AR15s are not military grade... not even close

[Rustic]

A Smith & Wesson m&p15 is extremely reliable, light and accurate for under 500 bucks.
It checks all of the box’s for a Starter sporting rifle.
In .223 It can be used for anything from squirrels to mule deer here in western South Dakota legally. It has no recoil so the kiddos will not develop a flinch. It is basically weatherproof, Smith Wesson puts a great coating(Melonite coated)on them.

The cost of ammo versus the 22LR makes the Model 60 the better choice. While others were ground hog hunting with their 223s, 220 swifts, 22.250s, I was doing the same thing with a Mauser Shavetail single shot 22lr match rifle at the same ranges. I will admit that before everyone showed up, I placed small flags every 50yds for wind speed and direction. They didn't have to worry about that so much but I did. I only fired when everything was perfect. Until they saw me shoot a few times, I got ragged over the scarf over my left eye. Teach a kid to shoot like that is priceless.

The county sheriff here puts on youth shooting classes several times a year for 4-h, NRA youth outreach, school Elective classes, FFA, etc. I sponsor them every time I can.
It’s the least I can do, I do sell firearms to the local sheriffs department and to the two military bases nearby for the officers sidearms and For their personal firearms.
The Smith and Wesson M&p15 is a do-it-all sporting rifle for western South Dakota that’s why it’s so popular in my store.
And anyone can afford it

It wouldn't work out so well here. Seems the Prairie Dogs are protected, the Coyotes stay hidden well, the deer are too big and the ranges for the deer is just too far. And I want a rifle that can handle elk as well. Ever try and hit a Mountain Sheep with a Rock? That would be about the same thing using a 223 no matter what it's fired on. Like one person said, he preferred the 270 while I prefer the 308. Others might go for the 7mm and others. But you have better have something that can take something down at 500 yds. In fact, I site in at 250 yds and just have to slightly compensate with the 308. Or no compensation at all unless I am entering the Range of the Gods (880 yds or more). The 223 just isn't versatile enough for us Rocky Mountain Bred Boys.

Personally the 223 is not my first choice, But for kids it’s a wonderful choice.
Super cheap, abundant, no recoil, very accurate, short action, light weight...
I like the 308 and 6.8 spc, between Those two will cover anything in North America.
Because shot placement is everything...

The 7mm-08 might be the next best thing though, Ballistic coefficient is off the charts it’s super cheap anymore and it’s a short action and no recoil.

On a side note. I suggest you leave the big bears in Alaska alone if that's all you have. Chances are, the most you are going to do on the first few shots is to piss it off and invite it to dinner with you being the main course. I was backup rifle when I was stationed in AK. I used a 444 marlin. Not that great at long range but you aren't long range for a big Brown or Griz. The other Backup used a 458 Winchester Mag. We backed up people with the pea shooters (anything less than 330 cal). I did get to see just how deadly a professional Bow Hunter was with his bow. He waited until the bear was partially raised up when he hit him in the top of the skull. Neither of our rifles could have penetrated at that spot. His arrow went in about 2 feet with the nastiest expanding arrow head I have ever seen. He never was in serious trouble. I was off to one side and my partner was off to the other side and we were aimed at the Bears knees. The rule for us was 25 feet or 25 seconds regardless of what the hunter does. That way the hunter still gets the kill. We got a copy of the film he made of the kill. And there he was, just him and his cameraman, all alone...............

I guess it depends on the individual, I’ve met a lot of Alaskans Over the years hunting and fishing up there. There are so many have one rifle 30-06/.308 for everything.
I’ve shot a few bear, moose and sheep with my .308, never a problem.
But I’ve also know some people that have 460 Weatherbys too.
I meant one fella up there and has lived there at least 30 years, He has a .22 and that’s it. He shoots moose in the head and that’s why he lives off of basically.
A lot of the natives up there are more afraid of the moose than the bears...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The cost of ammo versus the 22LR makes the Model 60 the better choice. While others were ground hog hunting with their 223s, 220 swifts, 22.250s, I was doing the same thing with a Mauser Shavetail single shot 22lr match rifle at the same ranges. I will admit that before everyone showed up, I placed small flags every 50yds for wind speed and direction. They didn't have to worry about that so much but I did. I only fired when everything was perfect. Until they saw me shoot a few times, I got ragged over the scarf over my left eye. Teach a kid to shoot like that is priceless.

