Are Americans Who Admire Socialism and Communism Miseducated or Stupid?

[Soupnazi630]

Capitalist development was a necessary part of human development. What we have to consider now is the future development of humanity and how capitalism affects it. Obviously you have decided that there are no other options. Me, not so much. As time passes more will start to rethink things.

Communism and socialism are failures of the past not developments of the future. If someone comes up with something better fine but that is not communism or socialism.

Moving from a competitive economic system to one that is cooperative would be an evolution of human development and is a defining quality of Marxist thought. It is the future......if we have any.

Wrong.

The defining quality of Marxist thought is tyranny and oppression. Cooperation is something which is strictly and exclusively voluntary based on individual volitional choice. When it is forced it is no longer cooperation at all it is slavery which is the essence of marxist thought.

Slavery is a regressive step backwards in human development

There is nothing oppressive or tyrannical about Marxism. It is simply a different way of organizing the way we produce the things that we use. It is actually less tyrannical than capitalism.
You've been conditioned your entire life to view the economy from only perspective. You can't see that it is the capitalists who enforce, with violence, their way of doing things.

Wow, you're quite the programmed little Marxist.

They always accuse others of being conditioned because it is they who are brainwashed to ignore facts.

 

[danielpalos]

Are Americans Who Admire Socialism and Communism Miseducated or Stupid?​

Are Americans Who Admire Socialism and Communism Miseducated or Stupid? - Black Community News
By Walter Williams -- A recent Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation survey found that 51 percent of American millennials would rather live in a socialist or communist country than in a capitalist country. Only 42 percent prefer the latter (Forty-Four Percent of Millennials Prefer Socialism. Do They Know What It Means?). Twenty-five percent of millennials who know who Vladimir Lenin was view him favorably. Lenin was the first premier of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Half of millennials have never heard of Communist Mao Zedong, who ruled China from 1949 to 1959 and was responsible for the deaths of 45 million Chinese people.… The number of people who died at the hands of Josef Stalin may be as high as 62 million. However, almost one-third of millennials think former President George W. Bush is responsible for more killings than Stalin (How Many Millennials Think Bush Killed More Than Stalin). By the way, Adolf Hitler, head of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, was responsible for the deaths of about 20 million people. The Nazis come in as a poor third in terms of history’s most prolific mass murderers. According to professor Rudolph Rummel’s research, the 20th century, mankind’s most brutal century, saw 262 million people’s lives destroyed at the hands of their own governments (20th Century Democide)…. Young people who weren’t alive during World War II and its Cold War aftermath might be forgiven for not knowing the horrors of socialism. Some of their beliefs represent their having been indoctrinated by their K-12 teachers and college professors. There was such leftist hate for former President George W. Bush that it’s not out of the question that those 32 percent of millennials were taught by their teachers and professors that Bush murdered more people than Stalin.... America’s communists, socialists and Marxists have little knowledge of socialist history. Bradley Birzer, a professor of history at Hillsdale College, explains this in an article for The American Conservative titled “Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins.” Joseph Goebbels wrote in 1925, “It would be better for us to end our existence under Bolshevism than to endure slavery under capitalism.” This Nazi sentiment might be shared by Sen. Bernie Sanders and his comrade Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Goebbels added, “I think it is terrible that we and the Communists are.... Cold War aftermath might be forgiven for not knowing the horrors of socialism. Some of their beliefs represent their having been indoctrinated by their K-12 teachers and college professors. There was such leftist hate for former President George W. Bush that it’s not out of the question that those 32 percent of millennials were taught by their teachers and professors that Bush murdered more people than Stalin.... America’s communists, socialists and Marxists have little knowledge of socialist history. Bradley Birzer, a professor of history at Hillsdale College, explains this in an article for The American Conservative titled “Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins.” Joseph Goebbels wrote in 1925, “It would be better for us to end our existence under Bolshevism than to endure slavery. This Nazi sentiment might be shared by Sen. Bernie Sanders and his comrade Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Goebbels added, “I think it is terrible that we and the Communists are bashing in each other’s heads” (Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins)…. Are Americans who admire the world’s most brutal regimes miseducated or stupid? Or do they have some kind of devious agenda?


~~~~~~
If Socialism is such an ideal utopia of sunshine, lollipops and everything wonderful then why was the damn Berlin Wall built in the first place? Why all the positive Hype by the biased media for Venezuela that is suffering hyper-inflation, people starving and seeking to leave despite the fact that before the Chavez - Marxist Socialist takeover was the richest country in South America. (Venezuela Before Chávez: Anatomy of an Economic Collapse Edited by Ricardo Hausmann and Francisco R. RodrÃ*guez).
Millennials today are the results decades of infiltration by socialist/communist propagandists posing as educators inculcating brainwashing children from their pre-school training forward. Ideological Marxist Socialist pseudo-educators have revised, rewritten history, misrepresented fact and inserted Marxist Socialism into every classroom. The brainwashed are taught that government should provide them with everything in life without any contribution from them. They are a generation of takers. They don't want to work or think. They believe they are owed something. In answer to Dr. Williams’ question, I would say mislead, lied too and stupid. An innately inquisitive intelligent person can, and probably will overcome faulty teaching. A sensible person can eventually wake up to reality. Those who can’t are simply stupid.
