An Energy Question?

[flacaltenn]

PolarBear --- You've probably saved some lives today from folks who would heed Rock"s advice about DIY Power generation.. I'd rep ya if I could..

While you're at it -- (i'm tired of dealing with the used solar salesman) -- could you explain to him how his plan to put up a couple KWatts of solar to charge your electric vehicle just doesn't comply with the manufacturers' warning to have a COMPETENTLY installed and dedication 230V, 40A service to run the Nissan Leaf charger??? (or you could wait 20 hours (3 solar days) and charge it from 110V)

I'd like to see that 20KW arrray on HIS roof --- wouldn't you?

Any minute now --- watch --- the guy is gonna show up and accuse me of not knowing what "grid-tied" means.. To him grid-tied means --- it's somebody ELSE'S problem where the energy comes from AT NIGHT when he's charging his EV...

Dumb fuck still doesn't understand grid parrallel. A real engineer

AND THERE IT IS !!!!!! SEE, I predicted that...

 

[flacaltenn]

My energy costs run at about US$40/month including home and transport.

Who is daft here?

fred:

not being judgemental here,, but my family and I LIKE to travel together in something larger than a scooter and I run a home office with 2200 sq ft of complex electronics equipment. I'd say that my life is completely blissful, I'm glad you're happy with yours.

I'm happy for you..

I'm sexually aroused by the thought of 2,200 sq ft of complex electronics.
I have a small 'cool'lection of electronics as well but not that complex.
All, just in case you were wondering, are low energy devices.

What do you use that lot for?

As an "extremist Muslim" getting aroused by lab equipment must put you on some very shaky moral ground -- No??

I use that lot to support a couple world-wide product consulting groups I run in order to my bills. And my penchant for extensive dilly-daddling on USMB..

But no worries -- most of my designs are very low power.. That makes me eligible for MASSIVE govt subsidies..

 

[Indofred]

fred:

not being judgemental here,, but my family and I LIKE to travel together in something larger than a scooter and I run a home office with 2200 sq ft of complex electronics equipment. I'd say that my life is completely blissful, I'm glad you're happy with yours.

I'm happy for you..

I'm sexually aroused by the thought of 2,200 sq ft of complex electronics.
I have a small 'cool'lection of electronics as well but not that complex.
All, just in case you were wondering, are low energy devices.

What do you use that lot for?

As an "extremist Muslim" getting aroused by lab equipment must put you on some very shaky moral ground -- No??

I use that lot to support a couple world-wide product consulting groups I run in order to my bills. And my penchant for extensive dilly-daddling on USMB..

But no worries -- most of my designs are very low power.. That makes me eligible for MASSIVE govt subsidies..

I'm getting a chubby at the thought of your electronics.

I play a little with A/V stuff.
I have a home cinema that can be carried in a medium size camera bag but will put a 2m wide 16:9 picture on the wall in a reasonably dark room and play a movie from internal memory.

I'm restarting my collection of QRP amateur radio gear as I'm about to renew my old licence.
So far, just an all band RX (AM, FM, WFM) and a low power 2m rig.
A reasonable antenna in this location (Say, a co-linear) should give me a non lift condition radius of 20 miles or so except for North where I have a bad take of.
More will come.
A low power 10, 15, 20 and 40 rig with a half size G5RV will do nicely.

 

[California Girl]

Oh one more than too, if you have not guessed, I'm sort of the ALL in type as long as it benefits the Good Ol USA and our people!!.

The problem, as I see, it is that the 'green' agenda has been hijacked by very left wing politics as a means to an end. Do they care about green principles? No, but they see it as an opportunity to grab power... political power.

Conservatives should be supporting alternative energy technologies. I know I do. I'm all for an 'all of the above' approach. But we need to take those policies away from the socialist politics and mainstream them into conservatism too.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh one more than too, if you have not guessed, I'm sort of the ALL in type as long as it benefits the Good Ol USA and our people!!.

The problem, as I see, it is that the 'green' agenda has been hijacked by very left wing politics as a means to an end. Do they care about green principles? No, but they see it as an opportunity to grab power... political power.

Conservatives should be supporting alternative energy technologies. I know I do. I'm all for an 'all of the above' approach. But we need to take those policies away from the socialist politics and mainstream them into conservatism too.

Unfortunetly, the 'Conservatives' have been fighting the idea of alternative energies tooth and nail. Anything that does not burn fossil fuels or enrich a very large corperation is an anthema to them. And the very idea of a homeowner being both a consumer and producer of power absolutely turns them livid.

 

[editec]

WE ought to be helping homeowners take advantage of wind and solar (and conversion to natural gas) such that we can all lessen this nation's dependence on foreigh oil.

Low cost loans, and outright grants to those who cannot afford these conversions would be an excellent policy to advance.

