that just makes the whole 'sex is good' speech that much harder. So ya, I know a bit about who's sabotaging my efforts.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Before you start talking about the death penalty and other ridiculous punishments, you need to consider that there are people who are falsely accused. I know you don't care if someone innocent is put to death, otherwise you'd be against the death penalty, but that being said, I happen to be against it.

False allegation of child sexual abuse - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Anyone heard of the teacher falsely accused of molesting two preteen girls? She spent a half million dollars defending herself, and come to find out the girls were touching each other and got caught and decided to say the teacher touched them.

Situations like this MUST be taken into account during sentencing. Little Stephanie says uncle bob touched her and there is no evidence or proof of any kind, how can you convict? On heresay? Of a child? Ruin someones life for that? Sorry. Come to find out little Stephanie is mad because Uncle bob wouldn't give her an ice cream cone before supper. Think it crazy? It is, and it happens.

 

[airplanemechanic]

If you say sex offenders reoffend at 90% despite numerous peer reviewed studies showing otherwise, I SERIOUSLY doubt your expertise on this. In fact, I would call you highly uneducated on this.

Yea I know you claim to "care about the kids." What about the children of the offenders? Do you care about them? Oh that's right, you only care about SOME kids. Others can go to hell.

 

[Disir]

Before you start talking about the death penalty and other ridiculous punishments, you need to consider that there are people who are falsely accused. I know you don't care if someone innocent is put to death, otherwise you'd be against the death penalty, but that being said, I happen to be against it.

False allegation of child sexual abuse - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Anyone heard of the teacher falsely accused of molesting two preteen girls? She spent a half million dollars defending herself, and come to find out the girls were touching each other and got caught and decided to say the teacher touched them.

Situations like this MUST be taken into account during sentencing. Little Stephanie says uncle bob touched her and there is no evidence or proof of any kind, how can you convict? On heresay? Of a child? Ruin someones life for that? Sorry. Come to find out little Stephanie is mad because Uncle bob wouldn't give her an ice cream cone before supper. Think it crazy? It is, and it happens.

Situations like that need to be taken into account prior to conviction.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Situations like that need to be taken into account prior to conviction.

That would be great, except with this type of crime, you are guilty until proven innocent. Especially with threats of decades in prison if found guilty by jury. What jury will look at little Susie on the stand and big bad child molester Uncle Bob and let him walk? Lawyers are telling clients that their innocence doesn't matter, no jury will let you walk with these accusations so plea guilty and avoid decades in prison.

Long forgotten was that the kid made it all up.

You claim to care about kids. What about the kids of these offenders? Why go after these people? Do you have any idea what poses real dangers to kids? Hint: It's not these people. If you really wanted to protect kids and really cared for them as you say you do, you would focus on the real dangers, not the perceived ones. In 2011 alone, 171,000 children were injured in car accidents.

Bicycles kill more kids than guns. Cars kill and maim more children than 50 years of sex offenders. You SHOULD be trying to make child car seats safer, bicycles safer, helmets safer, etc. But those things aren't as "fun" to say you're "for" than to attack sex offenders. They're an easy target. everyone hates them. Politicians do the same thing.

 

[Disir]

Situations like that need to be taken into account prior to conviction.

That would be great, except with this type of crime, you are guilty until proven innocent. Especially with threats of decades in prison if found guilty by jury. What jury will look at little Susie on the stand and big bad child molester Uncle Bob and let him walk? Lawyers are telling clients that their innocence doesn't matter, no jury will let you walk with these accusations so plea guilty and avoid decades in prison.

Long forgotten was that the kid made it all up.

Not necessarily.

There are those prosecutors that pick up a high profile case with little evidence. Mike Nifong, anyone? (Not a child molesting case)

Many times over if there isn't enough evidence they won't prosecute. It takes too much money. Now, not too many media outlets will put the same face up there that they accused of child molesting once the individual has been cleared.

Now, you can say that there isn't enough money for public defenders.

You can say that many laws on the book are straight out over the edge.

