Another family friendly pit bull story

[Anguille]

Okay, how's about middle eastern and african?

Oh shit......now they're gonna start calling me a racist liberal.

What about Middle Eastern and African? Those are still regional designations.
The minute differences in DNA between the so-called races of man is are even less significant that the differences between breeds of dogs.

 

[ABikerSailor]

It makes him bisexual.
Dogs have existed for eons. Dog breeding is only a recent development in history. Why do you even think dog breeders know enough about DNA to be able to breed a dog specifically for violent behavior or that a significant number of pit bulls are actually successfully bred for that type of behavior?

No Anquille, dog breeding is NOT a recent development. Check the North American Indians for that one. It's not so much that they know about DNA, but, just like gardeners who cross-pollinate, they don't know much about the plant DNA, they just look for the results. Same with the dog breeders. Another place you may wish to check on for dog breeding not being a recent invention is ancient China. Ever heard of a Shar-Pei? They're the wrinkled looking dogs that look like they're in skin 2 sizes too big for them. They were originally bred as war dogs.

 

[Anguille]

No Angi, I'm not being bamboozled by a local politician.

Think of it this way, you said it yourself.......

If dogs are interbred, they end up becoming a medium sized yellow dog. However.....if they still look like a pit, they still have the agressiveness. The yellow ones won't.

You want to back up that conjecture with some scientific evidence? How is physical appearance linked to behavior?

Are all dark skinned people more violent than fair skinned people?

 

[del]

Sorry, I don't buy it. You can't condition someone to LIKE something, which is what you claimed. You could feed me peas on a daily basis and you might eventually get me to eat them, but you'll never get me to LIKE them.

This is silly, especially coming from someone who is convinced that violent video games do not cause people to commit violent acts.

why do you hate legumes?

 

[ABikerSailor]

First, dogs are NOT people, so comparing the two is kinda dense.

Second, if you mix breeds, they then end up looking different than the separate breeds, as well as start to act differently.

Matter of fact, you can see this in the animal kingdom as natural selection. Breeding is an artificial form of selection.

 

[Anguille]

No Anquille, dog breeding is NOT a recent development. Check the North American Indians for that one. It's not so much that they know about DNA, but, just like gardeners who cross-pollinate, they don't know much about the plant DNA, they just look for the results. Same with the dog breeders. Another place you may wish to check on for dog breeding not being a recent invention is ancient China. Ever heard of a Shar-Pei? They're the wrinkled looking dogs that look like they're in skin 2 sizes too big for them. They were originally bred as war dogs.

Nonetheless, dogs have still existed far far longer than dog breeding has. Also there is no proof that dog breeds did not cross breed with other breeds till the very recent establishment of dog fancier clubs.

Interesting story about Shar Peis. My mother's neighbor recently adopted a dog from the shelter, originally from Puerto Rico and was curious to know what breeds it was decended from so she had it's DNA analyzed. It's medium sized slender dog, all black with short straight hair, ears that stand up and a medium long snout. It looks just like a combo of two of the three breeds the test indicated made up it's parentage, black Lab and German shepherd. The other breed was Shar Pei. There is nothing at all in it's looks to indicate Shar Pei. It's not very warlike either.

 

[Ravi]

It makes him bisexual.
Dogs have existed for eons. Dog breeding is only a recent development in history. Why do you even think dog breeders know enough about DNA to be able to breed a dog specifically for violent behavior or that a significant number of pit bulls are actually successfully bred for that type of behavior?

No it doesn't. It makes him someone pretending something he is not.

And dog breeding isn't all that recent. Do a little reading, girlfriend!

 

[Ravi]

why do you hate legumes?

Their influence has caused millions to unbiasedly accept surrendering to the Vietnamese, silly.




heh, or is that without bias? Spellchecker once again on the fritz, not my fault, lol!

 

[Anguille]

First, dogs are NOT people, so comparing the two is kinda dense.

Second, if you mix breeds, they then end up looking different than the separate breeds, as well as start to act differently.

Matter of fact, you can see this in the animal kingdom as natural selection. Breeding is an artificial form of selection.

