Anarchy

[gipper]

Anarchy is synonymous with chaos. Always has been, always will be.

For the purposes of the thread, we're using the definition offered in the OP.

For the purposes of the thread, I used the definition offered by the OP.

No, you redefined it as "synonymous with chaos".

yes I did....because anarchy is synonymous with chaos...at least when you have more than 20 or 30 people.

You have it backwards. A state run society devolves into chaos. We see it happening right now. History clearly tells us state run societies are dangerous and deadly.

People want to believe the state provides structure and safety, when the opposite is clearly true.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

You have it backwards. A state run society devolves into chaos. We see it happening right now. History clearly tells us state run societies are dangerous and deadly.

People want to believe the state provides structure and safety, when the opposite is clearly true.

Define "state"

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

You have it backwards. A state run society devolves into chaos. We see it happening right now. History clearly tells us state run societies are dangerous and deadly.

People want to believe the state provides structure and safety, when the opposite is clearly true.

Here's my definition: a state is any politically organized community living under a single system of government.

There will ALWAYS be a "state."

 

[dblack]

We're talking about doing without coercive state government, not all means of organizing society.

Define a "coercive state government."

A body that claims exclusive authority over a region or people and employs violence to achieve its ends.

Even the most loosely organized societies have rules they enforce on each other (coercion). They don't tolerate unjust killing of each other.

The overwhelming majority of the rules we follow are enforced without coercion. Again, coercion is the initiation of violence. Anarchists aren't pacifists and will fight to defend themselves.

 

[dblack]

Here's my definition: a state is any politically organized community living under a single system of government.

There will ALWAYS be a "state."

As long as a critical mass of people adhere to that claim, it's probably true. When they don't ...

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

A body that claims exclusive authority over a region or people and employs violence to achieve its ends.

So, I move into the wilderness with my family outside of any political organization. My son threatens to kill my daughter. I threaten to kill my son if he tries.

I am a state.

 

[Crixus]

Defined: a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.

I know the statists don't think it possible or workable. However, a stateless society is conceivable and far better than the state run society we have today.

Nothing has caused more death, suffering, and destruction than the state throughout human history. So, logically, why continue something so heinous?

There is NOTHING to fear from a stateless society. There is much to fear from a state run society.



...okay...now you can call me CRAZY!

PS. Anarchy is not synonymous with chaos.

Yeah, but anarchist get queasy about the survival of the fittest part. Those who call for anarchy now would not survive the first year if it were the new political dogma. Anarchy is nothing but a teenagers wet dream after listening to black flag.

 

[gipper]

With the state, we have disorder, destruction, injustice, and death ON A MASSIVE SCALE. Anarchy will NOT eliminate these wrongs, but it prevents it from attaining control on a massive scale, that we now suffer under today.

Statist government has been likened to fire and rightfully so...."Fire has proven to be a magnificent aid to human beings, but a fire that cannot be contained portends our utter destruction, and the state is precisely such a fire."
Robert Higgs

As such, anyone who thinks our government today is limited and controlled, is fooling themselves. It is a raging fire out of control capable of consuming everything.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Government is force. Nothing more. A state is simply the manner in which that force is applied.

You can never have no state or no force.

 

[dblack]

Anarchy is nothing but a teenagers wet dream after listening to black flag.

That's a convenient stereotype if you simply wish to dismiss the ideas, but there's a lot more to it than that.

 

[keepitreal]

Nothing has caused more death, suffering, and destruction than the state throughout human history. So, logically, why continue something so heinous?

There is NOTHING to fear from a stateless society.
There is much to fear from a state run society.

Whether a stateless society or state run society,
both involve humans... and that's the problem

Our system of government is not the problem,
the people within our system of government, are the problem.
And, really, they are only part of the problem....
We the people, collectively, are the biggest problem,
for not holding these politicians accountable!

 

[dblack]

Government is force. Nothing more. A state is simply the manner in which that force is applied.

You can never have no state or no force.

Those are specious definitions. Certainly not the ones I'm using.

 

[dblack]

A body that claims exclusive authority over a region or people and employs violence to achieve its ends.

So, I move into the wilderness with my family outside of any political organization. My son threatens to kill my daughter. I threaten to kill my son if he tries.

I am a state.

