Are Biden's issuance of presidential pardons going too far?

[Delldude]

Preemptive pardons are an admission that the person is guilty of a crime.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It's not reviewing the pardon itself, it's clarifying the definition of a pardon.

Just like they clarified what arms relates to via Heller, or speech relates to via Citizens United, or equal protection relates to, first ******* it up via Plessey, then fixing it under Brown.

The definition of a pardon has been fixed for hundreds of years. What changed? People getting butthurt is what changed. nothing more. Nothing less.

The difference in those cases was there was something to challenge. You cannot challenge the meaning of a definition that is fixed and absolute, no matter how hard you try.

I hope the power to pardon could be reined in, but I am unsure as to whether that is a good idea in the long run. However, I am certain it must be done by amending the Constitution. EOs are often weak attempt to legislate by proxy.

 

[martybegan]

The definition of a pardon has been fixed for hundreds of years. What changed? People getting butthurt is what changed. nothing more. Nothing less.

The difference in those cases was there was something to challenge. You cannot challenge the meaning of a definition that is fixed and absolute, no matter how hard you try.

I hope the power to pardon could be reined in, but I am unsure as to whether that is a good idea in the long run. However, I am certain it must be done by amending the Constitution. EOs are often weak attempt to legislate by proxy.

So the first amendment only applies to printing presses?

Again, show me examples of blanket pardons like Biden just issued issued by any other Preisdent.

Nixons was related to Watergate. The Draft dodgers were related to draft dodging.
'

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Preemptive pardons are an admission that the person is guilty of a crime.

I have asked several times for that to be proven and where I can find that in law. No one has supplied a valid answer. The closest is that it is generally imputed from a pardon, but no guilt is assumed by the person receiving the pardon.

 

[Delldude]

I have asked several times for that to be proven and where I can find that in law. No one has supplied a valid answer. The closest is that it is generally imputed from a pardon, but no guilt is assumed by the person receiving the pardon.

I stumbled on this last night looking into past preemptive pardons:

After Ford left the White House in 1977, he privately justified his pardon of Nixon by carrying in his wallet a portion of the text of Burdick v. United States, a 1915 U.S. Supreme Court case where the dictum stated that a pardon carries an imputation of guilt and that its acceptance carries a confession of guilt.

Pardon of Richard Nixon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So the first amendment only applies to printing presses?

Again, show me examples of blanket pardons like Biden just issued issued by any other Preisdent.

Nixons was related to Watergate. The Draft dodgers were related to draft dodging.
'

None of that was stated in the pardon, was it? We can only assume that was the reason. In the case of Biden's pardons for his relatives, we can also assume it is from criminal activity associated with Hunter's influence peddling for which he was also given a blanket pardon. They are not as different as you are making them to be.

We can assume the reasons for Cheney's, Milley's and Fauci's pardons the same way, just as you assume acceptance of a pardon is an admission of guilt, which it is not.

 

[martybegan]

None of that was stated in the pardon, was it? We can only assume that was the reason. In the case of Biden's pardons for his relatives, we can also assume it is from criminal activity associated with Hunter's influence peddling for which he was also given a blanket pardon. They are not as different as you are making them to be.

We can assume the reasons for Cheney's, Milley's and Fauci's pardons the same way, just as you assume acceptance of a pardon is an admission of guilt, which it is not.

We can confidently know those were the reasons.

If he would have pardoned them for specific acts, I wouldn't be making this argument right now.

That's a lot of assumption, and zero evidence backing it up.

Here's the normal process of a pardon. Crime-Arrest-charges-indictment-trial-verdict-sentence-pardon.

Here's what Biden did Crime?-Pardon.

The two are not the same.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I stumbled on this last night looking into past preemptive pardons:

After Ford left the White House in 1977, he privately justified his pardon of Nixon by carrying in his wallet a portion of the text of Burdick v. United States, a 1915 U.S. Supreme Court case where the dictum stated that a pardon carries an imputation of guilt and that its acceptance carries a confession of guilt.

Pardon of Richard Nixon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is that word "imputation" again! did you ever look up what it means? It is a belief, not a fact.

Do you pay taxes on imputed income? No, because it isn't real. It is potential until realized.

 

[Delldude]

There is that word "imputation" again! did you ever look up what it means? It is a belief, not a fact.

Here's more.........not as cut and dry as it appeared:

Burdick v. United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here's something to ponder:

United States v. Wilson (1833) established that it is possible to reject a (conditional) pardon, even for a capital sentence. Burdick affirmed that the same principle extends to unconditional pardons.

Just saw Tom Fitton claims these pardons can be revoked.

 

[ThisIsMe]

You’re talking Trump, the felon president!

Nope, that's not it at all

 

[Delldude]

There is no review of Presidential pardons in the Constitution.

Nor is there any mention of 'preemptive pardons'......

 

[MarathonMike]

Now he pardoned Fauci and Milley. Pardoned from what? When have these people ever been convicted and sentenced for any crimes?

Biden pardons Fauci and Milley in an effort to guard against potential ‘revenge’ by Trump​

"WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden has pardoned Dr. Anthony Fauci, retired Gen. Mark Milley and members of the House committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, using the extraordinary powers of his office in his final hours to guard against potential “revenge” by the incoming Trump administration.

The decision by Biden comes after Donald Trump warned of an enemies list filled with those who have crossed him politically or sought to hold him accountable for his attempt to overturn his 2020 election loss and his role in the storming of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. Trump has selected Cabinet nominees who backed his election lies and who have pledged to punish those involved in efforts to investigate him.

“The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense,” Biden said in a statement. “Our nation owes these public servants a debt of gratitude for their tireless commitment to our country.”

It’s customary for a president to grant clemency at the end of his term, but those acts of mercy are usually offered to everyday Americans who have been convicted of crimes. But Biden has used the power in the broadest and most untested way possible: to pardon those who have not even been investigated yet. And with the acceptance comes a tacit admission of guilt or wrongdoing, even though those who have been pardoned have not been formally accused of any crimes."

https://wgno.com/news/health/ap-bid...-to-guard-against-potential-revenge-by-trump/

Biden is just being consistent with his Regime. The Democrats have been going too far with everything since Trump won in 2016.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Nor is there any mention of 'preemptive pardons'......

So there is no justification for your reasoning.

 

[Delldude]

So there is no justification for your reasoning.

Inquiring minds want to know....

 

[Marener]

Where does it say we can't review the definition of a pardon?

Who is going to have standing to sue?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Inquiring minds want to know....

You pay for it then.

 

[struth]

Who is going to have standing to sue?

Federal pardons are for crimes against the United States, the DOJ would have standing to sue on behalf of the United States

The more likely thing is charging one of xiden’s criminal cabal with one of their many crimes, and they can claim the defense and litigate it

 

[Nostra]

Biden explained the justification. There is nothing lacking other than your ignorance.

 

[Marener]

View attachment 1069081

Okay. They’re wrong.

 

[struth]

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So xiden himself admitted his family and admin were guilty of crimes