Another Good Month On The Jobs Front...unemployment Drops To 5.9%

[Politico]

Economy gains 248 000 jobs as hiring rebounds

The labor market rebounded sharply in September as employers added 248,000 jobs, the second largest gain for any month this year.
The unemployment rate fell to 5.9% from 6.1%, lowest since July 2008, the Labor Department said Friday.

The Leftytoon force is strong in this Leftwinger who thinks anyone is fooled by his fake screen name.

 

[Oldstyle]

All that chart shows me is a recovery from a recession that is just grinding along...which is exactly what we've gotten from a President who's probably the most clueless Chief Executive when it comes to economics that we've ever had.

Your conclusion assumes a president that got everything he wanted from a Republican party that has been hell bent for the last 6 years in NOT giving him anything. Try again.

I never assumed Obama got what he wanted from the GOP. Let's be brutally honest here, Oro...when Obama first took office he didn't NEED the GOP and made that perfectly clear with the way he governed. When he lost the House in the 2010 midterms...THEN he needed to make deals with the GOP but at that point he'd "poisoned the well" so completely with the way he'd done business the first two years that Republicans LOATHED him! Barack Obama's personality doesn't lend itself to compromise like Bill Clinton's did after HE lost control of Congress and had to deal with Newt Gingrich and the "Contract with America" GOP.

 

[Oldstyle]

What was he proposing right before he lost control of the House in 2010? Cap & Trade legislation that would have killed even more jobs!

Yes, YOUR guess, AND you Klowns said the same about the clean air, water, EPA, etc...

Since the EPA was something Nixon gave us that's about as stupid an argument as you've made yet!

Weird how the GOP fought it right?

Nixon created the EPA by executive order in 1970 as a sop to the anti-Vietanm war left — not because he thought an EPA was needed.

Nixon reassigned to the EPA the ongoing environmental protection activities of other federal agencies.

So Nixon’s move was little more than a cynical bureaucratic reshuffling done to facilitate his Vietnam policies — not some proud legacy of the Republican party.

Myth Nixon created the EPA to help the environment JunkScience.com

Where do you get this nonsense? Nixon couldn't have cared LESS about the anti-Vietnam war left! You get more and more idiotic with each post in this string!

And yet he promised them he would get us out of Vietnam, and he did.

Come on, Oro...if you know anything about Richard Nixon you know that he wasn't doing things back then to appease the far Left! He took us out of Vietnam because it had become obvious that we were not going to "win" that war.

 

[Dad2three]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed. Both parties share the blame for that.

Shadow banking, overtook the traditional banking sector 2004-2007, they were going bust IF the Gov't didn't step up

The shadow banking system is a term for the collection of non-bank financial intermediaries that provide services similar to traditional commercial banks. Former Federal Reserve Chair Ben Bernanke provided a definition in April 2012: "Shadow banking, as usually defined, comprises a diverse set of institutions and markets that, collectively, carry out traditional banking functions--but do so outside, or in ways only loosely linked to, the traditional system of regulated depository institutions. Examples of important components of the shadow banking system include securitization vehicles, asset-backed commercial paper (ABCP) conduits, money market mutual funds, markets for repurchase agreements (repos), investment banks, and mortgage companies." Shadow banking has grown in importance to rival traditional depository banking and was a primary factor in the subprime mortgage crisis of 2007-2008 and global recession that followed.


Shadow banking system - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



Lehman's demise also made it the largest victim, of the U.S. subprime mortgage-induced financial crisis that swept through global financial markets in 2008. Lehman's collapse was a seminal event that greatly intensified the 2008 crisis and contributed to the erosion of close to $10 trillion in market capitalization from global equity markets in October 2008, the biggest monthly decline on record at the time.

Case Study The Collapse of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Ok, and how has your choice alleviated any of that?

Obama Rewards Wall Street Again Thwarts Reform By Sacking Gensler - Forbes

By most measures, Mr. Gensler would have been an unlikely reformer.

Mr. Gensler pursued a second act where many Goldmanites before him had gone: the Treasury Department. During his tenure there, Mr. Gensler helped enact legislation exempting from oversight broad swathes of derivatives trading, the same industry that was later at the center of the 2008 crisis.

Funny how the far left blasted Bush for having an unemployment rate of 4.6%. Yet praise Obama for numbers like 10.2, 9.6, 8.2, 6.9, and 5.9..

Who 'blasted' Dubya for 4.6 (even if he inherited 4%)? You mean WHY was it 4.6%? Oh right his PONZI scheme where he cheered the Banksters on. It was called a false economy

What was Dubya's final (Jan 2009) unemployment numbers? And who was responsible for the 4+ million jobs lost in Obama's first 9 months?

When Bush left office the unemployment rate was 7.8%. After the Obama Stimulus it went up to 10% and didn't come down below 9% for another TWO AND A HALF YEARS!!!

Well, the way to look at it, is the last time the republicans had majority power the unemployment rate was 4.6 percent.

Then the democrats took over the House and senate, and there was a democratic super majority in 2009. You see the unemployment rate during that time?

No?

Then republicans recaptured in the House in 2010.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

AGAIN, ONE policy the Dems had that changed Dubya's policies? AND policies that the GOP then had from 2010 that HELPED Obama's recovery from Dubya's recession? lol

 

[Dad2three]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed. Both parties share the blame for that.

Shadow banking, overtook the traditional banking sector 2004-2007, they were going bust IF the Gov't didn't step up

The shadow banking system is a term for the collection of non-bank financial intermediaries that provide services similar to traditional commercial banks. Former Federal Reserve Chair Ben Bernanke provided a definition in April 2012: "Shadow banking, as usually defined, comprises a diverse set of institutions and markets that, collectively, carry out traditional banking functions--but do so outside, or in ways only loosely linked to, the traditional system of regulated depository institutions. Examples of important components of the shadow banking system include securitization vehicles, asset-backed commercial paper (ABCP) conduits, money market mutual funds, markets for repurchase agreements (repos), investment banks, and mortgage companies." Shadow banking has grown in importance to rival traditional depository banking and was a primary factor in the subprime mortgage crisis of 2007-2008 and global recession that followed.


Shadow banking system - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



Lehman's demise also made it the largest victim, of the U.S. subprime mortgage-induced financial crisis that swept through global financial markets in 2008. Lehman's collapse was a seminal event that greatly intensified the 2008 crisis and contributed to the erosion of close to $10 trillion in market capitalization from global equity markets in October 2008, the biggest monthly decline on record at the time.