I am the walrus. Delusions all around.

 

[fncceo]

There is NOTHING to fear from a stateless

Well, you SAY that.

But a society that can't protect property and persons is inherently more dangerous.

 

[gipper]

Defined: a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.

I know the statists don't think it possible or workable. However, a stateless society is conceivable and far better than the state run society we have today.

Nothing has caused more death, suffering, and destruction than the state throughout human history. So, logically, why continue something so heinous?

There is NOTHING to fear from a stateless society. There is much to fear from a state run society.



...okay...now you can call me CRAZY!

PS. Anarchy is not synonymous with chaos.

Yeah, but anarchist get queasy about the survival of the fittest part. Those who call for anarchy now would not survive the first year if it were the new political dogma. Anarchy is nothing but a teenagers wet dream after listening to black flag.

Anarchy will not eliminate problems. Do you think the State does? If so, read the following....

R. J. Rummel’s latest estimate of twentieth-century democide stands at 262 million persons; the details are available at his Web site. Plenty of evidence exhibits state-ridden societies boiling with disorder. In the United States, for example, a country brimming with official “protectors” of every imaginable stripe, the populace suffered in 2004, according to figures the government itself endorses, approximately 16,000 murders, 95,000 forcible rapes, 401,000 robberies, 855,000 aggravated assaults, 2,143,000 burglaries, 6,948,000 larcenies and thefts, and 1,237,000 motor vehicle thefts (U.S. Census Bureau 2007, 191). The governments of the United States have taken the people’s liberties—if you don’t think so, you need to spend more time reading U.S. Statutes at Large and the Code of Federal Regulations, not to mention your state and local laws and ordinances—but where’s the protective quid pro quo? They broke the egg of our liberties, without a doubt, but where’s the bloody omelet of personal protection and social order? Robert Higgs

 

[occupied]

Anarchy always breaks down to chaos because humans are hardwired for hierarchy. When shit hits the fan in the absence of authority people will demand someone take charge and lead. The hard fact is that people will gladly forfeit responsibility for themselves to the first overconfident megalomaniac that comes along.

 

[dblack]

But a society that can't protect property and persons is inherently more dangerous.

That get's to the heart of it: the assumption the compulsive state government is the only way to protect people and property. That's what anarchists are challenging.

 

[NightFox]

A body that claims exclusive authority over a region or people and employs violence to achieve its ends.

So, I move into the wilderness with my family outside of any political organization. My son threatens to kill my daughter. I threaten to kill my son if he tries.

I am a state.

Naw, if you were the state you'd confiscate half of your daughters production and half of your sons production and threaten to kill them both if they didn't pay.

Significant difference between your scenario and what is found in the nation state model, the nation state model has a professional political class that exists solely to exact tribute from the non-political classes for the privilege of ruling over them. Basically silver tongued tax farmers in fancy clothes that are slick enough to convince the masses that they can't survive without their "services", unfortunately due to the inherent flaws in human nature, ignorance and apathy the masses keep proving them right.

IMHO Anarchy can work, it just can't work at scale without a significant re-engineering of human nature.

 

[TNHarley]

Defined: a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.

I know the statists don't think it possible or workable. However, a stateless society is conceivable and far better than the state run society we have today.

Nothing has caused more death, suffering, and destruction than the state throughout human history. So, logically, why continue something so heinous?

There is NOTHING to fear from a stateless society. There is much to fear from a state run society.



...okay...now you can call me CRAZY!

PS. Anarchy is not synonymous with chaos.

I think if our govt was as small as it WAS SUPPOSED TO BE we probably wouldnt even be complaining about it.
I have always felt like SOMEONE would try to take control. Most humans REQUIRE someone to tell them what to do. That could cause ALOT of problems.
I dont wish for anarchy. I dont wish for bloated govt. I wish for our country to be run the way it was supposed to be.

 

[gipper]

Here's my definition: a state is any politically organized community living under a single system of government.

There will ALWAYS be a "state."

As long as a critical mass of people adhere to that claim, it's probably true. When they don't ...

We must remember we have all been indoctrinated to think we need the State. If it was possible to control the state, like controlling a fire, then good things can be attained. The problem arises when the State becomes uncontrolled. I don't believe anyone can make the case that the government of the USA, is controlled by the people.