Dogs and humans are mammals. Natural selection made aggressive and anti social behavior undesirable traits in social animals such as dog are. Natural selection determined the characteristics of the canine species for millions of years, long before humans even had the slightest clue as to how babies were made.

I'm surprised that someone who has owned the dogs you say you've own would still think genetics had such a strong factor in animal behavior, over shadowing the influence of training and care.

 

[del]

Their influence has caused millions to unbiasedly accept surrendering to the Vietnamese, silly.




heh, or is that without bias? Spellchecker once again on the fritz, not my fault, lol!

damn you're good.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Nonetheless, dogs have still existed far far longer than dog breeding has. Also there is no proof that dog breeds did not cross breed with other breeds till the very recent establishment of dog fancier clubs.

Interesting story about Shar Peis. My mother's neighbor recently adopted a dog from the shelter, originally from Puerto Rico and was curious to know what breeds it was decended from so she had it's DNA analyzed. It's medium sized slender dog, all black with short straight hair, ears that stand up and a medium long snout. It looks just like a combo of two of the three breeds the test indicated made up it's parentage, black Lab and German shepherd. The other breed was Shar Pei. There is nothing at all in it's looks to indicate Shar Pei. It's not very warlike either.

You just proved my point about the dogs looks and temperament. It DOESN'T look like a Shar Pei, nor does it have the same aggressiveness. That is because the traits of the Shar Pei have been pretty much bred out.

 

[Anguille]

No it doesn't. It makes him someone pretending something he is not.

And dog breeding isn't all that recent. Do a little reading, girlfriend!

Maybe you don't believe bisexuals exist? How can you truely know what a person's sexuality really is and if all human sexuality can be neatly organised into two or even three catagories? We can all only speak for ourselves.

Whether you and I agree or not if the length of time since dog breeding has been going on versus natural selection is enough to create a separate breed of dog no longer carrying the social instincts typical of dogs or is or is not long enough, neither one of us is a genetic or behavioral scientist. At least I know I'm not.

I do know that animal professionals and experts overwhelmingly agree that breed specific laws are worthless in the effort to reduce injury and death due to dog attacks.

That's evidence enough for me.

 

[Anguille]

You just proved my point about the dogs looks and temperament. It DOESN'T look like a Shar Pei, nor does it have the same aggressiveness. That is because the traits of the Shar Pei have been pretty much bred out.

That doesn't prove your point in the least. Shar peis are no more dangerous than pit pulls, pugs and poodles.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Maybe you don't believe bisexuals exist? How can you truely know what a person's sexuality really is and if all human sexuality can be neatly organised into two or even three catagories? We can all only speak for ourselves.

Whether you and I agree or not if the length of time since dog breeding has been going on versus natural selection is enough to create a separate breed of dog no longer carrying the social instincts typical of dogs or is or is not long enough, neither one of us is a genetic or behavioral scientist. At least I know I'm not.

I do know that animal professionals and experts overwhelmingly agree that breed specific laws are worthless in the effort to reduce injury and death due to dog attacks.

That's evidence enough for me.

Ya know housetroll, you've just admitted that all you're going on is what you've heard. I'd also be willing to bet that your "experts" are those that think like you do also.

BTW.....I do know a genetic and behavioral scientist.

 

[Ravi]

Maybe you don't believe bisexuals exist? How can you truely know what a person's sexuality really is and if all human sexuality can be neatly organised into two or even three catagories? We can all only speak for ourselves.

Whether you and I agree or not if the length of time since dog breeding has been going on versus natural selection is enough to create a separate breed of dog no longer carrying the social instincts typical of dogs or is or is not long enough, neither one of us is a genetic or behavioral scientist. At least I know I'm not.

I do know that animal professionals and experts overwhelmingly agree that breed specific laws are worthless in the effort to reduce injury and death due to dog attacks.

That's evidence enough for me.

Where did I say bisexuals don't exist? Oh, right, I didn't. I said you can condition someone to accept doing something but you can't make them like it.

The rest of what you posted is nothing more than .

No offense, and I don't wish to squeel on you, but your historical defense of pit bulls is legendary and misguided.

 

[ABikerSailor]

That doesn't prove your point in the least. Shar peis are no more dangerous than pit pulls, pugs and poodles.