Case Study The Collapse of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Ok, and how has your choice alleviated any of that?

Obama Rewards Wall Street Again Thwarts Reform By Sacking Gensler - Forbes

By most measures, Mr. Gensler would have been an unlikely reformer.

Mr. Gensler pursued a second act where many Goldmanites before him had gone: the Treasury Department. During his tenure there, Mr. Gensler helped enact legislation exempting from oversight broad swathes of derivatives trading, the same industry that was later at the center of the 2008 crisis.

Glad you agree the 'job creators' aren't doing what they promised with their lowest SUSTAINED tax burden for 80+ years, time to get back to getting them to pay their fair share if they get less than half the effective tax rates they had 1in the 1940's and 1950's on 300%+ more share of the pie!!!
'

How does that have anything to do with families unable to get high paying career jobs, but are stuck in part time employment? College Graduates Are stuck with jobs that only require high school education, and you blame the fact corporations aren't paying enough in taxes. These results I previously stated are proof trickle up doesn't work, the stimulus failed to produce a robust economy, and you don't have the slightest clue about economic issues and job creation.

Wingnut, the stimulus had ONE purpose, to stop US from going into ANOTHER GOP great depression, it worked, though it was too small

Weird, how'd the US do with Dubya's UNFUNDED (cutting spending) tax cuts? Oh right, 8 years later the US had lost over 1,000,000+ PRIVATE sector jobs



Neo-Liberalism/Conservatives is/has destroyed the American Economy in favor of the so called "Job Creator"... In reality are "Job Exporters"...

The only reason the American economy is stalled is because the GOTP kicks the leg from under it, every time the economy begins to recover in the name of cutting the deficit

The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.


"Dynastic wealth, the enemy of a meritocracy, is on the rise. Equality of opportunity has been on the decline. A progressive and meaningful estate tax is needed to curb the movement of a democracy toward plutocracy." Warren Buffett

TARP kept the economy from going into another Great Depression...the Obama Stimulus simply spent nearly a trillion dollars taking care of Obama supporters like Public Sector Unions and "Green Energy" companies while it left the Private Sector twisting in the wind.

And if the stimulus REALLY "worked"...then why did the Obama Administration have to come up with a new measurement "jobs created or saved" instead of using the existing one that measured how many jobs were created? The answer to that is obvious! They spent ALL that money and didn't come close to creating the jobs they said they would. They resorted to the "jobs created or saved" scam to hide how badly the stimulus was at creating jobs.

CBO Director Demolishes GOP's Stimulus Myth

Under questioning from skeptical Republicans, the director of the nonpartisan (and widely respected) Congressional Budget Office was emphatic about the value of the 2009 stimulus. And, he said, the vast majority of economists agree.


In a survey conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, 80 percent of economic experts agreed that, because of the stimulus, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been otherwise.

Based on what data? I love how the left creates this "would have been" data that doesn't exist to try and justify this kind of wasted spending below.

$150 Million - for the SmithsonianMuseum. Are additional rooms really necessary at this time?
$75 Million - for "smoking cessation activities"
$25 million - for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction
$200 Million - to fund the LEASE of alternative energy vehicles for the use on military installations. They are soldiers who march from building to building, and Michelle Obama has also held the need for MORE people to be physically fit.
$88 Million - for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Services. I wouldn't think of renovating my OWN house until I knew I could afford it
$160 Million - for "paid volunteers" ... at the Corporation for National and community Service If they are paid they are not volunteers, they are called employees.
$5.5 Million - for "energy efficiencyinitiatives" at the Department of Veteran Affairs National Cemetery Administration. Electric hearses?? .. or are we talking about electric lawn mowers here?

This is but a few areas of the kind of jobs and "much needed" spending was supposedly necessary to help improve the economy - lol

Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs

It's no surprise that the administration would proclaim its own policies a success. But its verdict is backed by economists at Goldman Sachs, IHS Global Insight, JPMorgan Chase and Macroeconomic Advisers, who say the stimulus boosted gross domestic product by 2.1% to 2.7%.

Economists agree Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs - USATODAY.com

NEXT TALKING POINT? LOL

​

Part time jobs and college grads working high school jobs, doesn't make a strong economy

You seriously arguing the stimulus didn't keep US out ogf ANOTHER GOP great depression? lol


In 1980 the top 1% earned 8.5% of total income. In 2007 they earned 23%.

In 1980 the bottom 90% earned 68% of total income. In 2007 they earned 53%.

Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data Tax Foundation

GOV'T POLICY MATTERS !!!

The Republican Party hasn't had a single idea that benefited the majority of Americans since before Reagan.


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

 

[Dad2three]

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed.

lol, SERIOUSLY? Do you NOT remember the fall of 2008, and the WORLD WIDE CRASH that the Banksters created with their shadow banking that Dubya cheered on?

Private Banksters CREATED a world wide credit bubble, they looked at short term profits ahead of their own firms best inters ts, grow a brain!

The parts of the economy that went belly up, were those NOT regulated, or where regulations existed, but were mainly ignored by Dubya's EXECUTIVE BRANCH OVERSIGHT!!!


FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


The biggest culprits in the housing fiasco came from the private sector, and more specifically from a mortgage industry that was out of control. These included lenders who originated home loans, investment bankers who packaged them into securities, rating agencies that misjudged these securities, and global investors who bought them without much, if any, study.

In other words, America’s mortgage securitization machine was fundamentally broken. It created millions of mortgage loans that, even under reasonable economic assumptions, stood little chance of being repaid — and were not.




Also to blame, of course, were regulators, who gave the private mortgage market little, if any, oversight. The market’s watchdogs were lulled to sleep by a misplaced view that self-interested private financial institutions would regulate themselves.

McCains 2008 economic adviser By Mark Zandi


Fannie and Freddie don t deserve blame for bubble - The Washington Post

You apparently missed the part where I said, "neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly." So when you quote an advisor of the losing team, I revert to my previous comment.

Obama and McCain are both frauds.

Yes, Dubya/GOP dug a DEEP and wide hole and the GOP has been a disloyal o position party against US

Your choice dug a DEEP and wide hole too. Obamacare was even more unfunded than Medicare Part D.

A HUGE fukkkkking lie. I'm shocked, no really I am. lol


Something that was funded 100%+ according to the CBO was what Obama/Dems gave US

Dubya/GOP pushed through in the middle of the night, a bill that had ZERO funding mechanisms but relied on the general fund, as he then went and took US to Korean war level revenues. Going from the nearly 21% of GDP Clinton gavce US to 125%... Brilliant fukkking 'fiscal' policy

 

[Dad2three]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed. Both parties share the blame for that.