The county sheriff here puts on youth shooting classes several times a year for 4-h, NRA youth outreach, school Elective classes, FFA, etc. I sponsor them every time I can.
It’s the least I can do, I do sell firearms to the local sheriffs department and to the two military bases nearby for the officers sidearms and For their personal firearms.
The Smith and Wesson M&p15 is a do-it-all sporting rifle for western South Dakota that’s why it’s so popular in my store.
And anyone can afford it

It wouldn't work out so well here. Seems the Prairie Dogs are protected, the Coyotes stay hidden well, the deer are too big and the ranges for the deer is just too far. And I want a rifle that can handle elk as well. Ever try and hit a Mountain Sheep with a Rock? That would be about the same thing using a 223 no matter what it's fired on. Like one person said, he preferred the 270 while I prefer the 308. Others might go for the 7mm and others. But you have better have something that can take something down at 500 yds. In fact, I site in at 250 yds and just have to slightly compensate with the 308. Or no compensation at all unless I am entering the Range of the Gods (880 yds or more). The 223 just isn't versatile enough for us Rocky Mountain Bred Boys.

Personally the 223 is not my first choice, But for kids it’s a wonderful choice.
Super cheap, abundant, no recoil, very accurate, short action, light weight...
I like the 308 and 6.8 spc, between Those two will cover anything in North America.
Because shot placement is everything...

The 7mm-08 might be the next best thing though, Ballistic coefficient is off the charts it’s super cheap anymore and it’s a short action and no recoil.

On a side note. I suggest you leave the big bears in Alaska alone if that's all you have. Chances are, the most you are going to do on the first few shots is to piss it off and invite it to dinner with you being the main course. I was backup rifle when I was stationed in AK. I used a 444 marlin. Not that great at long range but you aren't long range for a big Brown or Griz. The other Backup used a 458 Winchester Mag. We backed up people with the pea shooters (anything less than 330 cal). I did get to see just how deadly a professional Bow Hunter was with his bow. He waited until the bear was partially raised up when he hit him in the top of the skull. Neither of our rifles could have penetrated at that spot. His arrow went in about 2 feet with the nastiest expanding arrow head I have ever seen. He never was in serious trouble. I was off to one side and my partner was off to the other side and we were aimed at the Bears knees. The rule for us was 25 feet or 25 seconds regardless of what the hunter does. That way the hunter still gets the kill. We got a copy of the film he made of the kill. And there he was, just him and his cameraman, all alone...............

I guess it depends on the individual, I’ve met a lot of Alaskans Over the years hunting and fishing up there. There are so many have one rifle 30-06/.308 for everything.
I’ve shot a few bear, moose and sheep with my .308, never a problem.
But I’ve also know some people that have 460 Weatherbys too.
I meant one fella up there and has lived there at least 30 years, He has a .22 and that’s it. He shoots moose in the head and that’s why he lives off of basically.
A lot of the natives up there are more afraid of the moose than the bears...

The last thing you want to do is laugh at one of the Northern Brothers about his 22. Most own 243s and use it for almost everything. But one thing they don't do is shoot a friggin bear with one of them unless they absolutely have to. I was involved in a mass hunting of a wounded Brown. Some moron shot it with a pistol. The bear killed him and then killed some livestock. It was being very, very mean and it would have killed a human again if left alone. One moron on the hunt brought an ought 6. He went off alone. The rest of us stayed in a pack. The bear found him first. He found the bear right outside of the Den or Lair. There were 6 spent shells, his rifle and a trail of blood into the lair. We found most of him and a dead bear. The problem with not bringing enough fire power is that you can kill the bear and it can stay alive long enough to walk up to you and plant flowers in your hair.

 

[Rosy]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Does it matter if they are not military grade if retards use them because they believe that they are?

Blame the individual not the firearms…

If plutonium waste were for sale, and someone bought it and killed an entire city full of people, would you blame the person who bought, or who sold the plutonium waste.

Firearms have no control over people, and are constitutionally protected because they are small arms… You do realize the difference between small arms and nuclear weapons?

