Another question for Government Run Healthcare Supporters...

[SpidermanTuba]

The government. And whoever says different is overdosing on the kool-aid.

I know, I just wanted to see who exactly he thought was going to run it?

I suspect spiderman tuba is a troll and you probably won't get an answer. But I could be mistaken.

??? I already answered it. If you pick the Blue Cross option - Blue Cross runs your plan. If you pick the Humana option, then they run your plan. Isn't that a little obvious?

 

[Newby]

I know, I just wanted to see who exactly he thought was going to run it?

I suspect spiderman tuba is a troll and you probably won't get an answer. But I could be mistaken.

??? I already answered it. If you pick the Blue Cross option - Blue Cross runs your plan. If you pick the Humana option, then they run your plan. Isn't that a little obvious?

So, why don't you explain what is changing then? What's in this 1,000+ page bill? How are the insurance premiums being paid?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I know, I just wanted to see who exactly he thought was going to run it?

To all:

here's a list of what insurance options are presently available to government employees - by state:


Insurance Programs


If the option of this plan is given to all, no doubt more insurance companies will want to be on the government's list of options and there will be even more to choose from.


Federal government employees presently have far more flexibility in choosing health care coverage than employees of most other companies.

What happens when there are no more insurers b/c the federal plan has undercut them all?

undercut who all? Is the insurance companies that are part of the federal plan that will be making money off of the federal plan.

From what I understand you are able to keep your current insurance until you change jobs, then you have no choice but to go to the government provided plan.

You understand incorrectly then. Anyone can buy private insurance under this plan, and any employer may offer health insurance to its employees. The only difference is that the choice of a government health care option, as outlined here FEHB 2009 Plan Information for Texas for government employees, will be made available.

What happens whenever employers no longer offer insurance whenever they know that everyone would be covered under the government plan?

What happens when they no longer offer insurance because premiums double again over 10 years and they can't afford it?

Are they going to compensate you whenever they cut your health insurance since it was supposedly part of your salary?

I believe there are parts of this bill which would require employers who cut off their employees health benefits within a certain amount of time of the bill's passage will have to make that up with an equal amount of cash compensation for the first year or two after the program starts.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I suspect spiderman tuba is a troll and you probably won't get an answer. But I could be mistaken.

??? I already answered it. If you pick the Blue Cross option - Blue Cross runs your plan. If you pick the Humana option, then they run your plan. Isn't that a little obvious?

So, why don't you explain what is changing then? What's in this 1,000+ page bill? How are the insurance premiums being paid?

They are being paid mostly by the people who buy into the program. Those who can't afford it will get subsidies.

Really, the major change is that the insurance companies will be dealing with the bargaining power of millions and millions of people as part of one group. This is why employer based health care is usually a better deal, economically (including both employee and employer contributions), than private insurance - the bargaining power of all those people.

The disadvantage of employer based coverage is that if you lose your job you lose your health care. With government based coverage, you'd have all the advantages of employer based coverage (bargaining power of a massive group), but you'd get to keep your coverage if you changed jobs.


Many of the anti-obamacare seem to be under the impression that if this bill doesn't pass they'll just go on with their employer based coverage and be fine. not so. more and more employers are failing to offer health insurance because premiums are on the rise. They've doubled int he last decade and will likely do so again in the next. To assume your particular employer will continue to offer you health care over the next decade - at a price you can afford - is folly.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I know, I just wanted to see who exactly he thought was going to run it?

I suspect spiderman tuba is a troll and you probably won't get an answer. But I could be mistaken.

??? I already answered it. If you pick the Blue Cross option - Blue Cross runs your plan. If you pick the Humana option, then they run your plan. Isn't that a little obvious?

Here's the rub... I do not want nor need health insurance.

 

[Newby]

undercut who all? Is the insurance companies that are part of the federal plan that will be making money off of the federal plan.

Who's paying them?

You understand incorrectly then. Anyone can buy private insurance under this plan, and any employer may offer health insurance to its employees. The only difference is that the choice of a government health care option, as outlined here FEHB 2009 Plan Information for Texas for government employees, will be made available.

I don't know what your link is, but it has nothing to do with the current bill.

You can keep your current health insurance--just as it is, BUT once you have to make any changes--you will be put on the government plan. The insurance companies loose their ability to write or re-write any plans after the law becomes effective. Get married--sorry you are now on government healthplan--have a baby--sorry government insurance for you too. Can you deny this?

What happens whenever employers no longer offer insurance whenever they know that everyone would be covered under the government plan?