Shadow banking, overtook the traditional banking sector 2004-2007, they were going bust IF the Gov't didn't step up

The shadow banking system is a term for the collection of non-bank financial intermediaries that provide services similar to traditional commercial banks. Former Federal Reserve Chair Ben Bernanke provided a definition in April 2012: "Shadow banking, as usually defined, comprises a diverse set of institutions and markets that, collectively, carry out traditional banking functions--but do so outside, or in ways only loosely linked to, the traditional system of regulated depository institutions. Examples of important components of the shadow banking system include securitization vehicles, asset-backed commercial paper (ABCP) conduits, money market mutual funds, markets for repurchase agreements (repos), investment banks, and mortgage companies." Shadow banking has grown in importance to rival traditional depository banking and was a primary factor in the subprime mortgage crisis of 2007-2008 and global recession that followed.


Shadow banking system - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



Lehman's demise also made it the largest victim, of the U.S. subprime mortgage-induced financial crisis that swept through global financial markets in 2008. Lehman's collapse was a seminal event that greatly intensified the 2008 crisis and contributed to the erosion of close to $10 trillion in market capitalization from global equity markets in October 2008, the biggest monthly decline on record at the time.

Case Study The Collapse of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Ok, and how has your choice alleviated any of that?

Obama Rewards Wall Street Again Thwarts Reform By Sacking Gensler - Forbes

By most measures, Mr. Gensler would have been an unlikely reformer.

Mr. Gensler pursued a second act where many Goldmanites before him had gone: the Treasury Department. During his tenure there, Mr. Gensler helped enact legislation exempting from oversight broad swathes of derivatives trading, the same industry that was later at the center of the 2008 crisis.

They never predicted that. You're an idiot.

Sure they did, it's right there in the chart. Are you saying the Obama Administration never made the claim I presented?

No, they PREDICTED IT with MANY disclaimers BEFORE the extent of Dubya's great recession was known. ARRA was passed in Feb 2009. The estimates were done end of Dec 2008 and beginning of 2009. The US economy contracted 9%_+ the last quarter, no one saw that coming!

The claim that Obama promised the stimulus would keep the unemployment rate below 8 percent has been a favorite talking point among Republicans....

PolitiFact has examined the statement repeatedly, each time rating it Mostly False.


But contrary to Cantor’s claim, the Romer-Bernstein report did not make promises about the unemployment rate. It made qualified projections.

Page 2 of the report states, "It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program.

"Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."


Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent PolitiFact Virginia

They sold the idiots a plan and spent a considerable amount of resources and focus pushing the chart. They ended up being too clever for their own good, we would have been better off without their interventionalist methods.

Opinion

PLEASE give me ONE policy conservatives/libertarians have EVER been on the correct side of history on? Just one?

How are the states that follow the libertarian bullshit? Kansas or Wisconsin for example? lol

How about nations that tried the conservatives 'austerity'?

You are incorrectly framing the question, for obvious reasons. Politics is not a "we won" situation, that much should be painfully obvious. Politics is the art of pushing an agenda for the long term regardless of which people are in control. The conservative position has been losing the ground game for a long time, so much that the liberal position has exacerbated the pain to justify the existence of the policies. You folks are no longer trying to create prosperity, you're now saying that things are so bad that society needs you to subsidize everyone.

Think about that for a minute, your side is no longer promising nor suggesting prosperity. Your side is pushing dependence and retribution. That's a far cry from the "green economy" from the Hope and Change speeches.

You can look at the planet, see no Conservative or LIbertarian success stories and think the Libertarian and Conservative ideas are failures. I look at the same situation and I see that the planet is not prospering and that there are not any Libertarian or Conservative regimes in any significant positions of power. Plus, I'm not a partisan. I don't think my ideas are so great that they have to be mandatory.

Your 'ideas' are nothing but myths and fairy tales that fail EVERY TIME they are tried

Libertarians/conservatives have fought EVERYTHING that created the middle class

They were against labor laws, min wage, unions, fought civil rights, etc

NOTHING that the conservatives EVER support turns out on the correct side of history

Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.


80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America Wealth Income and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.


Neo-Liberalism/Conservatives is/has destroyed the American Economy in favor of the so called "Job Creator"... In reality are "Job Exporters"...

The audience for Limbaugh ( OxyContin addicted alcoholic, sexual and racially bigoted, old white dude that's wed to a woman young enough to be his grandchild) Fox News (nonfactual, biased, conjecture, lies and half-truths) and the editorial pages of Wall Street Journal have the demographics of the core Republican base: middle-aged white men, churchgoers (non-spiritual) and hateful, bigoted Southerners.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

How does that have anything to do with families unable to get high paying career jobs, but are stuck in part time employment? College Graduates Are stuck with jobs that only require high school education, and you blame the fact corporations aren't paying enough in taxes. These results I previously stated are proof trickle up doesn't work, the stimulus failed to produce a robust economy, and you don't have the slightest clue about economic issues and job creation.

Wingnut, the stimulus had ONE purpose, to stop US from going into ANOTHER GOP great depression, it worked, though it was too small

Weird, how'd the US do with Dubya's UNFUNDED (cutting spending) tax cuts? Oh right, 8 years later the US had lost over 1,000,000+ PRIVATE sector jobs



Neo-Liberalism/Conservatives is/has destroyed the American Economy in favor of the so called "Job Creator"... In reality are "Job Exporters"...

The only reason the American economy is stalled is because the GOTP kicks the leg from under it, every time the economy begins to recover in the name of cutting the deficit

The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.


"Dynastic wealth, the enemy of a meritocracy, is on the rise. Equality of opportunity has been on the decline. A progressive and meaningful estate tax is needed to curb the movement of a democracy toward plutocracy." Warren Buffett

TARP kept the economy from going into another Great Depression...the Obama Stimulus simply spent nearly a trillion dollars taking care of Obama supporters like Public Sector Unions and "Green Energy" companies while it left the Private Sector twisting in the wind.

And if the stimulus REALLY "worked"...then why did the Obama Administration have to come up with a new measurement "jobs created or saved" instead of using the existing one that measured how many jobs were created? The answer to that is obvious! They spent ALL that money and didn't come close to creating the jobs they said they would. They resorted to the "jobs created or saved" scam to hide how badly the stimulus was at creating jobs.

