CDZ Anyone else sick of worshiping the rich?

[Andylusion]

Yeah, of course. Given I have $600 in the bank. Make $23K a year. And drive a 03 Grand Marquis with no A/C and door handle that is broken, at over 140K miles on it. Clearly I'm living the high life. My walmart $5 shirt, and plastic dinner plates, are a perfect match to that silver spoon.

Moron. You people.....


Good grief. Don't flatter yourself. Emotionalism is for idiots. You ever meet a complete train wreck, it's an emotional person.

Not sure what good Anarchist organizations do. How about you build a well for clean drinking water Africa, which I have done. Try that, then get back to me.

Of course to do that you would have to have an organization...... which if it's anarchist........ Idiots. Can't even create a group that isn't contradictory in its own existence.

lol...... these people.... wow.....

Right, you seem eager to prove yourself. Learn humility, or forever be a slave to public opinion.

The fact that you are poor makes your obsession with making money even more understandable.

0.o

Wow.... are you crazy? When have I ever cared about public opinion? Half the stuff I say, causes people to hate me, and insult me. Yeah, back in high school maybe. But today? I couldn't care less what any of you think. If you like what I say great. If you hate it, great. Whatever floats your irrelevant boat.

I say what I think, no matter how anyone responds to it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

And how is that an 'obsession with money'? If I was obsessed with money, I'd be screaming about the rich, and how life isn't "equal" and "fair", and how I deserve more.

Instead....

You know actually I kind of wish I did care about money more. Then I'd have the motivation to do something about it. But as it stands... I just don't care. I have a car. It works. I have a place to sleep. Nothing nice, but it works. I have food. Namely chicken and rice (I can't cook, so I have a rice cooker, and that's pretty much what I've eaten for 10 years now. Yes, day in and day out).

Yeah, I could earn more money.... but.... why? A new car? for what? A bigger home, or nicer apartment? For what? So I can buy my shirts from Target instead of Walmart? So what.

About the only thing I really wish out of life, is that I had been more successful at a career. Any career honestly.

I tried to be a computer programmer, but failed out of college. Tried to fix cars as an auto-mechanic, but I broke every car I touched. Apparently they don't pay mechanics as much when the car leaves with more problems than it showed up with. Who would a thunk. Tried truck driving, fell asleep at the wheel doing 60. Figured that wasn't a good plan. Tried retail, found I really just hate dealing with customers.

So money... meh... But I wish I could have been successful at something. Now I'm 40, and kind of resigned to my fate as it were.

But I have never thought it was "the evil greedy corporations that owe me more money!" even though I don't earn it. Because that's a greedy envious position to have.

In fact, I've never thought that way. I want everyone to succeed. If you told me that tomorrow you landed a job paying $10 Million a year... I would think that is wonderful. Why should I wish for you to do worse, just because I'm not doing better? That is a baffling concept to me. I simply don't grasp "I wish you did poorly!"? Why? If someone does worse... how does that benefit you? If Warren Buffet makes $100 Million less this year, how does that change anything in your life? It doesn't. So why not have as many people do better, as possible? Even left-wingers that believe stupid ideology.

 

[GLASNOST]

... Emotionalism is for idiots. You ever meet a complete train wreck, it's an emotional person......

I have observed the church-going social climbers. They exceed the speed limit, hoping not to be late to church on Sunday, splashing dirty water over the clothes of every pedestrian along the way, those without an automobile of course. “Anyway”, the Capitalist church-goer is thinking, “it's their own fault for not owning a car …. and they're not dressed well enough to be going to church ….. so who cares!?” And now that the guy on the curb (with the wet trousers) is feeling dismayed by his fellow man, his emotions are further insulted by slandering them as being 'idiotic'.

 

[Onyx]

0.o

Wow.... are you crazy? When have I ever cared about public opinion? Half the stuff I say, causes people to hate me, and insult me. Yeah, back in high school maybe. But today? I couldn't care less what any of you think. If you like what I say great. If you hate it, great. Whatever floats your irrelevant boat.

I say what I think, no matter how anyone responds to it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

And how is that an 'obsession with money'? If I was obsessed with money, I'd be screaming about the rich, and how life isn't "equal" and "fair", and how I deserve more.

