An American Independence History Lesson From Dante

[Dante]

Some of you think you know much about the American Colonists, and this from your very selective readings and limited understandings of American Colonial History.

So here is a tidbit.

note: Bourne (Cape Cod), Lexington, Winthrop, and Stoughton, are Cities/Towns in Massachusetts, and Dorchester and Charlestown are neighborhoods in Boston.

Op-Ed Contributor
America’s Revolution: The Prequel
By ADRIAN TINNISWOOD
Published: July 2, 2010
Bath, England

PICTURE the scene: Out of the dawn mist, a fleet of longboats glides across the water, packed full of musket-wielding patriots and weather-beaten Massachusetts militiamen. Standing in the prow of the lead boat, like Washington crossing the Delaware, is a man with long flowing hair and a blood-red banner emblazoned with two words: Vincat veritas. Truth Conquers.

It is a fact rarely discussed on either side of the Atlantic that American colonists played a crucial role in the English Civil War, the bitter struggle between King Charles I and Parliament that tore England apart in the 1640s. The English Revolution — and that is just what it was — can be interpreted in all kinds of ways...

It was all those things. But it was also a battle against the arbitrary tyranny of the crown that prefigured America’s own struggle for independence...hundreds of American colonists cared enough about that struggle to sail back across the vast Atlantic...not in the frightening, alien landscape of Massachusetts but in the familiar fields and townships of England.

 

[JW Frogen]

In London there is a statue of Cromwell in front of Parliament staring down a bronze head of Charles I on Westminster Abby.

I laughed every time I walked in between them.

There is also a plaque on Gloucester Place that states that Benedict Arnold died at that location, a “great American patriot.”

God dam history if fun!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JW Frogen]

The British really, really, really get irony.

It is there meat and drink, after great beer and bad food.

 

[Dante]

In London there is a statue of Cromwell in front of Parliament staring down a bronze head of Charles I on Westminster Abby.

I laughed every time I walked in between them.

There is also a plaque on Gloucester Place that states that Benedict Arnold died at that location, a “great American patriot.”

God dam history if fun!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arnold was considered one of if not the first, hero of the Revolution. HE was a Patriot who was screwed over by the armchair warriors and other misfits. He ended up betraying his cause after his cause betrayed him.

 

[JW Frogen]

It is true he was a brilliant general, a greater strategist than Washington, certainly better than the idiot Gates he had to serve under, and that genius was not recognized and so he turned.

He could not understand the revolution was not about his military genius, it was bigger than him.

If he did recognize this fact could have fought with the Force anyway and I bet he would have latter been recognized, because war is the hot house of merit.

But he turned to the Dark Side.

He was the ***** Vader of the American Revolution.

And he never even got a "Luke I am your father" moment.

 

[Dante]

It is true he was a brilliant general, a greater strategist than Washington, certainly better than the idiot Gates he had to serve under, and that genius was not recognized and so he turned.

He could not understand the revolution was not about his military genius, it was bigger than him.

If he did recognize this fact could have fought with the Force anyway and I bet he would have latter been recognized, because war is the hot house of merit.

But he turned to the Dark Side.

He was the ***** Vader of the American Revolution.

And he never even got a "Luke I am your father" moment.

It had to do with petty politics and money. Arnold, like many of the other high ranking officers, put up his own fortune. Congressmen who disliked him screwed him out of compensation and more. It's a very long story. Arnold, was a great American, until America shit on him.

 

[Dante]

Now, is it Vincat veritas or Vincit veritas?

Some of you think you know much about the American Colonists, and this from your very selective readings and limited understandings of American Colonial History.

So here is a tidbit.

note: Bourne (Cape Cod), Lexington, Winthrop, and Stoughton, are Cities/Towns in Massachusetts, and Dorchester and Charlestown are neighborhoods in Boston.

Op-Ed Contributor
America’s Revolution: The Prequel
By ADRIAN TINNISWOOD
Published: July 2, 2010
Bath, England

PICTURE the scene: Out of the dawn mist, a fleet of longboats glides across the water, packed full of musket-wielding patriots and weather-beaten Massachusetts militiamen. Standing in the prow of the lead boat, like Washington crossing the Delaware, is a man with long flowing hair and a blood-red banner emblazoned with two words: Vincat veritas. Truth Conquers.

It is a fact rarely discussed on either side of the Atlantic that American colonists played a crucial role in the English Civil War, the bitter struggle between King Charles I and Parliament that tore England apart in the 1640s. The English Revolution — and that is just what it was — can be interpreted in all kinds of ways...

It was all those things. But it was also a battle against the arbitrary tyranny of the crown that prefigured America’s own struggle for independence...hundreds of American colonists cared enough about that struggle to sail back across the vast Atlantic...not in the frightening, alien landscape of Massachusetts but in the familiar fields and townships of England.

 

[Woyzeck]

It's interesting, but there's no list of sources he used, or to further information that I can look through myself.

 

[Dante]

It's interesting, but there's no list of sources he used, or to further information that I can look through myself.

really?