CBO Director Demolishes GOP's Stimulus Myth

Under questioning from skeptical Republicans, the director of the nonpartisan (and widely respected) Congressional Budget Office was emphatic about the value of the 2009 stimulus. And, he said, the vast majority of economists agree.


In a survey conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, 80 percent of economic experts agreed that, because of the stimulus, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been otherwise.

Based on what data? I love how the left creates this "would have been" data that doesn't exist to try and justify this kind of wasted spending below.

$150 Million - for the SmithsonianMuseum. Are additional rooms really necessary at this time?
$75 Million - for "smoking cessation activities"
$25 million - for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction
$200 Million - to fund the LEASE of alternative energy vehicles for the use on military installations. They are soldiers who march from building to building, and Michelle Obama has also held the need for MORE people to be physically fit.
$88 Million - for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Services. I wouldn't think of renovating my OWN house until I knew I could afford it
$160 Million - for "paid volunteers" ... at the Corporation for National and community Service If they are paid they are not volunteers, they are called employees.
$5.5 Million - for "energy efficiencyinitiatives" at the Department of Veteran Affairs National Cemetery Administration. Electric hearses?? .. or are we talking about electric lawn mowers here?

This is but a few areas of the kind of jobs and "much needed" spending was supposedly necessary to help improve the economy - lol

Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs

It's no surprise that the administration would proclaim its own policies a success. But its verdict is backed by economists at Goldman Sachs, IHS Global Insight, JPMorgan Chase and Macroeconomic Advisers, who say the stimulus boosted gross domestic product by 2.1% to 2.7%.

Economists agree Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs - USATODAY.com

NEXT TALKING POINT? LOL

​

Part time jobs and college grads working high school jobs, doesn't make a strong economy

You seriously arguing the stimulus didn't keep US out ogf ANOTHER GOP great depression? lol


In 1980 the top 1% earned 8.5% of total income. In 2007 they earned 23%.

In 1980 the bottom 90% earned 68% of total income. In 2007 they earned 53%.

Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data Tax Foundation

GOV'T POLICY MATTERS !!!

The Republican Party hasn't had a single idea that benefited the majority of Americans since before Reagan.


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

Again, may I remind you of the facts regarding the current economy AFTER the stimulus, AFTER unemployment extensions, AFTER the trickle up theory.


46% of college grads are underemployed at jobs that don't require a degree.

September employment numbers indicate 7.1 million are involuntarily working part-time for economic reasons (little change from a month ago)

Household income of American families is lower now, adjusted for inflation, than when efforts for a recovery began.


Yes ... that is household income is lower NOW after all the BILLIONS spent on the stimulus and unemployment extensions. People forced to settle with part-time employment when they rather work full-time AFTER the stimulus, 46% of grads are UNDERemployed even AFTER the stimulus.

The results speaks for themselves pretty clear.

 

[Dad2three]

The labor participation rate peaked under President Clinton.

So all you RWnuts obsessing on the labor participation rate have to concede that the best president in that regard would be to elect another Bill Clinton.

Clinton had a Republican Congress and an unprecedented boom in the dotcom bubble that went south shortly after he left office. Unlike Obama, Clinton paid attention to the Congress and negotiated and compromised.

Sure, must have been why GOPers shut doiwn the Gov't, TWICE and impeached Clinton

The economy was good, IN SPITE of GOP nonsense, AFTER Clinton's/Dems first surplus the GOP passed a $700+ billion tax cut Clinton had to veto to get 3 more, then Dubya came in and had 6 years of GOP Congress to **** EVERYTHING up!

I don't think the current Republicans have the solution, but have you noticed the correlation of an increase in Republican representative political power under a Democratic President and an improving economy? Think about it.

Republicans took the House of Representatives in 1994 and then the dot-com boom fueled a huge growth spurt. Republicans took the House of Representatives in 2010 and the Great Recession bottomed out. Republican Presidents don't seem to have much of a sustaining force in growth and Republican Presidents with Republican Majorities in the House are just dangerous (boom and bust). But pure Democratic control doesn't work either (unless you think Obamacare has been great for the economy, in which case you are delusional). What do you think?

The hard part is figuring out the party from the person. Was Obama a good President? I don't think so. He was adequate. Was Bush a good President? I thought he was slightly better than adequate 5 years into his term and then things went sour. I think he got a lot of his job right but got a lot of it wrong.

We don't know how things are going to go on Obama's way out after a major party shift but I'm sure the partisans of the left are going to blame it on the November elections, just as the partisans on the right blame the November 2006 elections.

We saw what happened when the Republicans controlled the Presidency, House and Senate. We also saw what happened when the Democrats controlled those three. Neither were good.

"but have you noticed the correlation of an increase in Republican representative political power under a Democratic President and an improving economy? Think about it."

lol, SERIOUSLY? If you were HONEST, you'd recognize the effects of the stimulus and GOOD GOV'T policy instituted and steered by Obama. PLEASE give me ANYTHING the GOPers passed in Congress that could be tied to improving the economy? ALL they did was wack spending whjich slowed down the recovery, ALL to attempt to make Obama a 1 termer. Their 'austerity' failed EVERYWHERE it was tried!!!

All I have to do is look at the results projected when there weren't any Republicans in power and the result of those policies.

Did it work?

No.


LOL, COMPARED TO WHAT? YOU MEAN IT WAS PREFERABLE TO THE ECONOMY DUMPING 9%+ LIKE DUBYA'S LAST QUARTER?

In a survey conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, 80 percent of economic experts agreed that, because of the stimulus, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been otherwise.


"Only 4 percent disagreed or strongly disagreed," CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee. "That," he added, "is a distinct minority."

CBO Director Demolishes GOP s Stimulus Myth


Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs

Economists agree Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs - USATODAY.com

Weird you REALLY can't be honest and understand how much Prez policy REALLY matters and how the GOP has hosed US for 30+ years

I remember the dot-com boom and I remember Democrats calling Bob Dole delusional for predicting 15% GDP growth from it if government would just get out of the way and make it happen. I even remember Sen. Sam Nunn telling a whole room full of people that it was a funny inside joke in Washington when Clinton took credit for the boom he did nothing to create.

See that's the difference, I don't think it's a good idea to put the President in charge of the economy.