But, your argument takes place in the court room.

Not in the sentencing. Sentencing occurs after the conviction.

Further, since the criminal justice system is motivated by politics and funding which fluctuates and the public safety is at risk.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Once you are charged with a child sex offense, nobody cares. Look at this teacher:

Fairfax teacher Sean Lanigan still suffering from false molestation allegations - The Washington Post

Guy was falsely accused, spent months in prison, looked at 40 years, was found not guilty. Years later, he is STILL trying to repair his reputation. Does anyone give a damn? Hell no. I can tell the OP has never met anyone or knows anyone falsely accused of a sex crime. He most certainly has never been falsely accused himself. Let one kid claim he fondled her and I can promise his little macho ass will be tamed in a split second.

 

[JoeB131]

The problem with Sex Offender Registries is that they take the serial rapist and put him on the same list as the guy who had sex with his 15 year old girlfriend when he was 18.

It really isn't so much a problem with jobs, as if you have a conviction for much of ANYTHING, you have to disclose it to a potential employer.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Very true, Joe. The problem is, some jobs only ask for crimes going back 3, 5 or 7 years. Sex offenders have to register no less than 15 for any crime, up to life for some crimes. So you could be competing with someone who has a drug conviction 10 years ago, and with a 7 year background check he comes up clean. However, a sex offender with a sex offense 25 years ago still shows because he still has to register and notify.

And yes, people don't understand what sex offenders are. Most sex offenders didn't offend against any child. Prostitution is a sex offense in many states. That is consensual sex between two adults. How is that a crime that should keep a father from being able to go see his daughter cheer at a junior high football game?

 

[Disir]

Once you are charged with a child sex offense, nobody cares. Look at this teacher:

Fairfax teacher Sean Lanigan still suffering from false molestation allegations - The Washington Post

Guy was falsely accused, spent months in prison, looked at 40 years, was found not guilty. Years later, he is STILL trying to repair his reputation. Does anyone give a damn? Hell no.

He acknowledged that state law did not require Fairfax to reimburse his full costs, “

^^^change the law. Many states now refuse to compensate wrongly convicted individuals that have been released from prison.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Yes, change a lot of laws.

 

[JoeB131]

Very true, Joe. The problem is, some jobs only ask for crimes going back 3, 5 or 7 years. Sex offenders have to register no less than 15 for any crime, up to life for some crimes. So you could be competing with someone who has a drug conviction 10 years ago, and with a 7 year background check he comes up clean. However, a sex offender with a sex offense 25 years ago still shows because he still has to register and notify.

And yes, people don't understand what sex offenders are. Most sex offenders didn't offend against any child. Prostitution is a sex offense in many states. That is consensual sex between two adults. How is that a crime that should keep a father from being able to go see his daughter cheer at a junior high football game?

Honestly, i'm in the middle of a job hunt right now, and every employer I've applied to has asked "ever". No one has said in the last ## years.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Honestly, i'm in the middle of a job hunt right now, and every employer I've applied to has asked "ever". No one has said in the last ## years.

Really? They can't legally do that. Or at least can't legally not hire you because of it depending on what you've been convicted of and the type of job you're applying for.

I've never run into one that said "ever." You think they say ever because they say "you must pass a background check." One time I probed them on this for more info and they said "you must be able to pass a 7 year background check."

Employer Job Applicant and Interview FAQs - Lawyers.com

There are laws regarding refusing to hire someone because of this. They are very specific. I know a guy who had to pass a background check to get a high security badge at the airport I was working at to be around airliners. With a sex offense conviction of child porn, he was able to get the badge. Why? Because the FAA has specific disqualifying crimes, and that wasn't one of them. Our boss told him I don't give a shit what you did 10 years ago and the airport manager told him we don't want to be the ones to hold you back, we want to help you get back on your feet and proudly handed him his badge. It brought him to tears. He worked with me at the airport for almost 10 years.

Like I said, 99% are 3 5 or 7 years.

Another stat for the OP: 4400 kids were injured last year on carnival rides.