But such a policy dilutes the energy giants CONTROL over national energy production, so don't expect this kind of policy to happen in this nation anytime soon.

 

[California Girl]

Oh one more than too, if you have not guessed, I'm sort of the ALL in type as long as it benefits the Good Ol USA and our people!!.

The problem, as I see, it is that the 'green' agenda has been hijacked by very left wing politics as a means to an end. Do they care about green principles? No, but they see it as an opportunity to grab power... political power.

Conservatives should be supporting alternative energy technologies. I know I do. I'm all for an 'all of the above' approach. But we need to take those policies away from the socialist politics and mainstream them into conservatism too.

Unfortunetly, the 'Conservatives' have been fighting the idea of alternative energies tooth and nail. Anything that does not burn fossil fuels or enrich a very large corperation is an anthema to them. And the very idea of a homeowner being both a consumer and producer of power absolutely turns them livid.

No one fights the idea of alternative energies. We do, however, object to the political agenda that has hijacked alternative energies. Hence the term 'watermelon men' when applied to people like Van Jones. Get your fucking politics out of alternative energies. That is, if you care about those energies. But you don't. You are just another 'watermelon'.

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL. Every time someone posts how individuals can save money for themselves and their families by using small scale solar or wind, there are a half dozen posts stating that it cannot work, and is morally wrong in some manner. Or someone like you flapping yap about 'watermelon' politics.

Just look at the posts denigrating the LEDs, EVs, and any other useful idea that would save the individual money, and lead to more independence for the average homeowner. It is not liberals doing their best to keep the homeowner on the tits of the large energy corperations.

 

[Bfgrn]

While the debate rages on both sides about such things as wind,solar, nuclear, nat-gas, oil, and a whole host of other energy sources, it leads me to ask a question. At what point does this debate become harmful to this nation? let me explain, by picking and choosing what technology is good and what is bad are we not then putting our feet at the throat of American innovation and as a by-product of that American Jobs ?

Take the Chevy Volt for instance, while not everyone's cup of tea, and perhaps a little pricey amongst other things, I'm frankly stunned that Americans especially in todays economy and todays global atmosphere that some would be so against this car just on the off chance it is associated with a political figure they dont happen to like.

The same is true for domestic oil and gas production and solar, and wind, if we as a nation intend to stay at or near the top then we have to have the energy sources to do so. To produce, explore, and make the products needed for this here in this nation can serve only one purpose, it makes this nation stronger and less dependant on nations that do not have our best interests at heart.

While it's true that some of these new technologies might take time and even some might fail before it becomes a part of our daily lives , that is the cost we pay to take that path and realize the benefits of those technologies. Take for instance the auto industry, at it's inception there were over a 100 different companies producing cars in this nation, and over the years as the technology grew , companies came and went. In short no matter what the technology, if we STOP innovation then we choose long road to decline.

Great post Navy1960 (your screen name always makes me recall Joe Bellino)

America is in a war. I'm not talking about Afghanistan or Iraq. I'm talking about a war most Americans don't even know we are in, or know that America is losing badly. We are having our heads handed to us while we argue over climate change.

Green China? You'd better believe it

A recent report by the Pew Charitable Trusts shows that China was the world’s number one investor in green energy in 2010.

With a total investment of $54.4 billion, China was well ahead of second-ranked Germany ($41.2 billion) and the US in third place with $34 billion invested, not to mention Australia with $3.3 billion and ranked 12th.


The New Chinese War for Energy

“We’re fighting our own war against terrorism. They’re fighting a war to accumulate enough resources so that they can live through the next century with a new kind of energy system,” reveals Stephen Leeb, author of Red Alert: How China’s Growing Prosperity Threatens the American Way of Life. In this episode of Radio Free Dylan, Stephen describes the ever-growing political and economic power of China, and how their wind, solar and renewable energy development is leaving other countries – especially the United States — in the dust.

“China is spending all the money they possibly can to create and better those particular industries and they’re creating a lot of jobs in the process… The two critical renewable alternative energy industries on this planet are wind and solar and both of them, China has a hammerlock,” says Stephen. “They’re in a war to acquire resources, not just for the sake of depriving the rest of the world of these resources, but to have the resources that they need to build out a new energy infrastructure.”

The United States, he says, will be left playing catch up unless we make a dramatic push for redesigning our national energy infrastructure, affecting not only how we power our country, but our financial and economic future as well.

“We spend a lot of time talking about how we can reduce debt in this country and I think that that’s a very good discussion. But at the end of the Second World War, we had government debt as a percent of GDP was greater than it is today, but what’s the difference? The difference was that at the end of the Second World War, perhaps inadvertently, we had created, in order to win that war, we had created an infrastructure that allowed the United States a generation of great economic growth,” says Stephen.