Really? Here's what wiki says about the shar-pei's temperament.......

Temperament

The Shar Pei is often suspicious of strangers, which pertains to their origin as a guard dog. In general the breed has proved itself to be a loving, devoted family dog. The Shar Pei are also very independent and reserved breeds. Nevertheless, the Shar Pei is extremely devoted, loyal and affectionate to its family, and is amenable to accepting strangers given time and proper introduction at a young age. If poorly socialized or trained, it can become especially territorial and aggressive. Even friendly and well-socialized individuals will retain the breed's watch dog proclivities (such as barking at strangers). It is a largely silent breed, barking only when. playing or when worried. The Shar Pei was originally bred as palace guards in China. While this breed is adorable it is also very protective of its home and family, a powerful dog that is willing to guard its family members.

The breed is amenable to training, but can get bored from repetition. Overall, the Shar Pei is a dog that is loyal and loving to its family while being very protective & independent.

 

[Ninja]

I wish we could ban animal bigots and haters. They scare me!

The animal bigots watch too much TV.

First of all, "pit bull" refers to multiple, different breeds depending on who you're talking to.

I've had this discussion so many times on the interwebz. I remember one time some pit banner posted a bunch of articles about supposed pit attacks. I started reading them and they dealt with breeds like Mastiffs, Dobies, etc.

Basically, the idiot pit haters lump in any large dog into this sensationalistic "pit bull" category the media's told them they're supposed to be scared of.

Second, all of the so-called "pit bull" breeds combined account for roughly as many bites as Rottweilers (If any of you dog banners would like me to hand you your ass on a silver platter, I'm more than willing to provide a link).

Third, I'd feel much more comfortable leaving a small child around any of the so-called "pit bull" breeds than rotties, German Shepherds, Huskies, etc.

Having put in some extensive volunteer time at a local shelter and having been bitten multiple times (I'm a big guy so I get stuck with the psycho dogs) I can say that the worst bite I've ever received was from a toy poodle. No lie. The infection was awful.

I don't dislike any breed and I think all the dog banners are idiots but anyone who's worked with dogs will agree that German Shepherds and Rotties tend to be the worst as far as human aggression goes.

Personally I'm a Dachshund and JRT man myself. I like their feistiness, playfulness and take no bullshit from anyone attitude.

But all dogs are great and someday if I have enough land I'd love to rescue some so-called "pit bulls." Preferably some Staffies, maybe a Presa Canario or two, and a Dogo Argentino.

For those of you who aren't total retards: http://www.badrap.org/rescue/

That's the shelter that took in Vick the Prick's dogs and has found most of them happy, loving homes.

 

[ABikerSailor]

There were also quite a few that had to be destroyed. Not all of the dogs were placed in homes.

 

[Anguille]

Okay, I've now spent most of my evening defending pit bulls against the violent and aggressive behavior typical of the pit bull hating breed of human moron.
I'm feeling a bit like a worn out chew toy.
Still, it never fails to amaze me how some people who would be offended to be called racist have no problem applying the principals of racism to single out breeds of dogs as their scapegoat. Some of these same people decry the fear mongering that is part of Bush & Co's standard practice in gathering support for the war in Iraq yet they are gullible enough to be sucked into the same fear mongering concerning dog breeds, local politicians, the media and animal haters.

I see it all the time. People freezing up and acting like wild tigers have escaped from the zoo whenever they see a pit bull. Yet some of those same people don't even bother to check with the owner before getting all kissy face with golden retrievers they've never even seen before.
I keep hearing stories about how pit bulls are mean and dangerous and they should all be put to sleep and the owners sent to jail but in all my experiences with pit bulls, and there are many in my neighborhood, I've never ever seen one act any differently than any other breed as far as aggression is concerned. I've cared for one belonging to a friend and I find them to be very affectionate and endearing dogs, many of them seemingly grateful to have been adopted from the shelter where more and more pit bulls in my city are ending up since anti pit bull legislation was passed and insurance companies saw the trend as opportunity for exploitation when raising residential property premiums.