Instead....

You know actually I kind of wish I did care about money more. Then I'd have the motivation to do something about it. But as it stands... I just don't care. I have a car. It works. I have a place to sleep. Nothing nice, but it works. I have food. Namely chicken and rice (I can't cook, so I have a rice cooker, and that's pretty much what I've eaten for 10 years now. Yes, day in and day out).

Yeah, I could earn more money.... but.... why? A new car? for what? A bigger home, or nicer apartment? For what? So I can buy my shirts from Target instead of Walmart? So what.

If you really didn't care what other people think, you would not continuously write walls about yourself.

 

[Onyx]

I have observed the church-going social climbers. They exceed the speed limit, hoping not to be late to church on Sunday, splashing dirty water over the clothes of every pedestrian along the way, those without an automobile of course. “Anyway”, the Capitalist church-goer is thinking, “it's their own fault for not owning a car …. and they're not dressed well enough to be going to church ….. so who cares!?” And now that the guy on the curb (with the wet trousers) is feeling dismayed by his fellow man, his emotions are further insulted by slandering them as being 'idiotic'.

It is the classic 'Holier than thou' complex.

There is the social ladder and the economic ladder, but it is really all about having power.

 

[GLASNOST]

What has anyone in the "anarchist community" done that was worth anything?

Give your two best examples.

I'll give you a list of common activist activities in the anarchist community

- Educates society on DIY skills and self liberation philosophy

- Creating cooperatives and RRF markets for communities

- Forming factories ran by workers

- Establishing mutual credit banks

- Fights against racism and for LGBT rights

- Bringing awareness on animal abuse and enviornmental degradation

- Running campaigns against politicians and exposing government corruption

- Revitalizing neighborhoods with mutually contributed funds

- Forming independent self governing councils to resolve community issues peacefully and without institutionalized force

Ect. The list goes on and on. It is the most active direct action community that has ever existed.

Now you're talking, brother!

 

[GLASNOST]

It is the classic 'Holier than thou' complex.
There is the social ladder and the economic ladder, but it is really all about having power.

Or smiling and

of those who have it, to give the impression they are flocking with the same feather. Jeering at the underprivileged (they believe) is just another sign of their importance.

 

[Andylusion]

What has anyone in the "anarchist community" done that was worth anything?

Give your two best examples.

I'll give you a list of common activist activities in the anarchist community

- Educates society on DIY skills and self liberation philosophy

- Creating cooperatives and RRF markets for communities

- Forming factories ran by workers

- Establishing mutual credit banks

- Fights against racism and for LGBT rights

- Bringing awareness on animal abuse and enviornmental degradation

- Running campaigns against politicians and exposing government corruption

- Revitalizing neighborhoods with mutually contributed funds

- Forming independent self governing councils to resolve community issues peacefully and without institutionalized force

Ect. The list goes on and on. It is the most active direct action community that has ever existed.

Name a neighborhood that has been 'revitalized' without Capitalist companies, businesses, or investors?

Your an "anarchist" group, that forms "governing councils"? Contradict much? That's like "lets create a governing body to void needing governing bodies!".

Name a factory created without capitalists companies, investors or businesses, that Anarchists created.... and who is in charge of this 'anarchist' created factory?

Creating cooperatives and RRF markets for communities? Cooperatives are not all that great in my limited experience. I worked at one, and honestly it sucked. It was one of only two jobs that treated me so terribly that I walked off the job. Even a dog won't come back if you kick it enough. My experience is, the owner of the company made every long term employee part share owner in the company, which meant that if you stuck around long enough you got several shares, worth a few hundred dollars. Basically instead of flat severance package, you got some shares. Of course if you left before you were considered long term, you got nothing.

I'm not against co-ops. If that's what you want to do, knock yourself out. But it's not exactly any real benefit over any other job. If you stay long enough at Wendy's or Walmart, you get company stock too... and it's worth a ton more.

Educates society on DIY skills and self liberation philosophy?

Give me an example? I have yet to see anything of the sort, let alone anything of the sort that was actually useful.

As I expected, most of what you listed doesn't actually help people. The few things that might, I couldn't find a single example of here in Ohio.

