AR15 Change to 16" barrel

[Ringel05]

It's a 5.56 NATO that can also chamber a .223. I did not realize how loud those things are, it would blow out your eardrums if you fired it inside a house. Even with a suppressor, I imagine it would still be really loud indoors. I thought with less recoil than a big bore gun it would be easier to handle, but the noise is way too much for home defense. I am rethinking what I really need.

About the only indoors firearm you can safely use without hearing protection is a .22. Just be aware of the fact that if you ever have to use a self defense firearm in an enclosed area your hearing is going to suffer at least temporarily. I have a 12 gauge and a Mak 9, both will cause my hearing to suffer if used without hearing protection indoors and out. That's just the way it is unless you keep hearing protection close at hand at all times indoors.

 

[task0778]

About the only indoors firearm you can safely use without hearing protection is a .22. Just be aware of the fact that if you ever have to use a self defense firearm in an enclosed area your hearing is going to suffer at least temporarily. I have a 12 gauge and a Mak 9, both will cause my hearing to suffer if used without hearing protection indoors and out. That's just the way it is unless you keep hearing protection close at hand at all times indoors.

Would a suppressor make much difference indoors?

 

[Ringel05]

Would a suppressor make much difference indoors?

It would mitigate it some but it may not suppress it as much as you might want. Then take in the cost of a suppressor and the required $200 tax stamp plus the minimum one year wait for the ATF to approve it not to mention the paperwork. They are that backlogged.
So yes it will help but to what degree I have no idea.

 

[task0778]

It would mitigate it some but it may not suppress it as much as you might want. Then take in the cost of a suppressor and the required $200 tax stamp plus the minimum one year wait for the ATF to approve it ot to mention the paperwork. They are that backlogged.
So yes it will help but to what degree I have no idea.

So, I shoulda bought a couple .22s and saved myself a lot of time and money. My hearing too.

 

[Ringel05]

So, I shoulda bought a couple .22s and saved myself a lot of time and money. My hearing too.

One other thing is in the dark the muzzle flash will create temporary havoc with your vision while you're shooting, 22s not near as bad. Of course if you decide to use a .22 then shot placement is everything which means practice, practice, practice of course that goes for any firearm one chooses to use for self defense.

So far the only .22LR I own is my S&W M&P 15-22, not that expensive it will set you back around $430 on average. Mine has 2 - 25 round magazines.

The one on the top is the .22LR the one on the bottom is my Kel-tec KS7 12 gauge.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

which according to the current rules makes my gun a rifle instead of a pistol, true?

Current rules, no; proposed rules, it would be considered an SBR and subject to regulation per the NFA.

Perhaps a clean swap with someone for a 16-inch complete upper, at no cost to you.

 

[Ringel05]

Current rules, no; proposed rules, it would be considered an SBR and subject to regulation per the NFA.

Perhaps a clean swap with someone for a 16-inch complete upper, at no cost to you.

If he bought the pistol with the brace/blade already attached then technically per the new rules it becomes an SBR with or without the brace/blade. If he added the brace/blade afterwards then all he has to do is remove it for it to remain a pistol unless ATF changes that also which they have not done......... Yet.......... Either way the ATF has announced an "amnesty" for everyone to register their pistol as a SBR waving the $200 tax stamp cost.

 

[task0778]

If he bought the pistol with the brace/blade already attached then technically per the new rules it becomes an SBR with or without the brace/blade. If he added the brace/blade afterwards then all he has to do is remove it for it to remain a pistol unless ATF changes that also which they have not done......... Yet.......... Either way the ATF has announced an "amnesty" for everyone to register their pistol as a SBR waving the $200 tax stamp cost.

I checked - my AR-15 pistol did not have a brace/blade already attached. And that plastic brace/blade is actually to help stabilize the gun by strapping the gun to a forearm using that device rather than a shoulder. It has slots both horizontal and vertical to strap the device securely to my forearm after attaching it to the pistol buffer tube where the recoil spring is inside the tube. It is not a shoulder brace that has a wide rubber back to absorb some of the recoil. IOW, my AR-15 is a pistol by the ATF's own definition: basically if the weapon is fired from the shoulder it is a rifle, otherwise it is a pistol and not an SBR.

 

[Batcat]

So, I shoulda bought a couple .22s and saved myself a lot of time and money. My hearing too.

I found this video interesting and informative. Be aware though that .22LR rim fire ammo will fail to fire.more often than center fire ammo.

For new handgun shooters I do recommend starting out with a .22 handgun. You can learn the basics of shooting with the exception of recoil with the .22 and the money you will save on ammo will allow you to purchase a more powerful handgun.