Firearms have complete control of your mind.
The second amendment never mentions small arms, it just says arms, the arms needed to form a capable militia, do you think you can defeat an invading military that has nukes with small arms

 

[eagle1462010]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Does it matter if they are not military grade if retards use them because they believe that they are?

Blame the individual not the firearms…

If plutonium waste were for sale, and someone bought it and killed an entire city full of people, would you blame the person who bought, or who sold the plutonium waste.

Firearms have no control over people, and are constitutionally protected because they are small arms… You do realize the difference between small arms and nuclear weapons?

Firearms have complete control of your mind.
The second amendment never mentions small arms, it just says arms, the arms needed to form a capable militia, do you think you can defeat an invading military that has nukes with small arms

What a stupid thing to say.......why would they invade when they are firing Nukes.............LOL

And which country is going to cross the ocean against our Navy and our Air Capabilities............answer............None.

 

[airplanemechanic]

I repeat:

Hey Dipshit, are they effective killing machines? Do you believe mentally disturbed people should own an auto or semi auto gun with a large (30 round) magazine?

Yes or No!

Define "mentally disturbed" and define exactly how you come about to that conclusion. It's way too broad as defined.

For that matter, define "effective killing machine." I mean cars are effective at killing 40,000 people a year, but none without the help of a driver.

 

[Rustic]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Does it matter if they are not military grade if retards use them because they believe that they are?

Blame the individual not the firearms…

If plutonium waste were for sale, and someone bought it and killed an entire city full of people, would you blame the person who bought, or who sold the plutonium waste.

Firearms have no control over people, and are constitutionally protected because they are small arms… You do realize the difference between small arms and nuclear weapons?

Firearms have complete control of your mind.
The second amendment never mentions small arms, it just says arms, the arms needed to form a capable militia, do you think you can defeat an invading military that has nukes with small arms

Lol
Firearm ownership is none of the federal government’s business

 

[Rosy]

Does it matter if they are not military grade if retards use them because they believe that they are?

Blame the individual not the firearms…

If plutonium waste were for sale, and someone bought it and killed an entire city full of people, would you blame the person who bought, or who sold the plutonium waste.

Firearms have no control over people, and are constitutionally protected because they are small arms… You do realize the difference between small arms and nuclear weapons?

Firearms have complete control of your mind.
The second amendment never mentions small arms, it just says arms, the arms needed to form a capable militia, do you think you can defeat an invading military that has nukes with small arms

What a stupid thing to say.......why would they invade when they are firing Nukes.............LOL

And which country is going to cross the ocean against our Navy and our Air Capabilities............answer............None.

So you think that small arms are going to protect you from nuclear powers. The second amendment is already repealed and u r too dumb to know..

Madison wanted u 2 be fully armed, not with toy ar15s either

Think

 

[Rosy]

Does it matter if they are not military grade if retards use them because they believe that they are?

Blame the individual not the firearms…

If plutonium waste were for sale, and someone bought it and killed an entire city full of people, would you blame the person who bought, or who sold the plutonium waste.

Firearms have no control over people, and are constitutionally protected because they are small arms… You do realize the difference between small arms and nuclear weapons?

Firearms have complete control of your mind.
The second amendment never mentions small arms, it just says arms, the arms needed to form a capable militia, do you think you can defeat an invading military that has nukes with small arms

Lol
Firearm ownership is none of the federal government’s business

Then you do not respect the constitution

 

[Rustic]

Blame the individual not the firearms…

If plutonium waste were for sale, and someone bought it and killed an entire city full of people, would you blame the person who bought, or who sold the plutonium waste.

Firearms have no control over people, and are constitutionally protected because they are small arms… You do realize the difference between small arms and nuclear weapons?

Firearms have complete control of your mind.
The second amendment never mentions small arms, it just says arms, the arms needed to form a capable militia, do you think you can defeat an invading military that has nukes with small arms

Lol
Firearm ownership is none of the federal government’s business

Then you do not respect the constitution

Lol
The constitution says firearm ownership is an absolute right, less someone fucks it up for themselves.
That is why firearm registration is absolutely unconstitutional

 

[Rosy]

If plutonium waste were for sale, and someone bought it and killed an entire city full of people, would you blame the person who bought, or who sold the plutonium waste.

Firearms have no control over people, and are constitutionally protected because they are small arms… You do realize the difference between small arms and nuclear weapons?