I think I prefer groups that directly help people. Rather than push some ideology, or try and open some RRF market, whatever that means.

 

[Andylusion]

0.o

Wow.... are you crazy? When have I ever cared about public opinion? Half the stuff I say, causes people to hate me, and insult me. Yeah, back in high school maybe. But today? I couldn't care less what any of you think. If you like what I say great. If you hate it, great. Whatever floats your irrelevant boat.

I say what I think, no matter how anyone responds to it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

And how is that an 'obsession with money'? If I was obsessed with money, I'd be screaming about the rich, and how life isn't "equal" and "fair", and how I deserve more.

Instead....

You know actually I kind of wish I did care about money more. Then I'd have the motivation to do something about it. But as it stands... I just don't care. I have a car. It works. I have a place to sleep. Nothing nice, but it works. I have food. Namely chicken and rice (I can't cook, so I have a rice cooker, and that's pretty much what I've eaten for 10 years now. Yes, day in and day out).

Yeah, I could earn more money.... but.... why? A new car? for what? A bigger home, or nicer apartment? For what? So I can buy my shirts from Target instead of Walmart? So what.

If you really didn't care what other people think, you would not continuously write walls about yourself.

Why do you think most of us are on forums? I like talking about stuff in the world. Obviously, as with most people, my primary point of view.... is my own life.

You made a comment about me. So I responded with the truth about me. Which of us, brought up my personal life? You did. Not me.

But obviously that fact is lost on you. I responded to what was said. That's kind of the point of a forum.... but ok whatever you want to believe, that makes you happy.

You people.... so funny...

 

[Andylusion]

I have observed the church-going social climbers. They exceed the speed limit, hoping not to be late to church on Sunday, splashing dirty water over the clothes of every pedestrian along the way, those without an automobile of course. “Anyway”, the Capitalist church-goer is thinking, “it's their own fault for not owning a car …. and they're not dressed well enough to be going to church ….. so who cares!?” And now that the guy on the curb (with the wet trousers) is feeling dismayed by his fellow man, his emotions are further insulted by slandering them as being 'idiotic'.

It is the classic 'Holier than thou' complex.

There is the social ladder and the economic ladder, but it is really all about having power.

Funny, because you just gave me about 6 pages of "holier than thou" complex in that other thread.

I guess it takes one to know one, eh?

 

[GLASNOST]

Name a neighborhood that has been 'revitalized' without Capitalist companies, businesses, or investors?

Onyx has just provided you with a LONG LIST. Did you miss it?

 

[GLASNOST]

Why do you think most of us are on forums? I like talking about stuff in the world. Obviously, as with most people, my primary point of view.... is my own life.

You made a comment about me. So I responded with the truth about me. Which of us, brought up my personal life? You did. Not me.

But obviously that fact is lost on you. I responded to what was said. That's kind of the point of a forum.... but ok whatever you want to believe, that makes you happy.

You people.... so funny...

I must remind you of the CDZ rules. You seem to be on the verge of disregarding them.

 

[Onyx]

Name a neighborhood that has been 'revitalized' without Capitalist companies, businesses, or investors?

Actually many anarchists own free market entities.

As to your question, the Woodbrige neighborhood in Detroit. The Trumbullplex has even been the host of many organized anarchist programs throughout all the neighborhoods of Detroit.

Your an "anarchist" group, that forms "governing councils"? Contradict much? That's like "lets create a governing body to void needing governing bodies!".

That just shows you do not understand what anarchism is really about.

An anarchy is a society without rulers, its etymological origin deriving from the Greek word archon, which means ruler. Councils have been essential in anarchist philosophy for over 200 years.

Platformism is fundamental as long as it is egailitarian and does not feature a power hiearchy. That is how anarchists have been able to organize great armies in the past.

Horizontal organization is the best organization.

Name a factory created without capitalists companies, investors or businesses, that Anarchists created....

Hell, there have been a lot of them. In fact, between 1910-1940 there were anarchist trade unions and worker syndicates all over Europe. Many of them are still around today.

and who is in charge of this 'anarchist' created factory?

Generally worker unions.

There have also been some ancap business owners.

Creating cooperatives and RRF markets for communities? Cooperatives are not all that great in my limited experience. I worked at one, and honestly it sucked.