 

[Ringel05]

I checked - my AR-15 pistol did not have a brace/blade already attached. And that plastic brace/blade is actually to help stabilize the gun by strapping the gun to a forearm using that device rather than a shoulder. It has slots both horizontal and vertical to strap the device securely to my forearm after attaching it to the pistol buffer tube where the recoil spring is inside the tube. It is not a shoulder brace that has a wide rubber back to absorb some of the recoil. IOW, my AR-15 is a pistol by the ATF's own definition: basically if the weapon is fired from the shoulder it is a rifle, otherwise it is a pistol and not an SBR.

The ATF tried to make a rule a while back saying one could not shoulder a brace/blade but the courts struck that down so firing it from the shoulder DOES NOT make it an SBR. By the way the ones with the rubber pads are called butt stocks not braces or blades, three different things. What the ATF is after now are the braces and blades themselves by changing their own previous NFA definitions as Congress had deemed so as to consider them to be basically butt stocks therefore making AR pistols with braces/blades SBRs.

 

[task0778]

The ATF tried to make a rule a while back saying one could not shoulder a brace/blade but the courts struck that down so firing it from the shoulder DOES NOT make it an SBR. By the way the ones with the rubber pads are called butt stocks not braces or blades, three different things. What the ATF is after now are the braces and blades themselves by changing their own previous NFA definitions as Congress had deemed so as to consider them to be basically butt stocks therefore making AR pistols with braces/blades SBRs.

See, everytime I think I know what I'm talking about, you come along and piss in my cornflakes. If an SBR is not defined as a shoulder-fired rifled handgun with a barrel less than 16" that is fitted with a buttstock and made from a rifle, then WTH is it? I looked it up.

Short-barreled rifle ( SBR) is a legal designation in the United States, referring to a shoulder-fired, rifled firearm, made from a rifle, with a barrel length of less than 16 in (41 cm) or overall length of less than 26 in (66 cm), or a handgun fitted with a buttstock and a barrel of less than 16 inches length.

My AR-15 is not shoulder-fired, does not have a buttstock, and the guts of it is made from a pistol, not a rifle. So, am I good to go?


OK, now:

A pistol brace, also known as a stabilizing brace, is an accessory that attaches to the rear of the gun and allows the firearm to be fired one-handed.

OK, I got one of those, it came with the AR-15 but was not attached. They didn't give me the straps either, cheap bastards.


A buttstock fits against the shoulder, allowing for better management of the rifle’s recoil. But it is not secured to the shooter in any way.

I don't got one of these, not yet anyway. I thought that means my AR-15 is not an SBR. A 2014 letter by the ATF determined that adding a brace to an AR pistol would not move it into SBR territory. A braced AR pistol would still be considered a pistol. I guess the ATF is trying to change that? By some estimates there may be 20-40 million of these AR-15 pistols out there that according to that definition are not NFA items and do not require registration and the $200 stamp.


The AR-15 Pistol Blade Brace incorporates a flexible stabilizing fin which rests against the inside of the forearm when in the firing position. If desired, a standard sling may be wrapped around the Fin and forearm, further stabilizing the pistol to the forearm in both horizontal and vertical planes. Perfect for your AR style pistol.

Oh oh. My pistol brace has that blade. Fuck.


So, options:

1. Wait and see how all this plays out in the courts, cuz it sure as hell is going to be legally challenged. My guess is, a federal judge somewhere is going to put a hold on the whole deal, meaning no amnesty and no confiscation. If the case makes it to the SCOTUS, I can't see them allowing the ATF to change their definitions of what is an NFA item and what isn't. BUT - I dunno. But they can

2. I could buy a 16" upper and replace the shorter upper that came with the gun, right? I don't wanna give the ATF $200 for a stamp, I'd rather spend $300 or so on the 16" upper that makes the gun a rifle and no subject to their new rules. Unless they change the 16" standard to something longer. I'm kinda leaning that way, can anybody talk me out of it?

3. OR, I can just hope all this goes away if/when the courts rule against the ATF's new rules and sell the AR-15 with the original 10.5" barrel. I don't need the aggravation. Or the noise. Take my loss and move on, maybe to something a bit bigger than a .22, but light enough to handle. .25? .32? Even a .380, those things are pretty short and don't have a lot of powder in 'em. I'm talking home defense here, somebody barges into my small house and won't leave. I wanna be able to send a lot of smaller bullets their way cuz I stand a better chance of scoring a hit and nothing changes a bad guy's mind about leaving like getting shot. And I'll still be able to hear my wife yelling at me. Wait.

4. I ain't taking the amnesty deal and I ain't paying them a $200 stamp for a gun that was legal when I bought it. We'll see what happens, but if the ATF comes around, they ain't getting my AR-15. They'll have to find it first and I presume have a warrant, right? I got 3 brothers, and an ex-Army sister, they'll never know where it's at.