In terms of installed capacity, China’s wind power sector alone doubled every year between 2005 and 2009. According to the latest statistics from the Global Wind Energy Council (GWEC), China added 18.9 GW of new wind power capacity in 2010, thus overtaking the US with the most installed wind power capacity in the world.

China’s parliament, the National People’s Congress (NPC), recently considered a 'New Energy Industry Development Strategy’ which is to be adopted as a major policy document by the State Council (some changes are expected due to the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster).

According to this proposed development strategy, during 2011-2020, China will invest about $800 billion in seven green energy areas, namely, wind, solar, nuclear, bio-energy, hydro, coal cleaning and smart power grid.

 

[Indofred]

There is something else I haven't noticed a mention of here.
Dependency on oil means dependency on oil rich nations.
Most of those are less than friendly to the US so have to be bought off.

 

[Bfgrn]

There is something else I haven't noticed a mention of here.
Dependency on oil means dependency on oil rich nations.
Most of those are less than friendly to the US so have to be bought off.

Meet your daddies...

 

[Navy1960]

While the debate rages on both sides about such things as wind,solar, nuclear, nat-gas, oil, and a whole host of other energy sources, it leads me to ask a question. At what point does this debate become harmful to this nation? let me explain, by picking and choosing what technology is good and what is bad are we not then putting our feet at the throat of American innovation and as a by-product of that American Jobs ?

Take the Chevy Volt for instance, while not everyone's cup of tea, and perhaps a little pricey amongst other things, I'm frankly stunned that Americans especially in todays economy and todays global atmosphere that some would be so against this car just on the off chance it is associated with a political figure they dont happen to like.

The same is true for domestic oil and gas production and solar, and wind, if we as a nation intend to stay at or near the top then we have to have the energy sources to do so. To produce, explore, and make the products needed for this here in this nation can serve only one purpose, it makes this nation stronger and less dependant on nations that do not have our best interests at heart.

While it's true that some of these new technologies might take time and even some might fail before it becomes a part of our daily lives , that is the cost we pay to take that path and realize the benefits of those technologies. Take for instance the auto industry, at it's inception there were over a 100 different companies producing cars in this nation, and over the years as the technology grew , companies came and went. In short no matter what the technology, if we STOP innovation then we choose long road to decline.

Great post Navy1960 (your screen name always makes me recall Joe Bellino)

America is in a war. I'm not talking about Afghanistan or Iraq. I'm talking about a war most Americans don't even know we are in, or know that America is losing badly. We are having our heads handed to us while we argue over climate change.

Green China? You'd better believe it

A recent report by the Pew Charitable Trusts shows that China was the world’s number one investor in green energy in 2010.

With a total investment of $54.4 billion, China was well ahead of second-ranked Germany ($41.2 billion) and the US in third place with $34 billion invested, not to mention Australia with $3.3 billion and ranked 12th.


The New Chinese War for Energy

“We’re fighting our own war against terrorism. They’re fighting a war to accumulate enough resources so that they can live through the next century with a new kind of energy system,” reveals Stephen Leeb, author of Red Alert: How China’s Growing Prosperity Threatens the American Way of Life. In this episode of Radio Free Dylan, Stephen describes the ever-growing political and economic power of China, and how their wind, solar and renewable energy development is leaving other countries – especially the United States — in the dust.

“China is spending all the money they possibly can to create and better those particular industries and they’re creating a lot of jobs in the process… The two critical renewable alternative energy industries on this planet are wind and solar and both of them, China has a hammerlock,” says Stephen. “They’re in a war to acquire resources, not just for the sake of depriving the rest of the world of these resources, but to have the resources that they need to build out a new energy infrastructure.”

The United States, he says, will be left playing catch up unless we make a dramatic push for redesigning our national energy infrastructure, affecting not only how we power our country, but our financial and economic future as well.

“We spend a lot of time talking about how we can reduce debt in this country and I think that that’s a very good discussion. But at the end of the Second World War, we had government debt as a percent of GDP was greater than it is today, but what’s the difference? The difference was that at the end of the Second World War, perhaps inadvertently, we had created, in order to win that war, we had created an infrastructure that allowed the United States a generation of great economic growth,” says Stephen.

In terms of installed capacity, China’s wind power sector alone doubled every year between 2005 and 2009. According to the latest statistics from the Global Wind Energy Council (GWEC), China added 18.9 GW of new wind power capacity in 2010, thus overtaking the US with the most installed wind power capacity in the world.

China’s parliament, the National People’s Congress (NPC), recently considered a 'New Energy Industry Development Strategy’ which is to be adopted as a major policy document by the State Council (some changes are expected due to the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster).