Some suck and others do not.

Their strength comes from the participation and dedication of the community. That goes for just about anything.

Educates society on DIY skills and self liberation philosophy?

Give me an example? I have yet to see anything of the sort, let alone anything of the sort that was actually useful.

The key ideas perpetuated in philosophical anarchism are self sufficiency and equality among man.

An example? The Anarchist Black Cross distributes informational material across the country, primarily in prisons. There are also plenty of anarchist infostores that get publications out into neighborhoods.

As I expected, most of what you listed doesn't actually help people. The few things that might, I couldn't find a single example of here in Ohio.

Charity isn't a long term solution. Anarchists help others by giving them the tools and means to help themselves and be self sufficient.

Many anarchists actually are members of organizations (some even anarchist) that do engage in charity. Anarchists believe the root of most problems in society come from the state, so it makes sense we attack the root of the problem in regards to helping others.

Rather than push some ideology, or try and open some RRF market, whatever that means.

Really Really Free Market (RRFM). It is a horizontally organized market that provides free services, crafts, and practical goods centered around the concept of a gift economy.

 

[Onyx]

Why do you think most of us are on forums? I like talking about stuff in the world. Obviously, as with most people, my primary point of view.... is my own life.

You made a comment about me. So I responded with the truth about me. Which of us, brought up my personal life? You did. Not me.

But obviously that fact is lost on you. I responded to what was said. That's kind of the point of a forum.... but ok whatever you want to believe, that makes you happy.

You people.... so funny...

Look, let's just stop this.

I would like to discuss more important subjects than you.

 

[grbb]

I do not worship the rich. I do have great respect to those who build their wealth productively.

Donald Trump is not Bill Gates. However, he is doing great on his own.

I would respect him far more than I would respect most politicians.

 

[Onyx]

I do not worship the rich. I do have great respect to those who build their wealth productively.

Donald Trump is not Bill Gates. However, he is doing great on his own.

I would respect him far more than I would respect most politicians.

Not sure why you would respect a notorious crook, but that just proves my point.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Politics needs to change, it needs to be more mobile, needs to allow for many different views. Right now it doesn't allow for much in the shape of views, what are Trump's views? "she has nice tits" and "I'll grab her pussy", since when has that been politics?

Proportional Representation is the way forwards, it's democracy, people need to get out and demand it.

Those that believe they can fix the system are delusional.

They will never come to terms with the simple reality that if a political system exists, it exists to be exploited. There has yet to be one state in human history that has not worked primarily for the ruling class or other assorted elites.

If you have direct democracy, IE, Majoritarianism, you are only going to increase the role of the corporate media and government schooling in influencing policy. That is if the ruling class would ever allow that kind of political system to exist in the first place.

But haven't other systems been fixed?
Sure, the US is a difficult one, I'm not saying it wouldn't be easy, but then again if you find someone with the charisma and the will to take it on, then things can change. I mean, 1700s, England was a world superpower and the colonies took them on with people saying you'd have to be delusional to think they could win......

Direct democracy can work well.

You talk about govt schooling influencing policy, not a bad thing necessarily. You look at Germany where you have the East with far more racism than the West because the West dealt with its racism.

You have a society, and everyone has to live together. Putting policies in place which make people think differently and more able to live together isn't such a bad thing. The right play this game that any thought that hasn't been passed down from your parents is somehow a bad thought.

 

[Onyx]

But haven't other systems been fixed?

Nope, every statist political system is broken. Some are skilled at concealing the damages, and others are proficient at offloading their problems on to minorities and the third world.

Direct democracy can work well.

Not for the ruling class. Keep dreaming.

The closest to direct democracy in the world is the unrecognized war tattered state of Rojava, and they are already puppets of foreign powers.

ou talk about govt schooling influencing policy, not a bad thing necessarily. You look at Germany where you have the East with far more racism than the West because the West dealt with its racism.

Always referencing Germany, and for the life of me I cannot understand it.

You are delusional for not seeing how many ways Germanies political, economic, and societal environment is fucked up.

You have a society, and everyone has to live together. Putting policies in place which make people think differently and more able to live together isn't such a bad thing.