Firearms have complete control of your mind.
The second amendment never mentions small arms, it just says arms, the arms needed to form a capable militia, do you think you can defeat an invading military that has nukes with small arms

Lol
Firearm ownership is none of the federal government’s business

Then you do not respect the constitution

Lol
The constitution says firearm ownership is an absolute right, less someone fucks it up for themselves.
That is why firearm registration is absolutely unconstitutional

I fully support gun rights, what I am saying is that the ar15 is a toy, and that the govt keeps all the genuine weapons to itself, thus a2 is already meaningless

 

[SavannahMann]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

It is far more than that. The quality of the metals involved, the tolerances that the item must meet to qualify. Take a simple coffee cup. On Amazon or any other website you can find self heating cups by the dozen.

https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=self+h...lf+heating+coffee,aps,164&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_19

They’re expensive compared to other coffee mugs, but hey, they heat. But those are not Military Spec coffee mugs. Military Spec coffee mugs with a self heating option are really expensive.

Air Force puts the kibosh on the $1,300 coffee cup

Take a look at the mug. It looks like a reject from the 1950’s. But it meets FAA regulations for safe heating in an aircraft. It may seem like no big deal but fires on airplanes, especially flying gas tanks like the KC-10 are a really big, and really bad deal.

So what does military spec mean? I’ll give you an example. In the 1960’s the Navy was fitting out a lock out chamber that would be used for days on end by Deep Sea Divers who were going to be recovering equipment on the sea floor. One of the Scientists came forward and pointed out that instead of the several thousand dollar toilet, an obvious necessity for days locked in a room, they could use one from Sears for about twenty bucks.

They looked at the Sears option, and found it wouldn’t work. Among other problems, the material it was made from would become brittle at low temperatures. It is cold on the bottom of the sea, and the last thing anyone wanted was two or three guys trapped in a room while they depressurize with crap rolling along the floor for days. After the first use, you would have trouble getting the guys back in the room next time.

So the several thousand dollar option was the only choice. The famous thousand dollar ash trays of the late 1980’s. The glass for those ash trays was specially formulated and designed to break only into three pieces, this prevented glass shards from flying around in combat. I admit, they could have used aluminum or steel to put out their cigarettes. But there is usually a reason for these things. Sometimes a little weak, but a reason.

The coffee mugs we started with. They are not in high demand. The Manufacturer probably doesn’t make many of them in a year. So it’s sort of like a custom order special item. Yes, they can make it, but it isn’t something they make all the time. The people work on other things, and those other things probably fall behind while making the Military Specification heated coffee mug.

You can’t get a lot of the Military Tech stuff, no matter how much money you spend. Chubham armor, you can’t get it. Military grade encryption? It is not available for you. It is more than spending enough money to buy it, it is that the tech is restricted.

Do you think that the Beretta Pistols that the Military bought were essentially off the shelf options?

 

[Crepitus]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

It is far more than that. The quality of the metals involved, the tolerances that the item must meet to qualify. Take a simple coffee cup. On Amazon or any other website you can find self heating cups by the dozen.

https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=self+heating+coffee+mug&crid=26UQTF5ZRM9NL&sprefix=Self+heating+coffee,aps,164&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_19

They’re expensive compared to other coffee mugs, but hey, they heat. But those are not Military Spec coffee mugs. Military Spec coffee mugs with a self heating option are really expensive.

Air Force puts the kibosh on the $1,300 coffee cup

Take a look at the mug. It looks like a reject from the 1950’s. But it meets FAA regulations for safe heating in an aircraft. It may seem like no big deal but fires on airplanes, especially flying gas tanks like the KC-10 are a really big, and really bad deal.

So what does military spec mean? I’ll give you an example. In the 1960’s the Navy was fitting out a lock out chamber that would be used for days on end by Deep Sea Divers who were going to be recovering equipment on the sea floor. One of the Scientists came forward and pointed out that instead of the several thousand dollar toilet, an obvious necessity for days locked in a room, they could use one from Sears for about twenty bucks.

They looked at the Sears option, and found it wouldn’t work. Among other problems, the material it was made from would become brittle at low temperatures. It is cold on the bottom of the sea, and the last thing anyone wanted was two or three guys trapped in a room while they depressurize with crap rolling along the floor for days. After the first use, you would have trouble getting the guys back in the room next time.