Remember kindergarten children taught to sing the praises of Barack Hussein Obama. This was not only done with the children in the video, it was widely done.
School children sing praises to their savior Obama

Socialism requires social morals for free. Only the Religious can make Communism work.

 

[danielpalos]

All the winner countries have some socialism .

/——/ Thats like bragging that most of your Glee club has STDs.

A War on Communicable Diseases not a war on drugs!

 

[Cellblock2429]

All the winner countries have some socialism .

/——/ Thats like bragging that most of your Glee club has STDs.

A War on Communicable Diseases not a war on drugs!

/——/ How do you force gayes to have safe sex?

 

[danielpalos]

About 6.1 Million Illegals Filed Taxes in US – Many Didn't Pay, Received Refunds
By James Agresti | November 7, 2016 | 2:57 PM EST
About 6.1 Million Illegals Filed Taxes in US – Many Didn't Pay, Received Refunds

We should be upgrading Ellis Island and surrounding infrastructure; and generating revenue from foreign nationals on a per capita basis.

Asylum seekers could be processed there as well.

All foreign nationals should have a federal id. for lawful participation in our markets. Revenue from foreign nationals could pay for it.

 

[Tehon]

Capitalist development was a necessary part of human development. What we have to consider now is the future development of humanity and how capitalism affects it. Obviously you have decided that there are no other options. Me, not so much. As time passes more will start to rethink things.

Communism and socialism are failures of the past not developments of the future. If someone comes up with something better fine but that is not communism or socialism.

Moving from a competitive economic system to one that is cooperative would be an evolution of human development and is a defining quality of Marxist thought. It is the future......if we have any.

Wrong.

The defining quality of Marxist thought is tyranny and oppression. Cooperation is something which is strictly and exclusively voluntary based on individual volitional choice. When it is forced it is no longer cooperation at all it is slavery which is the essence of marxist thought.

Slavery is a regressive step backwards in human development

There is nothing oppressive or tyrannical about Marxism. It is simply a different way of organizing the way we produce the things that we use. It is actually less tyrannical than capitalism.
You've been conditioned your entire life to view the economy from only perspective. You can't see that it is the capitalists who enforce, with violence, their way of doing things.

Wrong

Marx himself proves you wrong.

Marx demands despotism and tyranny over others.

Marx clearly stated his vision demands dictatorship of the proletariat which means tyranny.

A dictator is a dictator is a dictator and they are all tyrannical even if they come from the proletariat.

It is not a different way of organizing production it is in fact a different way of FORCING production. Which is precisely what seizing the means of production is about.

First you seize it by force then you force it to function a certain way with workers who have to work.

That is slavery.

I cannot see mythology.

There is no force in trading pay for labor no matter how much you lie to the contrary.

That is why capitalism is morally superior to your regressive and outdated system. Capitalism is based on free will, marxism is based on violence.

You can deny those facts all day but you cannot refute then as they come from Marx himself

The dictatorship of the proletariat is not tyranny, it is an end to tyranny. Marx explains that you live in a dictatorship now in capitalist society. You've been conditioned to it so you don't see it or you don't think of it in this way, but it is there. Marx's dictatorship of the proletariat seeks to bring an end to the tyranny already imposed on society by the ruling class.

"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch."
The German Ideology. Karl Marx 1845

 

[Ambivalent1]

Communism and socialism are failures of the past not developments of the future. If someone comes up with something better fine but that is not communism or socialism.

Moving from a competitive economic system to one that is cooperative would be an evolution of human development and is a defining quality of Marxist thought. It is the future......if we have any.

Wrong.

The defining quality of Marxist thought is tyranny and oppression. Cooperation is something which is strictly and exclusively voluntary based on individual volitional choice. When it is forced it is no longer cooperation at all it is slavery which is the essence of marxist thought.

Slavery is a regressive step backwards in human development

There is nothing oppressive or tyrannical about Marxism. It is simply a different way of organizing the way we produce the things that we use. It is actually less tyrannical than capitalism.
You've been conditioned your entire life to view the economy from only perspective. You can't see that it is the capitalists who enforce, with violence, their way of doing things.

Wrong

Marx himself proves you wrong.

Marx demands despotism and tyranny over others.

Marx clearly stated his vision demands dictatorship of the proletariat which means tyranny.

A dictator is a dictator is a dictator and they are all tyrannical even if they come from the proletariat.

It is not a different way of organizing production it is in fact a different way of FORCING production. Which is precisely what seizing the means of production is about.

First you seize it by force then you force it to function a certain way with workers who have to work.

That is slavery.

I cannot see mythology.

There is no force in trading pay for labor no matter how much you lie to the contrary.

That is why capitalism is morally superior to your regressive and outdated system. Capitalism is based on free will, marxism is based on violence.

You can deny those facts all day but you cannot refute then as they come from Marx himself

The dictatorship of the proletariat is not tyranny, it is an end to tyranny. Marx explains that you live in a dictatorship now in capitalist society. You've been conditioned to it so you don't see it or you don't think of it in this way, but it is there. Marx's dictatorship of the proletariat seeks to bring an end to the tyranny already imposed on society by the ruling class.

"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch."
The German Ideology. Karl Marx 1845

Did you pay to learn this shit?

 

[Soupnazi630]

Communism and socialism are failures of the past not developments of the future. If someone comes up with something better fine but that is not communism or socialism.