Nothing in the established law helps people live better together. In fact, statism in general is the #1 reason (and often the only reason) people are divided and killing each other in this world.

Read the sig; Study the facts.

 

[Andylusion]

Name a neighborhood that has been 'revitalized' without Capitalist companies, businesses, or investors?

Actually many anarchists own free market entities.

As to your question, the Woodbrige neighborhood in Detroit. The Trumbullplex has even been the host of many organized anarchist programs throughout all the neighborhoods of Detroit.

Your an "anarchist" group, that forms "governing councils"? Contradict much? That's like "lets create a governing body to void needing governing bodies!".

That just shows you do not understand what anarchism is really about.

An anarchy is a society without rulers, its etymological origin deriving from the Greek word archon, which means ruler. Councils have been essential in anarchist philosophy for over 200 years.

Platformism is fundamental as long as it is egailitarian and does not feature a power hiearchy. That is how anarchists have been able to organize great armies in the past.

Horizontal organization is the best organization.

Name a factory created without capitalists companies, investors or businesses, that Anarchists created....

Hell, there have been a lot of them. In fact, between 1910-1940 there were anarchist trade unions and worker syndicates all over Europe. Many of them are still around today.

and who is in charge of this 'anarchist' created factory?

Generally worker unions.

There have also been some ancap business owners.

Creating cooperatives and RRF markets for communities? Cooperatives are not all that great in my limited experience. I worked at one, and honestly it sucked.

Some suck and others do not.

Their strength comes from the participation and dedication of the community. That goes for just about anything.

Educates society on DIY skills and self liberation philosophy?

Give me an example? I have yet to see anything of the sort, let alone anything of the sort that was actually useful.

The key ideas perpetuated in philosophical anarchism are self sufficiency and equality among man.

An example? The Anarchist Black Cross distributes informational material across the country, primarily in prisons. There are also plenty of anarchist infostores that get publications out into neighborhoods.

As I expected, most of what you listed doesn't actually help people. The few things that might, I couldn't find a single example of here in Ohio.

Charity isn't a long term solution. Anarchists help others by giving them the tools and means to help themselves and be self sufficient.

Many anarchists actually are members of organizations (some even anarchist) that do engage in charity. Anarchists believe the root of most problems in society come from the state, so it makes sense we attack the root of the problem in regards to helping others.

Rather than push some ideology, or try and open some RRF market, whatever that means.

Really Really Free Market (RRFM). It is a horizontally organized market that provides free services, crafts, and practical goods centered around the concept of a gift economy.

Trumbullplex? That's it? I've seen the Trumbullplex. It's a trash dump. If you wish to live in a trash dump, then by all means. But claiming that the Trumbullplex is helpful to the broader society, the vast majority of which has no interest in living in a trash dump, is ridiculous.

They could have built a house for battered women, or abused children. Instead they created a hippy trash dump, and this is the type of organization you want your legacy attached to?

.... Strike one.

Thanks. I am well aware of the entomology of the word. That doesn't change my point. Name one anarchy based 'counsel' that didn't end up with rulers?

Just for giggles I punched up the local Anarchy groups, and was a bit shocked honestly....
National-Anarchist Movement
Front page..... "IN MEMORY OF MUAMMAR AL-QADHAFI"

Complete with picture. If this doesn't prove what I've been saying about these anarchy groups, I don't know what else would.

.... Strike Two.

Yeah, I know there have been a lot of anarchist factories. None of them survive long. How many are in the top 100 companies? Or top 500, or 1,000, or 100,000?

Trade Unions? You mean like the ones that bankrupted GM and Chrysler? And how are these Anarchist trade unions the slightest bit different than any other trade Unions?

Anarchist Black Cross distributes propaganda, primarily in prisons. Well I'm sure you can count the number of people who are helped off drug use from this.

Charity isn't a long term solution. Anarchists help others by giving them the tools and means to help themselves and be self sufficient.

It depends on how you define "charity" doesn't it.

I give to charity routinely, but only to organizations which can show me a clear track record of improving people's lives.

Now what that means is that some people need help with interpersonal skills, others need help with addiction, and others need help with job skills.

I never give to any organization that just goes around dropping off food, clothing or money. Never.