What happens when they no longer offer insurance because premiums double again over 10 years and they can't afford it?

You completely dodged my question. So, you're admitting that employers are going to drop their plans and you're going to be stuck with one option?

Are they going to compensate you whenever they cut your health insurance since it was supposedly part of your salary?

I believe there are parts of this bill which would require employers who cut off their employees health benefits within a certain amount of time of the bill's passage will have to make that up with an equal amount of cash compensation for the first year or two after the program starts.

A certain amount of time? What would that be? Two weeks? I'd like some concrete facts on it.

And again, how is this getting paid for?

 

[Bfgrn]

Recap... after 1 day... we have 2 answers... serve it with onions, and cut it in half...

I think lonestar was right... There is no support for government run health care on this board... I know there are liberals on this board so I guess it's safe to say that Obama is not listening to the voters and is forcing something that nobody wants... Interesting.

You ask an idiotic question, then, make it a litmus test for YOUR MISNOMER...

NO ONE is offering government run health care...

ALL you've proven is you're an idiot...

 

[KMAN]

The good news is that we are atleast going to have time to look at this thing unlike the $787 billion stimulus package...

However I'm not sure how many will read it... especially John Conyers (Democrat from Michigan) ..LOL

CNSNews.com - Conyers Sees No Point in Members Reading 1,000-Page Health Care Bill--Unless They Have 2 Lawyers to Interpret It for Them

 

[Care4all]

The government. And whoever says different is overdosing on the kool-aid.

I know, I just wanted to see who exactly he thought was going to run it?

I suspect spiderman tuba is a troll and you probably won't get an answer. But I could be mistaken.

ummmm, you've been here a couple of months and he has been a member for 5 years and you question trolling?

Any comments on the gvt employee health care choices that he has linked?

See, I don't see this as a government plan AT ALL...it's a "middle man plan", it's an Insurance Company's Dream Plan!!!

I disagree with it because the middle man is still involved and dictating my health care, with no decisions on my part, and even then, doesn't pay it....final bill $2053.00 that we have to pay, and our health insurance policy is $800 a month for the 2 of us, of which we pay $350 and his company pays the rest as a benefit.....insurance didn't pay a dime with a year or two worth of fighting and recoding and refiling and appeals... (because of a "code error" when the hospital filed my claim with them....long story! )

My husband and I have one choice of health care, with one insurance company and my husband works for a huge corporation who used to at least offer a choice of 2 insurance companies to choose from, which was also crap. I am grateful that his Company pays $450 of the bill each month, BUT STILL...what kind of choice do I have?

And how will those choices improve under Obama's plan? I have many questions on such...

I personally would rather see the for profit, health insurance companies go by the wayside, but of course, this is from my own and matt's personal experience...i do understand others may have a greater choice than us right now...but i would venture to say that many people don't.

And as far as the illegal alien thingy,

they are NOT eligible. It says so right in the house plan, I saw this on Cnn the other day...they showed the republicans saying such and then they showed the wording in the Democratic health Care plan that showed that Illegals are not eligible.

but just because they are not eligible, does not mean that this person would not get a liver at some point, if he could get on a donor list somehow....we pay for anyone who does not have insurance's emergency and life threatening healthcare as it is...it is against the Law for hospitals to not care for them, or anyone, in a critical and emergency situation.

Those of us insured, pay for these costs that the hospitals incur through higher insurance premiums, or if taxes reimburse the hospitals for some of it, through our taxes.

No illegal is being denied NOW....we are paying for it NOW....and it looks like we will continue to pay for it with higher insurance premiums if they are NOT allowed to BUY IN TO a plan they can afford....as the Dems say the bill says.

So, personally, if they are going to do some plan where people who do not work for companies that supply health insurance, they could buy in to a plan that they could afford...the gvt plan or better yet, a private NON PROFIT COOP plan...then THEY WOULD be contributing some...more than they are now, for the cost of their own health care...and this seems like a good thing, no? Then we would not have to pay as high premiums to cover the cost of their care as much, no?

I just don't know...

I think PROFIT has to be taken out of this....people can still be paid well, even if it is a nonprofit...the big wigs will still get their multi million dollar salaries in a nonprofit...just what profit they do make come year end, they have to reinvest it in to the company instead of giving the profits to a share holder...

I dunno I dunno I dunno....

on ALL OF THIS!

Care

 

[GHook93]

In all such ties, the liver will be served with onions.

I'm sure that it is in the healthcare bill that has just passed along with three or four recipes.