Moving from a competitive economic system to one that is cooperative would be an evolution of human development and is a defining quality of Marxist thought. It is the future......if we have any.

Wrong.

The defining quality of Marxist thought is tyranny and oppression. Cooperation is something which is strictly and exclusively voluntary based on individual volitional choice. When it is forced it is no longer cooperation at all it is slavery which is the essence of marxist thought.

Slavery is a regressive step backwards in human development

There is nothing oppressive or tyrannical about Marxism. It is simply a different way of organizing the way we produce the things that we use. It is actually less tyrannical than capitalism.
You've been conditioned your entire life to view the economy from only perspective. You can't see that it is the capitalists who enforce, with violence, their way of doing things.

Wrong

Marx himself proves you wrong.

Marx demands despotism and tyranny over others.

Marx clearly stated his vision demands dictatorship of the proletariat which means tyranny.

A dictator is a dictator is a dictator and they are all tyrannical even if they come from the proletariat.

It is not a different way of organizing production it is in fact a different way of FORCING production. Which is precisely what seizing the means of production is about.

First you seize it by force then you force it to function a certain way with workers who have to work.

That is slavery.

I cannot see mythology.

There is no force in trading pay for labor no matter how much you lie to the contrary.

That is why capitalism is morally superior to your regressive and outdated system. Capitalism is based on free will, marxism is based on violence.

You can deny those facts all day but you cannot refute then as they come from Marx himself

The dictatorship of the proletariat is not tyranny, it is an end to tyranny. Marx explains that you live in a dictatorship now in capitalist society. You've been conditioned to it so you don't see it or you don't think of it in this way, but it is there. Marx's dictatorship of the proletariat seeks to bring an end to the tyranny already imposed on society by the ruling class.

"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch."
The German Ideology. Karl Marx 1845

The dictatorship of the proletariat is despotism and tyranny which is precisely what Marx meant.

One does not remove tyranny from dictatorship by calling it of the proletariat and even Marx acknowledged that fact.

Rulers mean rulers regardless of what class they come from and your while quotation is meaningless contradictory crap which is also self defeating.

Now we know Marx meant tyranny and that is fact. You know it as well.

Stop the denial and lies and answer this.

Why should I live under a dictator in order to someday maybe have a classless stateless society?

How is such a society worth such a high price.

 

[Dirk the Daring]

Are Americans Who Admire Socialism and Communism Miseducated or Stupid?​

Are Americans Who Admire Socialism and Communism Miseducated or Stupid? - Black Community News
By Walter Williams -- A recent Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation survey found that 51 percent of American millennials would rather live in a socialist or communist country than in a capitalist country. Only 42 percent prefer the latter (Forty-Four Percent of Millennials Prefer Socialism. Do They Know What It Means?). Twenty-five percent of millennials who know who Vladimir Lenin was view him favorably. Lenin was the first premier of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Half of millennials have never heard of Communist Mao Zedong, who ruled China from 1949 to 1959 and was responsible for the deaths of 45 million Chinese people.… The number of people who died at the hands of Josef Stalin may be as high as 62 million. However, almost one-third of millennials think former President George W. Bush is responsible for more killings than Stalin (How Many Millennials Think Bush Killed More Than Stalin). By the way, Adolf Hitler, head of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, was responsible for the deaths of about 20 million people. The Nazis come in as a poor third in terms of history’s most prolific mass murderers. According to professor Rudolph Rummel’s research, the 20th century, mankind’s most brutal century, saw 262 million people’s lives destroyed at the hands of their own governments (20th Century Democide)…. Young people who weren’t alive during World War II and its Cold War aftermath might be forgiven for not knowing the horrors of socialism. Some of their beliefs represent their having been indoctrinated by their K-12 teachers and college professors. There was such leftist hate for former President George W. Bush that it’s not out of the question that those 32 percent of millennials were taught by their teachers and professors that Bush murdered more people than Stalin.... America’s communists, socialists and Marxists have little knowledge of socialist history. Bradley Birzer, a professor of history at Hillsdale College, explains this in an article for The American Conservative titled “Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins.” Joseph Goebbels wrote in 1925, “It would be better for us to end our existence under Bolshevism than to endure slavery under capitalism.” This Nazi sentiment might be shared by Sen. Bernie Sanders and his comrade Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Goebbels added, “I think it is terrible that we and the Communists are.... Cold War aftermath might be forgiven for not knowing the horrors of socialism. Some of their beliefs represent their having been indoctrinated by their K-12 teachers and college professors. There was such leftist hate for former President George W. Bush that it’s not out of the question that those 32 percent of millennials were taught by their teachers and professors that Bush murdered more people than Stalin.... America’s communists, socialists and Marxists have little knowledge of socialist history. Bradley Birzer, a professor of history at Hillsdale College, explains this in an article for The American Conservative titled “Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins.” Joseph Goebbels wrote in 1925, “It would be better for us to end our existence under Bolshevism than to endure slavery. This Nazi sentiment might be shared by Sen. Bernie Sanders and his comrade Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Goebbels added, “I think it is terrible that we and the Communists are bashing in each other’s heads” (Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins)…. Are Americans who admire the world’s most brutal regimes miseducated or stupid? Or do they have some kind of devious agenda?