I give to organizations that help people out of addition, and I want to see the success rate, and that's how many people 5 years after the program have a life, a job, and are not addicted anymore.

I give to organizations that help people with interpersonal problems. That means wives out of abusive homes (physical abuse, not 'he didn't pick up his underwear'). Children into non-abusive families. And people in general out of anger issues, gangs, and other asorted problems.

Again, I want to see that at least 3 years later the women isn't back with abuser, the child isn't running away or back in crazy land, and Mr. Angry isn't back in the gang, or losing jobs because he yelled at a customer.

And lastly, as for job skills, I want to see real training, or subsidized education, or job placement, or working for the organization. The charities I support must show people who came in, got trained, got placed, and held their job. If they don't, then I don't fund them.

Being 'self sufficient' is not nearly as great as one seems to think. Nearly everyone that succeeds is not self-sufficient. And I have yet to see many, if any, examples of people being self-sufficient, that was anything more than a curiosity, or oddity of amusement.

There are a few select people in this world, that find joy and happiness at being isolated and completely independent. And even those people, are still not entirely independent. Without government funded, society created police force, someone would come and steal their trash can converted into a tomato garden. Not to mention the endless waves of disease and illness that would wipe out the 'self-sufficient' people if society created, health care systems didn't prevent such plagues.

So while the concept seems brilliant, I don't see any real evidence that it significantly helps people.

 

[Onyx]

Trumbullplex? That's it? I've seen the Trumbullplex. It's a trash dump. If you wish to live in a trash dump, then by all means. But claiming that the Trumbullplex is helpful to the broader society, the vast majority of which has no interest in living in a trash dump, is ridiculous.

One mans trash is another mans treasure.

The Trumbullplex is important to a lot of people, and Woodbridge is lucky to have it.

They could have built a house for battered women, or abused children. Instead they created a hippy trash dump, and this is the type of organization you want your legacy attached to?

.... Strike one.

Not really.

You just used hyperbole to deflame a group of people that regularly engage in activism and charity work. Calling their living space a trash dump does not negate the influence they have had on the community. They are happy, so why can't you be happy for them?

My intuition is telling me that you just made up having went to the Trumbullplex.

Thanks. I am well aware of the entomology of the word. That doesn't change my point. Name one anarchy based 'counsel' that didn't end up with rulers?

I highly doubt you knew that, but whatever you say.

All of them, or else they would not be an anarchist council. The state is the combination of government and force. Any form of organized voluntary governance that does not use force has no rulers.

Just for giggles I punched up the local Anarchy groups, and was a bit shocked honestly....
National-Anarchist Movement
Front page..... "IN MEMORY OF MUAMMAR AL-QADHAFI"
Complete with picture. If this doesn't prove what I've been saying about these anarchy groups, I don't know what else would.

.... Strike Two.

The National Anarchist Movement is a right wing group that believes in racially segregated communities. They are very controversial in the anarchist community.

Strike two? Deflaming a group of posers was strike two? Really?

Yeah, I know there have been a lot of anarchist factories. None of them survive long.

Uh, actually many of them have survived quite some time. Like I said, many are still going strong from before WW2. If syndicalism was more popular, we could demonstrate a better proof of concept.

Where are you getting your information?

How many are in the top 100 companies? Or top 500, or 1,000, or 100,000?

The mass consolidation of wealth is only important for the greedy and pitiful. If that was their concern, they would not be anarchists.

A good days hard work for a sustainable livelihood. Is that not enough?

Trade Unions? You mean like the ones that bankrupted GM and Chrysler?

No, not really at all.

And how are these Anarchist trade unions the slightest bit different than any other trade Unions?

They are anarchist.

Anarchist Black Cross distributes propaganda, primarily in prisons. Well I'm sure you can count the number of people who are helped off drug use from this.

I know plenty have been turned on to the movement, and there is nothing greater than reaching a mentality of self liberation.

It depends on how you define "charity" doesn't it.

I define it as free assistance without the expectation for mutual return.

I give to charity routinely, but only to organizations which can show me a clear track record of improving people's lives

Now what that means is that some people need help with interpersonal skills, others need help with addiction, and others need help with job skills.

