Are Republicans really against clean air and clean water? Is there ever too much "dirty"?

[sealybobo]

are you suggesting the rich didn't do well under xiden? just making sure here.

other than jobs returning back after the pandemic, what jobs did xiden create for middle class families? he even gave away free student loan handouts. but did he get them jobs? hahaahahahahahaha

Are you kidding me? Lots of jobs available during the Biden years. I was thinking about this earlier today so I'm glad you brought it up. If you are still making the same money you were before inflation, that's your own fault. EVERYONE got a inflation raise. The only people who didn't stayed at the same job, same position, and that company has no reason to give them a raise. Why would you give them a raise? The people who got raises went and found another job.

OMG, there's so much to say. I'm not going to write you a book but remember the Great Resignation? Soooo many upper management people and old people retired early. They said "screw it" and retired 5-10 years early. There's your chance for a promotion. Or to go look for a new job.

How about all the uneducated blue collar workers who got raises under Biden? Casino workers, healthcare, dock workers, writers, UPS, Starbucks, SAG-AFTRA, the Coalition of Kaiser Permanente Unions, Los Angeles Unified School District workers and the UAW, Teamsters, Corrections officers, Hospital, Hotel, Amazon, Boeing, flight attendants,

Striking worker totals increased by 141% in 2023​

And they all got raises that MORE than made up for inflation. Most of them don't own homes or 401K's.

Do you own your home and have a 401k?

From 2019 to 2022, the median net worth of American families jumped 37% to $192,900, after adjusting for inflation. It’s the largest increase ever recorded by the federal Survey of Consumer Finances, released last fall. Surging home values and rising stock ownership fed the surge.

 

[sealybobo]

are you suggesting the rich didn't do well under xiden? just making sure here.

other than jobs returning back after the pandemic, what jobs did xiden create for middle class families? he even gave away free student loan handouts. but did he get them jobs? hahaahahahahahaha

US appeals court upholds Biden's $15 minimum wage for recreational contractors​

What's Trump's plan? These uneducated blue collar workers have to wait for him to bring jobs back home? And that they say will take at least 2 years? Are you that stupid?

And Republicans also said wages would go up for them when Trump tossed out all the illegals. But that's not happening. Told you so. Florida is even introducing a bill to replace the illegals that left with 14 year old labor. Kids in Florida who are in school can now work 10pm to 6pm on a fucking school night.

That's better than raising wages to attract adults.

So you see? Republicans are never going to MAGA for uneducated blue collar workers like you.

 

[jc456]

US appeals court upholds Biden's $15 minimum wage for recreational contractors​

What's Trump's plan? These uneducated blue collar workers have to wait for him to bring jobs back home? And that they say will take at least 2 years? Are you that stupid?

And Republicans also said wages would go up for them when Trump tossed out all the illegals. But that's not happening. Told you so. Florida is even introducing a bill to replace the illegals that left with 14 year old labor. Kids in Florida who are in school can now work 10pm to 6pm on a fucking school night.

That's better than raising wages to attract adults.

So you see? Republicans are never going to MAGA for uneducated blue collar workers like you.

has trump tossed any working illegals yet? You think the worst of the worst were working? hahahaahahhahahaha you're more stupid than I thought.

 

[ding]

I was just thinking about it. Regardless of the Democratic vision of America, where the middle class does a lot better and the rich don't get as rich, or the GOP running things trickle down style, life isn't fair for the poor. And it's never going to be. But our way, makes it easier to get out of poverty and makes poverty not be so bad. I know my way would work better for everyone but the people I'm trying to help don't seem to want it, or get it.

I think it's funny that Trump is going to help uneducated blue collar in 2 ways

1. Bring jobs back home. But we don't have enough workers to fill the jobs we have now.

2. Kick illegals out, which Republicans said would raise wages. But it hasn't. See Florida trying to undo a child labor law that says kids in school can't work the graveyard shift. Now that the illegals are gone, Florida is hurting. Well then how come wages aren't going up? Seems Florida Republicans and Corporations are going to do everything they can before they raise wages. Including hiring 14 year olds to work 10-6am then go to school. Nice.

I think it's sad when we think the free market depends upon the government to function. When did that happen?

 

[Matted Joybeard]

I believe the current prevailing thinking is that clean water is not a right, but a product to be commodified and if someone isn't able to afford it that it means they were not deserving or failed to work hard enough for it.

 

[sealybobo]

I think it's sad when we think the free market depends upon the government to function. When did that happen?

Name one market that doesn't depend upon the government to funtion. How are the markets doing in Yemen?

 

[ding]

Name one market that doesn't depend upon the government to funtion. How are the markets doing in Yemen?

Seriously? You are arguing free markets need or depend upon governments to function? Deep down inside you know you want government to set wages, prices and profits.