"The deficit has come down, and I give the Clinton Administration and President Clinton himself a lot of credit for that. [He] did something about it, fast. And I think we are seeing some benefits."
— Paul Volcker, Federal Reserve Board Chairman (1979-1987), in Audacity, Fall 1994

"Clinton’s 1993 budget cuts, which reduced projected red ink by more than $400 billion over five years, sparked a major drop in interest rates that helped boost investment in all the equipment and systems that brought forth the New Age economy of technological innovation and rising productivity."
— Business Week, May 19, 1997


One of the reasons Goldman Sachs cites for the "best economy ever" is that "on the policy side, trade, fiscal, and monetary policies have been excellent, working in ways that have facilitated growth without inflation. The Clinton Administration has worked to liberalize trade and has used any revenue windfalls to reduce the federal budget deficit."
— Goldman Sachs, March 1998

It's like conservatives arguing the GOP gave US the 4 surpluses under Clinton, even though they were a result of Clinton/Dems cutting almost $500 billion in spending and increasing taxes in 1993, where not a single GOPer voted for it. After Clinton's first surplus the GOP passed a $700+ billion tax cut that Clinton had to veto to get 3 more. Then Dubya came into office and we saw what happens!

I'm aware of partisans who think that it's a coincidence that the economy took off after the liberal big spenders got some temperance. That didn't work out in 2009-2010 when you folks had the House, Senate and the Presidency. It didn't work in 1993-1994 either.

Mind you, the short term expansion of the Republican trifecta in 2002-2007 didn't work either.

Weird, you'd think ONCE you'd be honest. Yes, it doesn't matter how wide or deep Dubya drove the economy into the ground and took US from nearly 21% of GDP in revenues to 15% AND had 2 UNFUNDED wars and UNFUNDED Medicare expansion ALONG with his 2 UNFUNDED tax cuts. Fukkking lying POS

"My colleagues and I have been very appreciative of your [President Clinton’s] support of the Fed over the years, and your commitment to fiscal discipline has been instrumental in achieving what in a few weeks will be the longest economic expansion in the nation’s history."
— Alan Greenspan, Federal Reserve Board Chairman, January 4, 2000, with President Clinton at Chairman Greenspan’s re-nomination announcement


YEAH, IT WASN'T THE FISCAL DISCIPLINE OF THE DEMS IN THE 1990'S OR THE FAILURE OF THE SAME OF THE GOP IN THE 2000'S

GOP has went so far right, they are trying to 'starve the beast' and play up to the libertarians, which I assume you are one. That libertarian crap NEVER works ANYWHERE it's ever been tried, it's just myths and fairy tales!

You just tipped your hand. You're playing last decade's game, the culture war. Good luck with that. Yes, I'm a Libertarian but I'm not a partisan. I won't be voting party over vision. Although with the current demographics you should be a little more savvy and encourage a right of center Libertarian to vote along party lines instead of trying to convince me to believe in your dreck.


ONE state or nation to EVER successfully use that garbage? lol

How did the Banksters watch out for their own corps during Dubya's subprime bubble? Those with little regulation, or where regulation existed but was largely ignored by Dubya was where the problem came from right?


"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organisations, specifically banks and others, were such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms," said Allan Greenspan.


Greenspan - I was wrong about the economy. Sort of Business The Guardian

Dubya adequate huh? I guess 2% growth over his first 7 years (Stopping end of 2007), allowing the US household debt to double with his cheering on the subprime Banksters, ignoring at least 19 warnings about 9/11, his 2 UNFUNDED wars (one on false premises), 2 UNFUNDED tax cuts DURING wars, UNFUNDED Medicare expansion then the biggest recession since Coolidge/Harding's depression. Yeah, I could see how you would see him as 'slightly better than adequate'

If your choice was anything close to Bush you wouldn't have to bring up all the talking points about how this isn't Obama's fault. If your choice and your movement had any substance you wouldn't have to excuse the lackluster "recovery" with all sorts of justifications about how the previous administration fucked things up (which coincidentally started with your party taking control of the House of Representatives).

You can blame Bush all you want, but your side promised results far beyond what your side has been able to deliver. At least there was a period of prosperity under Bush. Yes it was short-lived and yes it crashed (as markets tend to do from time to time) but there in so little prosperity under Obama that it's not even a promise by your side anymore. You have no plan and you have no results. You have "we're not as bad as the other guy."

A funny developement (in the cosmic sense) is that your side, the anti-war side, fucked up the withdrawal so much that we're going back into war in an election year! You folks are so anti-war but you lack the resolve to actually BE anti-war.

You folks are so grasping that literally everything wrong in the 6 years of your leader is the fault of Bush. It's almost like he's still in charge since your choice can't seem to get control. Not too shabby for the person you think is an idiot, huh? Maybe you folks on the far left just don't know how to govern.

Weird YOU claim 'my side', presumably you mean the Dems, as I am an Independent who hates you fukkking conservatives, fukked things up when they took power. PLEASE give me the bills they passed that changed Dubya's policies? Pretty please

Weird you consider 2% growth a year over Dubya's first 7 years, with EVERYTHING put on the credit card, going to a war on false premises that fukkked everything up in the middle east, 'successful'? lol


RECOVERY? Oh right from Dubya'sGOP policies. Weird how conservatives/libertarians are NEVER honest

How many boots are going to be on the ground again?


We already know what economic policies work best for our country. Clinton knew that we had to cut spending and increase revenues. We had revenues of 20.6% of GDP and a surplus in 2000. Then something terrible happened, the Republicans gained complete control in 2001 and instead of sticking with what was working they decided that their ideology was more important. The debt has gone up $12 trillion since then.

 

[Dad2three]

If we were to somehow, magically, mercifully flush the torrent of partisan bullshit out of this whole story, it would look something like this:

1. The economy suffered a massive jolt, and we were literally days from catastrophe. Point the finger of blame at whomever your ideology dictates.

2. The steps took to halt the meltdown and restore liquidity were pretty much the only available options, for the most part. Give credit for this to whomever your ideology dictates.

3. Obama is now President. We still have relative capitalism and relative free markets. With Obama in office, the addition of liquidity continues. The economy finally reaches its bottom and stabilizes. Because we have relative capitalism and relative free markets, the economy slowly does what it does naturally, slowly beginning the healing process and building momentum and adding strength to itself via velocity of money and markets. In other words, that's the way we roll. That's the power of "free" markets. Once the economy was stabilized, this was gonna happen. The only variable is how quickly.

4. Because the economy had been in such a shit hole and so many people were unemployed, employment growth figures look almost like a jobs boom, but all that is happening is a general, organic process of replacing the dead wood that was left as a result of the Meltdown. It's not as if employers are dancing the happy dance over the environment. Obama is in office and, as Presidents do, he gets credit for the numbers. Great.

