An Athiest Student as she has claimed, brings a lawsuit with the help of the ACLU?

[Crackerjack]

The majority does not define rights for everyone else.

The minority also does not have the right to censor the majority simply because the majority's expression is on public land either.

The seperation of church and state is about preventing situations like what you have today in the UK and had at the time of the Founding Fathers where the Church of England was supported with taxes and back then you also, to be a member of the government, you had to be a member of the Chruch of England.

That is what seperation of church and state is about, not stopping kids from praying at high school football games.

Nobody's being censored. They're just being told to exercise their rights elsewhere.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It doesn't matter because that's not what it says, but if there were a sizable Muslim population in that community, like in Dearborn, Michigan, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it said "Praise Allah." In fact, I'd be willing to bet if you walk into a public school in Dearborn you will see Islamic displays in some form or another. Does that force anyone in the school to pray to Allah? Does this banner force this child to pray to Jehovah or take part in Christian practices, or force her to convert to a Christian religion?

Any such religious display, including Islam, if found to be in violation of the Lemon Test, or any other precedent on the matter, is un-Constitutional and will be struck down accordingly. It’s nonsense to say that Christianity is being ‘singled-out’ and other religions given a ‘free pass.’

We have moved towards this thinking that somehow we have a right to not be offended and that therefore means we can oppress the expression of the vast majority of people to secure that "right," yet there is no such doctrine in the U.S. Constitution or any state constitution. The simple, common sense thing for this child to do if this banner bothers her so much is to simply not look at it.

This has noting to do with ‘being offended,’ or pandering to the minority at the expense of the majority. The girl in the case is irrelevant, whether she was ‘offended’ or not is also irrelevant and she played no role in the judge’s decision – the only factor was case law and precedent.

Tyranny of the minority is no better than tyranny of the majority. Commons sense is all that needs to be applied here and our legal system has become practically void of it.

There is no ‘tyranny of the minority’ as the majority has in no way been adversely effected – Christians are free to practice their religion in schools, provided the provisions in the Lemon ruling are not violated.

 

[Crackerjack]

If the majority chose to repeal the First Amendment, you would be bitching and moaning about being persecuted.

There is also the issue of common sense here. The banner has been there for 49 years and suddenly now it's unconstitutional? You're right, we don't live by majority rule in this country, but we do seem to be headed towards the opposite extreme. One person in 49 years who has a bug up her ass about something shouldn't be able to force her view on the overwhelming majority who don't have an issue with this banner. It is no more fair for a minute minority to force their views on the majority than it is for the majority to engage in mob rule.

So there's a Statute of Limitations on unconstitutionality? How long is it?

 

[beagle9]

I can't understand why religious zealots would insist on pushing their religious beliefs in a public school. School children are a captive audience.

How would you react if your child came home and told you her atheist teacher had told the class there was no god?

How would you react if your child came home and told you that they had been kneeling on prayer rugs twice a day and praying to Allah and she asked if she could do it at home too?

If my child came home and wanted to pray to a false god like allah because other kids were doing it school I would pull her out of school so she won't get corrupted by evil.

There again, this is why we once had the parents (mothers mostly, who were moms that represented the American family and it's values) in America, supposedly being involved in the public schools as monitors and such, in order to keep them doing the right things for our nations children, and this was done by way of a majority view and reasoning among these parents without government controlling that view, but now in respect to the things in which you just responded to, we are forced by government to accept views and situations that are against the will of the now "silenced majority", that is still to this day a will that is found in the majority of parents views, and is still a view that which if had remained within their (the parents control,minus a few problems that needed changed), it wouldnot even be an issue or could have become an issue worth discussion these days, but since the parents no longer have a say in this nation or a voice in the nation for what their kids are going through anymore, and all due to a forced political correctness and the forced indoctronation that is advocated and protected by government now, we are all duped, because government for whom has done lost it's ability to work for the people, and is quickly becoming a dictatorship that forces all kinds of evils upon the people against their majority will anymore in this nation, is forcing changes upon this nation that go against the peoples (silenced by the government) majority will, and this whether we all like it or not.

Now we see the devils coming boldly out to play amongst us, because they have the protection of our government to do so against our American majority will.

 

[beagle9]

How have this girl's rights been violated?

"Our heavenly father"

If the banner had started "Praise Allah" would it be acceptable?