According to this proposed development strategy, during 2011-2020, China will invest about $800 billion in seven green energy areas, namely, wind, solar, nuclear, bio-energy, hydro, coal cleaning and smart power grid.

The name does tend to age me somewhat, but then again what would the world be without a few of us old codgers out there to make the young folks lives miserable ( my attempt at humor) before everyone takes that too seriously. As for my thread here, I tend to think that our nation still has more than enough brain power and will to choose it's own destiny and once again take its place at the top of the economic energy production stand. It's my humble opinion that for too long now, during both Republican and Democrat Administration we have settled into this comfort zone of dependence on foreign sources of energy and allowed ourselves to fall into a 2nd class status when it comes to being a major player in the world. I fail to understand the need to use technologies as political "fodder" be it wind,solar, gas, oil, nuclear, when the production of those technologies makes this nation stronger, employs Americans, makes this nation more financially secure and most of all keeps money to buy weapons out of the hands of nations that dont like us very much. So what if an energy company fails, that is all part of how technology advances for the benefit of everyone in a free market. Take for example the PC, does anyone here still run out an buy an Osborne computer or any number of the 100's of companies that have come and gone during the evolution of the PC? The bottom line here we as a nation need to understand that sometimes seeking cheap offshore goods for that sake of saving a dollar, doesn't always benefit this nation and doesn't always save the dollar you think it does and when it comes to energy, if we want jobs, and security as welll as long lasting financial security for this nation then we begin by advancing EVERY form of domestic energy that benefits Americans and let those that survive do so and those that fail do the same.

 

[Bfgrn]

While the debate rages on both sides about such things as wind,solar, nuclear, nat-gas, oil, and a whole host of other energy sources, it leads me to ask a question. At what point does this debate become harmful to this nation? let me explain, by picking and choosing what technology is good and what is bad are we not then putting our feet at the throat of American innovation and as a by-product of that American Jobs ?

Take the Chevy Volt for instance, while not everyone's cup of tea, and perhaps a little pricey amongst other things, I'm frankly stunned that Americans especially in todays economy and todays global atmosphere that some would be so against this car just on the off chance it is associated with a political figure they dont happen to like.

The same is true for domestic oil and gas production and solar, and wind, if we as a nation intend to stay at or near the top then we have to have the energy sources to do so. To produce, explore, and make the products needed for this here in this nation can serve only one purpose, it makes this nation stronger and less dependant on nations that do not have our best interests at heart.

While it's true that some of these new technologies might take time and even some might fail before it becomes a part of our daily lives , that is the cost we pay to take that path and realize the benefits of those technologies. Take for instance the auto industry, at it's inception there were over a 100 different companies producing cars in this nation, and over the years as the technology grew , companies came and went. In short no matter what the technology, if we STOP innovation then we choose long road to decline.

Great post Navy1960 (your screen name always makes me recall Joe Bellino)

America is in a war. I'm not talking about Afghanistan or Iraq. I'm talking about a war most Americans don't even know we are in, or know that America is losing badly. We are having our heads handed to us while we argue over climate change.

Green China? You'd better believe it

A recent report by the Pew Charitable Trusts shows that China was the world’s number one investor in green energy in 2010.

With a total investment of $54.4 billion, China was well ahead of second-ranked Germany ($41.2 billion) and the US in third place with $34 billion invested, not to mention Australia with $3.3 billion and ranked 12th.


The New Chinese War for Energy

“We’re fighting our own war against terrorism. They’re fighting a war to accumulate enough resources so that they can live through the next century with a new kind of energy system,” reveals Stephen Leeb, author of Red Alert: How China’s Growing Prosperity Threatens the American Way of Life. In this episode of Radio Free Dylan, Stephen describes the ever-growing political and economic power of China, and how their wind, solar and renewable energy development is leaving other countries – especially the United States — in the dust.

“China is spending all the money they possibly can to create and better those particular industries and they’re creating a lot of jobs in the process… The two critical renewable alternative energy industries on this planet are wind and solar and both of them, China has a hammerlock,” says Stephen. “They’re in a war to acquire resources, not just for the sake of depriving the rest of the world of these resources, but to have the resources that they need to build out a new energy infrastructure.”

The United States, he says, will be left playing catch up unless we make a dramatic push for redesigning our national energy infrastructure, affecting not only how we power our country, but our financial and economic future as well.

“We spend a lot of time talking about how we can reduce debt in this country and I think that that’s a very good discussion. But at the end of the Second World War, we had government debt as a percent of GDP was greater than it is today, but what’s the difference? The difference was that at the end of the Second World War, perhaps inadvertently, we had created, in order to win that war, we had created an infrastructure that allowed the United States a generation of great economic growth,” says Stephen.