Could the numbers have been better with someone else in office? Meh, I think so, but the question is irrelevant, it's nice to see improvement. And like a quarterback, the President generally gets too much credit for the good stuff and too much blame for the bad stuff. We're climbing out of the hole, the employment growth numbers look good as a function of the healing, let's hope for the best.

Okay, now, back to the standard partisan bullshittery.

.

Dubya/GOP had 2% growth with their 'job crteator' policies the first 7 years, NOT including Dubya's trecession.

"It's sad to say, but we really went nowhere for almost ten years, after you extract the boost provided by the housing and mortgage boom," said Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Economy.com, and an informal adviser to McCain's campaign. "It's almost a lost economic decade."

Bush Lead During Weakest Economy in Decades


Dec 2007

The Economic Consequences of Mr. Bush
The next president will have to deal with yet another crippling legacy of George W. Bush: the economy. A Nobel laureate, Joseph E. Stiglitz, sees a generation-long struggle to recoup.

The Economic Consequences of Mr. Bush Vanity Fair

CBO: Bush Tax Cuts Responsible For Almost A Third Of Deficit In Last 10 Years (2001-2010)

We already know what economic policies work best for our country. Clinton knew that we had to cut spending and increase revenues. We had revenues of 20.6% of GDP and a surplus in 2000. Then something terrible happened, the Republicans gained complete control in 2001 and instead of sticking with what was working they decided that their ideology was more important. The debt has gone up $12 trillion since then. As Dubya took US to 15% of GDP revenues AS he expanded spending, 2 unfunded wars and unfunded Medicare expansion




How the Deficit Got This Big

In 2001, President George W. Bush inherited a surplus, with projections by the Congressional Budget Office for ever-increasing surpluses, assuming continuation of the good economy and President Bill Clinton’s policies.

Bush, tax cuts and war spending were the biggest policy drivers of the swing from projected surpluses to deficits from 2002 to 2009.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24sun4.html

 

[Dad2three]

All that chart shows me is a recovery from a recession that is just grinding along...which is exactly what we've gotten from a President who's probably the most clueless Chief Executive when it comes to economics that we've ever had.

Your conclusion assumes a president that got everything he wanted from a Republican party that has been hell bent for the last 6 years in NOT giving him anything. Try again.

I never assumed Obama got what he wanted from the GOP. Let's be brutally honest here, Oro...when Obama first took office he didn't NEED the GOP and made that perfectly clear with the way he governed. When he lost the House in the 2010 midterms...THEN he needed to make deals with the GOP but at that point he'd "poisoned the well" so completely with the way he'd done business the first two years that Republicans LOATHED him! Barack Obama's personality doesn't lend itself to compromise like Bill Clinton's did after HE lost control of Congress and had to deal with Newt Gingrich and the "Contract with America" GOP.

Weird you don't remember the Dems ONLY had a super majority for a total of 24 days WHILE Dubya's/GOP economy was dumping 9%+_

DAY ONE THE GOP WORKED TO MAKE OBAMA A 1 TERMER

Clinton dealt with the GOP? LOL

 

[Dad2three]

How does that have anything to do with families unable to get high paying career jobs, but are stuck in part time employment? College Graduates Are stuck with jobs that only require high school education, and you blame the fact corporations aren't paying enough in taxes. These results I previously stated are proof trickle up doesn't work, the stimulus failed to produce a robust economy, and you don't have the slightest clue about economic issues and job creation.

Wingnut, the stimulus had ONE purpose, to stop US from going into ANOTHER GOP great depression, it worked, though it was too small

Weird, how'd the US do with Dubya's UNFUNDED (cutting spending) tax cuts? Oh right, 8 years later the US had lost over 1,000,000+ PRIVATE sector jobs



Neo-Liberalism/Conservatives is/has destroyed the American Economy in favor of the so called "Job Creator"... In reality are "Job Exporters"...

The only reason the American economy is stalled is because the GOTP kicks the leg from under it, every time the economy begins to recover in the name of cutting the deficit

The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.


"Dynastic wealth, the enemy of a meritocracy, is on the rise. Equality of opportunity has been on the decline. A progressive and meaningful estate tax is needed to curb the movement of a democracy toward plutocracy." Warren Buffett

TARP kept the economy from going into another Great Depression...the Obama Stimulus simply spent nearly a trillion dollars taking care of Obama supporters like Public Sector Unions and "Green Energy" companies while it left the Private Sector twisting in the wind.

And if the stimulus REALLY "worked"...then why did the Obama Administration have to come up with a new measurement "jobs created or saved" instead of using the existing one that measured how many jobs were created? The answer to that is obvious! They spent ALL that money and didn't come close to creating the jobs they said they would. They resorted to the "jobs created or saved" scam to hide how badly the stimulus was at creating jobs.

CBO Director Demolishes GOP's Stimulus Myth

Under questioning from skeptical Republicans, the director of the nonpartisan (and widely respected) Congressional Budget Office was emphatic about the value of the 2009 stimulus. And, he said, the vast majority of economists agree.


In a survey conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, 80 percent of economic experts agreed that, because of the stimulus, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been otherwise.

Based on what data? I love how the left creates this "would have been" data that doesn't exist to try and justify this kind of wasted spending below.

$150 Million - for the SmithsonianMuseum. Are additional rooms really necessary at this time?
$75 Million - for "smoking cessation activities"
$25 million - for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction
$200 Million - to fund the LEASE of alternative energy vehicles for the use on military installations. They are soldiers who march from building to building, and Michelle Obama has also held the need for MORE people to be physically fit.
$88 Million - for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Services. I wouldn't think of renovating my OWN house until I knew I could afford it
$160 Million - for "paid volunteers" ... at the Corporation for National and community Service If they are paid they are not volunteers, they are called employees.
$5.5 Million - for "energy efficiencyinitiatives" at the Department of Veteran Affairs National Cemetery Administration. Electric hearses?? .. or are we talking about electric lawn mowers here?

This is but a few areas of the kind of jobs and "much needed" spending was supposedly necessary to help improve the economy - lol

Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs

It's no surprise that the administration would proclaim its own policies a success. But its verdict is backed by economists at Goldman Sachs, IHS Global Insight, JPMorgan Chase and Macroeconomic Advisers, who say the stimulus boosted gross domestic product by 2.1% to 2.7%.