~~~~~~
If Socialism is such an ideal utopia of sunshine, lollipops and everything wonderful then why was the damn Berlin Wall built in the first place? Why all the positive Hype by the biased media for Venezuela that is suffering hyper-inflation, people starving and seeking to leave despite the fact that before the Chavez - Marxist Socialist takeover was the richest country in South America. (Venezuela Before Chávez: Anatomy of an Economic Collapse Edited by Ricardo Hausmann and Francisco R. RodrÃ*guez).
Millennials today are the results decades of infiltration by socialist/communist propagandists posing as educators inculcating brainwashing children from their pre-school training forward. Ideological Marxist Socialist pseudo-educators have revised, rewritten history, misrepresented fact and inserted Marxist Socialism into every classroom. The brainwashed are taught that government should provide them with everything in life without any contribution from them. They are a generation of takers. They don't want to work or think. They believe they are owed something. In answer to Dr. Williams’ question, I would say mislead, lied too and stupid. An innately inquisitive intelligent person can, and probably will overcome faulty teaching. A sensible person can eventually wake up to reality. Those who can’t are simply stupid.
Remember kindergarten children taught to sing the praises of Barack Hussein Obama. This was not only done with the children in the video, it was widely done.
School children sing praises to their savior Obama

Yes

 

[Soupnazi630]

Communism and socialism are failures of the past not developments of the future. If someone comes up with something better fine but that is not communism or socialism.

Moving from a competitive economic system to one that is cooperative would be an evolution of human development and is a defining quality of Marxist thought. It is the future......if we have any.

Wrong.

The defining quality of Marxist thought is tyranny and oppression. Cooperation is something which is strictly and exclusively voluntary based on individual volitional choice. When it is forced it is no longer cooperation at all it is slavery which is the essence of marxist thought.

Slavery is a regressive step backwards in human development

There is nothing oppressive or tyrannical about Marxism. It is simply a different way of organizing the way we produce the things that we use. It is actually less tyrannical than capitalism.
You've been conditioned your entire life to view the economy from only perspective. You can't see that it is the capitalists who enforce, with violence, their way of doing things.

Wrong

Marx himself proves you wrong.

Marx demands despotism and tyranny over others.

Marx clearly stated his vision demands dictatorship of the proletariat which means tyranny.

A dictator is a dictator is a dictator and they are all tyrannical even if they come from the proletariat.

It is not a different way of organizing production it is in fact a different way of FORCING production. Which is precisely what seizing the means of production is about.

First you seize it by force then you force it to function a certain way with workers who have to work.

That is slavery.

I cannot see mythology.

There is no force in trading pay for labor no matter how much you lie to the contrary.

That is why capitalism is morally superior to your regressive and outdated system. Capitalism is based on free will, marxism is based on violence.

You can deny those facts all day but you cannot refute then as they come from Marx himself

The dictatorship of the proletariat is not tyranny, it is an end to tyranny. Marx explains that you live in a dictatorship now in capitalist society. You've been conditioned to it so you don't see it or you don't think of it in this way, but it is there. Marx's dictatorship of the proletariat seeks to bring an end to the tyranny already imposed on society by the ruling class.

"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch."
The German Ideology. Karl Marx 1845

Saying that dictatorship is an end to tyranny is a contradiction

Contradictions by there very nature do not and cannot exist.

Therefore Marx was either a fool or a liar. He was a know liar since he later admitted that the dictatorship would be despotic.

Sorry you are prove wrong he meant tyranny under the dictatorship of the proletariat.

In addition claiming others are conditioned is nothing more than a backhanded admission that you are wrong. You cannot prove this conditioning or offer an example you can only and strictly repeat your claim

Any attempt to follow Marx has ended in tyranny oppression and genocide. But capitalism has oppressed no one. The wealthiest capitalists have never used force on me. Not one wealthy capitalist has ever made me or you do anything.