In terms of installed capacity, China’s wind power sector alone doubled every year between 2005 and 2009. According to the latest statistics from the Global Wind Energy Council (GWEC), China added 18.9 GW of new wind power capacity in 2010, thus overtaking the US with the most installed wind power capacity in the world.

China’s parliament, the National People’s Congress (NPC), recently considered a 'New Energy Industry Development Strategy’ which is to be adopted as a major policy document by the State Council (some changes are expected due to the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster).

According to this proposed development strategy, during 2011-2020, China will invest about $800 billion in seven green energy areas, namely, wind, solar, nuclear, bio-energy, hydro, coal cleaning and smart power grid.

The name does tend to age me somewhat, but then again what would the world be without a few of us old codgers out there to make the young folks lives miserable ( my attempt at humor) before everyone takes that too seriously. As for my thread here, I tend to think that our nation still has more than enough brain power and will to choose it's own destiny and once again take its place at the top of the economic energy production stand. It's my humble opinion that for too long now, during both Republican and Democrat Administration we have settled into this comfort zone of dependence on foreign sources of energy and allowed ourselves to fall into a 2nd class status when it comes to being a major player in the world. I fail to understand the need to use technologies as political "fodder" be it wind,solar, gas, oil, nuclear, when the production of those technologies makes this nation stronger, employs Americans, makes this nation more financially secure and most of all keeps money to buy weapons out of the hands of nations that dont like us very much. So what if an energy company fails, that is all part of how technology advances for the benefit of everyone in a free market. Take for example the PC, does anyone here still run out an buy an Osborne computer or any number of the 100's of companies that have come and gone during the evolution of the PC? The bottom line here we as a nation need to understand that sometimes seeking cheap offshore goods for that sake of saving a dollar, doesn't always benefit this nation and doesn't always save the dollar you think it does and when it comes to energy, if we want jobs, and security as welll as long lasting financial security for this nation then we begin by advancing EVERY form of domestic energy that benefits Americans and let those that survive do so and those that fail do the same.

I completely agree. And I'd like to add that corporations are a good thing. They encourage us to take risks. They maximize wealth. They create jobs. BUT (BIG but), corporations are not always willing to take risks that are necessary to our country and it's people. That is where government must step in and spur investment with taxpayer money.

The space program created thousands of private sector jobs, innovations and technologies that all of us take for granted today. Does anyone believe the space program would have got off the ground (pun intended) if President Kennedy hadn't throw our hats over that wall?


The President of the United States - Address at Rice University, Houston, Texas
September 12, 1962

If this capsule history of our progress teaches us anything, it is that man, in his quest for knowledge and progress, is determined and cannot be deterred. The exploration of space will go ahead, whether we join in it or not, and it is one of the great adventures of all time, and no nation which expects to be the leader of other nations can expect to stay behind in the race for space.

Those who came before us made certain that this country rode the first waves of the industrial revolutions, the first waves of modern invention, and the first wave of nuclear power, and this generation does not intend to founder in the backwash of the coming age of space. We mean to be a part of it--we mean to lead it. For the eyes of the world now look into space, to the moon and to the planets beyond, and we have vowed that we shall not see it governed by a hostile flag of conquest, but by a banner of freedom and peace. We have vowed that we shall not see space filled with weapons of mass destruction, but with instruments of knowledge and understanding.

Yet the vows of this Nation can only be fulfilled if we in this Nation are first, and, therefore, we intend to be first. In short, our leadership in science and in industry, our hopes for peace and security, our obligations to ourselves as well as others, all require us to make this effort, to solve these mysteries, to solve them for the good of all men, and to become the world's leading space-faring nation.

We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. I do not say the we should or will go unprotected against the hostile misuse of space any more than we go unprotected against the hostile use of land or sea, but I do say that space can be explored and mastered without feeding the fires of war, without repeating the mistakes that man has made in extending his writ around this globe of ours.

There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all mankind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation many never come again. But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win.

 

[Navy1960]

I have no issues to be honest with these " Big Companies", what I do have an issue with is companies who have no sense of obligation to the nation in which they call home or sense of "pride" in the nation in which they call home. While it's true a company has an obligation to it's share holders and alike, I submit to you that they also have an obligation to the nation in which they call home and the one in which they grew to be the companies they are. I didn't see GM asking the Chinese Govt. for a bailout, or the American banks running to Russia for a bailout, I did see them however asking the American taxpayers for one and my feelings are , that these companies need to realize that "Made in the USA" is not something to shy away from or deem evil, or for that matter in search of short term profits seek long term failure of the nation in which they were born. I submit that Americans want " Made in the USA" and will buy it over other products if they had the chance and energy is no different.