Economists agree Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs - USATODAY.com

NEXT TALKING POINT? LOL

​

Part time jobs and college grads working high school jobs, doesn't make a strong economy

You seriously arguing the stimulus didn't keep US out ogf ANOTHER GOP great depression? lol


In 1980 the top 1% earned 8.5% of total income. In 2007 they earned 23%.

In 1980 the bottom 90% earned 68% of total income. In 2007 they earned 53%.

Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data Tax Foundation

GOV'T POLICY MATTERS !!!

The Republican Party hasn't had a single idea that benefited the majority of Americans since before Reagan.


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

Again, may I remind you of the facts regarding the current economy AFTER the stimulus, AFTER unemployment extensions, AFTER the trickle up theory.


46% of college grads are underemployed at jobs that don't require a degree.

September employment numbers indicate 7.1 million are involuntarily working part-time for economic reasons (little change from a month ago)

Household income of American families is lower now, adjusted for inflation, than when efforts for a recovery began.


Yes ... that is household income is lower NOW after all the BILLIONS spent on the stimulus and unemployment extensions. People forced to settle with part-time employment when they rather work full-time AFTER the stimulus, 46% of grads are UNDERemployed even AFTER the stimulus.

The results speaks for themselves pretty clear.

Yes, the GOP put US in a WIDE and deep hole. Weird Dubyaa lost 1,000,000+ PRIVATE sector jobs in 8 years, had a 2% growth rate the first seven years, allowed and cheered on the US households to double their debt in the first 7 years, cheered on the Banksters subprime ponzi scheme, took US to Korean war level revenues (15% of GDP) after Clinton got US back up to Carters nearly 21% , gave the 'job creators' a HUGE tax break to create prosperity and jobs. How did that work out?

YES, 'JOB CREATORS' LOWEST SUSTAINED EFFECTIVE TAX BURDEN IN 80+ YEARS ISN'T WORKING TO CREATE GOOD JOBS. Time to go back to the policies that did. HIGH TAXES THAT STIMULATED THE 'JOB CREATORS' TO EXPAND IN THE US, PAY BETTER WAGS AND THEM ACTUALLY GROWING THE ECONOMY versus the disaster capitalism the US has used since Ronnie!

Results? Yes, 10+ million jobs created since Obamacares passed Feb 2010

 

[Dad2three]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed. Both parties share the blame for that.

Shadow banking, overtook the traditional banking sector 2004-2007, they were going bust IF the Gov't didn't step up

The shadow banking system is a term for the collection of non-bank financial intermediaries that provide services similar to traditional commercial banks. Former Federal Reserve Chair Ben Bernanke provided a definition in April 2012: "Shadow banking, as usually defined, comprises a diverse set of institutions and markets that, collectively, carry out traditional banking functions--but do so outside, or in ways only loosely linked to, the traditional system of regulated depository institutions. Examples of important components of the shadow banking system include securitization vehicles, asset-backed commercial paper (ABCP) conduits, money market mutual funds, markets for repurchase agreements (repos), investment banks, and mortgage companies." Shadow banking has grown in importance to rival traditional depository banking and was a primary factor in the subprime mortgage crisis of 2007-2008 and global recession that followed.


Shadow banking system - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



Lehman's demise also made it the largest victim, of the U.S. subprime mortgage-induced financial crisis that swept through global financial markets in 2008. Lehman's collapse was a seminal event that greatly intensified the 2008 crisis and contributed to the erosion of close to $10 trillion in market capitalization from global equity markets in October 2008, the biggest monthly decline on record at the time.

Case Study The Collapse of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Ok, and how has your choice alleviated any of that?

Obama Rewards Wall Street Again Thwarts Reform By Sacking Gensler - Forbes

.

They never predicted that. You're an idiot.

Sure they did, it's right there in the chart. Are you saying the Obama Administration never made the claim I presented?

No, they PREDICTED IT with MANY disclaimers BEFORE the extent of Dubya's great recession was known. ARRA was passed in Feb 2009. The estimates were done end of Dec 2008 and beginning of 2009. The US economy contracted 9%_+ the last quarter, no one saw that coming!

The claim that Obama promised the stimulus would keep the unemployment rate below 8 percent has been a favorite talking point among Republicans....

PolitiFact has examined the statement repeatedly, each time rating it Mostly False.


But contrary to Cantor’s claim, the Romer-Bernstein report did not make promises about the unemployment rate. It made qualified projections.

Page 2 of the report states, "It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program.

"Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."


Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent PolitiFact Virginia

They sold the idiots a plan and spent a considerable amount of resources and focus pushing the chart. They ended up being too clever for their own good, we would have been better off without their interventionalist methods.

Opinion

PLEASE give me ONE policy conservatives/libertarians have EVER been on the correct side of history on? Just one?

How are the states that follow the libertarian bullshit? Kansas or Wisconsin for example? lol

How about nations that tried the conservatives 'austerity'?

You are incorrectly framing the question, for obvious reasons. Politics is not a "we won" situation, that much should be painfully obvious. Politics is the art of pushing an agenda for the long term regardless of which people are in control. The conservative position has been losing the ground game for a long time, so much that the liberal position has exacerbated the pain to justify the existence of the policies. You folks are no longer trying to create prosperity, you're now saying that things are so bad that society needs you to subsidize everyone.

Think about that for a minute, your side is no longer promising nor suggesting prosperity. Your side is pushing dependence and retribution. That's a far cry from the "green economy" from the Hope and Change speeches.

You can look at the planet, see no Conservative or LIbertarian success stories and think the Libertarian and Conservative ideas are failures. I look at the same situation and I see that the planet is not prospering and that there are not any Libertarian or Conservative regimes in any significant positions of power. Plus, I'm not a partisan. I don't think my ideas are so great that they have to be mandatory.

"You are incorrectly framing the question, for obvious reasons. Politics is not a "we won" situation, that much should be painfully obvious. Politics is the art of pushing an agenda for the long term regardless of which people are in control. The conservative position has been losing the ground game for a long time, so much that the liberal position has exacerbated the pain to justify the existence of the policies. You folks are no longer trying to create prosperity, you're now saying that things are so bad that society needs you to subsidize everyone."



"Starving the beast" is a political strategy employed by American conservatives in order to limit government spending by cutting taxes in order to deprive the government of revenue in a deliberate effort to force the federal government to reduce spending.