Thomas Rainsborough - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1643 Thomas Rainsborow was in command of the ship 'Swallow', and took a royalist ship that was carrying reinforcements to the King. Then as captain of the ship 'Lion' he landed 100 (possibly 180) of his crew to help Lord Fairfax's defense of Hull, and while himself leading a column of 500 musketeers, was captured in the great sally which terminated the siege (Oct. 11th, 1643). In his account of the fight Lord Fairfax described Rainsborow as a Colonel, which he was continually described as, with his later service as a colonel being all on land.

Colonel Thomas Rainsborow raised a regiment of foot for Parliament as part of the Army of the Eastern Association (Manchester's Army). Three of his original officers, Lt.-Colonel Israel Stoughton, Major Nehemiah Bourne, and Captain John Leverett, were all citizens of Massachusetts, and many of the men which served in these officers' companies were also from the Massachusetts Bay Colony (approx. 80-150). In fact, Rainsborow's regiment was the only one to have such a high proportion of men from the colonies of the new world who returned to England to fight in the Civil War. The reason for this was no doubt due to his two sisters being married to the Governor of Massachusetts and his son.

Rainsborow's regiment fought as part of Manchester's Army in all of its engagements, although it was not at the Battle of Marston Moor, but instead took Crowland in December 1644.

the Google cache The English Civil War Society of America Home Page of: www.ecwsa.org/histktecolthomasrainsborowsregoffoote.html

sometimes a site may be taken down or destroyed, but the cache still has it.

 

[Woyzeck]

It's interesting, but there's no list of sources he used, or to further information that I can look through myself.

really?

Thomas Rainsborough - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1643 Thomas Rainsborow was in command of the ship 'Swallow', and took a royalist ship that was carrying reinforcements to the King. Then as captain of the ship 'Lion' he landed 100 (possibly 180) of his crew to help Lord Fairfax's defense of Hull, and while himself leading a column of 500 musketeers, was captured in the great sally which terminated the siege (Oct. 11th, 1643). In his account of the fight Lord Fairfax described Rainsborow as a Colonel, which he was continually described as, with his later service as a colonel being all on land.

Colonel Thomas Rainsborow raised a regiment of foot for Parliament as part of the Army of the Eastern Association (Manchester's Army). Three of his original officers, Lt.-Colonel Israel Stoughton, Major Nehemiah Bourne, and Captain John Leverett, were all citizens of Massachusetts, and many of the men which served in these officers' companies were also from the Massachusetts Bay Colony (approx. 80-150). In fact, Rainsborow's regiment was the only one to have such a high proportion of men from the colonies of the new world who returned to England to fight in the Civil War. The reason for this was no doubt due to his two sisters being married to the Governor of Massachusetts and his son.

Rainsborow's regiment fought as part of Manchester's Army in all of its engagements, although it was not at the Battle of Marston Moor, but instead took Crowland in December 1644.

the Google cache The English Civil War Society of America Home Page of: www.ecwsa.org/histktecolthomasrainsborowsregoffoote.html

sometimes a site may be taken down or destroyed, but the cache still has it.

Ah, gratzi, not exactly what I was looking for, but it'll do. I was hoping for the monographs and primary documents he used to his information from, but Wikipedia works for now.

 

[Dante]

It's interesting, but there's no list of sources he used, or to further information that I can look through myself.

really?

Thomas Rainsborough - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1643 Thomas Rainsborow was in command of the ship 'Swallow', and took a royalist ship that was carrying reinforcements to the King. Then as captain of the ship 'Lion' he landed 100 (possibly 180) of his crew to help Lord Fairfax's defense of Hull, and while himself leading a column of 500 musketeers, was captured in the great sally which terminated the siege (Oct. 11th, 1643). In his account of the fight Lord Fairfax described Rainsborow as a Colonel, which he was continually described as, with his later service as a colonel being all on land.

Colonel Thomas Rainsborow raised a regiment of foot for Parliament as part of the Army of the Eastern Association (Manchester's Army). Three of his original officers, Lt.-Colonel Israel Stoughton, Major Nehemiah Bourne, and Captain John Leverett, were all citizens of Massachusetts, and many of the men which served in these officers' companies were also from the Massachusetts Bay Colony (approx. 80-150). In fact, Rainsborow's regiment was the only one to have such a high proportion of men from the colonies of the new world who returned to England to fight in the Civil War. The reason for this was no doubt due to his two sisters being married to the Governor of Massachusetts and his son.

Rainsborow's regiment fought as part of Manchester's Army in all of its engagements, although it was not at the Battle of Marston Moor, but instead took Crowland in December 1644.

the Google cache The English Civil War Society of America Home Page of: www.ecwsa.org/histktecolthomasrainsborowsregoffoote.html

sometimes a site may be taken down or destroyed, but the cache still has it.

Ah, gratzi, not exactly what I was looking for, but it'll do. I was hoping for the monographs and primary documents he used to his information from, but Wikipedia works for now.

Monograph? Where are you from?

btw, the internet isn't a classroom. you'll rarely find the kind of stuff you asked for on the internet(s). Maybe on an interweb/private server.