History and reality prove you wrong. You do not have a special insight and neither did Marx. Neither of you have vision which others lack.

Capitalism is necessary for human freedom.

Marx said dictatorship and he meant dictatorship which means tyranny whether it is of the proletariat or some other class.

That is fact.

Claiming others are conditioned by definition acknowledges that fact and represents your lack of intellect.

No egalitarian, classless and stateless society is worth the price of living under a dictatorship and waiting for it to whither away.

This is why Marx remains one of histories greatest liars and supremely evil bastard.

 

[Markle]

There is nothing oppressive or tyrannical about Marxism. It is simply a different way of organizing the way we produce the things that we use. It is actually less tyrannical than capitalism.
You've been conditioned your entire life to view the economy from only perspective. You can't see that it is the capitalists who enforce, with violence, their way of doing things.

Yep, just ask Vladimir Lenin and modified by Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse-tung. They would have each told you that there is nothing oppressive or tyrannical about Marxism. What more can you ask?

 

[Tehon]

Moving from a competitive economic system to one that is cooperative would be an evolution of human development and is a defining quality of Marxist thought. It is the future......if we have any.

Wrong.

The defining quality of Marxist thought is tyranny and oppression. Cooperation is something which is strictly and exclusively voluntary based on individual volitional choice. When it is forced it is no longer cooperation at all it is slavery which is the essence of marxist thought.

Slavery is a regressive step backwards in human development

There is nothing oppressive or tyrannical about Marxism. It is simply a different way of organizing the way we produce the things that we use. It is actually less tyrannical than capitalism.
You've been conditioned your entire life to view the economy from only perspective. You can't see that it is the capitalists who enforce, with violence, their way of doing things.

Wrong

Marx himself proves you wrong.

Marx demands despotism and tyranny over others.

Marx clearly stated his vision demands dictatorship of the proletariat which means tyranny.

A dictator is a dictator is a dictator and they are all tyrannical even if they come from the proletariat.

It is not a different way of organizing production it is in fact a different way of FORCING production. Which is precisely what seizing the means of production is about.

First you seize it by force then you force it to function a certain way with workers who have to work.

That is slavery.

I cannot see mythology.

There is no force in trading pay for labor no matter how much you lie to the contrary.

That is why capitalism is morally superior to your regressive and outdated system. Capitalism is based on free will, marxism is based on violence.

You can deny those facts all day but you cannot refute then as they come from Marx himself

The dictatorship of the proletariat is not tyranny, it is an end to tyranny. Marx explains that you live in a dictatorship now in capitalist society. You've been conditioned to it so you don't see it or you don't think of it in this way, but it is there. Marx's dictatorship of the proletariat seeks to bring an end to the tyranny already imposed on society by the ruling class.

"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch."
The German Ideology. Karl Marx 1845

The dictatorship of the proletariat is despotism and tyranny which is precisely what Marx meant.

One does not remove tyranny from dictatorship by calling it of the proletariat and even Marx acknowledged that fact.

Rulers mean rulers regardless of what class they come from and your while quotation is meaningless contradictory crap which is also self defeating.

Now we know Marx meant tyranny and that is fact. You know it as well.

Stop the denial and lies and answer this.

Why should I live under a dictator in order to someday maybe have a classless stateless society?

How is such a society worth such a high price.

Stop the denial and lies and answer this.

Why should I live under a dictator in order to someday maybe have a classless stateless society?

I already answered that question in my previous post.

You are already living under a dictatorship now, in the very sense that Marx was using the phrase.

The question isn't why should you, you already are. The question is, why do you not object to it?

 

[Tehon]

Capitalism is necessary for human freedom.

Capitalism was necessary for human development and for many it provides enormous amounts of freedom. But it hasn't liberated everyone in capitalist countries, nor does it tolerate social systems in foreign countries that compete with it. It is not truly emancipating.

In addition claiming others are conditioned is nothing more than a backhanded admission that you are wrong. You cannot prove this conditioning or offer an example you can only and strictly repeat your claim

You can't be so naive to think you haven't been conditioned by the society you live in. That is truly absurd.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.

The defining quality of Marxist thought is tyranny and oppression. Cooperation is something which is strictly and exclusively voluntary based on individual volitional choice. When it is forced it is no longer cooperation at all it is slavery which is the essence of marxist thought.

Slavery is a regressive step backwards in human development

There is nothing oppressive or tyrannical about Marxism. It is simply a different way of organizing the way we produce the things that we use. It is actually less tyrannical than capitalism.
You've been conditioned your entire life to view the economy from only perspective. You can't see that it is the capitalists who enforce, with violence, their way of doing things.

Wrong

Marx himself proves you wrong.

Marx demands despotism and tyranny over others.

Marx clearly stated his vision demands dictatorship of the proletariat which means tyranny.

A dictator is a dictator is a dictator and they are all tyrannical even if they come from the proletariat.