It doesn't matter because that's not what it says, but if there were a sizable Muslim population in that community, like in Dearborn, Michigan, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it said "Praise Allah." In fact, I'd be willing to bet if you walk into a public school in Dearborn you will see Islamic displays in some form or another. Does that force anyone in the school to pray to Allah? Does this banner force this child to pray to Jehovah or take part in Christian practices, or force her to convert to a Christian religion?

We have moved towards this thinking that somehow we have a right to not be offended and that therefore means we can suppress the expression of the vast majority of people to secure that "right," yet there is no such doctrine in the U.S. Constitution or any state constitution. The simple, common sense thing for this child to do if this banner bothers her so much is to simply not look at it.

Tyranny of the minority is no better than tyranny of the majority. Common sense is all that needs to be applied here and our legal system has become practically void of it.

EXACTLY my friend.....

 

[mudwhistle]

You are new

It would help you make your case if you actually posted a link to what you are ranting about. That way we can actually know what you are talking about

It was in the news Thursday.....course you probably don't watch what I watch.

Best way to keep liberals towing the line is censor their news.

 

[mudwhistle]

God bless the ACLU

Quite the opposite, God doesn't want anything to do with the aclu. They are about as ungodly as anyone.

The ACLU has been taken over by enemies of the United States, plain and simple.

It's why Abraham Lincoln suspended Habius Corpus during the Civil War.

The Justice Department has active ACLU members running it.

 

[beagle9]

The court relied on a 2005 case in which the Supreme Court called for particular care in separating church and state in public schools. In that case, the high court ruled that a monument displaying the Ten Commandments was acceptable on the grounds of the Texas State Capitol. But the court added that the same monument on the grounds of a public school would be impermissible, "given the impressionability of the young." The judge followed Supreme Court precedent, this is a non-issue.

Your response I am keying on here is - "But the court added that the same monument on the grounds of a public school would be impermissible, "given the impressionability of the young", but the allowance of the Ten Commandments on the state house grounds was exceptable.


Ahh, so now we are getting down to what the feds want in this nation, and that is to be the soul supplier of impressionable influence over our young anymore, and this as so to mold them and re-train them into their way of thinking, that now goes against what the parents had been teaching them for years, but why I ask ? Why is it now in the feds interest to do this in America against the majorities will ? Why has their been an attack on American values and American culture from the fed level for so many years now, where as we are seeing the results of those attacks daily, but are defenseless to do anything about them anymore, and this in order to retain our history and our cultures in America against a taken over fed that sides with the devil now in so many ways?

I say that the feds have been infiltrated by devilish characters in a majority when it comes to the fed world only, and so their goal is to use that majority and that power taken over by that majority within, to go against an even bigger majority that which is the citizenry of the whole united states. They would be the only ones who could sway the public into their way of thinking through or by force, and this is exactly what they have been doing now for the last 40 or 50 years, and it is getting worse and worse everyday. This is just one more example of that attack, and the results there afterwards, in which tells this nation exactly what is going on in all of this mess that we (in a majority), are experiencing now in America. You know what this means right? It means that we are fast becoming a dictatorship that is run by a minority that which exist in our government, against the majority who are outside the government, and do reside as citizens within this nation still as a majority (but have been silenced by the fed in court decisions and rulings), where as the feds are the leaders of what is becoming faster and faster a corrupt dictatorship now over the people in this nation. These cases and their rulings, are chipping away at the culture & fabric of America, and is since creating a new culture that is suitable to the feds and their control over us, where as the old ways wouldnot work for them anymore.

The majority voted for "the feds." Why can't the majority vote them out?

Oops.

It's coming, as we see the awakening of the silnced majority in this nation now, who have realized the game that has been played against them. We are at a tipping point right now, and with every action that is taken against us, and with every idiotic rulling that has come down against us, it is time for the citizens of this nation to overwhelm the voting booths once again, even if they have to make sure that they take time out of their busy work schedules to do so, it is that important. We see and hear the grumblings of the awakening, and those voices will only get louder and louder now. We have been asleep and repressed in this nation for way to long now, and it is time to not take it anymore, so awaken America, for your time has come once again to do the right thing, and to seperate yourselves from a corruption that has been waged against you for far to long now within your own nation..

 

[Crackerjack]

Your response I am keying on here is - "But the court added that the same monument on the grounds of a public school would be impermissible, "given the impressionability of the young", but the allowance of the Ten Commandments on the state house grounds was exceptable.