 

[Dante]

It's interesting, but there's no list of sources he used, or to further information that I can look through myself.

a new web site for the society: The English Civil War Society

they can help you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Benedict Arnold may have been the greatest combat commander in the American Revolution: Ticonderoga, Montreal and Quebec, Oriskany, Bemis Heights and Freeman's Farm at Saratoga, and throws it away because of personal jealousy and a pretty slip of a girl named Peggy.

 

[Dante]

Benedict Arnold may have been the greatest combat commander in the American Revolution: Ticonderoga, Montreal and Quebec, Oriskany, Bemis Heights and Freeman's Farm at Saratoga, and throws it away because of personal jealousy and a pretty slip of a girl named Peggy.

Not true. Petty Jealousy? You're mad.

 

[Dante]

Benedict Arnold saved the American revolution: AmericanHeritage.com / WHY BENEDICT ARNOLD DID IT

More than a century passed before the most influential of all American naval historians gave Arnold proper credit for keeping the Revolution alive. “Save for Arnold’s flotilla,” wrote Alfred Thayer Mahan, the British would have “settled the business. The little American navy was wiped out, but never had any force, big or small, lived to better purpose.”

Angered, Arnold wrote to Washington on May 5, 1779: “If your Excellency thinks me criminal, for heaven’s sake let me be immediately tried and, if found guilty, executed.” He despaired, he said, of ever receiving justice from Congress or the Pennsylvania Council, a “set of artful, unprincipled men” who had come to power and “misrepresent the most innocent actions.” He had, he reminded Washington, “made every sacrifice of fortune and blood, and become a cripple in the service of my country.” He had “little expected to meet the ungrateful returns I have received from my countrymen.”

---

Arnold didn't betray the Revolution as much as the Revolution betrayed Arnold. A lesser man might never have survived the slanders and attacks Arnold withstood while advancing the cause of the American Revolution.

The true story of Benedict Arnold is as close to a Greek Tragedy in American history, as American history has ever seen.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Benedict Arnold may have been the greatest combat commander in the American Revolution: Ticonderoga, Montreal and Quebec, Oriskany, Bemis Heights and Freeman's Farm at Saratoga, and throws it away because of personal jealousy and a pretty slip of a girl named Peggy.

Not true. Petty Jealousy? You're mad.

Never mad, just wrong at times. Arnold, although wounded truly by the actions of the Congress, was a still ranking Major General and Military Governor of Philadelphia. Peggy Shippen captured not only his heart for herself but his loyalty for the Crown. The Shippens were Loyalists. The history is clear on these matters.

 

[editec]

Arnold's service to the revolution unquestionable was great.

He fought and was wounded for the revolution. His actions were heroic without question and yes he probably was still another of those people who save the Republic in its dark hours.

And he was passed over for advancement because of politics and it pretty obviously was unjust

Nevertheless his treason was a vile act for which he should have been hung.

Major Andre, swung for being a spy and he wasn't a even a traitor.

 

[Dante]

Arnold's service to the revolution unquestionable was great.

He fought and was wounded for the revolution. His actions were heroic without question and yes he probably was still another of those people who save the Republic in its dark hours.

And he was passed over for advancement because of politics and it pretty obviously was unjust

Nevertheless his treason was a vile act for which he should have been hung.

Major Andre, swung for being a spy and he wasn't a even a traitor.

"All revolutions devour their own children." -Ernst Rohm

---

His treason was a vile act. I just always wonder how many of his compatriots would have done differently.

 

[Dante]

Benedict Arnold may have been the greatest combat commander in the American Revolution: Ticonderoga, Montreal and Quebec, Oriskany, Bemis Heights and Freeman's Farm at Saratoga, and throws it away because of personal jealousy and a pretty slip of a girl named Peggy.

Not true. Petty Jealousy? You're mad.

Never mad, just wrong at times. Arnold, although wounded truly by the actions of the Congress, was a still ranking Major General and Military Governor of Philadelphia. Peggy Shippen captured not only his heart for herself but his loyalty for the Crown. The Shippens were Loyalists. The history is clear on these matters.

Ahh, psychobabble biographies? Motives are known? History is clear on details we would both agree on. The correlations you draw to form conclusions are where we would most likely disagree. Ben Franklin's son was a Torie, no? He did fight with his son, though. There were many rebels with loyalist friend and relatives. Guilt by association is a weak argument.

Sure, the wife most likely fed his angst, but won over a strong man like him over to the other side -- against everything he fought for, bled for, spent his fortune for? Romantic nonsense posing as historical fact. Those who draw romantic conclusions from unproven premises are speaking psychobabble.

 

[Charles_Main]

In London there is a statue of Cromwell in front of Parliament staring down a bronze head of Charles I on Westminster Abby.

I laughed every time I walked in between them.

There is also a plaque on Gloucester Place that states that Benedict Arnold died at that location, a “great American patriot.”

God dam history if fun!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arnold was considered one of if not the first, hero of the Revolution. HE was a Patriot who was screwed over by the armchair warriors and other misfits. He ended up betraying his cause after his cause betrayed him.

holy shit you just said a whole lot of shit, and I agreed with it all. LOL