That's good for you.

I am not going to attack those trying to help others. For some reason you are on a warpath to discredit anarchists for being awesome and generous people

I never give to any organization that just goes around dropping off food, clothing or money. Never.

I give to organizations that help people out of addition, and I want to see the success rate, and that's how many people 5 years after the program have a life, a job, and are not addicted anymore.

I give to organizations that help people with interpersonal problems. That means wives out of abusive homes (physical abuse, not 'he didn't pick up his underwear'). Children into non-abusive families. And people in general out of anger issues, gangs, and other asorted problems.

Again, I want to see that at least 3 years later the women isn't back with abuser, the child isn't running away or back in crazy land, and Mr. Angry isn't back in the gang, or losing jobs because he yelled at a customer.

And lastly, as for job skills, I want to see real training, or subsidized education, or job placement, or working for the organization. The charities I support must show people who came in, got trained, got placed, and held their job. If they don't, then I don't fund them.

Mate, you need to stop writing walls talking yourself up.

That kind of narcissistic self serving behavior really annoys me.

Being 'self sufficient' is not nearly as great as one seems to think.

Really?

Tell me how great it is to be dependent.

Nearly everyone that succeeds is not self-sufficient.

Like I pointed out earlier, your definition of success is making money.

Most anarchists tend to be poor, and we take pride in our poverty. I would hate to be consumed by money like you are.

There are a few select people in this world, that find joy and happiness at being isolated and completely independent. And even those people, are still not entirely independent.

Well I take no joy in isolation, but I find there is no greater condition than having independence.

Maybe freedom isn't something you appreciate, so whatever I guess. I cannot force you to be human.

Without government funded, society created police force, someone would come and steal their trash can converted into a tomato garden.

Not really.

Anarchy is not allowing or condoning theft. It is acknowledging that there are better ways to deal with petty thieves than jails and politicians. Anyways, the real crooks are in government.

Not to mention the endless waves of disease and illness that would wipe out the 'self-sufficient' people if society created, health care systems didn't prevent such plagues.

No healthcare? The state produces nothing, least of all healthcare.

I believe you are conflating self sufficiency with an unwillingness to cooperate. Being self sufficient does not mean you cannot accept outside help. It is a lifestyle in which you do not demand or rely on it.

So while the concept seems brilliant, I don't see any real evidence that it significantly helps people.

Or you are just unwilling. Of course self sufficiency and community ethics help people.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But haven't other systems been fixed?

Nope, every statist political system is broken. Some are skilled at concealing the damages, and others are proficient at offloading their problems on to minorities and the third world.

Direct democracy can work well.

Not for the ruling class. Keep dreaming.

The closest to direct democracy in the world is the unrecognized war tattered state of Rojava, and they are already puppets of foreign powers.

ou talk about govt schooling influencing policy, not a bad thing necessarily. You look at Germany where you have the East with far more racism than the West because the West dealt with its racism.

Always referencing Germany, and for the life of me I cannot understand it.

You are delusional for not seeing how many ways Germanies political, economic, and societal environment is fucked up.

You have a society, and everyone has to live together. Putting policies in place which make people think differently and more able to live together isn't such a bad thing.

Nothing in the established law helps people live better together. In fact, statism in general is the #1 reason (and often the only reason) people are divided and killing each other in this world.

Read the sig; Study the facts.

I guess it depends what you call fixed or not. I also guess it depends what you think govt is for.

Some countries are far more likely to look after their own people and do the right thing than others.

I have the feeling you don't really know about other places and what happens in their systems, and yet you'll come on here and be confident that their system doesn't work.

Direct democracy is when people have one vote in order to elect their people, and their vote actually counts.

In 2000 in the US more people voted for Gore, and they still got Bush. But in many countries with proportional representation they vote for a party and their vote actually counts. That's direct democracy. What you seem to be talking about is anarchy or something. I don't know, you didn't really explain yourself. Also you're missing lots of other places in a similar situation but as they don't get on the news every day, well...

You can't understand why I reference Germany. So?

I doubt you know much about Germany in order to be able to tell me that it's fucked up. I'm willing to bet all you know about Germany is the immigration issue that's happening right now. And you're going to base everything off of that.