It is not a different way of organizing production it is in fact a different way of FORCING production. Which is precisely what seizing the means of production is about.

First you seize it by force then you force it to function a certain way with workers who have to work.

That is slavery.

I cannot see mythology.

There is no force in trading pay for labor no matter how much you lie to the contrary.

That is why capitalism is morally superior to your regressive and outdated system. Capitalism is based on free will, marxism is based on violence.

You can deny those facts all day but you cannot refute then as they come from Marx himself

The dictatorship of the proletariat is not tyranny, it is an end to tyranny. Marx explains that you live in a dictatorship now in capitalist society. You've been conditioned to it so you don't see it or you don't think of it in this way, but it is there. Marx's dictatorship of the proletariat seeks to bring an end to the tyranny already imposed on society by the ruling class.

"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch."
The German Ideology. Karl Marx 1845

The dictatorship of the proletariat is despotism and tyranny which is precisely what Marx meant.

One does not remove tyranny from dictatorship by calling it of the proletariat and even Marx acknowledged that fact.

Rulers mean rulers regardless of what class they come from and your while quotation is meaningless contradictory crap which is also self defeating.

Now we know Marx meant tyranny and that is fact. You know it as well.

Stop the denial and lies and answer this.

Why should I live under a dictator in order to someday maybe have a classless stateless society?

How is such a society worth such a high price.

Stop the denial and lies and answer this.

Why should I live under a dictator in order to someday maybe have a classless stateless society?

I already answered that question in my previous post.

You are already living under a dictatorship now, in the very sense that Marx was using the phrase.

The question isn't why should you, you already are. The question is, why do you not object to it?

No you did not answer it answer it now.

You are denying reality and proving to be a liar

We are not living in a dictatorship now in any sense of the word especially marxs sense.

Now answer up and explain what is superior about a dictatorship of the proletariat ?

Explain why a classless stateless society is worth living under a dictator to achieve?

Stop lying and answer the question

 

[Soupnazi630]

Capitalism is necessary for human freedom.

Capitalism was necessary for human development and for many it provides enormous amounts of freedom. But it hasn't liberated everyone in capitalist countries, nor does it tolerate social systems in foreign countries that compete with it. It is not truly emancipating.

In addition claiming others are conditioned is nothing more than a backhanded admission that you are wrong. You cannot prove this conditioning or offer an example you can only and strictly repeat your claim

You can't be so naive to think you haven't been conditioned by the society you live in. That is truly absurd.

You are conditioned I am not and that is proven by your denial of reality.

We do not live in a dictatoshop period and that is absolute fact which you cannot refute

Now answer my question which you ran from like a coward.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Capitalism is necessary for human freedom.

Capitalism was necessary for human development and for many it provides enormous amounts of freedom. But it hasn't liberated everyone in capitalist countries, nor does it tolerate social systems in foreign countries that compete with it. It is not truly emancipating.

In addition claiming others are conditioned is nothing more than a backhanded admission that you are wrong. You cannot prove this conditioning or offer an example you can only and strictly repeat your claim

You can't be so naive to think you haven't been conditioned by the society you live in. That is truly absurd.

You cannot be so massively brainwashed as to think your claims are true

Answer my questions.

You did NOT answer them.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Are Americans Who Admire Socialism and Communism Miseducated or Stupid?​