Ahh, so now we are getting down to what the feds want in this nation, and that is to be the soul supplier of impressionable influence over our young anymore, and this as so to mold them and re-train them into their way of thinking, that now goes against what the parents had been teaching them for years, but why I ask ? Why is it now in the feds interest to do this in America against the majorities will ? Why has their been an attack on American values and American culture from the fed level for so many years now, where as we are seeing the results of those attacks daily, but are defenseless to do anything about them anymore, and this in order to retain our history and our cultures in America against a taken over fed that sides with the devil now in so many ways?

I say that the feds have been infiltrated by devilish characters in a majority when it comes to the fed world only, and so their goal is to use that majority and that power taken over by that majority within, to go against an even bigger majority that which is the citizenry of the whole united states. They would be the only ones who could sway the public into their way of thinking through or by force, and this is exactly what they have been doing now for the last 40 or 50 years, and it is getting worse and worse everyday. This is just one more example of that attack, and the results there afterwards, in which tells this nation exactly what is going on in all of this mess that we (in a majority), are experiencing now in America. You know what this means right? It means that we are fast becoming a dictatorship that is run by a minority that which exist in our government, against the majority who are outside the government, and do reside as citizens within this nation still as a majority (but have been silenced by the fed in court decisions and rulings), where as the feds are the leaders of what is becoming faster and faster a corrupt dictatorship now over the people in this nation. These cases and their rulings, are chipping away at the culture & fabric of America, and is since creating a new culture that is suitable to the feds and their control over us, where as the old ways wouldnot work for them anymore.

The majority voted for "the feds." Why can't the majority vote them out?

Oops.

It's coming, as we see the awakening of the silnced majority in this nation now, who have realized the game that has been played against them. We are at a tipping point right now, and with every action that is taken against us, and with every idiotic rulling that has come down against us, it is time for the citizens of this nation to overwhelm the voting booths once again, even if they have to make sure that they take time out of their busy work schedules to do so, it is that important. We see and hear the grumblings of the awakening, and those voices will only get louder and louder now. We have been asleep and repressed in this nation for way to long now, and it is time to not take it anymore, so awaken America, for your time has come once again to do the right thing, and to seperate yourselves from a corruption that has been waged against you for far to long now within your own nation..

And if that doesn't happen, you'll concede the point that you're not in the majority, right?

 

[Crackerjack]

You are new

It would help you make your case if you actually posted a link to what you are ranting about. That way we can actually know what you are talking about

It was in the news Thursday.....course you probably don't watch what I watch.

Best way to keep liberals towing the line is censor their news.

TNA was on that night, so I missed it. Mea culpa.

 

[rightwinger]

You are new

It would help you make your case if you actually posted a link to what you are ranting about. That way we can actually know what you are talking about

It was in the news Thursday.....course you probably don't watch what I watch.

Best way to keep liberals towing the line is censor their news.

Yes, an ACLU suit against a religious banner is top story on all the networks

But, then again in the rightwing everyone hates Christians world, I imagine it got top billing.

 

[rightwinger]

God bless the ACLU

Quite the opposite, God doesn't want anything to do with the aclu. They are about as ungodly as anyone.

The ACLU has been taken over by enemies of the United States, plain and simple.

It's why Abraham Lincoln suspended Habius Corpus during the Civil War.

The Justice Department has active ACLU members running it.

Yes, defending our Constitution is so offensive to Conservatives

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The ACLU is a private entity representing private citizens; both avail themselves of the Federal court system as is their right per the Constitution and law.

Their actions are reactive, not proactive – if the right wants the ACLU to ‘go away,’ conservatives need only stop violating the Constitution.

The girl in this case is not a ‘villain,’ neither is the ACLU. It’s incumbent upon the school board and state to know the law and act accordingly. It should come as no surprise that the banner was determined in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

It was in the news Thursday…

And?

…course you probably don't watch what I watch.

No, he prefers to be informed.

 

[mudwhistle]

You are new

It would help you make your case if you actually posted a link to what you are ranting about. That way we can actually know what you are talking about

It was in the news Thursday.....course you probably don't watch what I watch.

Best way to keep liberals towing the line is censor their news.

Yes, an ACLU suit against a religious banner is top story on all the networks

But, then again in the rightwing everyone hates Christians world, I imagine it got top billing.

I suggest that all the folks that hate any mentioning of God just give me all of your money that has "In God We Trust" on it and you can go on hating all you want.