Although this is a great answer I would have to say the best solution would be to cut the liver in half and give each a bit of the organ... The biggest half going to the illegal alien so we could prove that all are welcome here in America, legal or otherwise, but only if you promise to vote Democratic.

liver splitting is done routinely.

LK,

You don't live in America correct? Do you live in a country with government run healthcare?

If I have this correct please enlighten us to your experience within this system? What the majority of people think! How long you wait!

Most here never experienced anything but the US system!

 

[L.K.Eder]

Although this is a great answer I would have to say the best solution would be to cut the liver in half and give each a bit of the organ... The biggest half going to the illegal alien so we could prove that all are welcome here in America, legal or otherwise, but only if you promise to vote Democratic.

liver splitting is done routinely.

LK,

You don't live in America correct? Do you live in a country with government run healthcare?

If I have this correct please enlighten us to your experience within this system? What the majority of people think! How long you wait!

Most here never experienced anything but the US system!

i live in germany, but i am no expert on health care, so i can not give you valuable information. as i am lucky to be without major or minor health problems i have not yet run into any problems yet.

in germany there are two options, private health care and what you would call government run healthcare, i think, which is mandatory if you don't use the private option.

it is a two class system. mostly rich people have the option for private health care, they are the ones who will not have to wait long for an appointment with a doctor. because the docs will get more money from privately insured patients. this is a major source for the problems, as health care is more and more run like a business which has to be profitable and not as a service which cares for the health of the people.

there are a lot of problems with our health care system, but it is not as bad as opponents of a government run health care system in the US paint it to be by cherry picking bad examples. we don't have as extreme examples of bad health care as the US system has to offer.

keep in mind, those are just my observations without having had the bad luck to have encountered the devil in detail.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I suspect spiderman tuba is a troll and you probably won't get an answer. But I could be mistaken.

??? I already answered it. If you pick the Blue Cross option - Blue Cross runs your plan. If you pick the Humana option, then they run your plan. Isn't that a little obvious?

Here's the rub... I do not want nor need health insurance.

Everybody needs health insurance.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

undercut who all? Is the insurance companies that are part of the federal plan that will be making money off of the federal plan.

Who's paying them?

The insured.

You understand incorrectly then. Anyone can buy private insurance under this plan, and any employer may offer health insurance to its employees. The only difference is that the choice of a government health care option, as outlined here FEHB 2009 Plan Information for Texas for government employees, will be made available.

I don't know what your link is, but it has nothing to do with the current bill.

yes it does. the bill would extend the same plan the federal government offers to its employees to any american that wants it. the link I provided is to the federal health care plan.

You completely dodged my question. So, you're admitting that employers are going to drop their plans and you're going to be stuck with one option?

If nothing is changed, then, yes. You will have one option. Private insurance. If you think employer provided health care is something that's sustainable you're very wrong. Its going to go whether a bill passes or not. If the government option is available, you'll have two options when your employer yanks your health insurance, private insurance, or the government plan.

A certain amount of time? What would that be? Two weeks? I'd like some concrete facts on it.

Here's a concrete fact - when employers spend less on benefits they have more $$$ to pay in salary.

 

[Newby]

undercut who all? Is the insurance companies that are part of the federal plan that will be making money off of the federal plan.

Who's paying them?

The insured.



yes it does. the bill would extend the same plan the federal government offers to its employees to any american that wants it. the link I provided is to the federal health care plan.

You completely dodged my question. So, you're admitting that employers are going to drop their plans and you're going to be stuck with one option?

If nothing is changed, then, yes. You will have one option. Private insurance. If you think employer provided health care is something that's sustainable you're very wrong. Its going to go whether a bill passes or not. If the government option is available, you'll have two options when your employer yanks your health insurance, private insurance, or the government plan.

A certain amount of time? What would that be? Two weeks? I'd like some concrete facts on it.

Here's a concrete fact - when employers spend less on benefits they have more $$$ to pay in salary.

Don't you mean the taxpayers will be paying for it? If there are people now who cannot afford to pay for health insurance then they're not going to be paying under the government run plan either, yet they are still considered 'the insured'.

So you're implying that the current federal plan is what is in that bill? I don't think so.

I see you ignored the following, which was the point of my post to begin with.

You can keep your current health insurance--just as it is, BUT once you have to make any changes--you will be put on the government plan. The insurance companies loose their ability to write or re-write any plans after the law becomes effective. Get married--sorry you are now on government healthplan--have a baby--sorry government insurance for you too. Can you deny this?

 

[KMAN]

liver splitting is done routinely.