Are Americans Who Admire Socialism and Communism Miseducated or Stupid? - Black Community News
By Walter Williams -- A recent Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation survey found that 51 percent of American millennials would rather live in a socialist or communist country than in a capitalist country. Only 42 percent prefer the latter (Forty-Four Percent of Millennials Prefer Socialism. Do They Know What It Means?). Twenty-five percent of millennials who know who Vladimir Lenin was view him favorably. Lenin was the first premier of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Half of millennials have never heard of Communist Mao Zedong, who ruled China from 1949 to 1959 and was responsible for the deaths of 45 million Chinese people.… The number of people who died at the hands of Josef Stalin may be as high as 62 million. However, almost one-third of millennials think former President George W. Bush is responsible for more killings than Stalin (How Many Millennials Think Bush Killed More Than Stalin). By the way, Adolf Hitler, head of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, was responsible for the deaths of about 20 million people. The Nazis come in as a poor third in terms of history’s most prolific mass murderers. According to professor Rudolph Rummel’s research, the 20th century, mankind’s most brutal century, saw 262 million people’s lives destroyed at the hands of their own governments (20th Century Democide)…. Young people who weren’t alive during World War II and its Cold War aftermath might be forgiven for not knowing the horrors of socialism. Some of their beliefs represent their having been indoctrinated by their K-12 teachers and college professors. There was such leftist hate for former President George W. Bush that it’s not out of the question that those 32 percent of millennials were taught by their teachers and professors that Bush murdered more people than Stalin.... America’s communists, socialists and Marxists have little knowledge of socialist history. Bradley Birzer, a professor of history at Hillsdale College, explains this in an article for The American Conservative titled “Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins.” Joseph Goebbels wrote in 1925, “It would be better for us to end our existence under Bolshevism than to endure slavery under capitalism.” This Nazi sentiment might be shared by Sen. Bernie Sanders and his comrade Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Goebbels added, “I think it is terrible that we and the Communists are.... Cold War aftermath might be forgiven for not knowing the horrors of socialism. Some of their beliefs represent their having been indoctrinated by their K-12 teachers and college professors. There was such leftist hate for former President George W. Bush that it’s not out of the question that those 32 percent of millennials were taught by their teachers and professors that Bush murdered more people than Stalin.... America’s communists, socialists and Marxists have little knowledge of socialist history. Bradley Birzer, a professor of history at Hillsdale College, explains this in an article for The American Conservative titled “Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins.” Joseph Goebbels wrote in 1925, “It would be better for us to end our existence under Bolshevism than to endure slavery. This Nazi sentiment might be shared by Sen. Bernie Sanders and his comrade Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Goebbels added, “I think it is terrible that we and the Communists are bashing in each other’s heads” (Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins)…. Are Americans who admire the world’s most brutal regimes miseducated or stupid? Or do they have some kind of devious agenda?


~~~~~~
If Socialism is such an ideal utopia of sunshine, lollipops and everything wonderful then why was the damn Berlin Wall built in the first place? Why all the positive Hype by the biased media for Venezuela that is suffering hyper-inflation, people starving and seeking to leave despite the fact that before the Chavez - Marxist Socialist takeover was the richest country in South America. (Venezuela Before Chávez: Anatomy of an Economic Collapse Edited by Ricardo Hausmann and Francisco R. RodrÃ*guez).
Millennials today are the results decades of infiltration by socialist/communist propagandists posing as educators inculcating brainwashing children from their pre-school training forward. Ideological Marxist Socialist pseudo-educators have revised, rewritten history, misrepresented fact and inserted Marxist Socialism into every classroom. The brainwashed are taught that government should provide them with everything in life without any contribution from them. They are a generation of takers. They don't want to work or think. They believe they are owed something. In answer to Dr. Williams’ question, I would say mislead, lied too and stupid. An innately inquisitive intelligent person can, and probably will overcome faulty teaching. A sensible person can eventually wake up to reality. Those who can’t are simply stupid.
Remember kindergarten children taught to sing the praises of Barack Hussein Obama. This was not only done with the children in the video, it was widely done.
School children sing praises to their savior Obama

Conservatives who start threads that fail as strawman fallacies are certainly miseducated and stupid – they’re also liars, this thread being one of many examples.

Maybe Jones can tell us where Socialism has ever worked? It hasnt...and won't

Canada, Norway, Sweden and Finland are forms of Socialist Countries...

Now are they like the former Soviet Union?

No.

I doubt anything will come close to that barbaric genocidal nation in our life.

Also Communism and Socialism are two different forms and even though you can birth Communism from Socialism you should never view the two as being exactly the same.

Final note on Communism it will never work because of three things:

Jealousy

Greed

Sloth


All humans are greedy, jealous and most are lazy, so there you have the reason why Communism will never work unless you have a gun pointed at the head of the person forcing them to obey the rules of Communism.

Also individualism will also be the death of Communism because you can never force someone to help those they do not want to help and they will put their clan before another, so in reality America would be a miserable failed State of Communism.

My apologies for the rant.

 

[Deno]

Are Americans Who Admire Socialism and Communism Miseducated or Stupid?​

Are Americans Who Admire Socialism and Communism Miseducated or Stupid? - Black Community News
By Walter Williams -- A recent Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation survey found that 51 percent of American millennials would rather live in a socialist or communist country than in a capitalist country. Only 42 percent prefer the latter (Forty-Four Percent of Millennials Prefer Socialism. Do They Know What It Means?). Twenty-five percent of millennials who know who Vladimir Lenin was view him favorably. Lenin was the first premier of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Half of millennials have never heard of Communist Mao Zedong, who ruled China from 1949 to 1959 and was responsible for the deaths of 45 million Chinese people.… The number of people who died at the hands of Josef Stalin may be as high as 62 million. However, almost one-third of millennials think former President George W. Bush is responsible for more killings than Stalin (How Many Millennials Think Bush Killed More Than Stalin). By the way, Adolf Hitler, head of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, was responsible for the deaths of about 20 million people. The Nazis come in as a poor third in terms of history’s most prolific mass murderers. According to professor Rudolph Rummel’s research, the 20th century, mankind’s most brutal century, saw 262 million people’s lives destroyed at the hands of their own governments (20th Century Democide)…. Young people who weren’t alive during World War II and its Cold War aftermath might be forgiven for not knowing the horrors of socialism. Some of their beliefs represent their having been indoctrinated by their K-12 teachers and college professors. There was such leftist hate for former President George W. Bush that it’s not out of the question that those 32 percent of millennials were taught by their teachers and professors that Bush murdered more people than Stalin.... America’s communists, socialists and Marxists have little knowledge of socialist history. Bradley Birzer, a professor of history at Hillsdale College, explains this in an article for The American Conservative titled “Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins.” Joseph Goebbels wrote in 1925, “It would be better for us to end our existence under Bolshevism than to endure slavery under capitalism.” This Nazi sentiment might be shared by Sen. Bernie Sanders and his comrade Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Goebbels added, “I think it is terrible that we and the Communists are.... Cold War aftermath might be forgiven for not knowing the horrors of socialism. Some of their beliefs represent their having been indoctrinated by their K-12 teachers and college professors. There was such leftist hate for former President George W. Bush that it’s not out of the question that those 32 percent of millennials were taught by their teachers and professors that Bush murdered more people than Stalin.... America’s communists, socialists and Marxists have little knowledge of socialist history. Bradley Birzer, a professor of history at Hillsdale College, explains this in an article for The American Conservative titled “Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins.” Joseph Goebbels wrote in 1925, “It would be better for us to end our existence under Bolshevism than to endure slavery. This Nazi sentiment might be shared by Sen. Bernie Sanders and his comrade Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Goebbels added, “I think it is terrible that we and the Communists are bashing in each other’s heads” (Socialists and Fascists Have Always Been Kissing Cousins)…. Are Americans who admire the world’s most brutal regimes miseducated or stupid? Or do they have some kind of devious agenda?