Before his election as President, then-candidate Ronald Reagan foreshadowed the strategy during the 1980 US Presidential debates, saying "John Anderson tells us that first we've got to reduce spending before we can reduce taxes. Well, if you've got a kid that's extravagant, you can lecture him all you want to about his extravagance. Or you can cut his allowance and achieve the same end much quicker."

The tax cuts and deficit spending of former US President George W. Bush's administration were attempts to "starve the beast." Bush said in 2001 "so we have the tax relief plan [...] that now provides a new kind—a fiscal straightjacket [sic] for Congress. And that's good for the taxpayers, and it's incredibly positive news if you're worried about a federal government that has been growing at a dramatic pace over the past eight years and it has been."

Political activist Grover Norquist authored an oath, the so-called "Taxpayer Protection Pledge," that 279 Senators and Congressman have signed. The oath states the signatories will never vote to raise taxes on anyone under any circumstances. It is viewed by some of the unsigned as a stumbling block to mutual fiscal negotiations to benefit the country

Starve the beast - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


GET HONEST ONE TIME BUBBA!

 

[Oldstyle]

All that chart shows me is a recovery from a recession that is just grinding along...which is exactly what we've gotten from a President who's probably the most clueless Chief Executive when it comes to economics that we've ever had.

Your conclusion assumes a president that got everything he wanted from a Republican party that has been hell bent for the last 6 years in NOT giving him anything. Try again.

I never assumed Obama got what he wanted from the GOP. Let's be brutally honest here, Oro...when Obama first took office he didn't NEED the GOP and made that perfectly clear with the way he governed. When he lost the House in the 2010 midterms...THEN he needed to make deals with the GOP but at that point he'd "poisoned the well" so completely with the way he'd done business the first two years that Republicans LOATHED him! Barack Obama's personality doesn't lend itself to compromise like Bill Clinton's did after HE lost control of Congress and had to deal with Newt Gingrich and the "Contract with America" GOP.

Weird you don't remember the Dems ONLY had a super majority for a total of 24 days WHILE Dubya's/GOP economy was dumping 9%+_

DAY ONE THE GOP WORKED TO MAKE OBAMA A 1 TERMER

Clinton dealt with the GOP? LOL

That's 24 "WORKING DAYS", Dad...with a Super Majority that meant Barack Obama could pass whatever he wanted without a single GOP vote. So what did Barry and the Democrats pass during that time period?

Yes, Bill Clinton worked with the GOP. When he lost big in his first mid-term elections, Clinton pivoted towards the center...sucked it up...and worked with a Newt Gingrich led GOP House to get things done. He did EXACTLY what Barack Obama has refused to do.

 

[Oldstyle]

All that spamming, Dad...and you STILL haven't provided us with what Barack Obama's "plan" is to create jobs and stimulate the economy!

Why don't you admit that you can't give us the "plan" because Barry doesn't have one?

All your bluster...all your spamming of all this nonsense...doesn't change that one simple fact...Barack Obama doesn't HAVE a plan to create jobs and doesn't have a plan to grow the economy!

 

[Oldstyle]

What he DOES have is finger pointing and excuse making...

 

[Dad2three]

All that chart shows me is a recovery from a recession that is just grinding along...which is exactly what we've gotten from a President who's probably the most clueless Chief Executive when it comes to economics that we've ever had.

Your conclusion assumes a president that got everything he wanted from a Republican party that has been hell bent for the last 6 years in NOT giving him anything. Try again.

I never assumed Obama got what he wanted from the GOP. Let's be brutally honest here, Oro...when Obama first took office he didn't NEED the GOP and made that perfectly clear with the way he governed. When he lost the House in the 2010 midterms...THEN he needed to make deals with the GOP but at that point he'd "poisoned the well" so completely with the way he'd done business the first two years that Republicans LOATHED him! Barack Obama's personality doesn't lend itself to compromise like Bill Clinton's did after HE lost control of Congress and had to deal with Newt Gingrich and the "Contract with America" GOP.

Weird you don't remember the Dems ONLY had a super majority for a total of 24 days WHILE Dubya's/GOP economy was dumping 9%+_

DAY ONE THE GOP WORKED TO MAKE OBAMA A 1 TERMER

Clinton dealt with the GOP? LOL

That's 24 "WORKING DAYS", Dad...with a Super Majority that meant Barack Obama could pass whatever he wanted without a single GOP vote. So what did Barry and the Democrats pass during that time period?

Yes, Bill Clinton worked with the GOP. When he lost big in his first mid-term elections, Clinton pivoted towards the center...sucked it up...and worked with a Newt Gingrich led GOP House to get things done. He did EXACTLY what Barack Obama has refused to do.

You mean BESIDES keeping US from falling into ANOTHER GOP great depression? lol

Yes, must've been why the GOP shut down Gov't, TWICE and Clinton had to veto their $700+ billion tax cut after HIS first surplus and then the GOP spent how many tens of millions to impeach Clinton?


Despite you wingnutters claim, Obama HAS been very centrists, it's just the right wingers have went even further right than they did with Clinton

We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional. In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party.

The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.

When one party moves this far from the mainstream, it makes it nearly impossible for the political system to deal constructively with the country’s challenges.


Let s just say it The Republicans are the problem. - The Washington Post

 

[Dad2three]

All that spamming, Dad...and you STILL haven't provided us with what Barack Obama's "plan" is to create jobs and stimulate the economy!

Why don't you admit that you can't give us the "plan" because Barry doesn't have one?

All your bluster...all your spamming of all this nonsense...doesn't change that one simple fact...Barack Obama doesn't HAVE a plan to create jobs and doesn't have a plan to grow the economy!

Which plan did Dubya use to lose over 1+ million PRIVATE sector jobs in 8 years while doubling the debt and creating the circumstances Obama inherited? Let's go the opposite of that Bubba!

I know, allowing the PRIVATE markets to create 10+ million jobs since Obamacares passed, cutting Dubya's deficit in half, stopping the plunging economy Dubya left US, etc is a horrible job by Obama

 

[Oldstyle]

You can't come up with Obama's plan...can you? All this bluster about W...and how it's the GOP that is to blame...but you don't have the faintest idea what Barack Obama's plan is to create jobs and stimulate the economy!

You know WHY that is, Dad? It's because he doesn't have one...something you'd know if you weren't so focused on the guy who left office over six years ago!

 

[Oldstyle]

The truth is...the American economy itself was far more responsible for creating those jobs than anything Barack Obama did! A huge percentage of those jobs were created in Republican controlled States whose economic policies led to job creation DESPITE what Barry, Harry and Nancy were trying to do in Washington!