You are right, separation of Church and State is not found in the constitution. It is, however, Jefferson's description of the intent of the establishment clause. Most people who trot out this argument don't understand the historic context of this concept.
Many early immigrant groups traveled to America to worship freely, particularly after the English Civil War and religious conflict in France and Germany.[8] They included nonconformists like the Puritans, as well as Catholics. Despite a common background, the groups' views on religious toleration were mixed. While some such as Roger Williams of Rhode Island and William Penn ensured the protection of religious minorities within their colonies, others like the Plymouth Colony and Massachusetts Bay Colony had established churches.
The Dutch colony of New Netherland established the Dutch Reformed Church and outlawed all other worship, though enforcement was sparse. Religious conformity was desired partly for financial reasons: the established Church was responsible for poverty relief, so dissenting churches would have a significant edge.
Separation of church and state in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Consider the case of the Danbury Baptist Association, to whom Thomas Jefferson directed the letter which contains the phrase "a wall of separation between church and state." At the time when Jefferson penned that phrase, every person in the state of Connecticut was required to pay MANDATORY church taxes to the Congregational religious hierarchy, and this status quo (in Connecticut) wasn't overturned until 1818.
In other words, when the constitution was drafted, there were still established churches in multiple states in the U.S. Those churches taxed residents, provided services, and people of dissenting faiths could not opt out of their control of these things.
Our nation's stance on these issues has evolved gradually over time, based upon the writings of the founding fathers, particularly jefferson and madison, and based upon the development of state constitutions and case law.
Religious folks should beware about inviting government to sit in the pew with them. That's a match designed to cause some degree of discomfort to both.
I think Madison said it best when he wrote: "We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts. do better without Kings & Nobles than with them.
The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Govt."
Guess you missed this the first time I posted. Go to the source which is the Library of Congress and read the abundant documents that makes it clear that the "separation of Church and State" was not meant to keep religion out of government. I mean seriously if that was Jefferson's intent then why would he allow Church services to be held in executive branch buildings?
Sometimes you idiots have to use some common sense. If that is at all possible.
And the Madison quote you bolded in is basically what i said earlier, separation of church and state is to keep government out of our religious affairs, not to keep religion out of government.
Read more about Jefferson and Madison and how they used government buildings for church services and then tell me they wanted this so-call wall of separation.
Jefferson attended church services in the House of Representatives. Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.
Church services were held in what is now called Statuary Hall (The Old House of Representatives) from 1807 to 1857. The first services in the Capitol, held when the government moved to Washington in the fall of 1800, were conducted in the "hall" of the House in the north wing of the building. In 1801 the House moved to temporary quarters in the south wing, called the "Oven," which it vacated in 1804, returning to the north wing for three years. Services were conducted in the House until after the Civil War. The Speaker's podium was used as the preacher's pulpit.
Abijah Bigelow, a Federalist congressman from Massachusetts, describes President James Madison at a church service in the House on December 27, 1812, as well as an incident that had occurred when Jefferson was in attendance some years earlier.
On January 8, 1826, Bishop John England (1786-1842) of Charleston, South Carolina, became the first Catholic clergyman to preach in the House of Representatives. The overflow audience included President John Quincy Adams, whose July 4, 1821, speech England rebutted in his sermon. Adams had claimed that the Roman Catholic Church was intolerant of other religions and therefore incompatible with republican institutions. England asserted that "we do not believe that God gave to the church any power to interfere with our civil rights, or our civil concerns." "I would not allow to the Pope, or to any bishop of our church," added England, "the smallest interference with the humblest vote at our most insignificant balloting box."
In 1827, Harriet Livermore (1788-1868), the daughter and granddaughter of Congressmen, became the second woman to preach in the House of Representatives. The first woman to preach before the House (and probably the first woman to speak officially in Congress under any circumstances) was the English evangelist, Dorothy Ripley (1767-1832), who conducted a service on January 12, 1806. Jefferson and Vice President Aaron Burr were among those in a "crowded audience." Sizing up the congregation, Ripley concluded that "very few" had been born again and broke into an urgent, camp meeting style exhortation, insisting that "Christ's Body was the Bread of Life and His Blood the drink of the righteous."
Manasseh Cutler here describes a four-hour communion service in the Treasury Building, conducted by a Presbyterian minister, the Reverend James Laurie: "Attended worship at the Treasury. Mr. Laurie alone. Sacrament. Full assembly. Three tables; service very solemn; nearly four hours."
The first Treasury Building, where several denominations conducted church services, was burned by the British in 1814. The new building, seen here on the lower right, was built on approximately the same location as the earlier one, within view of the White House.
John Quincy Adams here describes the Reverend James Laurie, pastor of a Presbyterian Church that had settled into the Treasury Building, preaching to an overflow audience in the Supreme Court Chamber, which in 1806 was located on the ground floor of the Capitol.
Description of church services in the Supreme Court chamber by Manasseh Cutler (1804) and John Quincy Adams (1806) indicate that services were held in the Court soon after the government moved to Washington in 1800.
Charles Boynton (1806-1883) was in 1867 chaplain of the House of Representatives and organizing pastor of the First Congregational Church in Washington, which was trying at that time to build its own sanctuary. In the meantime the church, as Boynton informed potential donors, was holding services "at the Hall of Representatives" where "the audience is the largest in town. . . .nearly 2000 assembled every Sabbath" for services, making the congregation in the House the "largest Protestant Sabbath audience then in the United States." The First Congregational Church met in the House from 1865 to 1868.
The House moved to its current location on the south side of the Capitol in 1857. It contained the "largest Protestant Sabbath audience" in the United States when the First Congregational Church of Washington held services there from 1865 to 1868.
Sources and authentic letters.
Man you have more patience for her then I..Kunga Din.