~~~~~~
If Socialism is such an ideal utopia of sunshine, lollipops and everything wonderful then why was the damn Berlin Wall built in the first place? Why all the positive Hype by the biased media for Venezuela that is suffering hyper-inflation, people starving and seeking to leave despite the fact that before the Chavez - Marxist Socialist takeover was the richest country in South America. (Venezuela Before Chávez: Anatomy of an Economic Collapse Edited by Ricardo Hausmann and Francisco R. RodrÃ*guez).
Millennials today are the results decades of infiltration by socialist/communist propagandists posing as educators inculcating brainwashing children from their pre-school training forward. Ideological Marxist Socialist pseudo-educators have revised, rewritten history, misrepresented fact and inserted Marxist Socialism into every classroom. The brainwashed are taught that government should provide them with everything in life without any contribution from them. They are a generation of takers. They don't want to work or think. They believe they are owed something. In answer to Dr. Williams’ question, I would say mislead, lied too and stupid. An innately inquisitive intelligent person can, and probably will overcome faulty teaching. A sensible person can eventually wake up to reality. Those who can’t are simply stupid.
Remember kindergarten children taught to sing the praises of Barack Hussein Obama. This was not only done with the children in the video, it was widely done.
School children sing praises to their savior Obama

Both…..

 

[Tehon]

We are not living in a dictatorship now in any sense of the word especially marxs sense.

Of course we are.

"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch."
The German Ideology. Karl Marx 1845

Now answer up and explain what is superior about a dictatorship of the proletariat ?

The dictatorship of the proletariat is the time when we the people rise up and take control of our country.

"Freedom consists in converting the state from an organ superimposed upon society into one completely subordinate to it.."
Critique of the Gotha Programme-- IV

"That, in fact, by the word "state" is meant the government machine, or the state insofar as it forms a special organism separated from society through division of labor"
Critique of the Gotha Programme-- IV

It's when we the people stop pretending that voting once every couple of years for ruling class leaders is going to solve our problems.

We need to stop pretending that "demanding things which have meaning only in a democratic republic from a state which is nothing but a police-guarded military despotism, embellished with parliamentary forms, alloyed with a feudal admixture, already influenced by the bourgeoisie, and bureaucratically carpentered, and then to assure this state into the bargain that one imagines one will be able to force such things upon it "by legal means"."
Critique of the Gotha Programme-- IV

 

[Tehon]

We are not living in a dictatorship now in any sense of the word especially marxs sense.

Of course we are.

"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch."
The German Ideology. Karl Marx 1845

Now answer up and explain what is superior about a dictatorship of the proletariat ?

The dictatorship of the proletariat is the time when we the people rise up and take control of our country.

"Freedom consists in converting the state from an organ superimposed upon society into one completely subordinate to it.."
Critique of the Gotha Programme-- IV

"That, in fact, by the word "state" is meant the government machine, or the state insofar as it forms a special organism separated from society through division of labor"
Critique of the Gotha Programme-- IV

It's when we the people stop pretending that voting once every couple of years for ruling class leaders is going to solve our problems.

We need to stop pretending that "demanding things which have meaning only in a democratic republic from a state which is nothing but a police-guarded military despotism, embellished with parliamentary forms, alloyed with a feudal admixture, already influenced by the bourgeoisie, and bureaucratically carpentered, and then to assure this state into the bargain that one imagines one will be able to force such things upon it "by legal means"."
Critique of the Gotha Programme-- IV

All of this that Marx is saying is saying is exactly echoed in the popular support for Donald Trump.