 

[sealybobo]

Seriously? You are arguing free markets need or depend upon governments to function? Deep down inside you know you want government to set wages, prices and profits.

"You Can't Govern if You Don't Believe in Government"

In a May 25, 2001 interview, Grover Norquist told National Public Radio's Mara Liasson, "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." Norquist got his wish.

www.thomhartmann.com

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Here are a couple of headlines for those who haven't had the time to study both economics and history: There is no such thing as a "free market." The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans...

www.thomhartmann.com

1. There is no such thing as a "free market."

2. The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans are discovering).

Markets are the creation of government.

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible. They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

Which explains why conservative economics wiped out the middle class during the period from 1880 to 1932, and why, when Reagan again began applying conservative economics, the middle class again began to vanish in America in the 1980s - a process that has dramatically picked up steam under George W. Bush.

The conservative mantra is "let the market decide." But there is no market independent of government, so what they're really saying is, "Stop corporations from defending workers and building a middle class, and let the corporations decide how much to pay for labor and how to trade." This is, at best, destructive to national and international economies, and, at worst, destructive to democracy itself.

Markets are a creation of government, just as corporations exist only by authorization of government. Governments set the rules of the market. And, since our government is of, by, and for We The People, those rules have historically been set to first maximize the public good resulting from people doing business.

 

[ding]

"You Can't Govern if You Don't Believe in Government"

In a May 25, 2001 interview, Grover Norquist told National Public Radio's Mara Liasson, "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." Norquist got his wish.

www.thomhartmann.com

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Here are a couple of headlines for those who haven't had the time to study both economics and history: There is no such thing as a "free market." The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans...

www.thomhartmann.com

1. There is no such thing as a "free market."

2. The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans are discovering).

Markets are the creation of government.

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible. They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

Which explains why conservative economics wiped out the middle class during the period from 1880 to 1932, and why, when Reagan again began applying conservative economics, the middle class again began to vanish in America in the 1980s - a process that has dramatically picked up steam under George W. Bush.

The conservative mantra is "let the market decide." But there is no market independent of government, so what they're really saying is, "Stop corporations from defending workers and building a middle class, and let the corporations decide how much to pay for labor and how to trade." This is, at best, destructive to national and international economies, and, at worst, destructive to democracy itself.

Markets are a creation of government, just as corporations exist only by authorization of government. Governments set the rules of the market. And, since our government is of, by, and for We The People, those rules have historically been set to first maximize the public good resulting from people doing business.

OMG you're a communist!!!

 

[sealybobo]

OMG you're a communist!!!

So are you, you just don't know it. You think that any economy on the planet doesn't have to abide by the governments rules? So you are saying America is a communist country? Got it.

Is the American government a good government? It was from FDR till about Bush 2. Bush 2 was when the middle class was ruined. When the government is taken over by the rich and sets the rules that benefit the rich and corporations first and you second.

Is England communism? Because corporations in England have to play by the rules. England's rules. The government sets the rules in EVERY country. The problem with America is ours has been taken over.

 

[ding]

So are you, you just don't know it. You think that any economy on the planet doesn't have to abide by the governments rules? So you are saying America is a communist country? Got it.

Is the American government a good government? It was from FDR till about Bush 2. Bush 2 was when the middle class was ruined. When the government is taken over by the rich and sets the rules that benefit the rich and corporations first and you second.

Is England communism? Because corporations in England have to play by the rules. England's rules. The government sets the rules in EVERY country. The problem with America is ours has been taken over.

Nope. That's you rationalizing your communist leanings.

 

[sealybobo]

OMG you're a communist!!!

Then so is Trump.

The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it. Who said that Thom or Don?

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Here are a couple of headlines for those who haven't had the time to study both economics and history: There is no such thing as a "free market." The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans...

www.thomhartmann.com

That's what we were saying in 2004. Today, Trump is agreeing with Thom. Without him, the middle class is doomed. He must intervene. He's a commy?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We’re supposed to be cooling right now but we’re getting hotter.

Thank goodness!

A new ice age would kill billions.

 

[ding]

Then so is Trump.

The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it. Who said that Thom or Don?

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Here are a couple of headlines for those who haven't had the time to study both economics and history: There is no such thing as a "free market." The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans...

www.thomhartmann.com

That's what we were saying in 2004. Today, Trump is agreeing with Thom. Without him, the middle class is doomed. He must intervene. He's a commy?

Maybe he is. Or maybe he wants to be a dictator. Or maybe he wants to be king. But you will never convince me the free market can't function without government.

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe he is. Or maybe he wants to be a dictator. Or maybe he wants to be king. But you will never convince me the free market can't function without government.

No market can function without a government. Or, no market functions without a government. Can you think of one?

 

[ding]

No market can function without a government. Or, no market functions without a government. Can you think of one?

All of them can, dummy. Did you need the government to buy your boat?