I feel it's a fair trade.

 

[rightwinger]

It was in the news Thursday.....course you probably don't watch what I watch.

Best way to keep liberals towing the line is censor their news.

Yes, an ACLU suit against a religious banner is top story on all the networks

But, then again in the rightwing everyone hates Christians world, I imagine it got top billing.

I suggest that all the folks that hate any mentioning of God just give me all of your money that has "In God We Trust" on it and you can go on hating all you want.

I feel it's a fair trade.

It wasn't us who forced that dumb motto on our currency......it was the religious nuts

 

[beagle9]

I can't understand why religious zealots would insist on pushing their religious beliefs in a public school. School children are a captive audience.

How would you react if your child came home and told you her atheist teacher had told the class there was no god?

How would you react if your child came home and told you that they had been kneeling on prayer rugs twice a day and praying to Allah and she asked if she could do it at home too?

i wonder how they'd feel if their kid's teacher explained that the messiah hasn't come yet and that jesus didn't fulfill the prophesies.

somehow, i suspect they wouldn't be so thrilled about religion mixing with education at that point.

i say, as always, if you can't spend 8 hours a day without praying, you should be in a parochial school. it's really that simple.

Also, there is nothing that says a child can't pray on his own. It is forced prayer or open religious displays that are not allowed

How is it that an open religious display when found in the public square, is somehow forcing something upon an individual against their free will to choose freely in America either to view it or not view it ? Why is it that when we see all kinds of other displays of art in this nation ( and I mean some weird and disgusting art along with some other terrible stuff to be considered as even being art or the expression there of, (all depending upon where you are in America), somehow being protected as art and expression in those instances, but not in another?

Now we have seen in many situations where art and it's message of expression as agreed upon by a minority, (yet is opposed by the majority upon many occasions), still remains in the public square for all to see, but when we display a religious banner in the public square as agreed upon by a majority, but then it is somehow offensive for just "one" who is in a minority as being only one, it is then ordered by whom to be taken down against the majorities will?

This is because of just "one" being offended or is that really what is going on when stuff like this happens ? Otherwise is the "one" who is (IMHO) being used by a silent minority in such a case truly offended, or is it that a powerful minority group is behind the scenes using the "one", in order to just break the nation down one more step by way of this "one" supposed authentic complaintant, who is gullable enough to work for this powerful hungry minority, without even realizing what is going on actually against the nation as a whole in all of this stuff when it now happens ?

 

[beagle9]

Yes, an ACLU suit against a religious banner is top story on all the networks

But, then again in the rightwing everyone hates Christians world, I imagine it got top billing.

I suggest that all the folks that hate any mentioning of God just give me all of your money that has "In God We Trust" on it and you can go on hating all you want.

I feel it's a fair trade.

It wasn't us who forced that dumb motto on our currency......it was the religious nuts

Was it forced or agreed upon by a majority at that time? Becareful how you use the word forced, because it is always a two edged sword ya know.

 

[rightwinger]

i wonder how they'd feel if their kid's teacher explained that the messiah hasn't come yet and that jesus didn't fulfill the prophesies.

somehow, i suspect they wouldn't be so thrilled about religion mixing with education at that point.

i say, as always, if you can't spend 8 hours a day without praying, you should be in a parochial school. it's really that simple.

Also, there is nothing that says a child can't pray on his own. It is forced prayer or open religious displays that are not allowed

How is it that an open religious display when found in the public square, is somehow forcing something upon an individual against their free will to choose freely in America either to view it or not view it ? Why is it that when we see all kinds of other displays of art in this nation ( and I mean some weird and disgusting art along with some other terrible stuff to be considered as even being art or the expression there of, (all depending upon where you are in America), somehow being protected as art and expression in those instances, but not in another?

Now we have seen in many situations where art and it's message of expression as agreed upon by a minority, (yet is opposed by the majority upon many occasions), still remains in the public square for all to see, but when we display a religious banner in the public square as agreed upon by a majority, but then it is somehow offensive for just "one" who is in a minority as being only one, it is then ordered by whom to be taken down against the majorities will?

This is because of just "one" being offended or is that really what is going on when stuff like this happens ? Otherwise is the "one" who is (IMHO) being used by a silent minority in such a case truly offended, or is it that a powerful minority group is behind the scenes using the "one", in order to just break the nation down one more step by way of this "one" supposed authentic complaintant, who is gullable enough to work for this powerful hungry minority, without even realizing what is going on actually against the nation as a whole in all of this stuff when it now happens ?