LK,

You don't live in America correct? Do you live in a country with government run healthcare?

If I have this correct please enlighten us to your experience within this system? What the majority of people think! How long you wait!

Most here never experienced anything but the US system!

i live in germany, but i am no expert on health care, so i can not give you valuable information. as i am lucky to be without major or minor health problems i have not yet run into any problems yet.

in germany there are two options, private health care and what you would call government run healthcare, i think, which is mandatory if you don't use the private option.

it is a two class system. mostly rich people have the option for private health care, they are the ones who will not have to wait long for an appointment with a doctor. because the docs will get more money from privately insured patients. this is a major source for the problems, as health care is more and more run like a business which has to be profitable and not as a service which cares for the health of the people.

there are a lot of problems with our health care system, but it is not as bad as opponents of a government run health care system in the US paint it to be by cherry picking bad examples. we don't have as extreme examples of bad health care as the US system has to offer.

keep in mind, those are just my observations without having had the bad luck to have encountered the devil in detail.

Who pays for the people who can't afford the insurance?

 

[L.K.Eder]

LK,

You don't live in America correct? Do you live in a country with government run healthcare?

If I have this correct please enlighten us to your experience within this system? What the majority of people think! How long you wait!

Most here never experienced anything but the US system!

i live in germany, but i am no expert on health care, so i can not give you valuable information. as i am lucky to be without major or minor health problems i have not yet run into any problems yet.

in germany there are two options, private health care and what you would call government run healthcare, i think, which is mandatory if you don't use the private option.

it is a two class system. mostly rich people have the option for private health care, they are the ones who will not have to wait long for an appointment with a doctor. because the docs will get more money from privately insured patients. this is a major source for the problems, as health care is more and more run like a business which has to be profitable and not as a service which cares for the health of the people.

there are a lot of problems with our health care system, but it is not as bad as opponents of a government run health care system in the US paint it to be by cherry picking bad examples. we don't have as extreme examples of bad health care as the US system has to offer.

keep in mind, those are just my observations without having had the bad luck to have encountered the devil in detail.

Who pays for the people who can't afford the insurance?

the state via unemployment benefits, if you apply and qualify for them.

 

[Newby]

My point in this whole thing is that it is orchestrated in such a way that eventually it will be a single payer system (US Gov) with how all of the rules are written. That is how it has been designed.

 

[Harry Dresden]

i live in germany, but i am no expert on health care, so i can not give you valuable information. as i am lucky to be without major or minor health problems i have not yet run into any problems yet.

in germany there are two options, private health care and what you would call government run healthcare, i think, which is mandatory if you don't use the private option.

it is a two class system. mostly rich people have the option for private health care, they are the ones who will not have to wait long for an appointment with a doctor. because the docs will get more money from privately insured patients. this is a major source for the problems, as health care is more and more run like a business which has to be profitable and not as a service which cares for the health of the people.

there are a lot of problems with our health care system, but it is not as bad as opponents of a government run health care system in the US paint it to be by cherry picking bad examples. we don't have as extreme examples of bad health care as the US system has to offer.

keep in mind, those are just my observations without having had the bad luck to have encountered the devil in detail.

but the bolded paragraph points out a very telling ....POINT....

 

[Zoom-boing]

My point in this whole thing is that it is orchestrated in such a way that eventually it will be a single payer system (US Gov) with how all of the rules are written. That is how it has been designed.

Exactly. This 'health care reform' is nothing but a means to an end - government control. Why are people so willing to let the government run this? Why aren't they (congress) looking to fix the current system, rather than introducing a whole new ball game? Ah, that darn 'means to an end' sure is a stickler.

 

[L.K.Eder]

i live in germany, but i am no expert on health care, so i can not give you valuable information. as i am lucky to be without major or minor health problems i have not yet run into any problems yet.

in germany there are two options, private health care and what you would call government run healthcare, i think, which is mandatory if you don't use the private option.

it is a two class system. mostly rich people have the option for private health care, they are the ones who will not have to wait long for an appointment with a doctor. because the docs will get more money from privately insured patients. this is a major source for the problems, as health care is more and more run like a business which has to be profitable and not as a service which cares for the health of the people.

there are a lot of problems with our health care system, but it is not as bad as opponents of a government run health care system in the US paint it to be by cherry picking bad examples. we don't have as extreme examples of bad health care as the US system has to offer.

keep in mind, those are just my observations without having had the bad luck to have encountered the devil in detail.

but the bolded paragraph points out a very telling ....POINT....

grin, yeah. several points could be made from that paragraph.

what did you see?