 

[Navy1960]

I can't help but think if the Apollo program were today, we would have never gone to the Moon because on one side you would have people saying, "it costs too much" and on the other "rockets cause the birds not to migrate" and as we did the rest of world would wave as they flew past us. As they are now.

Eer, ...that's largely the way it was!

NASA was under constant reproach and attack by environmentalist extremests, and was a big target for fiscal conservatives (most infamously for the amount of "Golden Fleece" awards it received) "a Kennedy project" that deserved diminishment and swipes wherever possible (and I was a Nixon Republican who often nodded my head at such comments, even as many of my classmates were headed toward eventual aerospace engineering jobs in the field) The political vitriole of the past may have been more private and less mainstream in the past, but I can vouch for its existence in the '50s and '60s.

Yout last sentence in your post is EXACTLY why I put that statement in there, in fact I was in the Navy at the time of the "Apollo program" so am well aware of the history of the project. The reason in which I posted my comment was to show that political vitriole today has become so toxic that the program would never have accomplised it's intended mission regardless of the talk at the time. All programs had at one time or the other, people who disagreed with them on issues of cost, performance, environmental, and even a political basis, but for the most part there was a sense of national pride regardless of the disagreements even for a Nixon Republican and a Kennedy Democrat.

 

[Bfgrn]

I have no issues to be honest with these " Big Companies", what I do have an issue with is companies who have no sense of obligation to the nation in which they call home or sense of "pride" in the nation in which they call home. While it's true a company has an obligation to it's share holders and alike, I submit to you that they also have an obligation to the nation in which they call home and the one in which they grew to be the companies they are. I didn't see GM asking the Chinese Govt. for a bailout, or the American banks running to Russia for a bailout, I did see them however asking the American taxpayers for one and my feelings are , that these companies need to realize that "Made in the USA" is not something to shy away from or deem evil, or for that matter in search of short term profits seek long term failure of the nation in which they were born. I submit that Americans want " Made in the USA" and will buy it over other products if they had the chance and energy is no different.

I do have a problem when the icon of these "Big Companies" said: "Ideally you'd have every plant you own on a barge" -- ready to move if any national government tried to impose restraints on the factories' operations, or if workers demanded better wages and working conditions."

 

[flacaltenn]

While the debate rages on both sides about such things as wind,solar, nuclear, nat-gas, oil, and a whole host of other energy sources, it leads me to ask a question. At what point does this debate become harmful to this nation? let me explain, by picking and choosing what technology is good and what is bad are we not then putting our feet at the throat of American innovation and as a by-product of that American Jobs ?

Take the Chevy Volt for instance, while not everyone's cup of tea, and perhaps a little pricey amongst other things, I'm frankly stunned that Americans especially in todays economy and todays global atmosphere that some would be so against this car just on the off chance it is associated with a political figure they dont happen to like.

The same is true for domestic oil and gas production and solar, and wind, if we as a nation intend to stay at or near the top then we have to have the energy sources to do so. To produce, explore, and make the products needed for this here in this nation can serve only one purpose, it makes this nation stronger and less dependant on nations that do not have our best interests at heart.

While it's true that some of these new technologies might take time and even some might fail before it becomes a part of our daily lives , that is the cost we pay to take that path and realize the benefits of those technologies. Take for instance the auto industry, at it's inception there were over a 100 different companies producing cars in this nation, and over the years as the technology grew , companies came and went. In short no matter what the technology, if we STOP innovation then we choose long road to decline.

Great post Navy1960 (your screen name always makes me recall Joe Bellino)

America is in a war. I'm not talking about Afghanistan or Iraq. I'm talking about a war most Americans don't even know we are in, or know that America is losing badly. We are having our heads handed to us while we argue over climate change.

Green China? You'd better believe it

A recent report by the Pew Charitable Trusts shows that China was the world’s number one investor in green energy in 2010.

With a total investment of $54.4 billion, China was well ahead of second-ranked Germany ($41.2 billion) and the US in third place with $34 billion invested, not to mention Australia with $3.3 billion and ranked 12th.


The New Chinese War for Energy

“We’re fighting our own war against terrorism. They’re fighting a war to accumulate enough resources so that they can live through the next century with a new kind of energy system,” reveals Stephen Leeb, author of Red Alert: How China’s Growing Prosperity Threatens the American Way of Life. In this episode of Radio Free Dylan, Stephen describes the ever-growing political and economic power of China, and how their wind, solar and renewable energy development is leaving other countries – especially the United States — in the dust.

“China is spending all the money they possibly can to create and better those particular industries and they’re creating a lot of jobs in the process… The two critical renewable alternative energy industries on this planet are wind and solar and both of them, China has a hammerlock,” says Stephen. “They’re in a war to acquire resources, not just for the sake of depriving the rest of the world of these resources, but to have the resources that they need to build out a new energy infrastructure.”