 

[Ringel05]

See, everytime I think I know what I'm talking about, you come along and piss in my cornflakes. If an SBR is not defined as a shoulder-fired rifled handgun with a barrel less than 16" that is fitted with a buttstock and made from a rifle, then WTH is it? I looked it up.

Short-barreled rifle ( SBR) is a legal designation in the United States, referring to a shoulder-fired, rifled firearm, made from a rifle, with a barrel length of less than 16 in (41 cm) or overall length of less than 26 in (66 cm), or a handgun fitted with a buttstock and a barrel of less than 16 inches length.

My AR-15 is not shoulder-fired, does not have a buttstock, and the guts of it is made from a pistol, not a rifle. So, am I good to go?


OK, now:

A pistol brace, also known as a stabilizing brace, is an accessory that attaches to the rear of the gun and allows the firearm to be fired one-handed.

OK, I got one of those, it came with the AR-15 but was not attached. They didn't give me the straps either, cheap bastards.


A buttstock fits against the shoulder, allowing for better management of the rifle’s recoil. But it is not secured to the shooter in any way.

I don't got one of these, not yet anyway. I thought that means my AR-15 is not an SBR. A 2014 letter by the ATF determined that adding a brace to an AR pistol would not move it into SBR territory. A braced AR pistol would still be considered a pistol. I guess the ATF is trying to change that? By some estimates there may be 20-40 million of these AR-15 pistols out there that according to that definition are not NFA items and do not require registration and the $200 stamp.


The AR-15 Pistol Blade Brace incorporates a flexible stabilizing fin which rests against the inside of the forearm when in the firing position. If desired, a standard sling may be wrapped around the Fin and forearm, further stabilizing the pistol to the forearm in both horizontal and vertical planes. Perfect for your AR style pistol.

Oh oh. My pistol brace has that blade. Fuck.


So, options:

1. Wait and see how all this plays out in the courts, cuz it sure as hell is going to be legally challenged. My guess is, a federal judge somewhere is going to put a hold on the whole deal, meaning no amnesty and no confiscation. If the case makes it to the SCOTUS, I can't see them allowing the ATF to change their definitions of what is an NFA item and what isn't. BUT - I dunno. But they can

2. I could buy a 16" upper and replace the shorter upper that came with the gun, right? I don't wanna give the ATF $200 for a stamp, I'd rather spend $300 or so on the 16" upper that makes the gun a rifle and no subject to their new rules. Unless they change the 16" standard to something longer. I'm kinda leaning that way, can anybody talk me out of it?

3. OR, I can just hope all this goes away if/when the courts rule against the ATF's new rules and sell the AR-15 with the original 10.5" barrel. I don't need the aggravation. Or the noise. Take my loss and move on, maybe to something a bit bigger than a .22, but light enough to handle. .25? .32? Even a .380, those things are pretty short and don't have a lot of powder in 'em. I'm talking home defense here, somebody barges into my small house and won't leave. I wanna be able to send a lot of smaller bullets their way cuz I stand a better chance of scoring a hit and nothing changes a bad guy's mind about leaving like getting shot. And I'll still be able to hear my wife yelling at me. Wait.

4. I ain't taking the amnesty deal and I ain't paying them a $200 stamp for a gun that was legal when I bought it. We'll see what happens, but if the ATF comes around, they ain't getting my AR-15. They'll have to find it first and I presume have a warrant, right? I got 3 brothers, and an ex-Army sister, they'll never know where it's at.

See, everytime I think I know what I'm talking about, you come along and piss in my cornflakes. If an SBR is not defined as a shoulder-fired rifled handgun with a barrel less than 16" that is fitted with a buttstock and made from a rifle, then WTH is it? I looked it up.

It appears you misread what I posted. A SBR is a pistol length AR with a buttstock on it and/or a vertical foregrip. Under the current rules a pistol length AR is not a SBR with a brace or blade fitted on it.
The latter is what the ATF wants to change so that any and all pistol length ARs with a buttstock, brace or blade are to be considered a SBR.
I hope I'm being clear.

 

[task0778]

It appears you misread what I posted. A SBR is a pistol length AR with a buttstock on it and/or a vertical foregrip. Under the current rules a pistol length AR is not a SBR with a brace or blade fitted on it.
The latter is what the ATF wants to change so that any and all pistol length ARs with a buttstock, brace or blade are to be considered a SBR.
I hope I'm being clear.

Thanks. I get confused so easily these days. One hopes the ATF isn't allowed to do this.

 

[Vastator]

They are making this set of rules so arbitrary, and nebulous that they’ll be able to nail virtually anyone they want. And that’s no accident…