So the several thousand dollar option was the only choice. The famous thousand dollar ash trays of the late 1980’s. The glass for those ash trays was specially formulated and designed to break only into three pieces, this prevented glass shards from flying around in combat. I admit, they could have used aluminum or steel to put out their cigarettes. But there is usually a reason for these things. Sometimes a little weak, but a reason.

The coffee mugs we started with. They are not in high demand. The Manufacturer probably doesn’t make many of them in a year. So it’s sort of like a custom order special item. Yes, they can make it, but it isn’t something they make all the time. The people work on other things, and those other things probably fall behind while making the Military Specification heated coffee mug.

You can’t get a lot of the Military Tech stuff, no matter how much money you spend. Chubham armor, you can’t get it. Military grade encryption? It is not available for you. It is more than spending enough money to buy it, it is that the tech is restricted.

Do you think that the Beretta Pistols that the Military bought were essentially off the shelf options?

Read the rest of the thread kid, I ain't going through all of that again.

 

[AZGAL]

Banning bump is important. Extreme weaponry belongs to the military and should not be used by macho maniacs to create mob rule. The mob exremists "vote" with violence. "Screw your optics, I'm going in,” wrote Robert Bowers, 46, on the social media site Gab and then he went in all commando after talking to his mob friends and he killed innocent people at a place of worship. He is seeking more glory and attention from the public as well. All places of worship must be safe.

 

[AZGAL]

Of course not. Mentally disturbed people should be in ASYLUMS. Not wandering the streets. Yes or no?

Unfortunately these violent extremists explode upon the innocent. There is a spectrum of mental illness and it is not like there is a way to identify who should be in an asylum.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

It is far more than that. The quality of the metals involved, the tolerances that the item must meet to qualify. Take a simple coffee cup. On Amazon or any other website you can find self heating cups by the dozen.

https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=self+heating+coffee+mug&crid=26UQTF5ZRM9NL&sprefix=Self+heating+coffee,aps,164&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_19

They’re expensive compared to other coffee mugs, but hey, they heat. But those are not Military Spec coffee mugs. Military Spec coffee mugs with a self heating option are really expensive.

Air Force puts the kibosh on the $1,300 coffee cup

Take a look at the mug. It looks like a reject from the 1950’s. But it meets FAA regulations for safe heating in an aircraft. It may seem like no big deal but fires on airplanes, especially flying gas tanks like the KC-10 are a really big, and really bad deal.

So what does military spec mean? I’ll give you an example. In the 1960’s the Navy was fitting out a lock out chamber that would be used for days on end by Deep Sea Divers who were going to be recovering equipment on the sea floor. One of the Scientists came forward and pointed out that instead of the several thousand dollar toilet, an obvious necessity for days locked in a room, they could use one from Sears for about twenty bucks.

They looked at the Sears option, and found it wouldn’t work. Among other problems, the material it was made from would become brittle at low temperatures. It is cold on the bottom of the sea, and the last thing anyone wanted was two or three guys trapped in a room while they depressurize with crap rolling along the floor for days. After the first use, you would have trouble getting the guys back in the room next time.

So the several thousand dollar option was the only choice. The famous thousand dollar ash trays of the late 1980’s. The glass for those ash trays was specially formulated and designed to break only into three pieces, this prevented glass shards from flying around in combat. I admit, they could have used aluminum or steel to put out their cigarettes. But there is usually a reason for these things. Sometimes a little weak, but a reason.

The coffee mugs we started with. They are not in high demand. The Manufacturer probably doesn’t make many of them in a year. So it’s sort of like a custom order special item. Yes, they can make it, but it isn’t something they make all the time. The people work on other things, and those other things probably fall behind while making the Military Specification heated coffee mug.

You can’t get a lot of the Military Tech stuff, no matter how much money you spend. Chubham armor, you can’t get it. Military grade encryption? It is not available for you. It is more than spending enough money to buy it, it is that the tech is restricted.

Do you think that the Beretta Pistols that the Military bought were essentially off the shelf options?

Actually, they were. Same goes for the pistol they replaced was a standard Ruger Police Special anyone could buy off the shelf.