I believe the standard is that if you display one, you have to display all. Since most communities will not tolerate religious displays from those heathen religions they choose to display none

 

[mudwhistle]

Also, there is nothing that says a child can't pray on his own. It is forced prayer or open religious displays that are not allowed

How is it that an open religious display when found in the public square, is somehow forcing something upon an individual against their free will to choose freely in America either to view it or not view it ? Why is it that when we see all kinds of other displays of art in this nation ( and I mean some weird and disgusting art along with some other terrible stuff to be considered as even being art or the expression there of, (all depending upon where you are in America), somehow being protected as art and expression in those instances, but not in another?

Now we have seen in many situations where art and it's message of expression as agreed upon by a minority, (yet is opposed by the majority upon many occasions), still remains in the public square for all to see, but when we display a religious banner in the public square as agreed upon by a majority, but then it is somehow offensive for just "one" who is in a minority as being only one, it is then ordered by whom to be taken down against the majorities will?

This is because of just "one" being offended or is that really what is going on when stuff like this happens ? Otherwise is the "one" who is (IMHO) being used by a silent minority in such a case truly offended, or is it that a powerful minority group is behind the scenes using the "one", in order to just break the nation down one more step by way of this "one" supposed authentic complaintant, who is gullable enough to work for this powerful hungry minority, without even realizing what is going on actually against the nation as a whole in all of this stuff when it now happens ?

I believe the standard is that if you display one, you have to display all. Since most communities will not tolerate religious displays from those heathen religions they choose to display none

I think you're being ridiculous. You're simply trying to force your beliefs on others.

 

[beagle9]

Also, there is nothing that says a child can't pray on his own. It is forced prayer or open religious displays that are not allowed

How is it that an open religious display when found in the public square, is somehow forcing something upon an individual against their free will to choose freely in America either to view it or not view it ? Why is it that when we see all kinds of other displays of art in this nation ( and I mean some weird and disgusting art along with some other terrible stuff to be considered as even being art or the expression there of, (all depending upon where you are in America), somehow being protected as art and expression in those instances, but not in another?

Now we have seen in many situations where art and it's message of expression as agreed upon by a minority, (yet is opposed by the majority upon many occasions), still remains in the public square for all to see, but when we display a religious banner in the public square as agreed upon by a majority, but then it is somehow offensive for just "one" who is in a minority as being only one, it is then ordered by whom to be taken down against the majorities will?

This is because of just "one" being offended or is that really what is going on when stuff like this happens ? Otherwise is the "one" who is (IMHO) being used by a silent minority in such a case truly offended, or is it that a powerful minority group is behind the scenes using the "one", in order to just break the nation down one more step by way of this "one" supposed authentic complaintant, who is gullable enough to work for this powerful hungry minority, without even realizing what is going on actually against the nation as a whole in all of this stuff when it now happens ?

I believe the standard is that if you display one, you have to display all. Since most communities will not tolerate religious displays from those heathen religions they choose to display none

It may be that they (the Christians) should go for it (allow it all), having next the strength in thier belief that they would ultimately prevail in a forced vote afterwards, where as due to all the complaints that would come from allowing it all, a vote would then be needed to show where the true majority is at upon such issues, but who would surpress that vote, especially once this bad was being found in a direct competition on that wall with the good? I know who would, and that is exactly why they like things going just the way that they are so cleverly, in which is working just fine in the ways that things are going right now in America.

The Christians need to stand firm on their faith, and maybe allow or say "OK mr.government", lets allow this anything goes for a while mentality to take place finally in America, so that when the people truly identify themselves once again as a majority in this nation who won't tolerate such idiotic non-sense anymore, and they do rebell against such non-sense as to be openly allowed against their families, their children etc. then the blowback will finally come upon the government by the citizens, who will have to take heed of the peoples majority will and voice once more in America, where as the government at that point would have to quit serving the special interest of groups and their wanting to subvert the will of the majority as they have been doing for so long, and this by the usage of a corrupt governement just like it still is now.

Rise up America as Americans, and quit allowing your nation to be torn into shreds by what you have been seeing and experiencing for the last 30 or 40 years like this, where it is that you have been surpressed and have no longer had a say in. It's time people, infact is past time.. Get to the voting booth, and then expect results afterwards.