The United States, he says, will be left playing catch up unless we make a dramatic push for redesigning our national energy infrastructure, affecting not only how we power our country, but our financial and economic future as well.

“We spend a lot of time talking about how we can reduce debt in this country and I think that that’s a very good discussion. But at the end of the Second World War, we had government debt as a percent of GDP was greater than it is today, but what’s the difference? The difference was that at the end of the Second World War, perhaps inadvertently, we had created, in order to win that war, we had created an infrastructure that allowed the United States a generation of great economic growth,” says Stephen.

In terms of installed capacity, China’s wind power sector alone doubled every year between 2005 and 2009. According to the latest statistics from the Global Wind Energy Council (GWEC), China added 18.9 GW of new wind power capacity in 2010, thus overtaking the US with the most installed wind power capacity in the world.

China’s parliament, the National People’s Congress (NPC), recently considered a 'New Energy Industry Development Strategy’ which is to be adopted as a major policy document by the State Council (some changes are expected due to the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster).

According to this proposed development strategy, during 2011-2020, China will invest about $800 billion in seven green energy areas, namely, wind, solar, nuclear, bio-energy, hydro, coal cleaning and smart power grid.

What a hypocrit.. Just last week you posted pictures of folks in China walking thru air so thick you couldn't breathe.. But WHEN IT'S CONVIENIENT -- they are as green as a tree frog.

Do I need to go pull your comments and context? Or are you gonna re-camo yourself just to win debates?

Gee -- go sell nuclear, hydro and CLEAN COAL to your Green Weenie minions and get back to me on the results eh?

 

[Bfgrn]

While the debate rages on both sides about such things as wind,solar, nuclear, nat-gas, oil, and a whole host of other energy sources, it leads me to ask a question. At what point does this debate become harmful to this nation? let me explain, by picking and choosing what technology is good and what is bad are we not then putting our feet at the throat of American innovation and as a by-product of that American Jobs ?

Take the Chevy Volt for instance, while not everyone's cup of tea, and perhaps a little pricey amongst other things, I'm frankly stunned that Americans especially in todays economy and todays global atmosphere that some would be so against this car just on the off chance it is associated with a political figure they dont happen to like.

The same is true for domestic oil and gas production and solar, and wind, if we as a nation intend to stay at or near the top then we have to have the energy sources to do so. To produce, explore, and make the products needed for this here in this nation can serve only one purpose, it makes this nation stronger and less dependant on nations that do not have our best interests at heart.

While it's true that some of these new technologies might take time and even some might fail before it becomes a part of our daily lives , that is the cost we pay to take that path and realize the benefits of those technologies. Take for instance the auto industry, at it's inception there were over a 100 different companies producing cars in this nation, and over the years as the technology grew , companies came and went. In short no matter what the technology, if we STOP innovation then we choose long road to decline.

Great post Navy1960 (your screen name always makes me recall Joe Bellino)

America is in a war. I'm not talking about Afghanistan or Iraq. I'm talking about a war most Americans don't even know we are in, or know that America is losing badly. We are having our heads handed to us while we argue over climate change.

Green China? You'd better believe it

A recent report by the Pew Charitable Trusts shows that China was the world’s number one investor in green energy in 2010.

With a total investment of $54.4 billion, China was well ahead of second-ranked Germany ($41.2 billion) and the US in third place with $34 billion invested, not to mention Australia with $3.3 billion and ranked 12th.


The New Chinese War for Energy

“We’re fighting our own war against terrorism. They’re fighting a war to accumulate enough resources so that they can live through the next century with a new kind of energy system,” reveals Stephen Leeb, author of Red Alert: How China’s Growing Prosperity Threatens the American Way of Life. In this episode of Radio Free Dylan, Stephen describes the ever-growing political and economic power of China, and how their wind, solar and renewable energy development is leaving other countries – especially the United States — in the dust.

“China is spending all the money they possibly can to create and better those particular industries and they’re creating a lot of jobs in the process… The two critical renewable alternative energy industries on this planet are wind and solar and both of them, China has a hammerlock,” says Stephen. “They’re in a war to acquire resources, not just for the sake of depriving the rest of the world of these resources, but to have the resources that they need to build out a new energy infrastructure.”

The United States, he says, will be left playing catch up unless we make a dramatic push for redesigning our national energy infrastructure, affecting not only how we power our country, but our financial and economic future as well.

“We spend a lot of time talking about how we can reduce debt in this country and I think that that’s a very good discussion. But at the end of the Second World War, we had government debt as a percent of GDP was greater than it is today, but what’s the difference? The difference was that at the end of the Second World War, perhaps inadvertently, we had created, in order to win that war, we had created an infrastructure that allowed the United States a generation of great economic growth,” says Stephen.