I recently had another pit bull experience that caused me to be even more disgusted with the way people have such a tendency to scapegoat and look for enemies where there are none. I was walking my dog and a Chihuahua one evening last spring and as I rounded the corner into the business district I heard a dog barking and then saw the dog, a pit bull, chained to a sign post and barking in the direction of the door to a convenience store. Next to the door were three people plastered to the wall wide-eyed in fear and standing nearby was a police officer on his phone calling for the dog officer to come remove a dangerous dog. It was obvious to me why the dog was barking. His owner was in the store. The dog was chained with chain the thickness of about 2 inches and the people who wanted to pass by him had about 3 feet in which to get by safely. Clearly they were ignorant about dogs or had some kind of phobia. The dog was not even aware that they were there. He was focused on barking for his owner. As I came closer the pit bull saw my dogs and was distracted, stopped barking and started indicating with friendly body language that he was safe with my dogs. They began sniffing each other and wagging their tales as dogs do. I turned to the cop who was off the phone by now and asked him why he thought the dog was dangerous, had he bitten anyone? The cop said. "No, but they are all dangerous, those kinds of dogs ." To which I said "Innocent till proven guilty". Meanwhile the Chihuahua began to yap furiously at the cop though he paid her no attention. I told the cop I saw no indication the dog was dangerous given that he was behaving fine with my dogs and not barking at me. I said, "This dog is doing exactly what my dog does when I tie her up outside this store and go inside. He's barking for his owner. The only difference here is that my dog is cute and so people stop and pet her in sympathy and no one has a problem but because this dog looks like what the media portrays as an evil murderous breed of dog, suddenly it's a dangerous dog that need to be taken to the pound. That makes no sense!". The cop, who was enjoying his performance as a hero got pissed at me and wanted to know why I was butting in if it wasn't my dog. The Chihuahua got even more enraged and was struggling harder to get out of my arms in attempt to rip the officer's jugular vein into shreds so I backed off with the retort that he was doing a wonderful thing, traumatizing a poor scared dog even further by having it carted off to the pound. The owner came out at that point with his gallon of milk and the officer demanded his identification which he did not have on him since he had just come from around the corner. He said he could go get get it in 5 seconds and went, leaving the dog still chained to the signpost because the cop would not let him take it with him. I took my dogs home and came back to see what I could do to prevent anything bad from happening.
The owner had returned when I got back and was pleading with the cop not to take his dog. I asked the owner if the dog was good with strangers and he said yes so I let the dog sniff my hand and petted him when it was clear he trusted me. He was so sweet he even licked my face which had some effect on the cop. The dog officer arrived and the cop began telling him that the dog had caused a disturbance and needed to be taken away. I told the dog officer that I was a witness and saw nothing for concern in the dog's behavior, nothing to indicate that this dog was potentially dangerous to people or to other dogs. To the cop's credit he then announced that he would forget everything if the owner promised never to leave his dog outside again while he went in the store. The dog officer went along with it and said he would ignore the fact that the dog was not wearing a muzzle, as the latest anti-pit pull ordinance now requires. But he said he would still have to take the dog because it had no tags and no proof of a rabies vaccination. The owner explained they had fallen off and he had papers at home to prove the dog was licensed and vaccinated. So the dog officer gave him the address of the city shelter where he could come with the documentation to claim his dog with no fine. The owner, "No problem, I'll be there in 15 minutes. I know exactly where the shelter is because that is where the dog got all his shots when I adopted him 6 months ago". How ironic! A dog that the shelter had deemed adoptable and had okayed for adoption was almost removed from his new owner simply because of his appearance. So the owner led the dog to the van and told him he'd come get him in 15 minutes then turned to me to thank me for coming back to be a witness and then he burst into tears. I nearly cried myself to think that this lovable dog was almost separated from his kind owner all because some fools jumped to the wrong conclusion based on the animals looks. It still makes me sick to think about it. Thank dog perceptions are changing as more and more people get to know pit bulls and feel compassion for them rather than revulsion.

 

[Anguille]

Ya know housetroll, you've just admitted that all you're going on is what you've heard. I'd also be willing to bet that your "experts" are those that think like you do also.

BTW.....I do know a genetic and behavioral scientist.

Read in an earlier post of mine just who those experts are. Talk to your learned friend. Maybe your eyes will be opened.