In terms of installed capacity, China’s wind power sector alone doubled every year between 2005 and 2009. According to the latest statistics from the Global Wind Energy Council (GWEC), China added 18.9 GW of new wind power capacity in 2010, thus overtaking the US with the most installed wind power capacity in the world.

China’s parliament, the National People’s Congress (NPC), recently considered a 'New Energy Industry Development Strategy’ which is to be adopted as a major policy document by the State Council (some changes are expected due to the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster).

According to this proposed development strategy, during 2011-2020, China will invest about $800 billion in seven green energy areas, namely, wind, solar, nuclear, bio-energy, hydro, coal cleaning and smart power grid.

What a hypocrit.. Just last week you posted pictures of folks in China walking thru air so thick you couldn't breathe.. But WHEN IT'S CONVIENIENT -- they are as green as a tree frog.

Do I need to go pull your comments and context? Or are you gonna re-camo yourself just to win debates?

Gee -- go sell nuclear, hydro and CLEAN COAL to your Green Weenie minions and get back to me on the results eh?

Not hypocritical at all. They are two separate issues.

The environmental disaster is very real in China. BUT, the Chinese government sees economic opportunity in green energy. Will the Chinese government apply those technologies to their own industries? I hope so.

Pollution causes 470,000 premature deaths in China every year

And, what model has the current Teapublican House of Representatives adopted for America's future?

The Most Anti-Environment House In History

House Republican leaders have pushed through an astonishing 191 votes to weaken environmental protections.

"The House Republican assault on the environment has been reckless and relentless," said Rep. Waxman in a statement. "In bill after bill, for one industry after another, the House has been voting to roll back environmental laws and endanger public health. The Republican anti-environment agenda is completely out-of-touch with what the American public wants."

The House of Representatives averaged more than one anti-environmental vote for every day the House was in session in 2011, according to the report. More than one in five of the legislative roll call votes taken in 2011 – 22% – were votes to undermine environmental protections.

Click here to read the full report (PDF).

 

[flacaltenn]

The government of China does not NEED Green Energy anymore than they need Happy Meal Toys or Thigh-Masters or any other of the crap they can sell..

In fact -- any installed base of wind or solar was just a training investment so that their companies could get Obama Stimulus cash and come here to build wind farms in Texas..

Here's their REAL energy policy.. Something we substitute "hope" and "forest fairies" for..

China

In the last decade, Beijing has made nuclear power a central component in its energy strategy. China has 13 operating nuclear reactors producing nearly 2 percent of its total power output, but there are another 27 reactors under construction, 50 more planned and more than 100 proposed. With new reactors coming every year, China is aiming for a tenfold increase in its nuclear generating capacity by 2020, with rapid growth projected to continue until 2050.

That will solve the problem and leave THEIR semiconductor facilities free from California style "rotating outages" and brownouts. They are not gonna fart around with windmills and solar.. Except to load them on the same boats as the Barbie Doll Electric Cars and boxes of Richard Nixon Halloween masks..

 

[Bfgrn]

The government of China does not NEED Green Energy anymore than they need Happy Meal Toys or Thigh-Masters or any other of the crap they can sell..

In fact -- any installed base of wind or solar was just a training investment so that their companies could get Obama Stimulus cash and come here to build wind farms in Texas..

Here's their REAL energy policy.. Something we substitute "hope" and "forest fairies" for..

China

In the last decade, Beijing has made nuclear power a central component in its energy strategy. China has 13 operating nuclear reactors producing nearly 2 percent of its total power output, but there are another 27 reactors under construction, 50 more planned and more than 100 proposed. With new reactors coming every year, China is aiming for a tenfold increase in its nuclear generating capacity by 2020, with rapid growth projected to continue until 2050.

That will solve the problem and leave THEIR semiconductor facilities free from California style "rotating outages" and brownouts. They are not gonna fart around with windmills and solar.. Except to load them on the same boats as the Barbie Doll Electric Cars and boxes of Richard Nixon Halloween masks..

Let's see, should I go with your dogmatic and ignorant emotes, or should I go with the FACTS...tough call...

In terms of installed capacity, China’s wind power sector alone doubled every year between 2005 and 2009. According to the latest statistics from the Global Wind Energy Council (GWEC), China added 18.9 GW of new wind power capacity in 2010, thus overtaking the US with the most installed wind power capacity in the world.

China’s parliament, the National People’s Congress (NPC), recently considered a 'New Energy Industry Development Strategy’ which is to be adopted as a major policy document by the State Council (some changes are expected due to the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster).

According to this proposed development strategy, during 2011-2020, China will invest about $800 billion in seven green energy areas, namely, wind, solar, nuclear, bio-energy, hydro, coal cleaning and smart power grid.